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Continuing discussion
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Unionist rant!
www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/09/Scotland-Even-The-Best-Case-Scenario-Is-a-Nightmare
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 13 Sep 14 at 17:14
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I don't see much of a rant there, more an honest appraisal. Salmond's victory depends very much on the claque who don't care where their next benefit cheque comes from so long as they get it.
Too many Scots will see this as a chance to put two fingers up to London without considering the consequences of their folly. There are also many in England who would not only be glad to see the door shut behind the Scots but would volunteer to lock it after them.
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>> Too many Scots will see this as a chance to put two fingers up to
>> London without considering the consequences of their folly. There are also many in England who
>> would not only be glad to see the door shut behind the Scots but would
>> volunteer to lock it after them.
Its the constant antipathy towards the English that gets me, the constant whining that its all so unfair they are not the centre of attention.
After 50 years of it you do get the point where "STFU, PO and don't come back then" is a satisfying response.
And ban them from World Football too, their teams are not fit to be shiesse on the bottom of my boot.
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Glad the English aren't a nation of whiners and chronic victims.
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>> Glad the English aren't a nation of whiners and chronic victims
... but masochistic onanists with a superiority complex...
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>> Glad the English aren't a nation of whiners and chronic victims.
What can I say to that but "STFU, PO and don't come back then"
;)
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>> Its the constant antipathy towards the English that gets me, the constant whining that its
>> all so unfair they are not the centre of attention.
>>
>> After 50 years of it you do get the point where "STFU, PO and don't
>> come back then" is a satisfying response.
>>
My lad lives in Scotland, has done since he came out of the Navy a few years ago. He tells me that he doesn't get much of that where he lives because it's predominantly a Protestant area. As most will be aware, though, there are areas of Glasgow where it's not wise to even drive an orange car let alone wear an orange tee-shirt.
My own concern, should independence actually happen, is that Scotland, or more to the point Glasgow, will become another Belfast.
The other thing which irks me, and strikes me as particularly pointless and counter-productive, is the constant demonisation of Margaret Thatcher, and the shameless promotion of the canard that she alone was responsible for the decline of the shipbuilding and steel industries. Anyone would think that the rest of Britain did not suffer at all to listen to the sweaties.
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>> My own concern, should independence actually happen, is that Scotland, or more to the point
>> Glasgow, will become another Belfast.
Why would independence make that scenario more likely? I understand the sectarian angle in Glasgow and its cross links with the Irish question but I'm unclear why, unless Salmond/SNP are identified with one cause or other by more than a minority of bloggers etc, it should boil over post independence.
>> The other thing which irks me, and strikes me as particularly pointless and counter-productive, is
>> the constant demonisation of Margaret Thatcher, and the shameless promotion of the canard that she
>> alone was responsible for the decline of the shipbuilding and steel industries. Anyone would think
>> that the rest of Britain did not suffer at all to listen to the sweaties.
I'm not the most neutral of observers on this subject as I believe the legacy of the 1979-97 govts and in particular the years of what I'll characterise as the monetarist experiment still lie over swathes of the UK. But FWIW......
During those years, and indeed until the more emollient Major came on scene Scotland seemed to get the roughest end of the 'Thatcherite deal. I suspect she herself shared some of the views expressed here about the Scottish nation and it's 'moaning'. She also (viz the 'sermon on the mound') clearly misunderstood the differences between the Church of Scotland and Anglicanism south of the border. That was part of a wider unwillingness the different social outlook of those she addressed and Scotland in general. Scotland was also used as a testing ground for several less popular policies including bus deregulation and, supremely, the Poll Tax.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 9 Sep 14 at 14:01
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Will promised improvements lead to Scotland enjoying better social services than the rest of us? If so, for eager immigrants, it's goodbye Sangatte, hello Zeebrugge.
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Apology if someone has posted this link already, but this article in the New York Times by Paul Krugman explains why monetary union without political union would be a disaster waiting to happen for Scotland.
www.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/opinion/paul-krugman-scots-what-the-heck.html
Being in the Euro made Greece and Spain fundamentally uncompetitive; not being part of a USE turned that into serious problem and the banking crisis just guaranteed economic collapse.
You can't have one without the other. Scotland almost certainly needs its own currency if it is not to carry a terrible risk of something similar happening at some point - and whilst a Scottish "Punnd" would at least enable it to avoid running out of dosh, shift its competitiveness and avoid bankruptcy, it could well be at great cost to its overall standard of living.
