Gerry Adams?
Maybe he thought he was fireproof now he's a "respected" politician, perhaps?
|
Looks as though he was arrested 'by appointment' as often seems to be case these days (qv various phone hacking suspects). Suspect he will be bailed in due course.
I suspect I'm alone here in thinking so but I'm troubled by the manner in which 'facts' leading to charging of Ivor Bell and current arrest of Adams came to the police.
|
|
You mean the Boston tapes? It did go through the US legal system, it's not like they were gained by illegal means.
|
>> You mean the Boston tapes? It did go through the US legal system, it's not
>> like they were gained by illegal means.
I know it was fought in US courts but I'm still disturbed from a constitutional journalistic sources and free speech POV. Presumably US courts approach conflict between constitutional rights in same way as ours do with conflicting HRA/ECHR rights - a balancing exercise.
If the court's judgement is that the criminal investigation aspect trumps journalism then the job has been done properly.
I'm still left with a slight feeling that long term damage to understanding of troubles and application of that knowledge to future has suffered and that a worrying precedent has been set.
|
They probably did have to balance out the two conflicting views, as would ours. I assume facts relating to criminal acts aren't allowed to be privileged so they thought a criminal act and looking into it trumped his right to privacy. Doesn't seem an unreasonable view and one I could see our courts coming to a similar decision, but I'm not expert.
Maybe but there is still alot of ill feeling and lots of questions that people want answering.
|
>> I suspect I'm alone here in thinking so but I'm troubled by the manner in
>> which 'facts' leading to charging of Ivor Bell and current arrest of Adams came to
>> the police.
>>
I suspect I'm not alone when I say I couldn't give two hoots how law enforcement got hold of this information about a murderer.
|
And there it is. We have learned nothing form the Guildford Six. etc etc etc etc etc etc........
Coming from someone of your former profession, well. I'm staggered. Is that how you carried out your duties? Couldn't care less how information was obtained so long as it got your suspect (yes, suspect), in the dock?
We have nothing to fear from our authorities, oh no.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 1 May 14 at 16:29
|
I think it's utterly hilarious that anybody thought that giving evidence of the sort that would put you behind bars to the Boston tapes was a good idea for the IRA.
Normally I'd say let sleeping dogs lie; with this particular crowd I'd hope that anybody found guilty on account of their own/chums testimony will spend the rest of their lives looking at brick walls.
|
|
Sorry, WP, but Vić is right (except that Guildford was Four; Birmingham was Six): that's not a reassuring sentiment to hear from one in your field, retired or otherwise.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 1 May 14 at 17:52
|
>> Sorry, WP, but Vić is right (except that Guildford was Four; Birmingham was Six): that's
>> not a reassuring sentiment to hear from one in your field, retired or otherwise.
>>
See my post at 1806.
|
>> And there it is. We have learned nothing form the Guildford Six. etc etc etc
>> etc etc etc........
>>
>> Coming from someone of your former profession, well. I'm staggered. Is that how you carried
>> out your duties? Couldn't care less how information was obtained so long as it got
>> your suspect (yes, suspect), in the dock?
>>
>> We have nothing to fear from our authorities, oh no.
I suspect I'm not alone when I say I couldn't give two hoots how law enforcement got hold of THIS information about a murderer.
The information provided by an ally country and tested in their courts.
|
>>The information provided by an ally country and tested in their courts<<
and you also have blind faith in American justice?
|
>> >>The information provided by an ally country and tested in their courts<<
>>
>> and you also have blind faith in American justice?
>>
No, not at all.....but it's a perfectly reasonable excuse to use the evidence.
|
Now you're contradicting yourself. You say you don't care how it was got but you're satisfied the proper process was used? And still happy to jump publicly to a conclusion about his guilt.
I'm no fan of Gerry Adams either - like, I suppose, most Brits who lived through the 1980s. But if we're going to put him away now, we owe it to everyone who's worked since then to make NI a safer place to be scrupulous about evidence and process. Anything less could undo a lot of the good that's been done.
|
>> Now you're contradicting yourself. You say you don't care how it was got but you're
>> satisfied the proper process was used? And still happy to jump publicly to a conclusion
>> about his guilt.
