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Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 19 May 14 at 10:17
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UKIP remind me of Russ Perot's campaign for the US presidency in the 1990s..He gained lots of support from people fed up with conventional politics. In the end he achieved nothing. I suspect Mr Farage is not as pig headed..as Perot was. (He threw away a poll lead..by ignoring the advice of his campaign advisers..)
Last edited by: madf on Thu 8 May 14 at 22:24
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"Sometimes though only the Guardian or minor sources will carry a story at all. The mainly right wing press ignore stuff that doesn't suit their narrative"
...and equally so the Left wing press do likewise on stuff they agree with
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No arguments - Nigel Farage OWNED the panel on #BBCQT tonight!
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I was going to use "pwned", but thought that might be too esoteric for you lot!
Pwn is a leetspeak slang term derived from the verb own, as meaning to appropriate or to conquer to gain ownership. The term implies domination or humiliation of a rival, used primarily in the Internet-based video game culture to taunt an opponent who has just been soundly defeated. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PWNED
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Oh Roger, at this rate all your base are belong to us.
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It was certainly interesting that the others seemed intent on talking over Nigel, it didnt come across especially well and the audience seemed pretty supportive.
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>> It was certainly interesting that the others seemed intent on talking over Nigel, it didnt
>> come across especially well and the audience seemed pretty supportive.
>>
>>
>>
tinyurl.com/n54yq52
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>> ...and equally so the Left wing press do likewise on stuff they agree with
>>
I wasn't making a yah-boo point so much as one about media diversity. The UK press is overwhelmingly conservative.
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BBCQT last night:
Grant Shapps - never gave a straight answer to a question. Out of his depth.
Shirley Williams - blathered on and seemed, well, just past it.
Caroline Lucas - mad Green, camouflaging her hard left politics by quoting little but environmental matters (Greens are like watermelons - green on the outside deepest Trotskyite red on the inside).
Chukka Umanna - actually the best speaker of the left persuasion on the panel but always comes across as so superior and condescending to the "little people" i.e most of us!
Nigel Farage. (I'm biassed, of course!) came across as actually believing in what he said, answered questions (Astra-Zeneca/Pfizer for example) and had an unusual (for the Beeb) amount of support in the audience.
Last edited by: Roger. on Fri 9 May 14 at 10:10
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>>Caroline Lucas - mad Green, camouflaging her hard left politics by quoting little but environmental matters (Greens are like watermelons - green on the outside deepest Trotskyite red on the inside).
I thought she was a good chinwagger, and gave a very good account of herself, pity she doesn't metamorphosize into a Kipper.
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Another day, another BBC program!
We went to the BBC Any Questions broadcast, from Worksop College, tonight. (Nice school!)
Unfortunately the acoustics of the College Great Hall (very high ceiling) were so terrible I could hear neither the questions, nor the answers. :-(
The BBC had just four, small, audience facing, loudspeakers for the audience.
Disappointing for "The World's Favourite Broadcaster".
Last edited by: Roger. on Fri 9 May 14 at 22:22
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If the BBC didn't (couldn't?) mitigate the bad acoustics I can understand the frustration of those in the audience who couldn't hear.
OTOH, if you struggled to follow are you sure kipperman OWNED the debate?
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No idea- will have to listen to the repeat!
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Roger,
Sorry I mixed your comments about QT with those on Any Questions and drew a false conclusion.
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Absolutely no problem :-)
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I thought Paul Nuttall gave a good account of himself on QT (for a scouser)
That Australian bint didn't do a lot for me though, enough to turn me 'the other way', almost.
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>>That Australian bint didn't do a lot for me though, enough to turn me 'the other way', almost. <<
Natalie " The world is coming to an end " Bennett? I think I prefer her to Caroline Lucas although that doesnt set the bar high. I have met one Green I liked, Richard Mallender, nice bloke and not at all full of himself, doesnt preach like most of them do.
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>>Natalie " The world is coming to an end " Bennett?