In material terms I don't think I have anything to lose if Scotland goes. All the risk is on their side. Nevertheless, it is part of our country, a part I like very much, and I hope for a No vote.
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>> Will promised improvements lead to Scotland enjoying better social services than the rest of us?
>> If so, for eager immigrants, it's goodbye Sangatte, hello Zeebrugge.
The possibility is that austerity will bite and living standards will fall. If that were combined with being on the wrong end of a currency union you are also likely to have raised unemployment. Not an attractive destination for economic migrants, EU or non-EU.
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Personally I don't really care one way or the other, but a part of me hopes they vote Yes. Pub talk is that if the residents over the border vote Yes then stock markets might take a small tumble. I don't even begin to understand the machinations of that scenario, but my tiny private pension won't be affected much.
An English friend has just relocated to live in a village near Inverness and gets on ok with the locals, yet another friend who moved to a small town near Pitlochry is now returning south of the border after a grim time with the locals over a 3 year period.
I personally know someone who I would class as a 'professional Scot'. Constant whining about the Govt, taxes etc etc but makes a very healthy living in London, returning to his Speyside pile most weekends, flying with BA ex LHR to Inverness.
As an aside, would BA have to change their name?
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>> As an aside, would BA have to change their name?
And the flag logo.
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>>
>> >> As an aside, would BA have to change their name?
>>
>> And the flag logo.
London airways would seem to reflect their route network.
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So the three leaders are going to Scotland tomorrow.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29126386
That should clinch it for the Yes campaign
Enough to make even me cynical about our politicos.
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Ok, I've had enough. Please Scotland - Leave. NOW I really can't take any more of Slimy Smarmy Salmond running everyone who is not YES down, and I can't take any more of current uk political leaders pleading and crying like Uriah Heaps mangy dogs.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 9 Sep 14 at 18:38
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>> can't take any more of current uk political leaders pleading and crying like Uriah Heaps mangy dogs.
Three mainstream party leaders missing PMQs to fly to Scotland and show some cross-party solidarity on what is after all a serious issue. Dunno if it'll do more good than harm, but it should anyway before 9pm in Sauchiehall Street. It demonstrates seriousness.
I agree with the bloke on the telly, not all these masochist onanists.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 9 Sep 14 at 19:03
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One of my favourite memories of Maggie was her response after seeing a BA model aircraft with the 'new design' :-)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=78CqcbwFeBA
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 9 Sep 14 at 18:40
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>> One of my favourite memories of Maggie was her response after seeing a BA model
>> aircraft with the 'new design' :-)
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=78CqcbwFeBA
One of the many times she was right. And as always so often for the wrong reason.
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Please can anyone direct me to a website which in idiot proof parlance explains why it is better for England that Scotland says NO?
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>>Please can anyone direct me to a website which in idiot proof parlance explains why it is better for England that Scotland says NO?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29103437
One reason at least is that without the bulk of hydrocarbon income the deficit goes from around 5% GDP to about 7% GDP which is significantly harder to justify to investors' in rUK.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 9 Sep 14 at 20:41
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>> One of my favourite memories of Maggie was her response after seeing a BA model
>> aircraft with the 'new design' :-)
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=78CqcbwFeBA
>>
BA were so wrong with this in so many aspects.
The one advertisment that is seen at airports and on aircraft flying is the logo on the tail so BA put graffiti on their tails.
Left over from that era when all aircraft had the name of the graffiti on the side, "Chatham Historic Dockyard" used to be on the fuselage. So now you know what the current logo is.
All menus etc on board were replaced with the theme.
Inside BA the staff had it rammed down their throats. Screen savers, all the stationary, business cards and much more.
Quite a few years ago a well known international airline proposed a new paint job and tail logo on their aircraft. WE told them it was total rubbish.
They went ahead and painted a 747. Then they repainted it again in its original colours.
They had the sense to recognise a boo boo!.
Lygnos
Many years ago when Qantas got their 747s with a larger upper cabin they decided to call it "stretched upper deck"
Someone pointed out that SUD was not a good idea. All the launch publicity stuff went to the tip. Longreach was the replacement name.
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>> Many years ago when Qantas got their 747s with a larger upper cabin they decided
>> to call it "stretched upper deck"
>> Someone pointed out that SUD was not a good idea. All the launch publicity stuff
>> went to the tip. Longreach was the replacement name.
Longreach was brilliant given the word play thing with Oz town of same name and extended range of later 747 versions. Was it thought up by an agency or a member of staff?
The winged 'roo on Qantas is an icon in its own right, surviving through multiple versions of QF livery.
