Had a visit this morning from British Gas concerning possibly replacing our older boiler.
Amazing savings could be made - hundreds of pounds - if we spent thousands of pounds buying a new one.
He could not explain how these savings were calculated, e.g over how many hours of usage etc. Has anyone any idea how it is worked out.
I'm interested to hear any views on updating boilers and any experiences - good or bad.
Thanks
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If your boiler is a non condensing type, then it will be about 60% efficient. If you change it for a modern condensing boiler it will be about 90% efficient. So, assuming you make no other changes, you will save about 1/3 off your heating / hot water bill (not necessarily your gas bill, since this may include you cooking costs). So if you spend say £500 a year on heating you will save about £165 / year. Now, given that BG use a random number generator for dreaming up boiler replacement prices - which usually comes out at 3 grand :-) - the savings are going to take a long time to stack up!! If the boiler is otherwise OK, then I would probably just leave it. Modern condensing boilers are not exactly without their issues.....
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...And some very good installers come in a lot cheaper than British Gas.
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>>If your boiler is a non condensing type, then it will be about 60% efficient. If you change it for a modern condensing boiler it will be about 90% efficient
My 8 year old Grant non-condensing combi boiler is 85% efficient.
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The old boiler has packed up in my daughter/SIL's rented out house.
We put her in touch with a CORGI registered plumber we know and have used ourselves, and he has quoted £2800 for removing the old boiler, removing the old hot water tank, fitting an extra radiator in an unheated bedroom and installing a new combi boiler in the loft on an end wall.
So quite a bit of pipework to be run for water, heating and gas, plus getting rid of a very hard to get at old boiler - we think it's not too bad,
Last edited by: Roger. on Wed 30 Apr 14 at 22:33
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I wonder if you think you need a new boiler or if BG are just touting for business? It seems to be standard practice for them to "advise" each year that parts for old boilers (5 years old even!) are no longer available. This is nonsense as the working parts of common boilers are fairly standard and while knobs and trim etc may not be available, the working parts can still be obtained.
If you really do need a new one then I suggest you also get prices from a good independent. I had mine changed for a Remeha boiler three years ago by an independent when my old boiler finally packed in. Much quieter and 25% lower consumption but also use changed due to lifestyle changes so I cant make a true like for like case. As you infer I suspect it will be many years - if ever - that it pays back.
I have read that newer boilers life is less than older style as the newer ones are less robustly built. Having said that my independent says the key parts of the boiler he fitted are well made and, although it had only a five year warranty, he reckons it will have a long life.
Bottom line though is I would stick with what you have if it works.
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3K for a Boiler change? Why Heating 'Engineers' think they are so precious is beyond me. From the majority of installations that I see here in North Devon most of them (the 2nd rate Plumbers) need to go back to School.
For a like for like change then it amounts, or should do, to the cost of the Boiler, some materials plus a realistic mark up, plus a decent labour rate. A like for like should take a days labour and little more.
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According to "my" plumber Grant is the new Bosch.
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From what I understand, the life of a new style boiler is 10 years. My old one, touch wood, is 30 years old! Neighbour has replaced boiler twice now in the 25 years I've lived at this address.
So you will save money on the gas, but will you when you cost replacing it twice? Plus, my usage of gas is low compared to others nearby so saving will not be as great as advertised.
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All good advice why changing often doesn't make economic sense... avoid British Gas too if you do swap as they are usually double a small local installer... unless it's a local installer who gets business by shaving £100 off B.Gas prices and on the strength of profits has a 5 bed house, two BMWs and a ski chalet abroad... to list just some of the stuff the installer I use has amassed.
Our boiler is 27yrs old and looks to have another 10yrs to go. Just had a new gas valve and stat so it should be trouble free for a while.
But we will change sooner rather than later as its flue exits right where I want to make a rear porch and the drainpipe size cool flue of a new condensing boiler is needed to enable this work.
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Thank you for such prompt responses which are extremely valuable. In a society which so much is made to last for a short time its reassuring to hear your posts which are so reasoned.
The quote was £4K !!!
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"Bottom line though is I would stick with what you have if it works"
I'm a bit late to the party but I'll add my general agreement to the sentiments expressed.
Who says you need a new one ? If it's British Gas telling you then get an independent view. The independent gas man will easily find the "unobtainable" parts BG just can't find.
A new condensing boiler may save you a couple of hundred quid a year if you're lucky. But, it will only last 10 years, so that's maybe £3000 / 10 years = £300 per year extra cost.
Stick to what you've got as long as you can.
Last edited by: Dulwich Estate on Wed 30 Apr 14 at 22:52
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I'm not letting any gas fitters (let alone BG) anywhere near my back boiler. I understand you now have to have inspection panels to view the flue every metre. I suspect they'd love to condemn it and I'm not knocking holes in my chimney breast/bedroom/loft to look at a new stainless steel chimney liner that was fitted around ten years ago.