That's the one, I'm not familiar with any of the Green party members really but I warmed to Lucas on QT but felt quite the opposite toward Bennett on Any Questions.
Last edited by: Arjades on Sat 10 May 14 at 15:28
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The police increasingly seem to think they have the power to require people to "take things down".
They should stick to particulars.
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>> The police increasingly seem to think they have the power to require people to "take
>> things down".
>> They should stick to particulars.
Analogous to their demands to delete photographs. They should be challenged vigorously at every attempt.
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Cambridgeshire Police say they did not ask Abberton to delete any tweets but you will have to take their word vs a politically motivated activist...
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No doubt the police will therefore incarcerate all members of the Police Federation who are politically motivated and liars. :-)
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Huge furor, mud slinging, accusations of goodness knows what, grandstanding from various puerile Councillors and other politicians etc. etc.
And what of the person to whom this heinous crime was done?
"Mr Abberton, meanwhile, seems unconcerned by the controversy – welcoming the huge number of hits it has brought to his blog."
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It's in the Guardian now. I fully predict a week of discussion about privacy laws in the media, and I'll just invoke Godwin now to get it out of the way here.
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Mr Abberton talks about the absolute right to free speech. He needs to think about it a bit more.
There is no such thing, and nor should there be.
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>> Mr Abberton talks about the absolute right to free speech. He needs to think about
>> it a bit more.
>>
>> There is no such thing, and nor should there be.
>>
I don't think you should be allowed to say that.
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www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Cambridge-blogger-Michael-Abberton-Police-attempts-to-silence-me-over-UKIP-tweet-have-backfired-catastrophically-20140514062500.htm
Actually I don't know why I'm linking this (although I'll leave it now) as anyone interested will be following it themselves anyway. However, tis done. No more.
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>>A rather different view from inside the party to that which Farage is trying to promote.<<
It is also a single view.
Here is another:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtu1PaJ6uVY&list=UUo7RR0AxWN5Qb4drQBZbz6A
I know one of the members who was on stage during the speech Farage gave at this event and that person would not stand for racism, end of, but they recognise how difficult it is to tackle it with 100% success, they also reported that it was an extremely positive event.
The frustration for members like me who have no time for these idiots is ongoing but I do have confidence that the party is as frustrated as I am and are going to implement further measures to tackle the issue.
UKIP members and especially senior activists are under intense pressure at the moment, it doesnt suprise me that a few will not be able to stand the heat, it can be very personal: www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/13/ukip-mep-gerard-batten-home-attacked
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"It is also a single view."
But a significant one I would suggest. UKIP can't have it both ways. Farage can't surround himself with a handful of ethnic minority supporters and claim it proves they are non racist and ignore someone who has the temerity to say what she sees inside the party.
It's OK keep blaming the idiots but there do seems to be rather a lot of them
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>>But a significant one I would suggest. UKIP can't have it both ways. Farage can't surround himself with a handful of ethnic minority supporters and claim it proves they are non racist and ignore someone who has the temerity to say what she sees inside the party.<<
I dont think it is a case of ignoring what she says, the problems that have arisen are well known and acknowledged. I would question just how much she can actually 'see' from the position she was in, I would suggest that grassroots activists like Roger and myself are far more in touch with what is going on at local level ( which is where these issues have arisen ) than she would have been.
I dont think there are that many idiots at all, no more than average, we do get above average media coverage on them though.
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"I would question just how much she can actually 'see' from the position she was in."
She can clearly see the implied message in the UKIP election posters.
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>> "I would question just how much she can actually 'see' from the position she
>> was in."
>>
>> She can clearly see the implied message in the UKIP election posters.
There was a skit on The Now Show on Friday.
Gist of it was:
- Nigel Farage is not a racist
- An open can of coke is not a wasp
But look what gather round both.....
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>> The frustration for members like me who have no time for these idiots is ongoing
>> but I do have confidence that the party is as frustrated as I am and
>> are going to implement further measures to tackle the issue.
Stu, by idiots do you mean the lady who has resigned, or the ones who come out with the racist-sounding clangers?
