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Further debate...
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 6 May 14 at 01:22
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Seems Mr Farage wouldn't come to Wales (Swansea) amid "security fears"....wonder what the back-story was/is ?
A leaflet was pushed through the letter box here for the Euro Elections - in English only.
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>>A leaflet was pushed through the letter box here for the Euro Elections - in English only.
Same ere!
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The least they could have done was offer a Yorkshire dialect version.
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Quite chuffed to have a direct message on our locally maintained - by me - UKIP Facebook page.
Some bloke was complaining about receiving our leaflet & flyer thru' his letterbox and wished us bad luck!
Shows our team are working in one of our target wards!
This --
"Your comments are noted. We are pleased to see that our leaflets are being distributed in Retford."
-- was my reply to him:-)
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I come from a small village near Newark, lived in the constituency for many years and still have family there.
Couple of comments; firstly I think Farage made the right decision. There are far more winnable seats for UKIP than Newark, and his lack of connections with the area would not help him. Had he won, he'd be in for the long haul; Newark folk do not care for change, there have been only eight MP's in the last hundred years.
Secondly; quite apart from Kenneth Clarke's smug dismissal, I was rather surprised when Labour had a tilt as well. Their recent track record in the constituency is nothing to brag about.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiona_Jones
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His mistake has been to dither. He should have said right from the start that it was UKIP policy to support local candidates, not parachute in high profile politicians as a publicity stunt.
That way he could have been true to their supposed principles, distanced himself from any backlash or failure to win, but taken lots of credit if they'd won.
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I hardly think a 12 hour pause to reflect is dithering!
I would imagine that he took the time to consult locally and nationally, but I think for all sorts of reasons he made the correct decision, both for himself and the party.
A I forecast, the media (and others) have damned him, as they were bound to for making ANY decision in this matter
A media generated storm over nothing.
BTW, the UKIP Facebook page now has over 100,000 "likes". Not votes, I know but pleasing nevertheless.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 19 May 14 at 01:49
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>> I hardly think a 12 hour pause to reflect is dithering!
I agree, by usual political standards it was pretty quick unless the political class had lots more notice than rest of us regarding Mercer's appointment to the Stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds.
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Raheem Kassam might be onto something, I have heard this idea from quite a number of people, Amjad has alot of support from members.
www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/01/ukip-should-choose-amjad-bashir
I attended a UKIP public meeting last night, between 120 and 130 people turned up, we had to put out every chair we could find and more new members signing up. There was a real buzz in the air, great to see so many people engaging in politics.
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Amjad Bashir looks like another businessman who sees exit from Europe as a way to roll back protections on workers rights.
Anybody who thinks 'the removing red tape' reason for exit means anything else is frankly naive.
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>>Amjad Bashir looks like another businessman who sees exit from Europe as a way to roll back protections on workers rights <<
What is it about how he looks that leads you to that conclusion??
At the public meeting a member of the audience asked a question on this very subject and the answer didnt lead me to believe that rights and regulations would be withdrawn on principle but on how well they work in practice which would be decided at a UK level rather than EU.
Not all red tape is related to workers rights either, that is a narrow view.
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"I hardly think a 12 hour pause to reflect is dithering!"
Some newspapers have described his decision not to stand as a u-turn. As far as I can make out, this is not strictly true. He was quoted by the Telegraph as saying saying he would give "very serious consideration" to standing at one point. However, he was naive if he expected the press to interpret his decision not to stand in any other way.
As has been pointed out elsewhere, UKIP have had a remarkably smooth ride from the media until recently, but the higher their profile becomes, the more penetrating will be the spotlight that is shone on them.
As far as the electorate is concerned, though, I don't think they care about such subtleties ahead of the European elections; like me, many people just want to throw a spanner in the political works.
Come the General Election it will be different and I think UKIP could look pretty flimsy.
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>> the more penetrating will be the spotlight that is shone on them
Absolutely. And when the media change from finding UKIP cute and novel as a non-threatening new entrant, and start to regard them as a political party to get rubbished, it'll get very lively.
However, at the moment they are forcing the main parties to focus on new [for them] subjects.
>>Come the General Election it will be different and I think UKIP could look pretty flimsy.
I suspect you're correct. However, I hope that they retain sufficient credibility to continue to give the others nervous twitches and keep them on their toes.
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Are you agreeing with me? :-)
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When I think you're right. Why wouldn't I?
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>>Come the General Election it will be different and I think UKIP could look pretty flimsy.<<
It is the biggest challenge the party faces but it is absolutely certain that the leadership know it.
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>> "I hardly think a 12 hour pause to reflect is dithering!"
>>
12 hours is a long time in politics when you have the press camped ouside waiting for a statement.
