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Continuing discussion
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 9 Sep 14 at 12:51
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On the Marr show this morning Osbourne gave a definite "No" to financial union, no surprise there, but also said that in a couple of days there would be an announcement about what powers would be transferred to Holyrood in case of a No vote. A clever move or panic in Westminster?
I also think there will be a No vote. The majority of the locals are not daft enough to bite the hand that feeds them.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 7 Sep 14 at 16:01
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Well you can only get 5:2 on for a no victory with Ladbrokes. In my experience bookies are a better guide to the results than opinion polls.
I expect a substantial "no" victory. A bit of me would like to see a "yes" vote just to see how it pans out. My feeling is the Scottish economy would fall apart but I might be wrong.
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In my general area there are two houses dressed in full Yes kit (think council house Christmas decorations) and one with a small, discreet, Labour party No poster in the window. Among my regular friends, contacts, acquaintances, etc. there is only one declared Yes voter. No one that I know of has taken part in an opinion poll. I am sure there are areas that are the opposite, it is going to be a head of heart vote.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 7 Sep 14 at 20:15
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From a totally personal point of view... starting to hope the vote is a Yes. I think it would be a mistake and all that. So interested to see if an independent Scotland would be better or worse off.
I hope the cost of going it alone isn't on the rest of the UK.
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That's interesting ON and I reckon is very much based in what circles folks operate in.
The vast majority of my friends, relatives and neighbours are all Yes.
A lot of my work colleagues are Yes. Any of the schoolkids that are getting to vote that I know are all Yes.
A lot of the senior business people I speak to at work are No. Outwith an Indie vote, I think the majority of the No voters are probably Tory voters.
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I still think the information given to persuade the Yes votes is not 100% correct.
But I don't really gamble. And I am risk averse. I hope the Scots voting yes know what they are really asking for.
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O.N. Mentioned to bite the hand what feeds them.
I can imagine the Scots to be a proud race.I think they are capable of looking after their own interest.
Over the years I have seen the low investments here in the North from various governments.
No money for roadsystems which need upgrading.When the money arrives it's twenty years to late.
Bringing in the bedroom tax which has hurt a lot of people country wise.
If I was a Scot I would vote Yes.The hand what feeds them have been biting the Scots for a long time.
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>>I hope the Scots voting
>> yes know what they are really asking for.
At least half will just want to stick it to London, the Tories and the English in no particular order.
I have an (English) aunt and uncle living in Scotland who will be voting no:)
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I think the Yes Scots know exactly what they are asking for - to get away from Tory / UKIP led England.
When you look at the better together campaign and realise that they have not been able to put up a single person who would be able to sway Yes voters then you realise the huge gulf between the sides.
Scottish Yes / don't knows are not going to be swayed by
David Cameron
Nick Clegg
George Osborne
Alastair Darling
Jim Murphy
Gordon Brown
The Tories are self explanatory, Murphy is a known expenses cheat who is scared of losing his gravytrain and the fact that these Labour folk are siding with the Tories is enough for their advice to be ruled out.
In fact at times the Better Together folk have done more for the Yes side than the Yes side could!
My fear is that this search for Utopia might not exist........
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If Scotland votes yes and it doesn't work out who are they to blame? Unfortunately like a of English people the Tories, Thatcher, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown etc. are bogey men that form a a convenient excuse for their own deficiencies.
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Salmond won't care if it all falls apart, he can retire on a fat pension and leave a mess for someone else to sort out.
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>> My fear is that this search for Utopia might not exist...
Logic is completely absent on the Yes side. It's all emotion, and perhaps less love of Scotland than hate of England - not a good emotion to make decisions with.
Salmond wants to be in NATO, but doesn't want the nuclear deterrent in Scotland. He wants independence (supposedly) but is happy to be a state of the USE.
Do they really think there won't be an exodus of jobs, unless they slash corporation tax and screw their budget?
But the thing that would enrage me, if I let it, is that we should all be voting.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's Yes, and sadly Scotland will stew in its own juice.
