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Continuing debate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 9 Oct 14 at 01:25
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Ahh... at last the name they didn't want to name...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28790718
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Could have sworn he lived in Weybridge. Not Berkshire.
Innocent until and all that jazz again.
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>> Could have sworn he lived in Weybridge. Not Berkshire.
>>
He did. St Georges Hill, moved a little while ago.
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Bah. About time we reinforced that soppy border. Let me guess, Ascot (or Earscutt in the local dialect) area?
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>> Bah. About time we reinforced that soppy border. Let me guess, Ascot (or Earscutt in
>> the local dialect) area?
>>
So it's in Sunnungdale then. Wasn't far off. That's in the DMZ between the two in my book, the border going through the middle of it.
Golfists' ghetto.
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>> >> Bah. About time we reinforced that soppy border. Let me guess, Ascot (or Earscutt
>> in
>> >> the local dialect) area?
>> >>
>>
>> So it's in Sunnungdale then. Wasn't far off. That's in the DMZ between the two
>> in my book, the border going through the middle of it.
>>
>> Golfists' ghetto.
Careful, that chip on your shoulder is showing again.
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I like to think I have one on both shoulders for balance.
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>> I like to think I have one on both shoulders for balance.
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I think to qualify for this forum they both have to be on the same shoulder :-)
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>> Innocent until and all that jazz again.
>>
This operation stinks, it's not part of Yewtree, what is it part of?
Announcement made to the press but owner not informed (according to bbc article), while he is out of the country (like most of the time), why inform the press, why not inform the owner.
Allegation dates to 1980s, he has owned the house since 2008 (according to Telegraph article)
What evidence do they really expect to find when the guy owns a number of houses not in the UK?
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>> Could have sworn he lived in Weybridge. Not Berkshire.
He did, but as his fortune waned he had to move down market.
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>> >> Could have sworn he lived in Weybridge. Not Berkshire.
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>> He did, but as his fortune waned he had to move down market.
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In terms of price, maybe. In terms of class, no.
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>> Ahh... at last the name they didn't want to name...
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Told you (not)
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I find it disturbing that the press was informed before hand that this would happen, well enough in advance for a film crew to turn up.
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>> I find it disturbing that the press was informed before hand that this would happen,
>> well enough in advance for a film crew to turn up.
>>
Abso *** lutely
If he has done anything wrong he can rot with Rolf, at this stage in the investigation it is no better than smear tactics.
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>> I find it disturbing that the press was informed before hand that this would happen,
>> well enough in advance for a film crew to turn up.
>>
It could almost make one think that some of our police are corrupt.
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One of my favourite conspiracy theory mates has already said they they waited till he'd gone abroad to give him the opportunity to not come back. I wonder if extradition would apply?
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He is apparently in Portugal where there is an extradition treaty with the UK....
However, he is now a Barbados (Bajan?) citizen and no longer a UK one - no extradition from there I believe.
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Blimey, and they used to say the Americans were the experts in conspiracy theories, some of you guys....
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Here's another theory:
There's obviously no chance of actually finding any evidence there - there have been years in which to clear the place of anything incriminating.
Therefore the point is not to actually uncover anything, but to stage such a big show in the hope of flushing out more evidence and accusations from the sort of people who now mysteriously seem to materialise once a big name is in the news.
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There have been numerous rumours concerning CR around for a long time. There are photographs of him in the company of characters of dubious reputation, - but all a long time ago.
Surely nothing will surprise after recent evnts.
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Not Harry surely.Will he be joining Rolf.?
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>> One of my favourite conspiracy theory mates has already said they waited till he'd
>> gone abroad to give him the opportunity to not come back.
You mean he's not just gone on a Summer Holiday?
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>You mean he's not just gone on a Summer Holiday?
I think it might be Willie and the Hand Jive.
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We are in London. The drive was fine apart from a bit of a crawl up Castelnau. After Hammersmith Bridge traffic was normal, not bad at all.
An hour ago I was talking to a friend who is something of a conspiracy theorist, but a clever one who can make your blood run cold when the talk turns to geopolitics.
On the Cliff Richard palaver, her line was that 'they're going for these showbiz people to mask their failure to go after the really great and bad, politicians and senior royals' or words to that effect. As always I'm not entirely convinced, but there may be an element of that.
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There's a certain public relish in toppling these idols, which I'm sure the police must succomb to too.