Do you disagree that the UKIP flyer could be designed to appeal to the less fragrant kind of nationalists, racists etc.?
I wouldn't expect a party, however racist, to declare it in so many words and UKIP's denials are IMO of little value while it is producing material like that.
That's an honest opinion from somebody who tries to keep an open mind.
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>>Stu, by idiots do you mean the lady who has resigned, or the ones who come out with the racist-sounding clangers?
Do you disagree that the UKIP flyer could be designed to appeal to the less fragrant kind of nationalists, racists etc.? <<
The second one, Sanya is alright in my book but I think she is not looking at the bigger, longer term picture.
I dont believe that the posters were designed to appeal to racists, not at all and they go hand in hand with Farage making the case for how the current system disadvantages well educated non-EU immigrants who want to come here and face a far harsher entry requirement. UKIP make both sides of the argument but only one gets reported - if UKIP were going after the racist vote, do you think Nigel would be arguing that we dont disadvantage Indian immigrants, a point he has made many times? Hardly going to like that are they?
Since the posters are against uncontrolled EU immigration only, hands up who can identify exactly what the EU 'race' is? We are a multi-ethnic country and the EU is a multi-ethnic continent, race has nothing to do with it and jumping to that conclusion is just lazy, but predictable.
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>> Since the posters are against uncontrolled EU immigration only, hands up who can identify exactly
>> what the EU 'race' is? We are a multi-ethnic country and the EU is a
>> multi-ethnic continent, race has nothing to do with it and jumping to that conclusion is
>> just lazy, but predictable.
I apologise for using the term 'racist' rather loosely - I included the vehement opposition to eastern europeans, e.g. Poles, Bulgarians, Romanians etc. The kneejerk racists don't stop to think about race in exact terms - they conflate all categories of 'immigrants".
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>>I apologise for using the term 'racist' rather loosely - I included the vehement opposition to eastern europeans, e.g. Poles, Bulgarians, Romanians etc. The kneejerk racists don't stop to think about race in exact terms - they conflate all categories of 'immigrants".<<
I dont think racists think in any rational terms, that is why I dont worry much about what they do and dont do, if a racist votes UKIP because they think we will close the borders or some other nonsense then they do so in ignorance, which rather fits the stereotype really.
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It is illuminating that these attacks, verbal, written and now physical, against both the party and its members, have really only escalated since UKIP started to gain support from former Labour voters.
The Hope not Hate & UAF ranks are full of extreme left wing operators who disguise their hard political agenda behind the sweet reasonableness of "anti-fascism"& "anti-racism" without really understanding that their own actions are synonymous with those attributes!
(Rather like the Green party, whose outward veneer of concern for the environment is designed to fool concerned people into missing the fact that their non-environmental policies are Marxist through and through.)
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Well...I've just posted our voting slips off...and for the first time in my voting life I've voted for someone other than Tory.
I'm not quite a 'kipper', it's a protest vote if I'm honest.. but I suppose you'll take what you get.
Interestingly, Mrs W did likewise and she's not as politically aware as I am and has little interest in it all. Very much her own decision though.
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There was a bit of a scandal in Wales resulting in the resignation of some pen-pusher in the Electoral Office...Britain First is fielding a candidate and on the ballot papers under their logo appears the words "Remember Lee Rigby".
I voted for Plaid Cymru - they have a SEL as a leader but the local candidates appear to be decent enough people.
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"it's a protest vote if I'm honest"
Similar here, but I wouldn't worry about being a 'protest' voter. I suspect that most votes cast in any political election are as much protest against one party as much as a positive vote for the other. My parents loathed the Tories as much as they approved of Labour.
At least, with a 'protest' vote, the elector is putting more thought into the process than the millions who would blindly vote for a goat if it wore a rosette of the appropriate colour - regardless of what it bleated.
Maybe if more people protest-voted, the message would get through.
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>> Maybe if more people protest-voted, the message would get through.
>>
Maybe if people really realised UKIP don't have any policies apart from their pet issue, they wouldn't fancy protest voting quite so much.