I don't think I'm contradicting myself at all.
If it's considered legal in this country to accept that evidence...which it is....then it matters not a jot to me how 'unfair' it is for a murderer and terrorist to be told something in America and then have the tables turned when officialdom overrules the caveat put on the original agreement from Boston...and then their whole sordid, illegal activities are exposed.
C'est la vie. Live by the sword and die by the sword and all that.
Hopefully it will give a smidgeon of comfort to the relatives of those executed by those scum.
>>
>> I'm no fan of Gerry Adams either - like, I suppose, most Brits who lived
>> through the 1980s. But if we're going to put him away now, we owe it
>> to everyone who's worked since then to make NI a safer place to be scrupulous
>> about evidence and process. Anything less could undo a lot of the good that's been
>> done.
If someone criminally minded 'took him out', I'd think two wrongs do make a right. He is an evil, evil man.
|
|
And create a 'martyr' (hideous word) and set the whole ugly process off again. I'm amazed you can't see this.
|
>> And create a 'martyr' (hideous word) and set the whole ugly process off again. I'm
>> amazed you can't see this.
>>
I cannot stand the fact that a man/men who (quite probably literally) has blood on his/their hands now swan about as they do.
They were never 'freedom fighters' when they chose to bomb wholly innocent people..or did likewise by shooting..or abducted people, tortured them and then shot them.
They are on the same level as gang leaders.
|
>>
>> I cannot stand the fact that a man/men who (quite probably literally) has blood on
>> his/their hands now swan about as they do.
>>
>> They were never 'freedom fighters' when they chose to bomb wholly innocent people..or did likewise
>> by shooting..or abducted people, tortured them and then shot them.
>>
>> They are on the same level as gang leaders.
>>
The British security forces have a strong case to answer about the Dublin bombings, innocent civilians were killed by the British army and suspects were beaten up and had evidence fabricated against them by police both here and in NI. RUC officers are also known to have passed details of Republicans to the Loyalist paramilitaries who subsequently "Disappeared" them.
No side comes out of the troubles with clean hands.
|
>> They were never 'freedom fighters' when they chose to bomb wholly innocent people..or did likewise
>> by shooting..or abducted people, tortured them and then shot them.
>>
>> They are on the same level as gang leaders.
So what's your view on the history of Northern Ireland leading to partition and subsequent events, particularly the demands for civil rights in the late sixties and the subsequent troubles?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 1 May 14 at 20:39
|
>> So what's your view on the history of Northern Ireland leading to partition and subsequent
>> events, particularly the demands for civil rights in the late sixties and the subsequent troubles?
>>
I don't have an in depth knowledge on the subject. I have enough to get by, but certainly not enough to have a meaningful discussion at length.
However.
I do know right from wrong.
Whether it was a Loyalist or Republican act....killing people just because of their religion is a heinous crime, simple as that....and...Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are up to their necks in it.
|
|
Most of them weren't freedom fighters, most were low life psychopathic thugs...who when they had a gun in their hands. If they hadn't been "freedom fighters" they would have been drug dealers or pimps. As it was they had a "cause" and they did very well for themselves. How it must must have stuck in the craws of decent people to share a space with them.
|
>> Most of them weren't freedom fighters, most were low life psychopathic thugs.
People can be both of those things at once you know.
The Algerian war of independence (or 'revolution' as they called it) had certain features in common with this Northern Ireland conflict. People did utterly atrocious things there too, for what they believed were the best of reasons.
I've heard the spine-chilling tales from the horse's mouth, from old geezers whose teeth still gleamed at the memory.
|
>So what's your view on the history of Northern Ireland leading to partition and subsequent events,
Let's turn that around.
Under what circumstances do you believe that indiscriminate bombing of civilians is justified?
Under what circumstances is the summary execution of civilians justified?