The UK will never get immigration down when the Scots join the influx:)
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>> Logic is completely absent on the Yes side. It's all emotion, and perhaps less love
>> of Scotland than hate of England - not a good emotion to make decisions with.
My irony detector has just gone into overdrive.....
Logic is completely absent on the anti EU side. It's all emotion, and perhaps less love
of the UK than hate of 'Europe' - not a good emotion to make decisions with.
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>>Logic is completely absent on the Yes side
Ooo thanks for clearing that up then.
Letting a bunch of Eton chaps control our United destiny must be the only true path.
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>> Letting a bunch of Eton chaps control our United destiny must be the only true path.
Yes, what an outrage, posh chaps who can read and write instead of salt-of-the-earth rejects from Kirkintilloch comprehensive.
No wonder the country has no imperial past and is sliding down the lavatory.
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-Miliband and Balls
or..
-DC +/- Farage
Not looking great for the 2015-2020 UK parliament ;-)
According to wiki, Kirkintilloch High has had a couple of footballers, a novelist, and even had a classroom assistant charged with having sex with a pupil (the case was subsequently dropped).
Top place.
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>>>According to wiki, Kirkintilloch High has had a couple of footballers, a novelist, and even had a classroom assistant, charged with having sex with a pupil (the case was subsequently dropped).<<<
What, all at the same time? :) Creative or entrepreneurial thinkers these Scots.
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>> Kirkintilloch High has had a couple of footballers, a novelist, and even had a classroom assistant charged with having sex with a pupil
I did specify 'rejects' Lygonos, not names on the school's various rolls of honour.
Obviously many pupils from state schools are bright, rise high and end up in the national elite. But your post seemed to imply that the country shouldn't be run by an elite.
I'm sure you didn't mean that really, and you were joking anyway. So was I.
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>> >>Logic is completely absent on the Yes side
>>
>> Ooo thanks for clearing that up then.
>>
>> Letting a bunch of Eton chaps control our United destiny must be the only true
>> path
Hey, you scots sent us Gordon Brown. For that reason I hope you lot do leave, and when it all goes TU I hope we give you a kicking when you come crawling back.
Not that I am vindictive or anything.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 8 Sep 14 at 10:14
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>>Any of the schoolkids that are getting
>> to vote
That alone make it unconstitutional. How someone who does not have the right to vote in elections got a vote in a referendum is beyond me.
>> A lot of the senior business people I speak to at work are No. Outwith
>> an Indie vote, I think the majority of the No voters are probably Tory voters.
It could just be that the senior business people know that Salmonds sums don't add up, and that money will move south. The fact that you proclaim them to be Tories is just really what this vote is all about. There is no way that Salmond would have got a sniff of a yes vote if he had not played the anti Tory card so very heavily.
Well, if he does get power you can look forward to years of Banana Republic economics
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So now the Jocks are off I guess we need to rename the southern bit, as the UK wont exist.
So whats it to be?
And what will UKIP call themselves?
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>> That alone make it unconstitutional. How someone who does not have the right to vote
>> in elections got a vote in a referendum is beyond me.
You have a strange view of 'unconstitutional'. Per Wiki:
The Scottish Government passed legislation to reduce the voting age for the referendum from 18 to 16, as it is SNP policy to reduce the voting age for all elections in Scotland. The move was supported by Labour, the Liberal Democrats, and the Scottish Greens.
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>> The Scottish Government passed legislation to reduce the voting age for the referendum from 18
>> to 16, as it is SNP policy to reduce the voting age for all elections
>> in Scotland. The move was supported by Labour, the Liberal Democrats, and the Scottish Greens.
I refer you to the word Intention. Intent is not constitution.
In effect they said, we'll let you vote at 16 now for the right to vote at 16 later. Its a unique form of gerrymandering you have to admit.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 8 Sep 14 at 10:13
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There's a fundamental difference. A referendum has no constitutional significance, the outcome has no legal force, it's just a glorified opinion poll.
You could ask toddlers what they thought about independence if you really wanted to get the view from the grass roots.