UKIP have had months or years to work out their strategy regarding fielding candidates in different kinds of constituency.
They could have worked out that the cleverest tactic was not necessarily to fire their best shot in the most unpromising battle.
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Saw Nigel in Derby tonight as part of his tour.
Live, in front of a BIG audience he is very, very, good.
He explained quite logically why he was not standing in Newark. His first free date to do anything other than EU campaigning and the election aftermath, is the 27th. May,.
The election has been called for June 7th (IIRC).
As he said, to win a by-election, a candidate must be on the ground campaigning and he just could not do that.
In addition he said that he had no connection whatsoever with Newark, having only been there once in his life. He confirmed, that in his view, had he stood he would have been looked upon by the local electorate as an opportunistic carpet-bagger.
The local branch and UKIP's National Executive Council will be meeting on Monday to choose a candidate, whose name should be announced on Tuesday.
Once in place UKIP will "throw the kitchen sink" at the constituency to achieve the best possible result!
Last edited by: Roger. on Fri 2 May 14 at 00:15
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Or to quote his hero, Mrs Thatcher, he's frit.
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A terminological inexactitude.
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>>Or to quote his hero, Mrs Thatcher, he's frit. <<
Or perhaps he is trying to be have like a responsible leader of a party of 35,000+ members who has a plan and sticks to it. It was always expected that he would stand in Kent somewhere and he has said quite clearly that he would tackle the 'one-man band' charge often put to him ( Suzanne Evans was on QT last night, another new face on QT for UKIP ) - the only reason for him to have stood in Newark was because he was Nigel Farage and in UKIP 2014 that isnt a good enough reason, we have to have the confidence in the wider party to deliver outside of his popularity alone, otherwise the party will never develop further. I have no doubt that Nigel will be pounding the streets with the candidate straight after the Euros though and activists will pour into Newark to assist as they did in Eastleigh.
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If UKIP was any good, or stood any chance of success in a General Election, a few Tory MPs would probably already have defected. Tellingly, none have. I expect UKIP top target seats already have sitting Tory MPs, are none of them tempted? No, and I think we can see why.
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>>If UKIP was any good, or stood any chance of success in a General Election, a few Tory MPs would probably already have defected. Tellingly, none have. I expect UKIP top target seats already have sitting Tory MPs, are none of them tempted? No, and I think we can see why.<<
Self-interest dear boy. Actually I think there are only around Tory 40 MPs who could be even considered a natural fit in UKIP, plus if any did join there is no guarantee they would be selected because that is done by members who are somewhat independant, many might block a defector on principle, many of these MPs have been for a long while saying UKIP was a waste - Kippers have long memories and being a big name wont save anyone from that, may even make it harder.
From a UKIP point of view, standing ex-Tories is fine but if it looks like a Tory takeover and they are just swapping rosette, it wouldnt be good for us so it isnt as attractive as it might seem on the face of it.
Your point is I am afraid far too simplistic, party politics is more complicated than you seem to think it is.
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>> Self-interest dear boy.
Exactly. If it were in their interests, they'd jump ship. It isn't so they don't. I would imagine a defector would be welcomed with open arms, they always are. Shaun Woodward, etc. And it's usually self interest motivating the jumps when they happen.
>> Your point is I am afraid far too simplistic, party politics is more complicated than
>> you seem to think it is.
It usually boils down to self interest, like you say.
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>>It usually boils down to self interest, like you say <<
Partly although someone like say Roger Helmer put the work in to establish himself in UKIP after jumping ship from the Tories and as a result he was voted top of the East Midlands list by members. I doubt he would be there if he had turned up expecting a red carpet though, he very much had to prove himself.
There is a difference between welcoming someone to a party and their promotion to positions of power. In UKIP we use democracy to select MEP candidates, PPCs and NEC members to name a few, all have to put their case to members so just joining alone doesnt guarantee anything.
I doubt many people who defect to UKIP at this stage do so to make their life easier, I can tell you that from personal expierence as an ex-Tory voter, must be vastly more difficult for MPs, people take defections extremely personally so there are implications far beyond pure political ones.
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You're turning in to a proper little politician, Stu.
I'm merely pointing out that MPs sometimes change political parties between General Elections if they think the grass is greener. For example, Shaun Woodward. They remain an MP under their new party's banner at least until there's another General Election. No sitting MP has, as yet, thought the grass would be greener under UKIP. I'm not talking about whoever Roger Helmet is, he isn't and wasn't an MP.
You're obfuscating my point beautifully in a way which would make any traditional politician proud of you.
No MPs have defected to UKIP, therefore no MPs think they'd be better off or stand a better chance of being re-elected under UKIP. That's all. I infer from that, that people who know more about it than I, i.e. MPs, have concluded that UKIP don't have a chance in a General Election.