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>> As an aside, would BA have to change their name?
>>
I think Britain historically means England and Wales, ie the southern half of the island of Great Britain, which includes Scotland.
Indeed Scotland was sometimes referred to as North Britain, as in the North British Railway Commpany, based in Edinburgh.
So there is no need to drop the word Britain, only Great Britain, when used in a political rather than geographical sense. The inhabitants remain Britons.
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An earlier poster was asking about a name for the rest of us, if Scotland reneges. How about Little Britain?
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Already bagged by South Pembrokeshire
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No need to change. It won't happen.
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>> Already bagged by South Pembrokeshire
No CP. That's Little England (I think you'll find).
:o}
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>> >> Already bagged by South Pembrokeshire
>>
>> No CP. That's Little England (I think you'll find).
>>
>> :o}
>>
Yes, you are quite right. Sorry.
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"Little England Beyond Wales"!
Pembroke Castle was also the birthplace of Henry Tudor!
The TRUE local accent is VERY like broad Devonshire.
It is a glorious part of the UK and we would have liked to return there when we came back from Spain, but house prices have gone up too much for our depleted pockets,
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I notice this word is filtered....
tinyurl.com/lkx48f6
Villages on Orkney and Shetland if you need to get the inevitable 'arrow pointing at family member' picture.
Condescending self-serving stuff from UKIP?
Shurely shome mishtake? :-)
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 10 Sep 14 at 13:57
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Sounds entirely logical to me.
(I am surprised using that sentence to describe anything written by any UKIP supporter:-)
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Lygonos, without stating which way, have you decided where your vote is going yet?
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Aye - posted it yesterday (and the gaffer's)
Apparently around 20% of the population have requested a postal vote.
If nothing else it may blow Russell Brand's 'disconnect from politics' era out of the water.
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>> If nothing else it may blow Russell Brand's 'disconnect from politics' era out of the water.
What's that little squit got to do with Scotland or anything else?
Aren't you going to say whether you voted Aye or No Lygonos? I'd have expected you to be a not-too-bothered-either-way No voter. But perhaps I've misjudged you.
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>>What's that little squit got to do with Scotland or anything else?
Him personally? Nothing. I mean I expect this referendum to have a higher turn-out than any other recent election as both the 'Yes' and 'No' voters both appear quite highly charged.
It's not going to be a Police Commissioners waste of oxygen.
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>> Condescending self-serving stuff from UKIP?
>>
As is the stuff from Cameron, Clegg, Milliband & Salmond.
Shurely?
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>>As is the stuff from Cameron, Clegg, Milliband & Salmond.
Absolutely.
The interesting part of this campaign is the 'Yes' side have acquired a rather big chunk of non-SNP voters - if the result is 'No' I expect one of two things:
'Devo-max' turns out to be a crock of poo in which case Independence is ultimately an inevitability.
'Devo-max' gives Holyrood an obvious power boost in which case the non-SNP 'Yes' guys will melt away and we'll all be pals again (with the likelihood of extended Devolution in Wales/NI and probably England).
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The debate is fascinating.
Yesterday each of the campaigns trotted out a brown Scot to add weight to their causes. The Yes man was apparently of Muslim extraction, the No man wearing a colourful Sikh turban and a sort of beard, but much barmier looking than the general run of Sikh spokesmen who have a lot of gravitas.
Both had convincing Jock accents. Both as nutty as fruitcakes.
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And I loved the first minister's gathering of foreign Jocks all carrying yes notices in their own incomprehensible gibberishes, Tak! Oes! Ja! Perché no? Da! Ouais! and so on. Heh heh.
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Well, this is my take on it.
I quite like Scotland and very seriously considered moving there when I retired from London.
I think the unpleasant, ignorant, self centred people who automatically dislike England are mostly in the minority, unless they hide it well.
I don't give a flying **** which way they vote, although I think it was unwise to allow the vote in the first place, as we are a union for a reason (and bearing in mind it was a Scottish king that instigated it).
If the 'yes' mob win, there will be negatives e.g. financial market volatility and the MOD extra expense, etc, etc..yet there will be positives, e.g. much harder for a socialist government to be elected in what's left of the Union...and Scotland will have to fund its own Socialist Utopia, rather than expecting us to subsidise it.
If I were a Jock I'd be voting 'no', purely on the grounds of being better off within the union. As I'm not, they can fill their boots and good luck to them, although I think a 'yes' vote will be disastrous for them, but not my problem.