They've done footballers, but they are no fun any more, because everyone knows they are naughty boys, it's a job requirement now, and it's impossible to find any more mud to sling at them.
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>> her line was that 'they're going for these showbiz people
>> to mask their failure to go after the really great and bad, politicians and senior
>> royals' or words to that effect. As always I'm not entirely convinced, but there may
>> be an element of that.
The conspiracy bit is the distraction tactic. Maybe that requires some imagination.
Nevertheless I think it's a given that there must have been names coming up who have been deemed 'untouchable' because of their position or connections, on another pretext of course - e.g. lack of evidence (which hasn't been looked for too energetically).
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You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to realise there is some truth in what she says.
Princess Diana became to populair the people took to her like no other royal.Queen Juliana had the same effect on people.Nice to have a friend like that A.C.who has a different vieuw than the masses.
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Has anyone or anywhere actually named or hinted at who the "senior royal" is
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Thats the gay thing, no scandal there. There are however persistent reports that a senior royal was part of a pedophile ring that included showbiz, and government figures.
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Yes. And as far as I know no senior royal has been named.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 15 Aug 14 at 12:06
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Cliff Richard denies everything all over today's comic.
What I'd forgotten was what a right-wing twit the Bachelor Boy was. He said he played concerts in apartheid South Africa because Jesus told him to. Yuck. And the Brylcreem barnet too. Double yuck.
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And the grim, nasty and evil American super-reactionary Billy Graham. Quadruple yuck, total technicolor yawn.
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I've got an autographed copy of his autobiography in the joke section of our loo.
Do you think I ought to offload it on ebay now before prices tumble?
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>> I've got an autographed copy of his autobiography in the joke section of our loo.<<
Just how big is your loo?
Whatever do you do in one that big?
Are you really that rich?
Pat
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>> >> I've got an autographed copy of his autobiography in the joke section of our
>> loo.<<
>>
>> Just how big is your loo?
>>
>> Whatever do you do in one that big?
>>
>> Are you really that rich?
You mean you don't have a library in your loo? Sure your loo has a window ledge at least that can be turned into a very respectable loo reading list.
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>> You mean you don't have a library in your loo? Sure your loo has a
>> window ledge at least that can be turned into a very respectable loo reading list.
>>
I thought these days one had a Kindle hanging on the back of the door ?
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There is a stool, on which is a copy of Truck & Driver, 2 copies of Commercial Motor and numerous copies of Performance Bikes but that's hardly a library, is it?
Pat
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A stool?
Hmm - might have to re-think that one :-)
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It can't get worse
The BBC provided the victim and info to the police. And the old bill are now crowing about all the other people coming forward.
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The BBC/Police co-operation here is deeply suspect.
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>>The BBC/Police co-operation here is deeply suspect.
Well it seems that Mr Orwell had a point. The media, owned by the state creates the crime and the state police deals with it.
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"Well it seems that Mr Orwell had a point. The media, owned by the state creates the crime and the state police deals with it."
NOt quite true I'm afraid.
The BBC did not obtain the story from another source, not South Yorkshire Police Force. The BBC then approached the Police who confirmed the story.
Now we can criticise the police force for leaking the story and I would like to see the justification of raiding the house whilst the owner was away but I don't see that the BBC were doing anything that a journalist should not do.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 16 Aug 14 at 08:48
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>> The BBC did not obtain the story from another source, not South Yorkshire Police Force.
>>
Are there one too many 'nots' in that sentence?
>> I would like to see the justification of raiding the house whilst the owner was away
>>
What do you expect the police to do? Wait until the owner (whoever it may be) returns and then raid the place? Why that might be six months away!
Tell the owner 'Oh, by the way sir, when you come back to the UK we would like to raid your house, but in your own time sir, no rush'. In the meantime, the owner tells one of his staff to format the hard drives on all the computers in the property thereby destroying any evidence!
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>>What do you expect the police to do?
They can have no reasonable expectation of finding any evidence whatsoever of the alleged offence 25 years ago in the flat. And what about his other houses?
It seems to me that the whole show was designed to attract more accusations, and as things now seem to go, many accusations = guilt.
If you need an explanation of how the police were completely out of order, the article in the Indy by Geoffrey Robertson QC explains it very well.
Perhaps they were inspired by the history of Al Capone, and hope to trip over evidence of tax dodging.