You seem to relish seeing aged celebrities in front of the beak defending themselves against accusations of sexual conduct that wasn't all that unusual 40 years ago, but you're "troubled" by how evidence leading to the questioning of someone who may be involved in the murder of a mother of 10 kids was obtained?
Go figure.
|
Kevin,
Those of course are the questions always used to turn debate on this subject and other similar long running ethnic/religious/nationality conflict into a black white issue. The question pushes people to either an absurdly simple answer or one which seeks to explain. The latter allows oneself portrayed as supporting murder and not worthy of further audience.
For the record indiscriminate bombing or summary execution of civilians cannot be justified. But when you have the circumstances pertaining in NI in 1969 where 40% of the population perceive themselves to be excluded and with a history going back centuries to the 'planters' and before it's not surprising that armed conflict starts and escalates.
One of the issues in trying to understand the troubles is that history tends to be written, or at least seen, from one perspective or the other. One of the benefits of the so called Boston Project was that it might have produced some new facts and insights. That's why I'm uneasy about academic research being subverted for the current purpose.
Is also a bit odd that Adams, the senior man in a political party with significant support on both sides of the border is arrested during an election campaign. He apparently attended voluntarily and given his profile and fact that he's an elected Member of the Diall he's not likely to dissapear.
Others have pointed to the irony that his accusers who's statements have led to his arrest are dissident Republicans who regard him as having sold out. I wonder how much value would be placed on evidence they have of wrong doing by security forces including their alleged co-working with Loyalist paramilitaries?
If there's sufficient evidence then he'll have to face a court and its verdict. I've no argument with that. A SA style 'Peace and Reconciliation' process would be a better way of dealing with the aftermath of the Troubles but neither side seems to want that.
I don't relish seeing aged celebs in front of the beak but if there are credible accusations (and we've now seen Clifford convicted) then they shouldn't be barred by time still less excuses about mores of the time. Groping teenage girls in a hotel jacuzzi was never acceptable, not even 40 or 50 yrs ago.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 2 May 14 at 12:10
|
A well considered reply Bromp but you are wrong.
The question was intended to determine why you think that terrorists should be treated any differently to other murderers.
|
There is very little chance of charges being brought, let alone a conviction. I can't see anyone standing in a witness box claiming they saw Adams abduct or murder Jean McConville. Her son who was present when she was taken has already said he won't testify because of fears for the safety of his family. The IRA ain't gone away and they won't at least before all those active in the troubles are long dead.
Some times you have to accept that atrocities were carried out by all sides to varying degrees and let the past be gone.
|
In this case I favour the DCI Gene Hunt method of policing (Life on Mars BBC TV)
Here's a typical quote: Hunt: You're nicked for the murder of Delphine Parks, the rape and attempted murder of Nina Akiboa. Anything you say will be taken down, ripped up and shoved down your scrawny little throat until you've choked to death. Gene Hunt chapter 1 verse 2.
|
I heard something on R2 news today that has annoyed me.
Apparently, Sinn Fein have said that if Gerry Adams is charged they will be reviewing how they deal with the PSNI.
Note they haven't said they'd review Gerry Adams role in their party???? What a warped mob they are.
|
>> I heard something on R2 news today that has annoyed me.
>>
>> Apparently, Sinn Fein have said that if Gerry Adams is charged they will be reviewing
>> how they deal with the PSNI.
>>Note they haven't said they'd review Gerry Adams role in their party????
>>What a warped mob they are.
If you pick up an NI prism and view the world their way it's not all that warped at all.
The issue I think is how quickly these accusationss have led to action compared to apparent glacial pace of investigations into alleged 'joint projects' between UK Security Forces and the Unionist paramilitary outfits.
PSNI has replaced the RUC but has the culture changed?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 3 May 14 at 19:47
|
It' s easy and sometimes fun to fantasise that is how we would like the police to operate but I suspect in reality a few harsh words from a copper would send those advocating such tactics running to their lawyers and drafting letters to their MPs.