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The Bookies don't often get things wrong. "The country’s two biggest bookmakers, Ladbrokes and William Hill, are laying 7-to-4 odds against a “yes†vote—even as Britain’s political elite is in a panic over polls showing the race is neck-and-neck. A poll released Sept. 9 by survey group TNS Scotland, showed pro-independence forces with 38 percent support, just one point behind the opposition, while a YouGov survey over the weekend showed the “yes†campaign with a narrow lead."
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I am not getting this debate.
Scotland is already a separate country. They have their own laws and some nice benefits like free university education and free medicine [all I can remember now].
Even if they get independence, it is extremely unlikely that we need a visa/work permit to live in Scotland.
They will keep pound anyway (Isle of Man uses pound without being in UK or EU).
So what will make a difference to the lives of mortal souls (either Scots or English)?
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>
>> So what will make a difference to the lives of mortal souls (either Scots or
>> English)?
>>
The Scots will have to fund their own lifestyle.
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Decide their own taxes me thinks movilogo.That is why the people with a bit of money are nervous in Scotland.
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View from an exiled Scot, living happily in the south of England for the last 30+ years
There is no reason why Scotland should not eventually be able to survive and prosper as an independent country although some attitudes and outlooks would have to change.
However it would take many years to get through two main issues.
1. every problem Scotland faces is not the fault of the English and will not go away once Scotland is independent
2. every piece of "infrastructure" governmental or otherwise which is currently in place for the UK as a whole will need to be implemented separately in Scotland. Some things such as DVLA, road tax / Mot / vehicle licensing could be done on a paid service from the rUK organisation. Most others, from Defence to the DWP to border controls to tax collection to banking/insurance etc. etc. will need to be separately implemented or cloned as a mini version of the rUK systems so that the Scottish version can have its flexibility to be different now or at some point in the future. This will take huge amounts of time and money and will potentially be in some level of chaos for some time, apart from anything else the IT projects involved will be huge, complex, costly and prone to painful failure.
A lot of pain, almost certainly mainly falling on those least able to take it. If I still lived up there I would not vote for it for anything
It also distresses me a lot to see the levels of hate which this has generated.
Rant over..
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I too am an exiled Scot.
An independent Scotland would require co-operation from the UK Government for a decade or so to set up things and get routines established.
Refusing to accept your share of debt is obviously going to assist that co-operation.. not.
All the UK needs to do is say to every bank and financial institution that requires the assistance of a UK Gov't guarantee is that some % of UK staff must be employed and resident in England, NI or Wales...say 75%.
That would stuff the Scottish Financial sector - which (apart from oil) is where most of Scots wealth generation is..
If UKIP get a few MPs... I can see that happening...
Last edited by: madf on Thu 11 Sep 14 at 15:03
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I would think the IT projects needed will run into the billions of pounds. And could they be hosted in English or Northern Irish data centres? I would hazard a guess there aren't enough skilled people to implement all of this in a short timescale.
One thing I wonder is how anyone working in Scotland for a central government funded organisation will transfer to a new Scottish entity. Take the NHS. At some point I assume they will TUPE across no the 'NHS Scotland' organisation with the same terms and conditions?? I know trusts are autonomous now but there has to be some separation. DVLA, HMRC will be trickier.
Talking of moving across to Scottish organisations, ignoring timescales, will there be a big switch over on a particular day or will it be phased? I assume phased but nobody knows how this would work.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 11 Sep 14 at 15:06
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Another thought about exiled Scots etc. If Scotland is no longer part of the UK and not in the EU, won't there have to be agreements in place to allow the foreigners to live and work in the rest of the UK? You would be immigrants in some ways surely. Same goes for rest of UK people in Scotland.
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>> Another thought about exiled Scots etc. If Scotland is no longer part of the UK
>> and not in the EU, won't there have to be agreements in place to allow
>> the foreigners to live and work in the rest of the UK? You would be
>> immigrants in some ways surely. Same goes for rest of UK people in Scotland.
>>
That's pretty well common sense surely if you live and work in the same country you make or assume a one time (?) choice. Either way that's all political negotiations and decisions you swap, over the 10 years it takes for them to expire, your UK passport for either a Scottish one or a rUK one and you allow the same facility to live & work in either as was extended to the Irish for years before EU rules took over.
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Surely passports become invalid as soon as Scotland is legally no longer part of the UK/GB.
In fact don't they just become independent of Great Britain and then automatically stop being part of the UK of GB and NI?
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>> nobody knows how this would work.
>>
And the Yes campaigners have not even thought about how it would be done and are in complete denial that it is an issue IMHO, even a number of the more aware of them who work up there on large IT projects do an ostrich impression on the pain & problems.