Yew Tree et al has done nothing for the reputation and perceived integrity of the police. I have never had overmuch faith in the police as an institution and the events of recent years have done nothing to rehabilitate it. That is not at all to question the integrity of individual officers, many of whom must find themselves wrapped up in processes that they find absolutely bizarre.
The whole institution seems to be thoroughly disfunctional. Too many targets, too much political interference, and too much grandstanding altogether getting in the way of just "doing the right thing".
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>> Are you really that rich?
>>
Heavens no! It's just the slm-line abridged version, not the full calf-bound hand tooled gilt embossed set.
Titled "Which one's Clff?" if you want to look out for a copy.
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>> I've got an autographed copy of his autobiography in the joke section of our loo.
>> Do you think I ought to offload it on ebay now before prices tumble?
I should hang onto it, in brown-paper covers, until the crazed lefties have burned most of the known copies. Then it might be worth something like an original edition by some fool like Aleister Crowley or Jean Genet.
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An opinion from The Independent:
tinyurl.com/lvg2bwp
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>>An opinion from The Independent:
Quite right too! I thought it wrong that the media were there as it was clear that they had been tipped off. It would be nice to see a prosecution of a police officer for malfeasance in tipping them off but of course this will not happen.
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So taking it from another perspective. If investigative journalism discovers wrong doing and feeds the information to the Police how do you handle them?
You can choose to cut them out of the 'scoop' in which case they will do their own thing and blow the whole operation or you can work with them and try and manage the investigation in a proper manner but whoever feeds the information wants the 'scoop'.
Remember there is often an undercurrent of financial reward whereby 'victims' will go to the press in the first instance. Its a dirty game and leaves a nasty taste but is there another option?
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>> So taking it from another perspective. If investigative journalism discovers wrong doing and feeds the
>> information to the Police how do you handle them?
>>
>> You can choose to cut them out of the 'scoop' in which case they will
>> do their own thing and blow the whole operation or you can work with them
>> and try and manage the investigation in a proper manner but whoever feeds the information
>> wants the 'scoop'.
>>
>> Remember there is often an undercurrent of financial reward whereby 'victims' will go to the
>> press in the first instance. Its a dirty game and leaves a nasty taste but
>> is there another option?
Any decent defence will mangle a prosecution that stems from this.
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>> I thought it wrong that the media were there as it was
>> clear that they had been tipped off.
It was the media that tipped off the police in the first place!
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>> An opinion from The Independent:
>>
>> tinyurl.com/lvg2bwp
Absolutely on the button.
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Of course crimes need to be prosecuted, but I am concerned that apparently people are coming forward to complain about Cliff Richard now when Operation Yewtree has been going on for at least a couple of years. Surely they would have thought at the time of all the others that they should have made a complaint.
IMHO there is a really money grabbing element to this.
Next it'll be other 1960's, 70's and 80's pop and rock groups who always seem to have been followed around by groupies.
Last edited by: zippy on Sat 16 Aug 14 at 12:58
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>> IMHO there is a really money grabbing element to this.
>>
Well, there might be, but you don't know that.
Perhaps the alleged victim was so traumatised that they have only just summoned up the courage to report the alleged offence.
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>> >> An opinion from The Independent:
>> >>
>> >> tinyurl.com/lvg2bwp
>>
>> Absolutely on the button.
Not too often I agree with the Indy - but they are correct. It is a disgrace.
Mind you, C.R. should be punished for some of the awful songs for which he's been responsible over the years! :-)
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>> Mind you, C.R. should be punished for some of the awful songs for which he's
>> been responsible over the years! :-)
Different case, different offence, already guilty.
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It's true that this huge and very public raid on one of the guy's gaffs, which can't possibly have produced any meaningful evidence of anything except large money and garish taste, constitutes disgraceful bullying treatment as Zero points out. Having nasty right-wing friends and a brylcreem hairdo aren't legal offences, any more than retailing syrupy made-up guff about Jesus telling you to do things is an offence. Any offence is aesthetic, really in the eye of the beholder.
Being homosexual isn't illegal either. But CR hasn't exactly come out, although he seems to dismiss celibacy in his own case. It's no one else's business anyway unless he chooses to talk about it. But the police seem to admit that they and the BBC did it like that in the hope of making other allegations and accusations come out of the woodwork. And it appears that some have, although their value hasn't been stated.
