I think I completely lost my faith in human nature yesterday and I'm hoping some of you can re-assure me it's just lorry drivers I should be disgusted with.
Yesterday morning around 10am Ian went on to South Mimms lorry park for his 45 minute break. He was followed in by another lorry. There is parking all around the outside which faces the middle row where there is a herringbone layout. He saw a Brett's ( who he works for) in the middle row, but the park was almost full and he and the lorry following him managed to find an empty space on the outer spaces.
He thought he saw something on the floor by our lorry already parked there in the center but reversed in and wandered over to see who it was. As he got closer he saw someone lying semi-conscious on the floor by the open door of our lorry. The driver of the lorry who followed him in also came over as he had seen it too.
It was an agency driver working for us and she wasn't able to tell anyone how she had got there, or where she was going. Ian Called an ambulance and a paramedic arrived and she couldn't recall answers to any questions asked such as day, year and struggled with her name so she was taken to hospital when the ambulance arrived.
She had left the yard at 4.30ish and was en route to Croydon but should have been around South Mimms by 6.30am at the latest.
Now, here is what is bugging me. Her lorry was facing a row of others with drivers all sitting in them but no-one had bothered to go and see what was wrong. How long had she been there on the floor?
Why didn't anyone go to help here?
Help me try and understand this by telling me what your thoughts would have been please.
Pat
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Would have done the same without thinking. Who are these morons?
In France it's a criminal offence 'not to assist someone in danger'. That is, of course, as long as somebody else notices.
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I would have helped but when I had a bad fall and was bleeding heavily in the gutter, the only attention I thought I would get was from a driver who slowed down to have a look, before driving off. Luckily for me, a young woman a short way off had seen me and called an ambulance.
Your story surprised me however as I always thought there was a camaraderie among heavy goods drivers.
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So did I ambo, there used to be, that's why I'm so shocked.
Pat
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Pat, you say Ian saw something on the floor, is it possible the other could have seen her as something else i.e. litter on the floor or something?
Was the sun in a direction that they may have been dazed and not able to see clearly in that direction?
Not making excuses for any of them, just find it had to believe that nobody had checked to see what was on the floor so I was wondering if there was a reason it wasn't clear to them
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But you do not know how long they had been on the ground? If they had had a a stroke or whatever in the cab on arrival, it is possible they only ended up on the floor when trying to make an exit from the cab just before ians arrival?
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It was clear to any of the drivers parked opposite and sitting in their cabs but it was also 5 minutes or so from when Ian first thought he saw something before he managed to find and reverse in a parking space and complete his paperwork, simply because he didn't realise it was a person from a distance.
He then decided to wander over to see who it was, as you do, if two drivers from the same firm meet up down the road.
Our information is sketchy because she is employed by an agency and not us, so they have to deal with, it but she has been released from hospital and is still extremely disorientated.
She became ill while driving and didn't know where she was or where to go, she couldn't find the lorry park even though she knew it well. She thought it was a bad migraine.
We think she fell down the cab steps when trying to get out to get some help but we're not sure at all about timings. That will become clear when we 'finally' get to download her digicard, but as she's agency it will depend upon when they do it and give us a copy.
What's on my mind and I'd like an honest opinion please, does anyone think it may be because she was female and they were reluctant to help for fear of getting accused of something? Or in case it was a scam?
Surely it can't be that?
Pat
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she wasn't able to tell anyone how she had got there, she couldn't recall answers to any questions asked such as day, year and struggled with her name
Typical woman driver.
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Hard to believe that anybody could have seen her and passed by or ignored her isn't it?
Difficult to see how she could remain unnoticed though. And the open door would draw attention.
Do you think she slipped/fell getting out of the cab?
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Investigated / Helped without a doubt!
Recall travelling on the M25 from Dartford some years ago with and noticed a small hatchback on the hard shoulder with a family in it and flames licking from under the bottom.
I pulled over but a van got there before me and he had an extinguisher on board. On seeing that the family bailed from the car and were safe.
I have also called the emergency services on numerous occasions when I have seen an accident even if I wasn't in a position to help. One was in 2012 when I witnessed a van just summersault on the M40 - most shocking thing ever. Again I got over to the hard shoulder but some big burly lorry drivers got there quicker than I could and went to help. Save for the phone call I wouldn't have been any further help - perhaps I should take a first aid course?
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Dont beat yourself up over it Pat. You have put some timescales on this incident indicating a worst case scenario that she had been laid there 3 and a half hours. But had she? When did she actually collapse? Did the illness start whilst she was in the cab and she remained there for some time before getting out? These are unknowns. Her tacho would show if and when she stopped and went into her rest period.
Inspite of our perceived opinion of the lack of human kindness at times I would find it really hard to believe that she had laid there that long and not one person had rendered assistance. It is not as though this is the kind of area frequented by the type of person who one may not want to be involved with - drink / drugs, that kind of thing.
Positive is that she did eventually get medical assistance and had not been laid in a wet freezing park all night.
"Do you think she slipped/fell getting out of the cab?"
Good assessment of potential scenario.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Fri 25 Jul 14 at 14:25
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Not really related but...there was an interesting Youtube a bit back - maybe linked from here where a young guy feigned illness during the commuter rush hour. When he was dressed as a "layabout" (hoody and scruffy) people walked on by. When he was in a suit peoole were with him before he hit the ground. was dressed
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FWIW, Pat, I've always stopped to see if something's wrong and whether I can help in similar circumstances
but
in doing so, I've found that people tend to hang back, or mill around, not sure of what to do, until somebody else (often muggins here) seems to take charge. Then they're happy to row in and help out.