I was based up there in a large bank for 6 months plus around the start of the year, while the debates we had were good humoured the denial was still there.
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>> Talking of moving across to Scottish organisations, ignoring timescales, will there be a big switch over on a particular day or will it be phased? I assume phased but nobody knows how this would work.
>>
I was reading that if the Jocks do get independence they are going to switch to driving on the right.
To avoid confusion and to keep accidents during the change to a minimum, the actual cross - over will be phased.
Cars who registration numbers end in an even number will switch on, say, Monday and cars with an odd number will start driving on the right on Wednesday.
Makes sense.
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On the other hand it might be a heaven-sent opportunity to decide to do away with a lot of these bureaucratic bodies as unnecessary in a small country.
May be they don't need a DVLA - just put a bit of tax on fuel. Perhaps Scots are such sensible sober people that they will maintain their cars properly without needing an MOT system.
May be local community hospitals and workhouses and self-help would suit their community spirit better than an impersonal DWP and NHS etc. May be Scottish bankers with their dour calvanist background are not prone to reckless lending so don't need financial regulation.
May be.
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>> May be they don't need a DVLA - just put a bit of tax on fuel.
What about driving licences? What about the Scottish need of a V5C equivalent? What about records of drivers, vehicles and vehicle keepers?
And I wonder what happens to all the current vehicle licence plates? Do you keep the numbering system? Can you even drive them in the rest of the UK indefinitely?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 11 Sep 14 at 15:11
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"What about driving licences?…………"
My SiL's bloke told me, in Tasmania, that Australia does not have an MoT test because "it discriminates against poor people". So that would suit Salmond's Socialist State of Scotland.
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Cliff I hope your tongue is firmly embedded in your cheek
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Will the remains of the UK decide to remove Scotland from their bucket list ?
Maybe many of the 16 year old "Yes" voters will be coming south in a few years time to find a job?
I understand the man is not happy today perhaps because all the polls are stiill in favour of Noi
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>> Maybe many of the 16 year old "Yes" voters will be coming south in a
>> few years time to find a job?
>>
Part of the problem is that many of the 16 year old "Yes" voters and others would rather stay where they are and blame the "English" or the government for the lack of "suitable" jobs within a mile of where they live than travel to Edinburgh never mind the south to find one.
But then the same is true of large parts of the north of England
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Some columnist in today's comic says that if Glasgow (where the votes are counted first) votes Yes, then Scotland will follow.
It's hard to know whether the pubs should be closed all day or kept open for 48 hours.
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Salmond was on the wireless while I was on the way home tonight, saying that the financial institutions relocating their registrations to England was only a matter of a 'brass plaque'.
That is unlikely to be the case. Whilst they can if they wish keep their oompa loompas in Scotland to open the post and answer the phones, the regulator will require the 'mind and management' of banks, insurers etc that they are regulating to be in England.
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>> Salmond was on the wireless while I was on the way home tonight, saying that
>> the financial institutions relocating their registrations to England was only a matter of a 'brass
>> plaque'.
>>
>> That is unlikely to be the case. Whilst they can if they wish keep their
>> oompa loompas in Scotland to open the post and answer the phones, the regulator will
>> require the 'mind and management' of banks, insurers etc that they are regulating to be
>> in England.
They pay taxes where the plates are. Thats his ex taxes going south of the border. Plus that leaves him with NO national bank he can control or regulate.
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Most financial services are also VAT exempt. That means that they cannot reclaim the VAT on expenses relating to the exempt activities. That's a lot of VAT, so it's not just the corporation tax.
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>>Thats his ex taxes going south of the border
They already go south of the border
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and come back in grants and special cases.
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>> They pay taxes where the plates are. Thats his ex taxes going south of the
>> border. Plus that leaves him with NO national bank he can control or regulate.
>>
Wouldn't they pay tax on the profits earned in Scotland to a Scottish Gov?
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Don't spoil a good rant, Sooty ;-)
Just wait til you see the mass UK 'exodus' that will be threatened when/if England votes to pull the UK out of the EU next parliament...
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>> Don't spoil a good rant, Sooty ;-)
>>
>> Just wait til you see the mass UK 'exodus' that will be threatened when/if England
>> votes to pull the UK out of the EU next parliament...
Indeed, but they wont be moving to Scotland.
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>> Wouldn't they pay tax on the profits earned in Scotland to a Scottish Gov?
Just like every other multinational don't pay local taxes you mean?
