www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-27760963
Essentially homeless people sleeping in doorways disliked by the owners of the doorways who are installing lumps of metal to stop them.
I must admit I can see no reason why the owners of doorways should not take any step they wish to stop people sleeping on their property if they wish to do so. I would probably do so myself, if I'm honest.
However, rather than blaming those people, why does nobody look further?
Why are there homeless?
I was homeless for a few months a long time ago and it was a miserable existence. But it is one that it is possible to get used, become accepting of, and then not have sufficient motivation to change. And there was no societal or welfare reason for me to be homeless, it was a situation entirely of my own making.
But surely there is money and accommodation available for today's homeless? Albeit not very much and not very pleasant. Does it take more than being willing to change and putting effort in to change?
Rather than blaming the doorway owners, which I do not, we should be working out what is causing these people to live in the streets and trying to address those issues, rather than accepting them being in the streets and worrying about available doorways.
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Boris Johnston has decreed that the spikes should be removed ASAP, soon doorway owners will be required to provide bedding and morning tea! - and also be fined if they do not clean up any urine or other deposits left as a sign of Thanks!
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>> soon doorway owners will
>> be required to provide bedding and morning tea! -
>>
In the past we had problems at work with someone sleeping in the doorway entrance to the public shopping section. One morning I came in early and he was still there. I told him we couldn't have this going on, we needed to open up, and he must find somewhere else.
While he was packing up his stuff I fetched him a cup of tea and gave him my sandwiches.
We parted amically, at least he never came back.
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>> Why are there homeless?
>> But surely there is money and accommodation available for today's homeless? Albeit not very much
>> and not very pleasant. Does it take more than being willing to change and putting
>> effort in to change?
>>
>> Rather than blaming the doorway owners, which I do not, we should be working out
>> what is causing these people to live in the streets and trying to address those
>> issues, rather than accepting them being in the streets and worrying about available doorways.
>>
There are plenty of places homeless people can go to in this country ... but, not if you are as ripped as a stoat or drugged up or unnecessarily aggressive, etc.
So those with drink/drug issues and/or mental health problems are somewhat on their own.
Which is a fair chunk of those that sleep in doorways, with the odd sprinkling of those that really cannot/will not stick to any rules.
Strangely enough we used to have asylums ...and some of the people in them weren't that mad ...so it was deemed unnecessary and unpleasant for them to have to reside there ...so they were all closed...and now?
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I tend to think that Westpig is correct;
1) Drink/Drug issues
2) Mental health issues
3) Don't want to do anything else
Now, I couldn't give a flying fig for number 3). Its their right to do what they wish, and its my right to prevent them sleeping on my property, and I'm certainly not willingly pushing any aid in their direction.
With 1) my sympathy is limited too. Help should be free and readily available, but if they don't want to take it, and they shouldn't have to, then they are entering into group 3) so I don't much care about them either.
I do have a fair chunk of sympathy for the genuine occupants of 2) though. And where is there for them to be cared for? And what do we do if they don't want to be cared for?
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I regret to say that a %age of those who sleep rough or are homeless are ex-military. They come out of a shortish spell of service and having to work hard and have everything provided plus the family ethos of an Army unit, in particular, leaves them very disadvantaged if they don't get a good resettlement package and intro to civilian life. If they joined up straight from school/home it can be quite a shock.
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"I do have a fair chunk of sympathy for the genuine occupants of 2) though. "
Ah yes, this'll be where 'Care in the community' comes in - I remember being very cynical about it when politicians were trumpeting about it as a new dawn.
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NoFM: Why are there homeless?
WP: There are plenty of places homeless people can go to in this country...
My impression is that there aren't, or not nearly so many. In the Major 1990s I used to find it upsetting to visit London, especially the South Bank Centre, because it was such an uncomfortable reminder of the unequal society we'd become. Very early in Blair's first term, the rough sleepers practically disappeared - or so it seemed to me; Blair may not have done enough elsewhere to reduce inequality but I think he got that one right.