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At least make sure you have a carbon monoxide alarm.
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I am running a 20 year old Alpha Eco 240 combi which was installed when the house was built. I have had the transfer valve replaced and I had a long period when it would fire up, burn for 3 minutes, go out and then relight. Fine for central heating, NOT convenient for baths and showers,but it has been OK for the last 2 years. On my expectation of life a new boiler would be costing me about £700 a year and I can't be bothered! I have a non-audio CO alarm on the wall beside it. I note some of neighbours have their boilers in the garage which eases the CO danger.
Last edited by: Meldrew on Thu 1 May 14 at 06:23
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Thanks everyone for all the posts - appreciated. Definitely not replacing until any needed parts no longer available : it is a great boiler. Also will certainly find a good local independent - nobody wants to waste money.
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>>nobody wants to waste money
The Labour party seem quite good at it.
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The same as all the other political parties.
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Our 30 year old boiler was finally deemed beyond economical repair by our local repair man a couple of years back and he always regarded keeping it going for another year as a personal challenge so i9t seemed a fair assessment.
Replaced with a new condensing combi, boiler moved from kitchen to upstairs cupboard, new feed, loft tanks removed etc. So a fairly big job. Cost just over 3 grand IIRC. This is in a 4 bed detached with 15 radiators etc. so a fairly 'beefy' boiler.
Comparing the last year of the old boiler with the first year of the new boiler - which usefully were fairly similar years temperature wise - gas consumption dropped around 20-25%. This is with gas also used for cooking. Biggest %age drop was actually in the summer.
So I reckon from a cost point of view the new boiler will probably pay for itself over a 10 year life.
Two downsides:-
For some reason the kitchen hot tap takes ages to run really hot, nearby en suite hot tap is fine.
For the first few months the boiler was forever tripping out due to low pressure, often once a week. Basically the 30 year old radiators and pipework couldn't hack the higher pressure of the new system. Took ages to track down and fix leaks, so now it will go for months without tripping out.
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My boiler has had its fortieth birthday. And my self-confessed 'boiler geek' loves it.
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Wish it belated happy returns from me. Ours is an ideal standard : what make is yours for such excellent service ?
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Thank you. Ideal Concord.
I had to buy it a new PCB from eBay last year. Otherwise the annual service involves vacuuming the rust away...
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"Comparing the last year of the old boiler with the first year of the new boiler - which usefully were fairly similar years temperature wise - gas consumption dropped around 20-25%. This is with gas also used for cooking. Biggest %age drop was actually in the summer."
Thanks for that. It's good to get a trustworthy real-world view on actual savings rather than the rubbish spouted by manufacturers etc.
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British Gas opinions on boilers are up there with politicians promises
Ours is as old as the house, less than 25yrs, British Gas claimed it needed replacement 11 years ago as it was likely to fail any moment...
We're still waiting
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The posts have been very enlightening. Can anyone recommend a supplier who might be able to find parts for an older Ideal Standard boiler ?
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Any decent installer should be able to locate spare parts. If they tell you a part is not available check yourself at an authorised supplier
idealparts.com
The only thing I would say is that that the laws of supply and demand apply. Parts for old models aren't being made any more so the can be much more expensive than a similar part for a current model. A new fan unit on a twenty year old boiler cost me £300
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Having checked out this thread again recently, we had a new gas boiler installed a couple of weeks ago. The old one was the original installed in the house 16.5 years ago, an Ideal condensing boiler.
For a replacement boiler + power-flush + magnetic filter, a local chap (recommended by a friend) quoted £1600.
British Gas quoted £2735 after their £500 'discount'. [£400 scrappage scheme/£100 home care customer - ha, ha]
I employed the local chap who installed a new Ideal Logic 24. He explained that the system didn't need a power-flush as the water was remarkably clean - this didn't surprise me because it had been flushed out a couple of years ago and the water had been replaced again recently when a new radiator had been fitted. So £225 was deducted and the final cost was £1375; I was very happy with that.
The chap did a good job and, whilst doing a pressure test, detecting a gas leak at a newly installed gas-hob installed by another chap.
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I spent £100 or so in this summer on replacing thermostats/controller/rewiring/retreating water/new ballvalve on our 30 year old system.
BG quoted £5500 to replace 10 years ago.. (That buys a lot of gas)..
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They have to make a profit B.G.But they are pushing their luck.Our previous small Glowworm boiler lasted over twenty years.
We took advantage of a free scheme fitting a condensing boiler.Our radiators are now thirty two years old.I used to flush the system regulary and added rust protection.We pay a certain amount a month for boiler service and pipe and radiators check.On one radiator we had the pipes replaced and a new thermostate fitted.If i call them they are with us in 24 hrs the fitters don't rush they get payed by call out.While I can still afford it I stick with this system.
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A bit of thread drift I know but a combi boiler in the loft and a water meter are not a good combination !!!
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New gas boiler - RichardW