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>> There's a fundamental difference. A referendum has no constitutional significance,
I think breaking up the UK is pretty constitutionally significant.
>>the outcome has no legal
>> force, it's just a glorified opinion poll.
So it just gets ignored then? The jocks are wasting their time voting? We didn't go into the Eu after the last referendum then?
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A Yes vote does not automatically grant independence. Independence would surely require passage of a bill in each parliament?
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>> A Yes vote does not automatically grant independence. Independence would surely require passage of a
>> bill in each parliament?
Stop wriggling, answer the question, does the Scottish referendum get ignored?
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I suspect that the now likely close run scenario wasn't in Dave'n'Gideon's planning. They saw it as a re-run of the voting reform referendum with a (reasonably) decisive no kicking the idea into the long grass for a generation or so. My former colleagues in Whitehall tell me that they were not allowed to plan for any activity that might follow a Yes vote.
Now it actually looks as though Yes could take it, albeit only in YouGov's polling, there must be a certain amount of panic. The landscape of cross border bodies is extremely complex and rarely fully understood in London. For example a competition for a President of a cross border Tribunal had to be re-run after the initial attempt specified only the English qualification for judicial office.
Dismantling and recasting all that will be a BIG job.
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>> Dismantling and recasting all that will be a BIG job.
And who pays for it? Salmond wont accept the bill.
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>>
>> Stop wriggling, answer the question, does the Scottish referendum get ignored?
>>
No, of course it doesn't, a valid expression of public opinion never gets ignored :)
You were, I think, the one who raised a quibble about constitutional propriety, and I was giving what I understand is the constitutional answer.
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>> A Yes vote does not automatically grant independence. Independence would surely require passage of a
>> bill in each parliament?
I answered this question upthread. There will be a Scotland Bill in Westminster whatever the referendum's outcome. There's already something on the stocks to deal with Devo Max and that will be introduced following a No vote.
Per my response to Zeddo I suspect there's now some very busy people working through what might happen with Yes.
Of course it's going to be a narrow result either way and I wouldn't be surprised if the London politicos prevaricate until the UK GE next year.
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There was interesting report from Quebec on the radio this morning. They have had two referendums - one in 1985 I think was a resounding No, more recently No won by a slim majority.
But since then the tide has turned. Devo-max has swung most Quebecans into the "better together" group, as they realise they can have nearly all their cake and eat it too.
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No - we'll have to put in immigration control and border guards
Yes - silly scare story, of course we won't.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-ed-miliband-raises-prospect-of-guards-along-the-border-if-scotland-votes-yes-9716639.html
As an aside I wish I could remember from day to day whether it's "yes, we want to be part of the UK" or "Yes, we don't." Luckily I don't have a vote. My English sister and family do though, living in Scotland. I haven't asked them which way they'll be voting though.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Mon 8 Sep 14 at 09:55
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>> No - we'll have to put in immigration control and border guards
>> Yes - silly scare story, of course we won't.
>>
>>
>> www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-ed-miliband-raises-prospect-of-guards-along-the-border-if-scotland-votes-yes-9716639.html
>>
Milliband is scared of losing his rock-solid guaranteed Labour MPs from Scotland .
Have you noticed how many Scots there are and have been, ministers, or in other senior positions in most UK governments?
No lack of influence there.
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Well the financial impact of the potential divorce are starting to come through.
I'm all for keeping the Union and have seen my shares devalued by about £3k because of the current polls.
My own divorce was expensive enough. It looks like this one will impact many people.
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>>
>> Milliband is scared of losing his rock-solid guaranteed Labour MPs from Scotland .
Why are the rock-solid Scottish labour MPs only at Westminster - why is there not a rock-solid labour government in Scotland?
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>> Why are the rock-solid Scottish labour MPs only at Westminster - why is there not
>> a rock-solid labour government in Scotland?
>>
Two possibilites:
(a) Scots are politically sophisticated and vote one way for Holyrood and another for Westmnster
(b) Difference of outcome between FPTP for Westminster and PR list system for Holyrood.
Most likely a melange of the two.