At the end of the day justice is dependant on and even handled and due process being observed whatever the feeling of the police to an accused and we are fortunate to live in a country where the police do, as a matter of course, act in accordance with the law.
|
Prior to the Good Friday agreement many deals, however unpalatable, were done in the name of 'peace'. Convicted terrorists and murderers returned to their homeland.
Bloody Sunday has been a festering sore in that some of the line drawn under history was removed. Likewise 'forgive and forget' seems only to apply as and when it suits.
As for Gerry Adams he is only one of many 'allegedly' involved in atrocities who was never held to
account. Whether he was led out of the back door and is currently residing in 5 star accommodation with a conclusion of 'insufficient evidence' already decided we may never know. But NI was and still is a complicated social and political hotbed underneath a veneer of stability.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 3 May 14 at 21:03
|
>> But NI was and still is a complicated social and political hotbed underneath a veneer
>> of stability.
A brilliant summary.
|
Should have said that:
NI was and still is a complicated social, criminal and political hotbed underneath a veneer of stability.
|
>> social, criminal and political hotbed underneath a veneer of stability.
Pretty thin veneer. Sometimes doesn't seem to be there at all.
|
"Pretty thin veneer. Sometimes doesn't seem to be there at all. "
Do they still have separate catholic and protestant schools? If they do, then the hotbed will never cool down. The seeds of hate are sown in schools - that is why I firmly believe that our schools should be secular.
|
Ordinary people in NI across both communities are charmingly polite and communicative to visitors, far more so than people are anywhere in England for example. That includes the RUC, who were heavily and obviously tooled-up in the sixties.
First time I went there I was standing in the street watching a band of uniformed youths marching past playing fifes and things. I asked a passer-by who the youths were and he explained that they weren't the Apprentice Boys of Derry or Londonderry - those would have been adult men - but that they 'belonged to the Apprentice Boys'.
The troubles were already under way. Another person I spoke to in the street said sadly: 'There are two cemeteries. But there's only one God.'
|
>>But there's only one God.
>>
Slight overestimate there still.
|
>> >>But there's only one God.
>> >>
>>
>> Slight overestimate there still.
By several thousand and their adherents all believe their god is the "right" god!
I still like the Invisible Pink Unicorn as a deity!
|
>> Slight overestimate there still.
>> By several thousand and their adherents all believe their god is the "right" god!
I still like the Invisible Pink Unicorn as a deity!
You guys do bang on a bit. Naturally you can't see beyond the dripping ends of your smug atheist noses, but you are missing the point here. People in Northern Ireland generally believe in some sort of God, or say they do. We all know already that you don't.
What I did was quote a passer-by in Belfast to show how some people thought at that time. It wasn't meant as a challenge to anyone's precious beliefs or unbeliefs.
|
And there's me just thinking it was a good opportunity for a bit of a joke.
Tchah.
|
>> Tchah.
Oh all right. Nothing wrong with a jest. Perhaps I should complain that you forgot the smiley...
|
Time for a V&O, AC. Time for a V&O.
;-)
|
>> Time for a V&O.
>> ;-)
It certainly feels like it. But my iron self-discipline will keep me waiting for another two hours and forty minutes.
If only I could think of something else, some sort of partial substitute to, you know, keep the wolf from the door... But my mind is blank on that subject. Extensive brain damage no doubt. The more I think about it the more attractive this virgins' blood lark seems.
|
"I still like the Invisible Pink Unicorn as a deity!"
I though you worshipped Nigel, Roger.
;-)
|
A friend posted this on the book of face...
Adams still being quizzed in police station. A police spokesman revealed more details “We continue to quiz him. We did Countdown on Friday he did very well and was able to make a nine letter word from the letters T E R R O R S I T. We then did Who Wants to be a Millionaire but he had to phone his friend Martin to ask what kneecapping was but lost all despite going fifty/fifty on the question “what is a balaclava” he said it was a sweet pastry filled with honey.
After that we moved on to Wheel of Fortune in which he came close but couldn’t quite solve it and ended up with just one missing letter THE D_SAPPEARED.
