Is it an imaginary story?
I sent mine off for renewal last month. Got it back today. Less than four weeks.
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Impression I have is that straightforward renewals from people resident in UK are going through meeting OK and meeting prescribed service standards. More of an problem for first passports and particularly those from abroad where work previously done in Embassies or at processing centres outside of UK has been taken over by the UK based offices. We renewed The Lad's a few weeks ago and got it back in around 21 calendar days.
The 'leaked' picture of applications stored in a conference room was said to be overwhelmingly of foreign cases (in orange boxes) with only a few UK files (white boxes).
Yesterday's hearing before the Home Affairs committee, with Chair Keith Vaz grandstanding and the acting C/Ex sounding shifty and evasive did little to throw light on situation.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 18 Jun 14 at 10:36
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>>
>> C/Ex sounding shifty and evasive did little to throw light on situation.
>>
I heard that this morning. He was quibbling over the meaning of the word "backlog", and trying to pretend that applications sitting in a stack were "work in progress".
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Any fule no that passport applications need to be done in good time.
OK, they need a certain level of resource but it's unreasonable for the public purse to fund massive staffing up in summer because people can't get organised.
It would be a good idea to stagger the expiry dates. Some people will still let their passports expire until they need them rather than renew on expiry, but they and people who need them at short notice can pay extra for the fast track.
"Fast-track processing fees for passport applicants who need to travel abroad urgently have been dropped, and people renewing their UK passports from overseas are being given a 12-month extension to their existing passport."
Why drop them? Put them up.
Ours were May expiry; we sent them off in early March, they came back in 10 days.
One thing certain - it will get worse before it gets better, school holidays aren't until mid-July!
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>> It would be a good idea to stagger the expiry dates. Some people will still let their passports
>> expire until they need them rather than renew on expiry
Aren't the dates effectively staggered anyway because they are 10 years from when the passport was (first) issued? When I last renewed mine, I did it in December and got the last few months added on to the new one - i.e. no need to wait until it's actually expired. It came back in 7 days.
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>> Aren't the dates effectively staggered anyway because they are 10 years from when the passport
>> was (first) issued?
Exactly - I was assuming most will have been issued in spring/summer.
Just having a free rant really:) It's pathetic the way everything turns into a catastrophe.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 18 Jun 14 at 12:45
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"most will have been issued in spring/summer."
And surely they would therefore be able to predict roughly the demand for new passports this year from the numbers issued ten years ago?
It's a bit like schools - you know what the intake at primary schools was so can roughly predict what intake at secondary schools will be a few years later.
Yes I know there will be new passport applicants and new people moving into a school's catchment but surely it can't be that difficult to predict?
Maybe I'm missing something??
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>> Maybe I'm missing something??
>>
>>
Yes.
Passport holders having the common sense to apply for a new passport well before they need it.
In other words, taking responsibility for their own actions.
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Will be interesting to see how long it takes for ours to come back. We posted 4 (3 renewals and 1 first passport) the week before last, the day before the news broke.
The payment was taken out of our account the day after they arrived (by signed for post) The first passport is still not showing as being delivered (we sent that one registered post) and Royal Mail are now looking into it, although the money was debited yesterday......
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Mrs B renewed her passport and applied for youngest's first at the same time back in April
Think hers was about 2 weeks and the new one was about 4 so in line with expectations.
Would be interested to know what the average turnaround time is. Doubt its as bad as is being portrayed
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"Passport holders having the common sense to apply for a new passport well before they need it.
In other words, taking responsibility for their own actions"
That doesn't answer the question of why Passport Office couldn't predict the demand at this time based on past records.
Also, I wonder how many of these applicants had a break at Easter and are having another shortly?
So when do you apply?
I renewed mine recently (April) - had a new one at same time of year every 10 years since 1964. Surely they must have known that I, and thousands of others, would require renewal at this time? And that this time of year is busiest - just go back 10 years and have a look at the demand?
Going from passport Office website it said that Passports would be issued in 3 weeks. In the event it took those 3 weeks exactly. Mrs W renewed hers in January - was back in a week.
All I am saying is that the Passport Office ought to be able to predict almost exactly what demand is at any moment.
Also, why is the delay 3 weeks?
Put some extra hours/people in and catch up - how long does it actually take for 90% of passports to be processed? One working day - look at old passport, issue new one, stick new photo in, print it, post it back.
Could be done in a day or two - why the backlog? Why not try to do away with backlog?
Perhaps I am really missing a lot ;-)
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>> That doesn't answer the question of why Passport Office couldn't predict the demand at this
>> time based on past records.
I thought they had stated that there were 350K more applications than they received in the same period last year?
I wonder if the poor state of the economy led people to let them lapse and now people are renewing?
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I understand the main difference is that new passports are no longer issued at embassies.. increased UK workload by about 420,000... estimated 320,000...
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>> "Passport holders having the common sense to apply for a new passport well before they
>> need it.
>> In other words, taking responsibility for their own actions"
>>
>> That doesn't answer the question of why Passport Office couldn't predict the demand at this
>> time based on past records.
But that's same principle as 'everybody travels on Maundy Thursday'. You wouldn't expect there to be an M1(bis) just for Bank Holidays would you? The passport office can anticipate that surge to a degree and, for example, restrict staff holidays in May/June. Agency staff can be employed to do basic paper shuffling but they're not qualified to make decisions on who does/does not get a UK passport and if they were they'd have the Mail on their case soon enough if they got it wrong.