The other drivers may not have seen her. They may have seen an open door and been wary of being seen snooping around. We can't know, and all we can do is resolve to offer our help again next time around regardless.
Interesting, that Youtube video was made in Paris - where, as Mike says, its supposed to be against the law not to stop and help in as far as you are able to do.
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Tisn't only Lorry drivers that are reluctant to help! - A comedian (new-age type apparently) disguised himself as a "Wino" and feigned a drunken collapse in a busy city street at "rush -hour". even though he was calling "please help me" to rushers by, no-one stopped to help. Next day he did exactly the same, but kitted out in a nice smart suit. Barely before he got to the floor there were "good Samaritains" clustered about him. Probably they would expect a "wino" in that situation, whereas a Smart-looking person would be strange.
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I would always try and assist, and on occasions have but then I have experience of being on the other side of the equation and it wasn't a recent occurrence so it's not necessarily a modern thing.
Back in 1974 I had a nasty bike accident on a filthy November evening at about 21:30. It was on an unlit rural road, the local council had, unknown to me opened a trench in the road and had left it very poorly guarded with no lights; I rode into the trench at about 50 mph making a mess of both me and the bike.
Drifting in and out of consciousness I was aware of at least three cars which slowed down, had a good look and then drove round me lying in the road with my bike and drove off, it being the days before mobiles I had assumed they had driven on to get help, they hadn't, it later came to light. Fortunately for me the fourth, I think, car that came along contained the local village bobby and his wife who instantly recognised me, he knew my father well having grown up together and him being in the local fire brigade. The bobby stayed with me while his wife called the ambulance....
It turned out that none of the other drivers had even called 999, as I'd thought they were doing, thinking better of stopping on a dark country lane.
The police traffic officers later worked out that I must have been laying there for over 30 minutes and the ambulance crew reckoned that another 15 minutes and they would have needed a hearse not an ambulance.
From that day on I've never walked by anything where I could help....
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>>I think I completely lost my faith in human nature yesterday and I'm hoping some of you can re-assure me it's just lorry drivers I should be disgusted with.
Given that, at its most extreme, it was lorry drivers which ignored her and lorry drivers which helped her, then as far as lorry drivers go its a wash.
Under normal circumstances people as a race seem to be a little embarrassed and threatened by incidents. I would be surprised if any of the participants looked, thought "that's a sick person" and then decided to ignore the situation.
They might not have been as proactive as one might hope, but I doubt if they were as callous as one might fear.
With no offence, it sounds like even Ian wandered across to investigate rather than being sure he was going to the aid of someone. And if he wasn't sure he was going to the aid, then they probably were not sure that they weren't.
Perhaps a learning experience along the lines of "when in doubt, check" but I'm not sure its really more than that.
Congratulations to Ian and the driver who followed him for being proactive.
As for the incidents of wino vs. businessman lying in the street [or whatever are the accurate details], then that would be called accepting the consequences of ones own behaviour.
If you dress like a scumbag then expect to be mostly regarded as a scumbag. You are free to dress how you wish, but either don't do it, or accept the consequences of doing so.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 25 Jul 14 at 19:27
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>>Typical woman driver.
I'm surprised you let that one by, Pat. Makes me wonder if sexism was to blame - "its only a woman so why bother?" sort of thing.
As a somewhat relevant point, what percentage of lorry drivers are women, would you say?
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"Walk on by" is endemic in our culture, I think. I saw a lady in a wheelchair in Milton Keynes being violently ill last week - no one stopped despite her managing to croak out "Help me, please..." every ten seconds or so.
I legged it down the street and bought a bumper pack of wet wipes and some flannels from the Mothercare there but when I got back five minutes later only one person had stopped to help. I couldn't actually stay - and the lady who did stop was no doubt infinitely more suitable to take her into the toilets for a clean up - but she was so grateful for less than ten minutes of my time and a fiver's worth of stuff, it was sad.
You hear quite regularly of dead bodies in the gutter who people assume are drunks and carefully avoid.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Fri 25 Jul 14 at 20:50
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Its clear no-one in the lorry park knew what was going on, and the only reason Ian found out was because he took a particular interest in it, being the same fleet.
To suddenly start into a loss of faith in the whole human race is a bit of an hysterical overreaction. I am 100% convinced that anyone on here would, had they realised what was going on, have gone to assist, and we are probably a good cross section of society.
And its got nothing to do with lorry drivers being special, they are just another typical cross section of society, nothing more nothing less.
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What would I have done? You can never be sure until you're in these situations.
If I saw a lone child crying in public, I wouldn't approach without grabbing someone to act as a witness. I think I might take the same approach if I saw that it was a woman in that lorry park. If she'd been attacked by someone, I wouldn't want mine to be the first face she saw as she came round. If I had the witness with me, I'd know exactly what to do - I'm a first aider. I recommend anyone do the course, because it gives you confidence in these situations. I suspect a lot of people walk on by simply because they don't know what to do.
When I was working as a van driver, I'd often pass South Mimms on my way back to base. If I found myself beginning to feel sleepy, I'd go into the lorry park and just sit there with my eyes closed for 10 or 15 minutes. In view of that, I could understand that some of the other drivers might not have noticed.
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what would edward woodward had of done { please excuse the granmar she has consumption)
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i would probably walked past.. reminds me of an old bricky mate of mine , gettin on a bit fell in a doorway in a city centre having a stroke , got kicked about a bit .. did like his pop tho
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What would you have done? - Mike Hannon