It's pointless. Remember when Le Pen's party ended up in a run-off for the Presidency due to protest voting? They were annihilated as soon as people realised the lunatics might actually take over the asylum.
It is said that Lib Dems have been the beneficiaries of protest voting in the past. Well, fat lot of good that's done of changing the nature of the big two parties.
Study the manifestos, then vote for whichever one matches your opinion the closest (NOTE: none will match your thoughts and desires precisely unless you stand yourself). No need for any other considerations, really.
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"Study the manifestos,"
Why, thank you - I never thought of that!
;-)
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>> "Study the manifestos,"
>>
>> Why, thank you - I never thought of that!
>>
>> ;-)
>>
UKIP voters don't have to, they haven't got one. So I did think the concept would be novel to some posters on here.
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>>Study the manifestos, then vote for whichever one matches your opinion the closest No need for any other considerations, really.
I'd qualify that statement to:
Study the manifestos, then vote for whichever one you believe can/will deliver the pledges closest to your opinion.
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"I'd qualify that statement to:"
Actually, a better bet might be to study their previous manifestos and see how much was carried out and/or how well it was carried out.
This could be largely what gives rise to the protest vote. It's based on the 'Fool me once - shame on you; fool me twice - shame on me' principle.
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>> Maybe if people really realised UKIP don't have any policies apart from their pet issue,
>> they wouldn't fancy protest voting quite so much.
Firstly, It's my voting choice, so I'll make my own mind up.
Secondly, If all the mainstream parties choose to ignore the electorate on some issues e.g Europe.... then a protest vote can help to focus their minds... which is why I have done it.
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>> Secondly, If all the mainstream parties choose to ignore the electorate on some issues e.g
>> Europe.... then a protest vote can help to focus their minds... which is why I
>> have done it.
>>
How do you work out they've been ignoring the electorate on Europe when we've consistently voted for pro-EU governments? They (governments) have done what we've voted for on Europe. Don't remember William Hague's anti-EU election campaign being too succesful. It's the Daily Mail that's being ignored, not the electorate.
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>> How do you work out they've been ignoring the electorate on Europe when we've consistently
>> voted for pro-EU governments? They (governments) have done what we've voted for on Europe. Don't
>> remember William Hague's anti-EU election campaign being too succesful. It's the Daily Mail that's being
>> ignored, not the electorate.
>>
That's true pro EU have been elected, but I'd say it would incorrect to conclude from that most people are pro EU. Parties have all sorts of issues. It's not on the top of the list, but a persistant concern would be a good way to describe it.
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>> www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/13/british-asian-ukip-supporter-quits-party-racist-populism-sanya-jeet-thandi
>>
>> A rather different view from inside the party to that which Farage is trying to
>> promote.
I agree with her.
I don't say that UKIP is racist, but I do say they know how to make their policies appeal to racists and in their generic election flyer they have gone too far - I found it positively off-putting, cynical and one-dimensional.
(I described that here - www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=17131&m=382275 )
That's not about what a small minority or fruitcakes spout, or the eagerness of the press to pounce on every anti-UKIP story - it's about something that has dropped in 25m households and must have been signed off at national level.
The Conservative flyer has just dropped as I wrote that. Quote -
What we will do
Britain needs people in Brussels who will stand up for our national interest.
We stand for a new relationship with the EU, bringing power back to Britian and away from Brussels:
KEEPING OUR BORDER CONTROLS AND CRACKING DOWN ON BENEFIT TOURISM
SECURING MORE TRADE, NOT JUST AN 'EVER CLOSER UNION'
TAKING BACK CONTROL OF JUSTICE AND HOME AFFAIRS
GETTING A BETTER DEAL FOR BRITISH TAXPAYERS BY CUTTING THE COST OF EUROPE
AND THEN YOU GET THE FINAL DECSION ON BRITAIN'S MEMBERSHIP OF THE EU AT AN IN/OUT REFERENDUM BY THE END OF 2017
They seem to have gone as far as they dare down the same route, they must be terrified of UKIP and losing the racist electorate (of which there are many, and I don't mean the sort of people here that Alanovic referred to the other day, I mean proper ones).