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>>I'm all for keeping the Union and have seen my shares devalued by about £3k because of the current polls.
Mine too but I don't want to know how much, as a more important factor is the loss on my Euro pensions. I too am for keeping the Union, if this can strengthen the pound.
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Frankly, giving children the right to vote in this referendum is deeply cynical and flawed.
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>> Frankly, giving children the right to vote in this referendum is deeply cynical and flawed.
I'm not so sure. We've a huge problem with younger people being disengaged from politics. If starting them early helps to address that then it seems to have some value. It seems to be common ground amongst the main parties in Scotland with exception of Tories.
Sixteen year olds are hardly children. If you hear them debate stuff, whether your own at home or those vox pop things that get broadcast from time to time they've got some serious understanding.
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The thing that worries me about independence is knowing that if they vote for it and IF it all goes t*ts up for them, it will be us paying the price!
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>> The thing that worries me about independence is knowing that if they vote for it
>> and IF it all goes t*ts up for them, it will be us paying the
>> price!
>>
No
If they do vote YES and it goes mammries up, it will take years..
No doubt by then Scotland will have run up sizeable debts - or cannot borrow money at reasonable rates..and has to put up taxes.
England could give ALL Scots an "Independence Tax put on VAT in Scotland -so it cannot be avoided..
Or make a levy on the bank accounts of all Scots...
I cannot see English voters being in any hurry to accept the Scots back on favourable terms to the Scots...except perhaps a reverse Barnet formula.
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" they've got some serious understanding."
Are you seriously suggesting that, when senior, experienced politicians cannot untangle the ramifications of independence, let alone the average adult punter - 16 year olds will be able to make a reasoned judgement?
The vote will be entirely a heart/head affair, and little Alex has calculated that younger people will not be voting with their heads.
Frankly, I don't care which way the vote goes - as long as the cost to England is minimal. I fear that, if the vote is 'no', then the whinging will continue and bitterness within Scotland will have been stirred.
Last edited by: Haywain on Mon 8 Sep 14 at 16:21
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>> Are you seriously suggesting that, when senior, experienced politicians cannot untangle the ramifications of independence,
>> let alone the average adult punter - 16 year olds will be able to make
>> a reasoned judgement?
The comparison is not with politcos though is it? It's with other voters.
>>
>> The vote will be entirely a heart/head affair, and little Alex has calculated that younger
>> people will not be voting with their heads.
The whole thing is, to some degree at least, heart/head. That's why I've drawn the analogy between support for Scottish independence and UKIP.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 8 Sep 14 at 17:16
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>> The whole thing is, to some degree at least, heart/head. That's why I've drawn the
>> analogy between support for Scottish independence and UKIP.
>>
Since you mention it again...
Your irony detector must have malfunctioned to make that comparison. An independent Jockland, as I understand it, will have a significantly bigger fiscal deficit than its current share of the UK's.
UK would save its annual net contribution by leaving the EU (and avoid being sucked in to the USE/Euro which will make matters even worse) so it's a different case.
Sturgeon has been on the box today saying there will be no cuts following independence. Desperate lies.
Emotion has overcome all reason. An independent Scottish government will be desperately short of money, so if your cash is in a Scottish-based bank I'd think about where you might transfer it to. Remember Cyprus.
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"……. if your cash is in a Scottish-based bank………"
Some banks appear to be hybrids - do you have a link which clearly identifies which banks can be defined as 'Scottish-based'? Mrs H will not be best pleased if she doesn't get her new kitchen!
Thanks.
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>> "……. if your cash is in a Scottish-based bank………"
>>
>> Some banks appear to be hybrids - do you have a link which clearly identifies
>> which banks can be defined as 'Scottish-based'? Mrs H will not be best pleased if
>> she doesn't get her new kitchen!
>>
>> Thanks.
There are no "Scottish" banks. There are three with HQs in Scotland, but no longer "Scottish" Two in part owned by the UK tax payer since the crash, one owned abroad.