We’re just about to do Weakest Link with a difference in which the quiz master will be asked questions by the contestants rather than the other way around. All our contestants are children whose parents suddenly vanished.
|
|
Beeb banner headline suggests he is about to be released without charge.
|
Released but a file will be sent to the public prosecutor. Adams has given a press conference which aired live on R5L around 20:15.
No doubt it will feature in later bulletins too.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 4 May 14 at 21:42
|
|
Shares in whitewash makers boom.
|
I've been reading a book on the post-war lives of Nazi war criminals, and their evasion of justice. After the Nuremberg trials, the allies lost enthusiasm for prosecutions, in the full knowledge that they too had plenty of war criminals who had e.g. shot their opponents in cold blood after accepting surrender. Some decades later some big Nazi fish were tracked down and sent to trial; I do hope we've seen the last of them, they're not particularly dignified for our justice system.
Much as I think Adams should hang for his involvement in the 'Troubles', I'm more inclined towards letting sleeping dogs lie. You have to move on in life, otherwise you spend your entire life in retrospective over-analysis which isn't healthy and doesn't allow progress.
Same goes for Yewtree. Whitewash is a good thing.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Tue 6 May 14 at 09:48
|
>> Much as I think Adams should hang for his involvement in the 'Troubles', I'm more
>> inclined towards letting sleeping dogs lie. You have to move on in life, otherwise you
>> spend your entire life in retrospective over-analysis which isn't healthy and doesn't allow progress.
That pragmatic approach is the only one that works. Menachem Begin, Archbishop Makarios, Kenyatta etc through to Arafat are just a few post war examples of terrorist turned statesman. Whatever lurks in Adams's past he, McGuiness and equally so others on the Loyalist side of the fence have risked their own lives for the peace process.
NI is in a better place now than it was before, never mind during, the Troubles.
If there'd been sufficient evidence to prosecute Adams over disappearances he'd have had to face the music whatever the politics. There was some suggestion late Saturday that he might be prosecuted for historic membership of a proscribed organisation.
That would have looked blatantly political and even if there was prima facie evidence public interest would surely weigh against prosecution.
>> Same goes for Yewtree. Whitewash is a good thing.
You're equating bananas with elephants. A real political cause, what amounted to something near a war and a peaceful outcome is not same as letting dirty old men a la Max Clifford off the hook.
|
"A real political cause, what amounted to something near a war and a peaceful outcome is not same as letting dirty old men a la Max Clifford off the hook."
I agree, Bromo ………….. but now you're awake, will you get back to that technical thread and tell us what's happening with the Berlingo? ;-)
|
>> I agree, Bromo ………….. but now you're awake, will you get back to that technical
>> thread and tell us what's happening with the Berlingo? ;-)
In brief, the problem is still there.
I'll update Tech when I've got a few more minutes.
|
>> That pragmatic approach is the only one that works. Menachem Begin, Archbishop Makarios, Kenyatta etc
>> through to Arafat are just a few post war examples of terrorist turned statesman. Whatever
>> lurks in Adams's past he, McGuiness and equally so others on the Loyalist side of
>> the fence have risked their own lives for the peace process.
>>
>> NI is in a better place now than it was before, never mind during, the
>> Troubles.
Do you think the soldiers involved in B loody Sunday should be left alone then?
|
>>
>> Do you think the soldiers involved in B loody Sunday should be left alone then?
>>
I certainly do. The long standing troubles in NI and the continuing sectarianism which is simmering just below the surface are a result of people's refusal to accept that history belongs in books and sometimes it is expedient to forget it and let it go.
|
>>The long standing troubles in NI and the continuing sectarianism which is simmering just below the surface are a result of people's refusal to accept that history belongs in books and sometimes it is expedient to forget it and let it go.
Exactly, however (Bromp) you cannot pick and choose. You draw a line under the whole lot, or you go after everybody.
Seems to me that drawing a line is the correct path. Sometimes the past needs to be the past.
|
>> Do you think the soldiers involved in B loody Sunday should be left alone then?