I'm sure there are defections and moves at other levels, but I was only talking about MPs. If you can offer a position different to that which I have outlined, concerning MPs only, I'd be interested to hear it.
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>>You're turning in to a proper little politician, Stu <<
I do hope not, I am trying to avoid it at all costs!
>>I'm merely pointing out that MPs sometimes change political parties between General Elections if they think the grass is greener. No sitting MP has, as yet, thought the grass would be greener under UKIP<<
Very rare under any circumstances. As I said, there is more than the pure politics of it and changing party is not the same as changing your favorite beer etc, people involved in politics for any length of time find it consumes their life, so changing party represents a big life change, not just a political one.
You are viewing it from a narrow political perspective.
>>I'm not talking about whoever Roger Helmer is, he isn't and wasn't an MP.<<
True but he was an elected Tory MEP which is still a big jump and the closest example of the process that would face any MP jumping ship.
>>If you can offer a position different to that which I have outlined, concerning MPs only, I'd be interested to hear it.<<
I can only say wait and see, I have heard many things, none of which are my business to make public, timing is everything and the fact that there havent been defections yet is no guide on whether there will be.
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Fairy nuff. I still reckon with the current attention on them, at least one would-be opportunitst would have surfaced by now.
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>> I still reckon with the current attention on them, at least one would-be opportunitst would have surfaced by now.<<
They did surface, briefly and Cameron had a panic and promised a referendum. The tug of war between UKIP and Cameron over his backbenchers is an extremely useful tool - in the absence of MPs of our own at the moment in time, having Tory MPs who exert pressure on Cameron on UKIP policy issues is helpful to say the least, his weakness has furthered our cause a great deal.
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Suzanne Evans came across well, and better than Yvette Cooper who has had a lot more practice on QT last night, I thought.
Cooper came over to me as condescending and more interested in points scoring and was nicely put back in her box by the Lib Dem at one point.
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Blimey. Was that good word for a Lib Dem there? That's a rare beast.
(A general comment, not aimed at you, M.)
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 2 May 14 at 13:54
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It was the Lib Dems president, Tim Farron. Yvette Cooper had a go at the government's 'go home' advert vans, Farron pointed out that he had been publicly opposed to them, while the Labour party had kept quiet at the time for fear of upsetting their voters:)
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>>Suzanne Evans came across well <<
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocGeEeM7vIo
This was the first interview I saw with her and I thought yes, she can really handle the tough stuff, Andrew Neil is a pretty tough interviewer. I have seen a great number of positive comments about her, pushing for her to be brought forward for media appearances.
I have a soft spot for Farron, he has the lad next door swagger that would do the Lib Dems a world of good if he was leader, he is a vastly more plausible guy than Clegg, although that isnt setting the bar high.
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Last night Nigel publicly thanked Nick Clegg for all the new members he had persuaded to join UKIP :-)
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tinyurl.com/lugmqno
Link to video of Nigel Farage in Derby last night.
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Well Roger the number of Facebook likes for the UKIP page is going through the roof, it gained 17k likes in the last week taking it to 104k so we must be doing something right.
Who knew that the party 'stuck in the 50's' would be so handy at social media...
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>> Well Roger the number of Facebook likes for the UKIP page is going through the
>> roof, it gained 17k likes in the last week taking it to 104k so we
>> must be doing something right.
Don't get too excited
You have almost caught up with the BNP then who have 121,7000 likes - Quite worrying that.
Long way to catch Michael Jackson who has 73,400,123 and he's been dead 5 years
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Long way to catch Michael Jackson who has 73,400,123 and he's been dead 5 years
:-)
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>>Long way to catch Michael Jackson who has 73,400,123 and he's been dead 5 years <<
Tories are on about 170k, I think that is a more realistic target :-)
Im not saying I wouldnt be impressed if Nigel moonwalks onto stage though...
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>>You have almost caught up with the BNP then who have 121,7000 likes - Quite worrying that <<
The point is the rate of increase, not the total, politics is about momentum.
I must admit I dont tend to worry about anything related to the BNP, they are sinking without a trace and good riddance.
By the way CG, I asked for confirmation regarding discrimination laws that you asked about. No known plans for changes to existing law.
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My memory must be getting worse. What did I ask?
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>>My memory must be getting worse. What did I ask? <<
Might be mine, was pretty sure it was you though. Someone asked if UKIP planned to change any anti-discrimination laws - if it was someone else I do apologise, getting old!
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It was you CGN, I said I was content with anti-discrimination laws as they were and you asked me if that was official UKIP policy. I asked and apparently that is the case.