All three have indicated they will move HQ South in the event of a yes vote, because they need the BoE (note the Bank of ENGLAND) to act as lender of last resort (Guarantor in effect) to enable them to obtain cheap money. All the more important since the prospective gov of Scotland indicated their apparent willingness to default on national debt.
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"There are no "Scottish" banks. "
So it looks as though Mrs H's kitchen is safe, along with my Lamborghini! Phew!
Thanks
Last edited by: Haywain on Mon 8 Sep 14 at 18:56
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"That's why I've drawn the analogy between support for Scottish independence and UKIP"
Are you saying that voting 'Yes' is the sensible thing to do, then?
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>> >>I'm all for keeping the Union and have seen my shares devalued by about £3k
>> because of the current polls.
>>
>> Mine too but I don't want to know how much, as a more important factor
>> is the loss on my Euro pensions. I too am for keeping the Union, if
>> this can strengthen the pound.
Shirley you'd be better with a weak pound, if your pensions are paid in Euro and you live in UK? Or are you an ex-pat retiree?
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>>Or are you an ex-pat retiree?
>>
I may be one of them soon and the grass may not be greener.
news.sky.com/story/1327128/exodus-of-brits-from-economic-woes-in-cyprus
I have a plan B English address.
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www.scotsman.com/news/comment-urgent-need-to-clip-wings-of-capital-flight-1-3534085
Unfortunately many heart voters don't read this sort of newspaper.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 8 Sep 14 at 17:46
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>> so if your cash is in a Scottish-based bank I'd think about where you might transfer it to.
>> Remember Cyprus.
Independence will not be implemented overnight :-) There will be plenty of time for the headquarters of these banks to move to England or Wales. Probably England. And lots of jobs with them too.
With no plan for an alternative currency and therefore no central bank of it's own, these banks will have no option but to move.
Let's hope the promises of more powers over taxation and spending announced today swings the vote back to no.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 8 Sep 14 at 18:15
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29115556
Is this a joke?
This buffoon is regarded in the same light up here as he is darn sarf.
I rank him equal to Ed Balls in "Do I think he'd be a good chancellor?" competitions.
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29115556
>>
>> Is this a joke?
>>
I nearly choked on my dinner at words 'Downing St welcomed Mr Brown's speech'
The establishment must be in a right panic......
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Royal bank of Scotland
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28600549
>could have a "material adverse effect" on its business
> could also affect the fiscal and monetary backdrop under which the bank operates.
>Although the outcome of the referendum is uncertain, subject to any mitigating factors, uncertainties resulting from an affirmative vote in favour of independence would be likely to significantly impact the group's credit ratings and could also impact the fiscal, monetary, legal and regulatory landscape to which the group is subject.
"Were Scotland to become independent, it may also affect Scotland's status in the EU.
>could significantly impact the group's costs and would have a material adverse effect on the group's business, financial condition, results of operations and prospects
>Despite this, RBS boss Ross McEwan has previously said the bank could "adapt" its business in the event of independence.
>RBS already operates in 38 countries around the world, and if it needed to be 39 then he said 'that's what we'll do'.
>recent survey by finance firm Deloitte highlighted that businesses were more concerned about the impact of the next UK election and a referendum on leaving the EU than Scottish independence.
seems to be a lot of coulds, very few woulds and certainly nothing to say they were moving everything down South and shutting up shop in Scotland?
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But going back to my original discussion point, why , if Scotland is such a drain on UK resources , are the political parties appearing to be panicking that this vote is going to be yes? Are they all secretly happy to lose us but want to put a face on it?
Or is it just the "hassle" factor that is going to come with it, between that, a General Election and a Euro in/out vote it will be too much?
In the same way that everyone the No put forward turns out to work in Yes campaigns interest, I wonder what would have happened if Cameron et al adopted a "good riddance" approach and indicated they were glad to get rid of us?
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Well the pound against other currencies is down because of this. And the cost of splitting the union will no doubt be passed on to the rest of us.
But there's still a bit of me that thinks: 'if those living in Scotland think they are better off out of the UK and therefore the EU.... give it a try' :-) I wonder how many non-Scottish people with a vote would vote yes?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 8 Sep 14 at 20:23
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>> Well the pound against other currencies is down because of this.