I can't wait for Labour's effort.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 14 May 14 at 10:50
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Sometimes those who are less overt or explicit in their postulations are the most dangerous kind.
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Not as dangerous as those who address mass open-air rallies, work themselves into a rage, froth at the mouth, and then go home and have tea and cakes with the mistress.
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Farage? I expect those cakes for the mistress come out of his EU expenses, too.
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>> Sometimes those who are less overt or explicit in their postulations are the most dangerous
>> kind.
Is that a recommendation for UKIP?
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UKIP's Asian mascot has dealt the party a low and hard blow. Whatever her reasons apart from the truth of her allegations - a broken political half-promise seems more than likely to me - they must be quite urgent to unleash such hellish fury.
But that's politics sometimes innit? There's an ugly spirit abroad at the moment.
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Plagiarise with pride as my former boss said......
What's really shocking about this is that Ms Thandi had been studying at the LSE for three years before she discovered that UKIP has been "exploiting the stupidity of ignorant anti-immigrant voters".
Standards at that old hot house of student revolution must be slipping. I blame Michael Gove *.
* OK, strictly speaking David Willetts is in charge of higher education - but I still blame Gove
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What happened to all the Bulgomanians UKIP told us would flood in after January?
Turns out there are now 4000 less of them......
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Having secured publicity and the right credentials, I wonder which party she will now join?
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Who knows, perhaps she wont join another party, defecting never looks that principled, better to stay out of it for a while and come back re-invented. Still, plenty more keen young people in the ranks: www.youngindependence.org.uk/about/council
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To be fair, we in UKIP have trumpeted aloud other party members defecting to us, so we can hardly complain if this young lady is defecting to the Guardian - conveniently having an article ready to go and calculated to appear nicely in time for the elections.
Still, I'm sure we will bravely struggle on without her :-)
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Indeed we will struggle on. Did you see Annette Reid speaking at the Westminster event recently? I have to say I became a fan after seeing her speak, Sanya who....?
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Bit of a sad bunch though aren't t they? Where,s the desire to overthrow the ruling classes or save the planet . You shouldn't be worrying about EU immigration quotas when you are 19. Why aren't they all in rock bands?
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Thu 15 May 14 at 09:47
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One yoof supporter on Stu's link says... "The low tax and no state interference ideologies drew me to UKIP, with ideas of controlling immigration and no foreign wars"
No tax, rules, foreigners or war? Well that's sorted the country.
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LOW tax - not no tax. CONTROLLING immigration - not no immigration. FEWER rules - not no rules.
No wars ? I'd say no wars which involve us in attempts to be the world's policeperson
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Let's hope they don't get too all-powerful in this country, eh?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27424064
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Dictatorial regime in part of world that's been torn by civil war for 30yrs, faced with marriage across conflict lines, uses religion as a tool of oppression.
Ooodathortit.
A bit further south in Africa we had The Lord's Resistance Army using a heady mix of Christian and local theology to justify its outrages.
Do we really believe that either has much relevance to what happens in a mature tolerant and multi-cultural democracy?
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"Do we really believe that either has much relevance to what happens in a mature tolerant and multi-cultural democracy?
It just happens that citizens of a mature democracy are being shipped back out of Kenya; no doubt due to rampaging atheists, eh, Bromo? So yes - it does have relevance.
BTW - I don't think much of bonkers christians either.
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I must have missed the Newsnight feature on this story.
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-liberal-councillor-steve-radford-7122909
Cllr Radford said: “This absolutely outrageous behaviour has been going on for two years and yet here he is going out handing out leaflets.
“What responsible political party would have someone like this doing that? They’ve had the chance to deal with it for two years.
“Had it been someone from UKIP saying these kinds of things, you would have had Labour up in arms over it.
“It makes a mockery of Labour’s anti-homophobia position.”
