www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28662561
Thought I heard them launch early today. Unusal to see it land at Manchester rather than Stansted or Prestwick.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Tue 5 Aug 14 at 14:04
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So- if there WAS a terrorist bomber on board, what could a RAF fighter airplane do to stop an on-board incident?
Zilch.
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I thought the idea was they shot it down if needs be; at least that must be the ultimate sanction.
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I was thinking the same stop it crashing in the middle of a town.Shoot it down before it happens.
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>> I thought the idea was they shot it down if needs be; at least that
>> must be the ultimate sanction.
It entirely depends on circumstances. Its an easy choice to make over sea, but once you get over UK soil it becomes a nightmare. Shoot down a plane on most route in England and you have the deaths of all on board, and unknown quantities of deaths on land. Its not as if the place you shoot it down is the place where the wreckage lands. The only time you can shoot it down is if you know 100% its been taken control of, and is being aimed at a place that will create more casualties than if you shoot it down. Hobsons choice. I doubt anyone has the authority to shoot down a civilian airliner over UK population*
The escort was sent up merely so the powers that be had a handle on whats was going on in real time.
*The AA missiles set up for the Olympic games was clearly a farce. What do you do, shoot down an airliner over London? Do that and you have more deaths than if it had been allowed to hit the stadium.
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Westminster or near J10 of the M25, easy choice.
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>> Westminster or near J10 of the M25, easy choice.
Well its taken you less than 24 hours to become an aggressive attention seeker - glad to see you have become a feature of the forum.
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. I
>> doubt anyone has the authority to shoot down a civilian airliner over UK population*
>>
>>
>>
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>> *The AA missiles set up for the Olympic games was clearly a farce. What do
>> you do, shoot down an airliner over London? Do that and you have more deaths
>> than if it had been allowed to hit the stadium.
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The PM could give the ok to do it, whether anyone would is another matter.
Do you mean the ones placed on top of flats? Shooting down large airliners isnt really its role.
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>> >> I
>> doubt anyone has the authority to shoot down a civilian airliner over UK population
>>
Interesting point. But I think a civilian vessel of any kind loses some of it's immunity once there are reasonable grounds for believing that it has the capability for engaging in an act of war?
That was the German justification for sinking the Lusitania - it was allegedly carrying munitions. The argument appeared to be conceded by the British, because they denied the claim.
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Not really designed for that, it's there incase if the incident turns into something else. Who knows if a device was onboard and then what manner it might be used to coerce ?
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There will be clear well defined Rules of Engagement for the Typhoon crews, as there are for armed police and other situations. The procedure for any permissions required will also be clear and easily accessed. I have spoken to people who flew into Washington a couple of days after 9/11 while the civil flight ban was on. Their clearly marked RAF transport was escorted in by American fighter jets. I suspect the RAF pilots obeyed their ATC instructions to the letter. :-)
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What is the real reason that you have to open the blinds in the plane when taking off and landing?
I have heard everything from letting rescuers see into the plane to letting passengers advise if the engines are on fire?
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>> What is the real reason that you have to open the blinds in the plane
>> when taking off and landing?
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>> I have heard everything from letting rescuers see into the plane to letting passengers advise
>> if the engines are on fire?
So you or the crew can see which side of the plane is on fire before you open the emergency exits. Its a rule that came in after the BA fire at Manchester
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What I can remember is being ordered to close the blinds when flying over bits of the Sahara in Algerian aircraft. Naturally one did one's best to peep through at the military airstrips one was supposed not to see. It was all a bit theatrical and pointless, guaranteed to stimulate storms of hack gossip and stuff. That was probably the point.
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Too tight security is counter productive, you have to let the opposition know that you have a credible deterrent, at any level.
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It must be scary sat on a plane and there is a bomb scare.How I would react I don't know trying to take it in at first I suppose.
Not much you can do if that person sat next to you and said I'm only kidding.A smack in the gob would be in order.
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The idiot who did it is likely to face 3 years.
tinyurl.com/q6zk9rx
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So a fighter jet appears along side your passenger jet which suggests some sought of problem.
If things get out of hand - i.e. it looks like the fighter jet is going to shoot you down because terrorists are in control of your jet, what do you do? (If there is any change of a jet being flown in to a populated area by terrorists then I have no doubt that the RAF have orders to bring it down.)
Do you sit there quietly or do you try to take on the bad guys?
Answers on a postcard please....
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Well if the RAF are going to fill you full of shrapnel, and the terrorists are determined to do you in, then you might as well take them on.
Be ironic tho if you took them on, and won, just in time for the RAF to make jam of you.
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>>It must be scary sat on a plane and there is a bomb scare>>
In this case, the passengers didn't have any clue as to the reason for the RAF fighter circling the aircraft and were little the wiser after they had disembarked and reached the terminal.
Those savvy enough to know under what circumstances such measures would be taken would be troubled though, I would expect.
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I would think the last thing a civil aircraft crew would want to do is frighten the passengers. They will blatantly lie about technical problems to keep the punters calm. Fighters alongside, just the Red Arrows practacing. You will never see the fighter that shoots you down.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 6 Aug 14 at 14:02
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Would it be the one behind the passenger plane, a long way back? Presumably the adjacent Typhoon can't fire from such short range, not to mention it's a bit close and pointing away? As per the apocryphal US instruction on a weapon "fire towards the enemy!"
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If you can see a fighter alongside, start wondering where the other one is. :-)
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>> If you can see a fighter alongside,
You feel perfectly safe
>>start wondering where the other one is. :-)
The other one won't start shooting while his wingman is loitering in the target area.
When the one you can see shoots off quickly, then you panic.
I have flown into Gibraltar on a BA plane with an escort of RAF Harriers, because the then Governor - Sir Joshua Hussein, was on board, and the Spanish were acting the goat.
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>> Too tight security is counter productive, you have to let the opposition know that you have a credible deterrent, at any level.
Yes ON, that was what I meant really about the theatrical side. But to be fair there's an element of real paranoia sometimes. Tindouf is a military airstrip, in a bleak and stony desert with water scarce and hard to get at. Unlike other areas of the Sahara it is hostile and very un-picturesque: no tourist would fancy going there. Nevertheless Tindouf exists as a small, largely military town, and the Western Saharan refugees in dispute with nearby Morocco are camped uncomfortably nearby and being maintained by Algeria.
I went there once in an old Air Algerie Ilyushin with a load of other hacks to visit those camps. That was when the crew ordered us to close the blinds and not peep. We landed using no more than a quarter of the immensely long and wide runway, fit for the most enormous and deadly aircraft. No airport buildings visible, the crate lumbered into a sort of layby and people got out to stand in the sun. A minute later two of the very latest MiG fighters, can't remember whether they were 21s or 23s (I'm no expert, all these strike fighters look much the same to me) landed in formation and came whistling down the runway before disappearing into their berms. It was a time of (somewhat theatrical) tension between Morocco and Algeria and those MiGs had been escorting us. Can't say anyone ever felt threatened though.
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Qatar aircraft escorted - Roger.