I think it's down because of uncertainty, possibly in part coming from that poll. Markets hate uncertainty.
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I think you'll find the biggest risk to Scotland leaving the EU is a No vote and cameron not welching on his offer of an in/out referendum.
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The poind isn't doin by all that much. It always yoyos a bit anyway, although not usually by 10% in a day or two.
Lygonos has a point though. I trust the Scots to vote no, fingers crossed, but I don't trust the rest of us not to be moronically xenophobic.
Legs plaited actually... but perhaps I'm panicking over nothing.
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Spain have declared that they will veto Scotland becoming an EU member. They have a separatist movement that they want to discourage. (The Basque ). Also I believe Euro use is mandatory.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 8 Sep 14 at 20:43
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Edit, That is rubbish, the UK does not use the Euro, but Spain does not want to encourage the Basques or Catalonians.
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>> I think you'll find the biggest risk to Scotland leaving the EU is a No
>> vote and cameron not welching on his offer of an in/out referendum.
One thing I don't understand, are the jock populous in favour of the EU or not? The yes campaign seem to want an independent sweaty land to be in the EU.
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>>One thing I don't understand, are the jock populous in favour of the EU or not?
Moreso than England I think, but I think we see it a bit more distant than England so perhaps less 'threatening'. More of a trading partner and place to holiday, than a source of competition and unwanted immigrants.
IMO the influx of working Europeans has been good for the economy up here - unemployment is lower than rUK despite the immigrants, although Scottish population is relatively flat compared to England.
We have a good chunk of xenophobes here too, but as there are so few 'dark faces' and ethnic groups, these cretins are more sectarian than racist.
I dare say if towns up here were 5-10% Asian we'd be just as racially antagonistic as the more ethnically diverse South.
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>> But going back to my original discussion point, why , if Scotland is such a
>> drain on UK resources ,
Its not currently, but as soon as there is a yes vote it suddenly becomes so. One that we south of the border have to pay for and didn't ask for.
>> In the same way that everyone the No put forward turns out to work in
>> Yes campaigns interest, I wonder what would have happened if Cameron et al adopted a
>> "good riddance" approach and indicated they were glad to get rid of us?
Everyone south of the border should have kept their traps shut. You'd soon get bored with Salmonds financial fairy tales.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 8 Sep 14 at 21:20
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>> seems to be a lot of coulds, very few woulds and certainly nothing to say
>> they were moving everything down South and shutting up shop in Scotland?
Good lord, didn't you understand any of that? Its a warning, a threat. Wait and see.
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>>Good lord, didn't you understand any of that? Its a warning, a threat. Wait and see
"All three have indicated they will move HQ South in the event of a yes vote, because they need the BoE (note the Bank of ENGLAND) to act as lender of last resort (Guarantor in effect) to enable them to obtain cheap money. All the more important since the prospective gov of Scotland indicated their apparent willingness to default on national debt. "
Where does the RBS state they are moving to England in the event of Yes vote?
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>> Where does the RBS state they are moving to England in the event of Yes vote?
They'll have to move the HQ because they will need to based in the remainder of the UK because of the £ and the BoE etc. Or do we think they can be outside of the UK - perhaps they can/will move to Switzerland instead?
And with two of them part owned by the UK government still... what do you think might happen?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 8 Sep 14 at 21:57
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>> >>Good lord, didn't you understand any of that? Its a warning, a threat. Wait and
>> see
>>
>> "All three have indicated they will move HQ South in the event of a yes
>> vote, because they need the BoE (note the Bank of ENGLAND) to act as lender
>> of last resort (Guarantor in effect) to enable them to obtain cheap money. All the
>> more important since the prospective gov of Scotland indicated their apparent willingness to default on
>> national debt. "
>>
>> Where does the RBS state they are moving to England in the event of Yes
>> vote?
Here
Were Scotland to become independent, it may also affect Scotland's status in the EU.