For once I agree with the Lib Dem.
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Nigel Farridge (as James O'Brian calls him) on LBC @ 11.30am ... should be interesting!
www.lbc.co.uk/
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Sounds like the interview got cut short by UKIP's Press Officer who intervened before the end just as things were getting juicy, I think the whole thing is available as a Podcast & Video.
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>> It just happens that citizens of a mature democracy are being shipped back out of
>> Kenya; no doubt due to rampaging atheists, eh, Bromo? So yes - it does have
>> relevance.
Al Shabaab is a product of the decades of mayhem in Somalia. How the place got onto that state is another question although superpower meddling during the Cold War era played a big part.
We're talking Horn of Africa southwards here; presence of Islam, and organisations justifying their actions by it is in same 'oodathortit' territory as my previous post. Although Al-Shabaab headlines its Islamic credentials the foot soldiers are (at least according to Wiki) much more motivated by local ethnic/territorial disputes. I suspect it's that local aspect across a long and insecure border that has seen action spread into NE Kenya. The area from which holidaymakers have been evacuated was close to the action before the punters booked. If you holiday near a trouble spot it shouldn't be a complete shock to find yourselves needing evacuation when the ante is upped.
No relevance at all to domestic Islam in our liberal and tolerant democracy.
Some returnees were quite unhappy, accusing the holiday companies of over interpreting FCO advice as both resort and Mombasa airport were outwith the area where no-go advice applied.
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>> No relevance at all to domestic Islam in our liberal and tolerant democracy.
Not everybody in our liberal and tolerant democracy is liberal and tolerant, or will necessarily remain so.
Tolerance means live and let live, not adopting other customs yourself willy nilly.
I don't know why you simply will not acknowledge the wider point even if you disagree with it.
You can also have a debate about whether we should even keep Christian holidays - or redesignate them now if you want to be clear that no one religion sets the agenda for the country. The furore that would cause would be less than the one that could arise in the future when other religions grow and demand proportionate treatment.
Even Price Charles recognises that we cannot easily continue to be a nominally solely Christian country, in his own novel way.
goo.gl/e9xnBF
We could now have the best opportunity we will ever get to detach church(es) from state.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 17 May 14 at 12:07
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>> the best opportunity we will ever get to detach church(es) from state.
I find that a bit disappointing coming from a person who nearly always seems rational.
I repeat:
Nothing will make a state, country or nation anything but absurd and eccentric. Trying to make one rational by abolishing monarchy, religion etc is an enterprise doomed to utter failure.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Feel as embarrassed as you like if you are that sort of unsophisticated wimp, but leave well alone. All constitutional change has unpredictable knock-on effects.
This passion for random tinkering is normally found in politicians of every stripe, and very annoying it is in their case (not in yours of course Dugong).
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You might be right AC, though I'm not trying to banish religion at all, which would lead to no end of wailing and teeth gnashing.
It is though rather incongruous in what we want to be an enlightened and tolerant age to have one religion sponsored by the state, and to require the monarch to be an Anglican communicant. That will surely lead to trouble, eventually.
I'm sure there's an argument, as with monarchy itself, that Establishment is less important for the power it confers on Anglicanism that for the power it denies to other religions, but I don't see the other faiths meekly accepting their place outside the pale indefinitely.
I believe the ban on the monarch being married to a Catholic is in the process of being removed, but I have no idea if that confers the right for HM to be married to a muslim, hindu, buddhist, quaker etc.
Charlie's idea seemed to be to make the religious aspects of coronation for example inclusive of all faiths/deities. I don't think he's thought that one through; the arguments will follow about where the line is drawn in relation to atheists, seventh-day-adventists, moonies, scientologists, and jedi knights at the very least. Far simpler to remove it or make it completely unspecific. ( I hasten to say I haven't actually revisited Charles's proposals before writing that so I may be a bit hard on him. Maybe he's just trying to get the ball in play).
Of course it wouldn't do for the Powers That Be to come straight out with anything like this, this sort of thing needs to be kicked around a bit and people need to be shown something worse before they embrace change. What we consultants call 'socialising the idea'.