>
I find myself conflicted on that one.
On the one hand there's the principle of putting it behind as outlined above (EDIT and as RoR puts it).
On the other there's a bit of me that says those acting with the powers and authority of the state are subject to a different test and are still accountable. Not necessarily the individual soldiers but the officers who allowed it (or failed to prevent it) and those who covered it up for decades. Same goes for collusion between security forces and loyalist groups.
As I said up thread the rational way forward would be a SA style peace and reconciliation exercise but neither side in NI is prepared to swallow that.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 6 May 14 at 11:24
|
|
Will the DPP now have to consider the "public interest" test when deciding whether to prosecute?
|
All they will consider is how many more IEDs will be the result of Adams being prosecuted.
Pragmatic politics makes for cowardly decisions sometimes.
Last edited by: Roger. on Tue 6 May 14 at 14:11
|
|
But if the authorities go down the other road, innocents will be killed by those IEDs, the authorities will ensure they have the gold standard protection for themselves. So either decision could be cowardly.
|
>>
>> Pragmatic politics makes for cowardly decisions sometimes.
>>
The world is too complicated a place to be able to do the "right" thing all the time.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Tue 6 May 14 at 15:54
|
>As I said up thread the rational way forward would be a SA style peace and reconciliation exercise..
It was actually Truth and Reconciliation and it wasn't entirely successful because those facing prosecution tended to keep schtum. Any victim of human rights abuse could provide a statement and the alleged perpetrators then brought before the commission. The commission investigated abuses by both sides in the conflict, so if we adopted a similar process for NI then it's highly probable that Adams, McGuinness and alot of others would be facing some uncomfortable questions.
Do you really think that re-opening old wounds by a very public investigation of each and every allegation of abuse is a "rational way forward" from where we are now? I'm not sure that I do.
IMHO, the biggest positive to come from the TRC was that the victims were given help.
The TRC proceedings were televised in SA so Ian in Cape Town could probably give us a first hand account of the pros and cons.
|
>> It was actually Truth and Reconciliation and it wasn't entirely successful because those facing prosecution
>> tended to keep schtum. Any victim of human rights abuse could provide a statement and
>> the alleged perpetrators then brought before the commission. The commission investigated abuses by both sides
>> in the conflict, so if we adopted a similar process for NI then it's highly
>> probable that Adams, McGuinness and alot of others would be facing some uncomfortable questions.
Lot of others presumably covers the UK military, RUC and the Loyalist paramilitaries.
>> Do you really think that re-opening old wounds by a very public investigation of each
>> and every allegation of abuse is a "rational way forward" from where we are now?
>> I'm not sure that I do.
I'm not sure either but if forgive/forget is an option neither side will embrace it seems more likely to give victims help and closure than criminal proceedings.
>> IMHO, the biggest positive to come from the TRC was that the victims were given
>> help.
See above
>> The TRC proceedings were televised in SA so Ian in Cape Town could probably give
>> us a first hand account of the pros and cons.
Agreed.
|
>Lot of others presumably covers the UK military, RUC and the Loyalist paramilitaries.
Of course it would. The commission was set up to deal with human rights abuses irrespective of who committed them.
>I'm not sure either but if forgive/forget is an option neither side will embrace it seems
>more likely to give victims help and closure than criminal proceedings.
Criminal proceedings were not precluded by appearing before the TRC, even if you came clean and told the truth. Very few people were given amnesty, so for NI you would be looking at tens, if not hundreds, of cases.
If all parties still dismiss forgive/forget, it seems to me that they are hell bent on retribution not reconciliation.
|
>>You're equating bananas with elephants.
So mass murder should be forgotten about, but a bit of touching up should not be? I know which is the banana, and which is the elephant. You think they're the other way round.
I find your endless interest in the salacious detail of the Yewtrees a bit creepy, TBH.
|
>> Operation Yewtree - Volume 20 - Pat
Well Mapmaker, I hope you read the link Bromp has posted and see the effect this man has had on other people's lives.