>could significantly impact the group's costs and would have a material adverse effect on the group's business, financial condition, results of operations and prospects..
Read between the lines.
But ask the governor of the bank of England if you don't believe me, who has said they will not be lender of last resort. There is no "Bank of Scotland", to do that job.
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>>Were Scotland to become independent, it may also affect Scotland's status in the EU
riiiight... see my point about the biggest risk to EU membership above
>>But ask the governor of the bank of England if you don't believe me, who has said they will not be lender of last resort.
Imagine the world... banks who are not so big they cannot be allowed to fail... banks who lend according to their reserves at interest rates that match the risks involved... no 'lender of last resort to write out an infinitely large cheque to bail out catastrophically foolish risks/gash intra-bank investments...
it could never work...
Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 8 Sep 14 at 22:28
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>> Imagine the world... banks who are not so big they cannot be allowed to fail...
>> banks who lend according to their reserves at interest rates that match the risks involved...
>> no 'lender of last resort to write out an infinitely large cheque to bail out
>> catastrophically foolish risks/gash intra-bank investments...
>>
>> it could never work...
Nope it never has, You think Scotland has the magic bullet? Specially as it was a Scottish bank that was the worse offender in Europe.
Encouraged by Salmond at the time I seem to recall. He seems to be pretty quiet on the banking question as it happens.
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>Imagine the world... banks who are not so big they cannot be allowed to fail...
You mean banks who aren't big enough to fund more individual debt than a house mortgage?
They used to be called a Building Society but they weren't any use to business.
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>>Read between the lines
And that is the crux of this whole thing. My Facebook and social media has been filled with quotes, statements of facts, analysis etc that the sheer volume of it could be, and is, overwhelming.
One friend, a staunch Yes man, is posting fact after quote after fact. One night last week I was at a loose end and did some googling and factually disproved 4 of the quotes and statements that he had posted that night . That had been shared on social media and through all the usual distribution lists.
I have no doubt that the No's are doing the same camp, in fact they are as I have seen some public "ripping to shreds" of some of their arguments.
Nine days out and I am still, genuinely, in the don't know camp. Its not a nice place to be.
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>> Nine days out and I am still, genuinely, in the don't know camp. Its not
>> a nice place to be.
As one Scots bloke said,
In a General Election If I vote for the wrong party, I only have 5 years of problems, If I get this vote wrong............
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>> Nine days out and I am still, genuinely, in the don't know camp. Its not a nice place to be.
In which case vote no and maybe get a chance to vote on this again. Vote yes and maybe regret it for decades. As might your children and grandchildren.
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>I nearly choked on my dinner at words 'Downing St welcomed Mr Brown's speech'
>The establishment must be in a right panic......
They were in a right panic. It was looking like a certain 'No' vote until they persuaded Gollum to pitch in his two-penneth.
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>> It was looking like a certain 'No' vote until they persuaded Gollum to pitch in his two-penneth.
Hadn't heard much from Moyes since he left Man Utd.
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The Scots are more like the Danes and Swedes.Similair attitudes more left wing than the English.
Most Scots hate the Tories no trust, and Labour is taken with a pinch of salt.
5 million people similar size to Denmark.Be interesting how it pans out,the money markets are nervous.Just my take on it for what it's worth.>:)
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"more left wing than the English."
I suspect that the English would be more 'left wing' if it were not for the fact that leftish politicians have proved themselves just as rotten as the right.
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There was a senior civil servant (cabinet secretary. perhaps?) on the radio this morning being hauled before the Commons Quizzing Committee.
He kept insisting that the PM had ordered that there would be no contingency planning by any officials against the possibility of a Yes vote. Pressed by unbelieving MPs, he repeatedly said that was true - no planning whatsoever.
One Welsh MP tried a sneaky backdoor approach - surely there must have been some consideration given to the effect on Welsh devolution if the Scottish parliament does, or does not, get additional powers?
No again, no contingency planning has been undertaken.
It seems unbelievable - the fellow must be lying through his teeth. Surely government departments constantly make some kind of contingency plans against almost any feasible event happening? They can't seriously base all their planning on the presumption that everything will always turn out as they want?