He's kept his figure well hasn't he?
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>> But the police seem to admit that they and the BBC
>> did it like that in the hope of making other allegations and accusations come out
>> of the woodwork.
>>
Conspiracy, eh?
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>>But the police seem to admit that they and the BBC
>> did it like that in the hope of making other allegations and accusations come out
>> of the woodwork.
A bit like the Stazi going up to a local snitch and asking if they knew so and so and has he done anything wrong, with no other evidence.
Imagine a scenario where someone was picked on by random and presented to the media with the request that anyone who knows if the person has ever done any wrong! We wouldn't put up with it, one would hope!?
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I think that the lawyers are going to make a fortune out of this one.
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The best way to perpetuate a story is to keep denying it. Doesn't matter if it's an obvious invention or completely unprovable, if you talk about it by denying it, the press will think there is something in it.
The statement that CR gave is adequate, and the best advice now would be to shut up. With nothing new - the press will eventually go away.
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One has to remember that Cliff Richard was an Elvis Presley imitator, similar brylcreem cowlick, same sort of pouting smooth-boy looks, same slim figure and gyrating hips.
That was why we didn't like him at the time: he was too English and didn't have nearly such a good growling voice. And of course the songs weren't as good. But mostly people didn't like him because he wasn't Elvis, or American, and didn't have blues or at least bluegrass from his mother's knee.
Nevertheless the ordinary punters bought lots of his records because after all he sang in tune and had what passed for a jolly, youthful personality. He must have worked hard and taken a lot of flak from suits. One can't grudge him his millions, Billy Graham or no Billy Graham.
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Can't say I cared much for his singing.To smooth to nicey nicey for me.
Good luck with his money you can't take it with you.How people follow these religious guru's I don't know.There is nothing spiritual about them.
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Let's just hope that if the police found anything, it was just porn... and not another album.
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>> Let's just hope that if the police found anything, it was just porn... and not
>> another album.
Worse, another Christmas song......
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A not-bad piece by Rod Liddle in the Sunday Times, saying a lot of the tunes were criminal but there's no evidence anything else was, and something 30 years ago in another place, well, what's the damn point of a big raid and putting all the guy's electronic crap in bin bags?
Liddle didn't mention the suggestion, made last night, that the publicity was intended to encourage further allegations.
A more grown-up piece by conservative bruiser David Davis in the same comic did say S Yorks police were 'now saying' that further allegations had been made following the publicity. Davis says the miscarriage of justice over Savile has led to a climate that risks multiple miscarriages of justice in the other direction, people's lives being ruined by an allegation that may be worthless, mad or malicious. I would agree with that generally, but would make an exception in Rolf Harris's case. Simply because he really does seem, in the opinion of a judge, to be really awful as a sexual bully and opportunist.
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Liddle didn't mention the suggestion, made last night, that the publicity was intended to encourage further allegations.
Which is a shame as that was probably the real and only reason the raid was undertaken. The chance of finding anything related to an incident over 10 years before the property was bought would imply the potential defendant was monumentally stupid.
The other negative point about the raid is that such enquiries become devalued and somebody as guilty as sin, but not in the public eye will become much harder to nab.
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It will be interesting to watch the BBC squirming over whether to play it or ban it.
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>> play it or ban it.
Banning it will make it even worse. Everyone will want to buy it to hear why it's been banned.
Remember Mike Read and Frankie Goes To Hollywood (Relax)
tinyurl.com/oxvdo77 - www.huffingtonpost.co.uk
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I wonder how rich I would have to be to buy enough copies of "Two Little Boys" to get it into the Top 40?
Just out of devilment, you understand :)
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The current Private Eye takes a pro-Cliff line, suggesting that the original accusation is worthless and the fuzz and the BBC conspired to make that enormous fuss in the hope of eliciting something prosecutable (not from the search which was never going to find anything, but from other over-the-hill chancers who might think it worthwhile to make 'historic' allegations).
If true, disgustingly sleazy. Many heads should roll.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 5 Sep 14 at 13:57
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A quick google found a document from 2006 saying that 2,500 sales in a week would get into the top 40 and 30,000 would make number 1. New counting rules on downloads and streaming plays may have changed that, but I still reckon you could have your bit of fun for £10,000.
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Retrial of Dave Lee Travis has begun today:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29076833
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Jury has now retired to consider its verdict.