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I know you weren't wanting to abolish religion Manatee but just to disestablish the church (Nick Clegg agrees).
The Prince of Wales seems well-meaning. He would like ceremonies with a religious component taking place around the monarchy to reflect the diversity of religions present in modern Britain. Nothing wrong with that at all. I doubt if he wants any jedi knight or similar elements to be taken into account. There are religions, and then there are minority cults whose standing as religions is debatable, like the egregious Scientologists.
Baptists and Muslims are fine, and there are a lot of polytheists in the country too, mainly Hindu Indians and Iranians who are now Shi'a Muslims but whose very ancient (Persian) traditions are polytheist, rationalised in the 7th century BC by the religious philosopher Zoroaster into three forces: positive, negative and governing wisdom.
Some odd Christian cults are also present in Iran, although one may doubt that they are left alone by the authorities.
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I do wonder whether these are people who voted Labour at some point, stopped voting and have now come over to us, so it is possible that we are gaining support from alienated ex-Labour voters who gave up on the party pre-2010. I get that impression from talking to voters although I never press them on who they supported before.
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>>
>> I believe the ban on the monarch being married to a Catholic is in the
>> process of being removed, but I have no idea if that confers the right for
>> HM to be married to a muslim, hindu, buddhist, quaker etc.
>>
I think the stipulation is only that the monarch must not be, or marry, a Roman Catholic.
Any other religion, or any other kind of catholic, is allowed and always has been.
There is AFAIK no requirement for the monarch to be a member of the C of E.
George I was a German Lutheran.
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>>If nothing else it shows the level of naivety<<
How so?
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>> >>If nothing else it shows the level of naivety<<
>>
>> How so?
Let's put it this way...if she was my press adviser, I think she would have rendered herself liable to instant dismissal.
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The Sun speaks out:
pbs.twimg.com/media/Bn0O-TNIYAAYFOn.jpg
Link to a jpg hosted on Twitter as original is registration only/paywalled.
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>>The Sun speaks out: <<
Would that be The Sun, political editor Tom Newton Dunn, son of Lib Dem MEP set to loose his seat? That one?
:-)
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>>Let's put it this way...if she was my press adviser, I think she would have rendered herself liable to instant dismissal <<
Perhaps you would but when those protesters shout "Racist" at UKIP, they are shouting it at each and every UKIP voter too. Judging by the comments under the articles covering it, she summed up the feelings of those voters very accurately indeed.
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>> >>Let's put it this way...if she was my press adviser, I think she would have
>> rendered herself liable to instant dismissal <<
>>
>> Perhaps you would but when those protesters shout "Racist" at UKIP, they are shouting it
>> at each and every UKIP voter too. Judging by the comments under the articles covering
>> it, she summed up the feelings of those voters very accurately indeed.
But all Joe Public sees is a UKIP person showing 'the finger' to the camera. They don't know which insults may, or may, not have been shouted at them.
That's why the charge of naivety is valid.
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>>But all Joe Public sees is a UKIP person showing 'the finger' to the camera. They don't know which insults may, or may, not have been shouted at them.<<
I credit the public with a more enquiring mind than that, the picture doesnt appear in isolation but alongside the story and I doubt anyone wavering on supporting UKIP would take a Green Party activist at their word rather than investigate further.
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"...when those protesters shout "Racist" at UKIP, they are shouting it at each and every UKIP voter too. Judging by the comments under the articles covering it, she summed up the feelings of those voters very accurately indeed."
This is a disingenuous remark, which avoids the issue: the woman allowed herself to be provoked into an naive reaction which is a PR disaster for UKIP. Being caught on camera raising the finger does little to suggest UKIP is a party worth taking seriously.
None of which will stop me voting UKIP on Thursday, as I have said elsewhere. But I'll be damned if I vote UKIP ever again.
Their anti-Europe stance is the only thing that recommends them to me.
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UKIP Debate - Volume 10 - madf