Then, within months of the Tories' non-victory in 2010, they were back. It's a subjective impression, I know, and a crude representation of the difference between the two parties, but it does sum up my objection to the post-Thatcher Conservative outlook, that it regards removing basic services that society's most vulnerable members depend on is an acceptable way to reduce the taxes of the wealthy.
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Exactly my feelings too WdeB but put a lot better than I could have put it.
My comment yesterday about 'scathing' comments came out appearing to mean something I didn't mean at all, so if I have time today I'll try to put it right:)
No problems from me Bobby G.
Pat
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>>
Ah yes, this'll be where 'Care in the community' comes in - I remember being very cynical about it when politicians were trumpeting about it as a new dawn.
What I am about to say I may be shot down in flames but here goes.
I have a relative who has mental health issues which she has had since mid teens. has seen every specialist going, been in and out of Priory , been on every new program going and she is just not getting any better. A few failed suicide attempts, child taken off her, family are at their wits end.
Many years ago there were psychiatric hospitals where all the "loonies" (and that is the term that was used at the time) were locked up and basically, well locked up and sort of looked after.
Of course that is the wrong thing to do in this day and age so instead members of my family have had to give up jobs because they have been off so many times due to receiving phone calls saying your daughter has jumped off a bridge, or she is out with her kid spaced out or has been arrested. They never know from one day to the next what mood she will be in. She has now been sectioned I think 3 times but on each occasion was able to convince everyone she was sorry and wouldn't do it again etc.
Its a horrible thing to say but see if there was somewhere now that this relative could be looked after, there is a whole family there that would be able to get back to having a normal life.
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>> I may be shot down in flames
Not by me, I know people who have been exactly there. Its an awful situation, but the well being of the entire family must be considered, not only the obvious one.
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Nor by me! I have a relative who has scrambled their brain with skunk and LSD and is a joyless burden on the lives of all his relatives.
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>> I tend to think that Westpig is correct;
>>
>> 1) Drink/Drug issues
>> 2) Mental health issues
>> 3) Don't want to do anything else
More a Venn diagram than three groups.
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>>More a Venn diagram than three groups.
Yes. But if one regards most people as mostly in one circle, which I think is mostly true, then I'd mostly stand by my comments.
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Mark,
I was looking to advance the discussion rather than nit pick. Without getting tied up in cause v effect there's a huge overlap between Mental Health and Drugs/Alcohol.
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Simon,
Didn't take it as a nitpick.
Consider the overlap you mention Drugs/Alcohol & Mental Health Issues.
The ones that bother me, in truth the *only* ones I am concerned for, are those with mental health issues.
If one subtracts the D/A that take the available help, then remaining one has the idiots who are part of group 3) (and who cares about them) and the ill which will be incorporated into group 2).
So my question remains, one does one do with the ones who do not wish to be cared for and would rather live on the streets, even if I believe that is a bad/wrong decision?
Is compulsory incarceration emotionally better than living on the streets? No doubt its more comfortable, but is it better?
I also consider it interesting that the media, and seemingly sufficient of their readers, have no interest in the wider problem and just prefer to be outraged by the cold-hearted spikes.
I wonder if the Dear Reader would have the same attitude if an otherwise homeless person parked their transit van and caravan on land owned by said reader?
These days we are mostly outraged with the actions of others whilst being perfectly comfortable with our own.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 9 Jun 14 at 20:50
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There's no need for people to be homeless. There are plenty of charities - which are state funded - that will give you a bed. www.nosecondnightout.org.uk/
People sometimes sleep in my doorway. Much as I'd like to give them a cup of tea and a bacon sandwich, one can be pretty certain that they'd keep on coming back and bring their friends. So I'm afraid I bang on the window and they scarper.
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>>You can contact us 24/7 to let us know about someone sleeping rough in London now.
Do you do this?
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Remember there is a big difference between homeless and nowhere to sleep.
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Homeless in doorways - devonite