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>> Jury has now retired to consider its verdict.
And were given a majority direction yesterday, so again they're unable to agree on at least some of the charges.
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>> >> Jury has now retired to consider its verdict.
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>> And were given a majority direction yesterday, so again they're unable to agree on at
>> least some of the charges.
>>
Guilty on one charge, cleared on one charge. Cleared on a further charge of assaulting a journalist.
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DLT found guilty on one charge only
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29331740
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Former Radio 1 DJ Dave Lee Travis has been given a suspended sentence of three months for indecently assaulting a woman in 1995.
The 69-year-old had been found guilty of attacking a researcher who was working on TV's Mrs Merton Show.
Judge Anthony Leonard told Travis: "It was an intentional and unpleasant sexual assault."
Travis, of Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, had been cleared of a 1990 indecent assault and a 2008 sexual assault.
He was being retried for these latter two charges after jurors could not reach a verdict on them at a trial earlier this year, during which he was cleared of 12 indecent assault charges.
On Tuesday the jury at Southwark Crown Court found him not guilty of the indecent assault and could not reach a verdict over the sexual assault charge.
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>> Former Radio 1 DJ Dave Lee Travis has been given a suspended sentence of three
>> months for indecently assaulting a woman in 1995.
What sentence(s) was he given after his earlier trial(s)?
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>> What sentence(s) was he given after his earlier trial(s)?
None. Acquitted on some charges. Hung jury on the others hence the retrial.
I thought they'd get him for the most recent instance which involved a journalist interviewing him at home. Obviously she's anonymous but ISTR reading an article at about same time written by a name that's quite well known.
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So the dozen cases that were brought together in order to show a pattern are reduced to a conviction for indecent assault that is a three month suspended sentence.
That was worth it, wasn't it. Particularly the retrial.
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>> So the dozen cases that were brought together in order to show a pattern are
>> reduced to a conviction for indecent assault that is a three month suspended sentence.
>>
>> That was worth it, wasn't it. Particularly the retrial.
>>
I am trying to remember the names of the then middle aged women I used to work with back in the late 70's when I was a young lad who used to grab/grope my bum so that I can have them charged with indecent assault.
Last edited by: Skip on Fri 26 Sep 14 at 15:25
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>> I am trying to remember the names of the then middle aged women I used
>> to work with back in the late 70's when I was a young lad who
>> used to grab/grope my bum so that I can have them charged with indecent assault.
>>
>>
Absolutely, was not just a male activity, I remember our young male engineers in the 70s being less than keen to enter the data entry room full of (about 100+ ) geordie women to fix punch card machines at a well known government department. I guess that made them all "civil" servants.
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>> Absolutely, was not just a male activity, I remember our young male engineers in the
>> 70s being less than keen to enter the data entry room full of (about 100+
>> ) geordie women to fix punch card machines at a well known government department. I
>> guess that made them all "civil" servants.
Ditto the typing pool was a zoo, young good looking typewriter engineers thrown to the lionesses.
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I guess that Shaun Wright has negotiated his gold plated quitting package, as he's bitten the bullet today and he's toast.
I suppose there'll be another election for this most useless of all public sector leeching jobs.
Sorry -news already posted in "Rotherham" thread - feel free to move!
Last edited by: Roger. on Tue 16 Sep 14 at 12:39
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And now the finger points at Dr Fox.
DJ Neil Fox has been arrested by police investigating claims of sex offences.
The arrest came after separate allegations were made by two women, the Metropolitan Police said.
The 53-year-old was held in Soho, central London, at the studios of Magic FM, where he presents the breakfast show. He was later released on bail.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29431833
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>> DJ Neil Fox has been arrested by police investigating claims of sex offences.
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29431833
Thread on this in another forum is titled 'Last Night a DJ Groped my Wife'
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>
>> The 53-year-old was held in Soho, central London, at the studios of Magic FM, where
>> he presents the breakfast show. He was later released on bail.
>
Now you see him, now you don't. It must be .....
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As a young teen my daughter won a competition in the Young Telegraph for which the prize was lunch with Dr Fox (- this was when he was with Capital). So we trekked up to somewhere near Leicester Square, met him and his PR girl for a coffee then had a very pleasant hour or so with him in some posh burger joint. Seemed all right to me...
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Next in the firing line. - Fenlander