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"But that's same principle as 'everybody travels on Maundy Thursday'. You wouldn't expect there to be an M1(bis) just for Bank Holidays would you?"
I take your point Brompt but there is a slight difference between building a new motorway for Maundy Thurs and the passport Office putting in a few extra hours or a few more staff for a while to cut the 3 week minimum waiting time to a few days.
There are plenty of businesses that anticipate/predict surges in demand - Chunnel, Airlines, rail companies, car manufacturers (March/Sept), B&B/Hotels, Easter Egg makers etc. Passport Office is like a Christmas Card producer who says they didn't realise there would be a surge in demand at a certain time of year!!
I applied for a new tax disc for car the other day and got an immediate email telling me it would be in the post and with me in 5 days. When I rang the passport office to enquire after my passport they said they could not tell me when it would be processed and with me, " it is with the printers" they said "don't know how long it will take".
If they can do a tax disc in a few days, why not a passport? (Yes, I realise it's a booklet thing with photo rather than a piece of paper, but I bet it goes into a similar instant machine)
Now, with modern technology, how long does it take to process and print a passport for an old git who has renewed his passport every 10 years for the last 50 years? Renewing my passport is " basic paper shuffling ". And they should have known I was likely to renew it - tax disc people sent me a reminder that it was due - why not passport office?
What about FM's case?
Bet William Hague, Cameron, Prince Charlie and co don't have to wait 3 weeks minimum!
And still no answer to the minimum 3 week waiting time - why 3 weeks? Why not one week?
By the way, I applied for my new passport in good time and got it in good time (3 weeks) so no prob.
P
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While he is PM Mr Cameron does not need a passport. One of the first things they do on attaining the office is surrender their passports. Then they write the special letters for our ballistic submarine captains.
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>>Passport holders having the common sense to apply for a new passport well before they
>>need it.
>
>In other words, taking responsibility for their own actions.
I live abroad.
My passport expires in 15 months.
When I apply, it will take 2 - 5 months and I will not be able to travel in that time.
My parents are in their 80s and 8,000 miles away and not in great health.
Until November it took 3 weeks to renew a passport at the Embassy.
Can you guess what I'm thinking?
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Not sure what you're thinking but I'd suggest renewing it early for sure during a quiet time for passport renewals, e.g. the winter.
I know of someone who sent their passport off for renewal in April... still waiting. They live in the Manchester area so a UK resident.
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>>I know of someone who sent their passport off for renewal in April... still waiting.
Oh dear, do they know about the tracking website: www.gov.uk/track-passport-application ?
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Not sure they do - I'll let them know thanks.
They're not panicking or in a rush for it thankfully.
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I'll add that when I checked SWMBO's and mine, they had no record of mine, but said SWMBO's was being processed. I'd sent them both off in one envelope, with one cheque!
I thought this could be interesting, until they both turned up this morning!
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Because of the nature of my employment, 20 years ago, I needed to have two passports. These circumstances have now ceased on my retirement, but I still have two passports, I find it convenient. Clearly the computer is not that clever, it doesn't query the fact that I have 2 passports, they are renewed with question, and I exercise the system, from time to time, by going out of the country on one of them and coming back in on the other. No queries raised at any time.
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Knowing that Mrs H would be going to Australia in April, and that our passports expired in February, we sent them for renewal last October. They came back after about a week.
We are incredibly sensible and boring!
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We renewed our passports at the UK Embassy in Madrid, before the Passport Agency took over.
It was horrendously expensive - circa 180 Euros including messengering them back to us (no one really trusts Correos!)
The reason for the large cost was given that the Embassy was obliged to charge an economic price and there were no economies of scale to reduce the price.
Why does the UK government outsource vital and more or less compulsory things like passports and driving licences to blooming profit driven "Agencies"?
The Spanish themselves, pay nominal amounts both for driving licences and passports and were astounded at the UK costs.
Last edited by: Roger. on Thu 19 Jun 14 at 10:07
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It's great, Europe, isn't it Rog? Maybe we should have them running bits and pieces of governance and admin for us, eh?
:-)
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Passports in UK is a govt money pot- bulk of passports are renewals -easy processing, 100 gbp for a few pieces of paper.
1st time passports are a minefield of false claims, fraud etc etc.
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The Passport Agency, like DVLA, works with commercial IT/service partners but is an arm's length body of govt, not a commercial outfit. It should cover its running costs from fees - why should the taxpayer subsidise passports for those in a position to afford foreign travel?
Agency status began in Thatcher/Major years and was intended to allow a degree of managerial freedom for service bodies. In practice that's been eroded over the years and fashion now (qv UK Borders) is to bring this back into the range of the firm smack of Ministerial control.
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I am basically a free market supporter and and advocate of very "small government", but I do believe that there is a case for some things being under state control.
Amongst these, I think, are those basic utilities without which modern life would be all but impossible.
I cannot agree that, for instance, our energy needs are virtually all under the control of foreign firms, whose interests (or their government's) are not necessarily beneficial to the UK.
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State control for basic industries worked very well. I recall nuclear power "being so cheap to make it could be free"..
And trade unions thought frequent strikes were a way of utilising political power...
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Passport delays - Bromptonaut