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 12 Sep 14 at 10:06
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mega snip quote
>> Just like every other multinational don't pay local taxes you mean?
>>
Some do dodge it yes, but all of them ? Not all will do an Amazon?
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 12 Sep 14 at 10:07
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>> Some do dodge it yes, but all of them ? Not all will do an
>> Amazon?
Naive, very Naive.
Amazon is a bad choice tho, they never make a "profit"
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Naive? me? hardly...
anyway it was a question not a statement. I take it all overseas companies in the uk pay very little or no tax?
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>> Naive? me? hardly...
>>
>> anyway it was a question not a statement. I take it all overseas companies in
>> the uk pay very little or no tax?
Correct, through various means. And getting worse.
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>> Some do dodge it yes, but all of them ? Not all will do an
>> Amazon?
Amazon IIRC sells products in the UK from a Luxembourg company. Profits are basically taxed in Luxembourg, not UK.
Companies like Starbucks have taken a different approach using transfer pricing which is difficult to police. Their UK outlets are owned by a UK company, but buys its coffee is supplied by an associate company based in a low tax EU country. The UK retailer makes a comparatively small profit, the coffee supplier a larger one.
Financial services is slightly different. It's perfectly legal to base a bank in one EU country and operate in another through "passport", several banks do this. The reason for the prospective transfer of companies from Scotland to rUK is to do with the guarantees, and central bank lending underpin needed. Who would put large deposits with an Icelandic bank now?
Once a bank for example is incorporated in UK and regulated here, two things follow, other things being equal. It pays taxes here (including in the case of exempt financial services large amounts of unrecoverable VAT on its expenses); and it is regulated here. The regulator expects that UK regulated institutions are really managed by UK-based approved persons that the regulator can eyeball and challenge, not by cardboard cut-outs directed from elsewhere.
That is my understanding - E&OE, I can't be bothered to look up chapter and verse.
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>> Financial services is slightly different.
His major problem would be not having a domiciled bank of any kind. Currently they are clearing banks issuing Scottish bank notes, with promissory value banked up by the bank of England.
If they all went elsewhere, who is going to issue his pound notes?
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>> Cliff I hope your tongue is firmly embedded in your cheek
>>
As ever :)
But seriously though, they have become accustomed to living with the kind of nanny-state infrastructure only affordable in a large country.
If they now decide to become a small country, they will seriously have to reconsider the extent to which they can afford some of these luxuries
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Fri 12 Sep 14 at 13:14
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Will an independent Scotland be a Republic, a Monarchy or what?
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If he can't get King Eck to fly, it'll be a republic I expect!
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>> Will an independent Scotland be a Republic, a Monarchy or what?
>>
A disaster.
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A tribe,
Alex will have to get used to wearing nowt but blue wode body paint.
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Never mind any of the above, what will happen to my Scottish Widows annuity?
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BBC are getting it in the neck today for their slant on the independence.
Yesterday there was a huge debate at the Hydro for schoolkids 16-18, they were given free wifi, a hashtag for twitter. A huge amount online stating that they were being asked to pretend they were No and undecided to try and make the audience look balanced. Show was broadcast last night and twitter was then full again of pupils saying the editing did not show the real feeling of pro yes and anti no that was there on the day.
George Galloway, who was there on behalf of BT has came out today and pretty much said the same that BBC should have tried to balance it up!
Then there is a clip online with the guy from John Lewis being "led" by the BBC guy what to say in the interview and then the BBC guy reading far more into it than what he actually said.
Out of interest, I wonder how many of these 16-18 year olds will have featured in any of the Polls produced so far. Talk of one poll being based on phone calls to homes where there was a landline number? Who knows, never take much notice of these polls myself.
I have yet to find anyone who has been asked by a polling company how they will vote.
Also interesting to see that there has been a record number of people registering to vote in this referendum. As I stated way back at the beginning, if nothing else, this really has captured the imagination of most Scots and many who would have blindly voted Labour or whatever down through the years are looking at this as a line in the sand, a time to make change once and for all.
An interesting week ahead.
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I hope the majority of the Scots will vote.This is there once in a lifetime change to make up their mind which way their country is going.
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>> I hope the majority of the Scots will vote.This is there once in a lifetime
>> change to make up their mind which way their country is going.
If only they would look at it that way, instead of as a chance to air their inferiority complexes (created by the SNP's constant whining and characterising of Scots as victims) and stick it to the auld enemy.
It's all very well electing the SNP (Scotland's own UKIP) on that basis, but this is a bit longer term.
Why on earth would they think that being a tiny part of the USE is going to be better than being a large region of the UK?