I read every word, and what a thoroughly nasty human being he is.
Sentence well deserved and absolutely fair.
Pat
<<
I find your failure to answer this post in the Yewtree thread made on Friday at 15.27 a bit odd too.
Or would that entail admitting you could have been wrong?
Pat
|
Pat,
I once heard that this sort of hounding and bullying was just the sort of thing which drove people from the site and discouraged others form posting. People who leave never to return . etc. etc. etc. etc.
|
>> Pat,
>>
>> I once heard that this sort of hounding and bullying was just the sort of
>> thing which drove people from the site and discouraged others form posting. People who leave
>> never to return . etc. etc. etc. etc.
Eh?
All she did was ask a question.
|
That's hounding and bullying?
You always say you want to understand why others hold their opinions, so do I in this case.
Nothing wrong with that.
Pat
|
>>Nothing wrong with that.
Couldn't agree more.
|
>>I find your failure to answer this post in the Yewtree thread made on Friday at 15.27 a bit odd too
No idea what you're talking about. Can't see any such post timed at 15.27.
You however didn't respond to my post of Thursday at 17.26, which I do take as your admission that you are wrong.
|
>>which I do take as your admission that you are wrong<<
Likewise Mapmaker.
Pat
|
>> So mass murder should be forgotten about, but a bit of touching up should not
>> be? I know which is the banana, and which is the elephant. You think they're
>> the other way round.
So how would you see NI, or any other ethno/religious conflict that results in a politically excluded minority taking up arms, resolved if both sides want to agree a peace process.
>> I find your endless interest in the salacious detail of the Yewtrees a bit creepy,
>> TBH.
>
The only reason I've focussed on 'salacious' detail is to try and refute the assertion by you and others that Yewtree was about just a bit of touching up etc.
What's creepy to my mind is that people think powerful men groping young/vulnerable women was ever OK.
|
>>What's creepy to my mind is that people think powerful men groping young/vulnerable women was ever OK.
What's creepy is 'reading every word' of the judge's summing up and then encouraging others to share your pornography.
|
>> What's creepy is 'reading every word' of the judge's summing up and then encouraging others
>> to share your pornography.
That is, to pinch a phrase from Boris Johnson, nonsense on stilts.
If you think a factual, albeit graphic, description of sexual (or any other) crime and its effect on the victim is pornography I despair for you.
Incidentally it was Pat not me who commended reading every word. I just provided the link.
And if you think those remarks are graphic don't even think of looking at what was said when sentencing Stuart Hazel for the murder of Tia Sharpe.
|
>>If you think a factual, albeit graphic, description of sexual (or any other) crime and its effect on the victim is pornography I despair for you.
<<
Surely necessary if one is to make a judgement that the other party, whether male or female, enjoyed it?
Pat
|
>> >> What's creepy is 'reading every word' of the judge's summing up and then encouraging
>> others
>> >> to share your pornography.
>>
>> That is, to pinch a phrase from Boris Johnson, nonsense on stilts.
Who pinched it from Jeremy Bentham, but I agree with you!
Deserves a red face too.
|
>> If there'd been sufficient evidence to prosecute Adams over disappearances he'd have had to face
>> the music whatever the politics. There was some suggestion late Saturday that he might be
>> prosecuted for historic membership of a proscribed organisation.
>>
>> That would have looked blatantly political and even if there was prima facie evidence public
>> interest would surely weigh against prosecution.
Only just found it but Joshua Rozenberg has a piece in The Guardian looking at the public interest aspect.
www.theguardian.com/law/2014/may/06/prosecutors-public-interest-gerry-adams
He quotes Lord Shawcross, Nuremberg Prosecutor and later Labour Attorney General:
"It has never been the rule in this country," he told parliament in 1951, "that suspected criminal offences must always be the subject of a prosecution." Prosecutors, he added, must have regard to "the effect which a prosecution, successful or unsuccessful as the case may be, would have on public morale or order".
|
Gerry Adams arrested - Roger.