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>> It seems unbelievable - the fellow must be lying through his teeth. Surely government departments
>> constantly make some kind of contingency plans against almost any feasible event happening? They can't
>> seriously base all their planning on the presumption that everything will always turn out as
>> they want?
In Government and politics, You start planning for stuff you don't want to happen usually means it does happen.
Imagine the news papers when it leaked, and it would, 6 months ago. "GOV PLANS FOR UNION BREAKUP"
The YES vote would have been a walk in the park then.
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>> It seems unbelievable - the fellow must be lying through his teeth. Surely government departments
>> constantly make some kind of contingency plans against almost any feasible event happening? They can't
>> seriously base all their planning on the presumption that everything will always turn out as
>> they want?
>>
That would seem to have been the strategy of the British government all along. Now, faced with opinion polls that are no longer in their favour, come last minute concessions which smack of desperation.
In the event of a yes vote, I really can't wait to see how Salmond will actually deliver half the stuff he's promised.
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>> There was a senior civil servant (cabinet secretary. perhaps?) on the radio this morning being hauled before the Commons Quizzing Committee.
>> He kept insisting that the PM had ordered that there would be no contingency planning
>> by any officials against the possibility of a Yes vote. Pressed by unbelieving MPs, he
>> repeatedly said that was true - no planning whatsoever............................
>> It seems unbelievable - the fellow must be lying through his teeth. Surely government departments constantly make some kind of contingency plans against almost any feasible event happening? They can't seriously base all their planning on the presumption that everything will always turn out as they want?>>
May I refer you to the post by Mr Bromptonaut earlier in this thread?
Bromp said:-
"I suspect that the now likely close run scenario wasn't in Dave'n'Gideon's planning. They saw it as a re-run of the voting reform referendum with a (reasonably) decisive no kicking the idea into the long grass for a generation or so. My former colleagues in Whitehall tell me that they were not allowed to plan for any activity that might follow a Yes vote."
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"they were not allowed to plan for any activity that might follow a Yes vote."
And quite right too. There will be no "yes" vote. Expect to see a around a 55% "no" vote.
Far too much hype surrounding the results of one opinion poll. Just look where the money's going.
www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/yes-vote-percentage
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I suspect that the plan in case of a yes vote is to pull the plug on as much as possible as quickly as possible.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 9 Sep 14 at 09:47
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>> I suspect that the plan in case of a yes vote is to pull the plug on as much as possible as quickly as possible.
>>
I vote YES to that.
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>> >> My former colleagues in
>> Whitehall tell me that they were not allowed to plan for any activity that might
>> follow a Yes vote."
>>
>>
"Were", but not now either? Not a hasty meeting to consider a "What if " ?
This chap wasn't just talking about the past - he meant now, in the final run-up.
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There are contingency plans for almost every situation imaginable, most of them are not public knowledge. I don't think this will be any different. The Official Secrets Act buys a lot of silence.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 9 Sep 14 at 10:23
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>> There are contingency plans for almost every situation imaginable, most of them are not public
>> knowledge. I don't think this will be any different.
Used to be, not any more. Contingency for everything costs too much money.
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Sorry about the double post. I got caught in the thread split.
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>>
>> Used to be, not any more. Contingency for everything costs too much money.
>>
Planning just uses coffee and paper. :)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 9 Sep 14 at 10:34
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>> >>
>> >> Used to be, not any more. Contingency for everything costs too much money.
>> >>
>>
>> Planning just uses coffee and paper. :)
Good lord! not any more!
You have Data Protection Act, Plan readiness Reviews, Retention and Destruction policy and review,
And thats just for the coffee requisition.
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>> The Scots are more like the Danes and Swedes.
Nazi sympathisers you mean?
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Well I've pulled out all the money I had in Scottish banks this morning.
To be honest it was only a fiver I'd overpaid into a BOS Mastercard account some years ago and never bothered about, but as Tesco keep reminding us, every little helps! :-)
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Independence Vote - Old Navy