All very sad, and very very stupid.
It's probably best if the result is a yes now, or the whinging will go on forever.
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Ok Lets balance this out then.
>> BBC are getting it in the neck today for their slant on the independence.
>>
>> Yesterday there was a huge debate at the Hydro for schoolkids 16-18,
It was a stupid idea, The BBC knew the way the 16-18 year olds were leaning, TV debates with just one point of view are not debates and do not make good TV. And TV debates for that age group are stupid, this is the first social media referendum anywhere in the world - for that age group tv has no relevance
>> George Galloway, who was there on behalf of BT has came out today and pretty
>> much said the same that BBC should have tried to balance it up!
A George Galloway comment is not in any way balanced.
>> Then there is a clip online with the guy from John Lewis being "led" by
>> the BBC guy what to say in the interview and then the BBC guy reading
>> far more into it than what he actually said.
Thats a very opinion based interpretation of the interview as well.
>> Out of interest, I wonder how many of these 16-18 year olds will have featured
>> in any of the Polls produced so far.
!6-18 year olds should not be part of a referendum anyway.
>>Talk of one poll being based on
>> phone calls to homes where there was a landline number? Who knows, never take much
>> notice of these polls myself.
>> I have yet to find anyone who has been asked by a polling company how
>> they will vote.
Polls vary widely in the way they are conducted and targeted and one single poll is rarely accurate.
>> Also interesting to see that there has been a record number of people registering to
>> vote in this referendum. As I stated way back at the beginning, if nothing else,
>> this really has captured the imagination of most Scots and many who would have blindly
>> voted Labour or whatever down through the years are looking at this as a line
>> in the sand, a time to make change once and for all.
Again thats an interpretation that may or may not be accurate. The turnout could be high because many scots are fearful of the change.
My view has changed - Salmonds roadshow has shown an increasing antipathy towards the English that is getting worse. He has run a campaign on hate and contempt. I would now be delighted if Scotland went. Completely severed the ties in every way.
My biggest fear is that a narrow no victory means we get all this again in 10 years time. I would like the scots gone, now please.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 12 Sep 14 at 09:59
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If the vote is no which is likely then everything has to change.
No more extra goodies for the Scots. .We have enough poverty and unemployement here in Yorkshire.
I do agree if it is a close vote this will go on forever.
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>>
>> I do agree if it is a close vote this will go on forever.
>>
If he wins Salmond will say it is the will of the people and the Nos should now shut up and live with it.
If he loses then it will just have been round one and he'll be itching to have another go.
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And the prime minister needs to have a response lined up and ready straight away, 10 years time seems sort of sensible to me.
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>>!6-18 year olds should not be part of a referendum anyway.
Surely for a referendum like this, the future of the country, it could be argued that the 16-18 year olds are more entitled to vote in something that they are going to face the consequences of, rather than say aged 80+ age group who can vote knowing that the effect the vote will have on their life is a lot less?
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>> >>!6-18 year olds should not be part of a referendum anyway.
>>
>> Surely for a referendum like this, the future of the country, it could be argued
>> that the 16-18 year olds are more entitled to vote in something that they are
>> going to face the consequences of, rather than say aged 80+ age group who can
>> vote knowing that the effect the vote will have on their life is a lot
>> less?
And parents should be able to cast votes for their younger children, and pregnant women should get two.
But the rest of us, whose country is to be broken up, have no say. Yes, I am cross about that.
I'm not surprised that the BBC couldn't find any children on the 'No' side. It's pretty clear that No voters are being made to feel intimidated, and children are especially good at, and vulnerable to, that sort of thing.
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 12 Sep 14 at 10:57
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Scotland joined the Union on the back of a financial crisis in the 1700's that nearly bankrupted the country.
The Scottish banks RBS and HBOS almost did the same to the UK in 2007/8. I wonder if Scotland were independent in the last decade, would they have been in a position similar to that of Iceland or even worse?
It should be pointed out that the Scottish banks could have brought an independent Scotland to its knees.
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>> Scotland joined the Union on the back of a financial crisis in the 1700's that
>> nearly bankrupted the country.
>>
>> The Scottish banks RBS and HBOS almost did the same to the UK in 2007/8.
>> I wonder if Scotland were independent in the last decade, would they have been in
>> a position similar to that of Iceland or even worse?
>>
>> It should be pointed out that the Scottish banks could have brought an independent Scotland
>> to its knees.
They would have had to do the same as Iceland, and just default.
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>>They would have had to do the same as Iceland, and just default.
And many Scottish savers would have potentially lost their savings!
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Bah! For all the protestations of "i don't really care" or "do what they want", there's an awful layer of spittle and froth pooling on the floor in here ;-)
Seems likely it'll be a yes, but not by much. I imagine it will all culminate in a do-over anyway. Shame really, a bit of sporting competition would serve both nations well i think and since this doesn't involve kicking a ball, we'd even stand a chance!
Some of the schools here have been brilliant. I was at a charity day and it was school kids from a decent mix of backgrounds. Almost without exception the arguments were top quality. Loads of enthusiasm, logically sound and remarkable honest! If someone embellished they were quickly shot down with demands for proof. Cue much tapping of iPhones...
The yes's outweighed the no's and i strongly suspect a few of the no's were no's just for the opportunity to argue. Really encouraging all the same. Some of the kids will be too young to vote but it didn't stop them getting stuck in anyway. Awesome!
Just for contrast, 2 nights later i was in the Orb pub in Bellshill. I've seen a better formed argument over a stray piece of chicken on the floor in puppy class...
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A vote for No
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29176185
Design competition for new £1 coin opens
The winning design should display an image which symbolises Britain or "Britishness", the Treasury said.
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The thuggish and hectoring labour-left warhorse George Galloway has now appeared several times for the No campaign. His heart is sort of in the right place, here and on other issues too, so why did his appearance make me wonder whether Yes might have some virtue after all?
Perhaps it was his new accessory, a rakishly tilted big black hat of the sort worn by the leaders of South Sudan and Nigeria. Worn no doubt to conceal some of the scars inflicted a week or so back when he was bashed up in the street by a Zionist nutter (Galloway hasn't always chosen his words carefully when commenting on Middle East affairs).
I hope and trust the nutter will do some porridge for the assault, a serious one. You don't have to like Galloway to take that view. 'Order! Order!'. Much more important in society at large than in that bear pit the commons.
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George Galloway interviewed after the TV debate mentioned above:
tinyurl.com/llx9evq
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Welcome back Skoda, where have you been hiding??
The Orb Pub I guess? Oh dear, did you take a wrong turning??
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The historian Simon Schama, always interesting to hear and an emotional radical, did a decently subversive and not entirely anti-British job on Ireland last night. I started to worry about the Glasgow young being subverted by all that nationalism and heroism, until I remembered they were all safely in a huge theatre having a guided discussion on Scottish independence.
The comics are unanimously nay-saying today all over their front pages. I always worry about that sort of unanimity. One suspects it more or less instinctively. Glaswegians won't respond well to capitalists grabbing them by the scruff of the neck and kicking their bums.
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Lol some of the regulars in there are hiding, I'm just not brave enough to find out what they're hiding from!
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>> Lol some of the regulars in there are hiding, I'm just not brave enough to
>> find out what they're hiding from!
>> e
I am suffering from Independence overload.
As an exiled Scot, I hope they vote Yes and FO.
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>A tribe,
>Alex will have to get used to wearing nowt but blue wode body paint.
Ah!
Monarchy still in the Amin family I guess.
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I amused myself for 5 minutes - 5 minutes ago - and dug up the key statistics for Scotland from Scottish Government's stats:
GDP c £132B
www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/Q/pno/0
Government Expenditure: £65.2B Table E.2
www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS/GERS2014xls
Expenditure as % of GDP 49.4%
I draw my own conclusions...
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I can't make my mind up if Call Me Dave really does care or if he went up to Scotland to goad the population into a Yes vote.
If Scotland go it means his biggest challenge will come from within his own party, the UKIP'ers. Labour will be unable to challenge for government without the 41 Scottish MPs and the Liberal party will no longer be required to get him past the post.
Quite a cunning move by the Conservatives, the prospect for Labour controlled councils in England will be grim with a Conservative monopoly over Whitehall.
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 13 Sep 14 at 13:37
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>>
>> Quite a cunning move by the Conservatives, the prospect for Labour controlled councils in England
>> will be grim with a Conservative monopoly over Whitehall.
>>
On the contrary, with no subsidy required for the Scots, more money for the poorest regions left: the North of England...
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It never quite works out like that though does it.
Give the money to their supporters or to a group of people who if the Conservatives were on fire and the opposition had a glass of water would probably glass them my bet is on the money staying with the supporters.
The rUK could be looking at 50 years unchallenged Conservative governance.
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 13 Sep 14 at 16:21
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................and then wait for the screech for PR instead of FPTP.
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Independence Vote - Harleyman