Asked on 21st April, Volume 5. Dont say I dont try and get answers :-)
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You're right it was. Thanks for taking the effort to find to find out the answer.
Any idea where I put the TV remote?
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>>You're right it was. Thanks for taking the effort to find to find out the answer.<<
No probs, I will always try and find an answer if I dont have it to hand.
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Well Stu (might have been Roger actually), I actually went through that document by William Dartmouth. I read it like I was being paid to do so.
As an image, or a document to palm people off with its pretty good; professional, full of facts, well written and impressive. Very supportive and quite gung-ho.
However, if anybody with a knowledgeable and/or challenging mind ever sits down and reads it properly it is full of 2 + 2 =37, subjective assumptions and double counting.
If that were a document as part of a business case in a sensible corporate environment, he would be fired. Disingenuous, deliberately misinterpretative, mentioning unassociated or incidental facts, migrating to assumptions and then using them as a basis for proven conclusions. Unsubstantiated opinions and subjective conclusions.
I can send you my notes if you have any interest at all.
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>>I can send you my notes if you have any interest at all <<
Send then to the man himself, we like direct politics in UKIP.
www.williamdartmouth.com/contact/contact.html
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Ok, I will. But I think I might just spend a little time tidying them up first. Ok to send to a friend, but a bit tatty for "official" feedback.
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Come off it Stu, the homophobia one is about what looks like an alleged intemperate comment during a row between councillors. And when it comes to fraud UKIP might like to think Motes and beams and whether it's Wise to make such comparisons.
The kippers who keep emerging from the woodwork publishing their racist stuff in social media suggest UKIP has a flies/jampot issue with such folks.
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>>the homophobia one is about what looks like an alleged intemperate comment during a row between councillors <<
So the Labour line is its ok to be homophobic aslong as you are in a bad mood then? Can you hear yourself?
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>> So the Labour line is its ok to be homophobic aslong as you are in
>> a bad mood then? Can you hear yourself?
>>
I didn't say it was OK. I suggested that intemperate words in a row between colleagues were a different thing to posting overtly racist stuff on TwittFace etc.
Is UKIP a jampot for racist flies or not?
Note you've no response to my comment about UKIP MEPs and fraud.
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>> I didn't say it was OK. I suggested that intemperate words in a row between colleagues were a different thing to posting overtly racist stuff on TwittFace etc.<<
I dont resort to homophobia when I get angry, it is not a normal response and I dont think it is justified under any circumstances.
>>Is UKIP a jampot for racist flies or not?<<
No more so than any other party, one has to separate voters from party members though as they can be quite different. I dont think UKIP attracts any more racist members than any other mainstream party and we are very active in challenging such views when we find them, I find such views intolerable and I expect anyone with such views to be booted, I am not alone in that view.
The BNP is the jampot, although it appears to be past its sell-by date.
>>Note you've no response to my comment about UKIP MEPs and fraud <<
Ok, name me one sitting UKIP MEP or candidate who has been found guilty of fraud? Seeems a bit rich from the party of Dennis MacShame but plough on if you must.
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>> Ok, name me one sitting UKIP MEP or candidate who has been found guilty of
>> fraud? Seeems a bit rich from the party of Dennis MacShame but plough on if
>> you must.
The names that occurred, as implied in my post, were Tom Wise and Ashley Mote. OK, Wise at least had Whip withdrawn when the allegations emerged but fact remains that a guy elected on UKIP ticket was convicted of fraud. Washing Nige's hands at allegations stage doesn't alter that any more than removing Whip from Mercer removes his history as a Tory.
UKIP's selling point is supposed to be new and clean politics. Pointing to McShane etc and saying they're just as dirty as us doesn't cut much mustard.
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>>Wise at least had Whip withdrawn when the allegations emerged but fact remains that a guy elected on UKIP ticket was convicted of fraud. Washing Nige's hands at allegations stage doesn't alter that any more than removing Whip from Mercer removes his history as a Tory.<<
I didnt join the party until 2013, I would not have joined the party of Wise and Mote but what I see from inside is a party striving so hard to reach a higher standard. Perfect, no, not possible, but as good as we can be, yes and we take that very seriously, hence suspensions happen quickly when incidents occur.
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Ok, name me one sitting UKIP MEP or candidate who has been found guilty of fraud? Seeems a bit rich from the party of Dennis MacShame but plough on if you must.
Remind me who UKIP's Deputy Chairman is...Oh Yes Neil Hamilton....!!
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>>Remind me who UKIP's Deputy Chairman is...Oh Yes Neil Hamilton....!!<<
Indeed and he is neither an MEP or candidate, he is not up for elected office in any way.
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Is this another one - I'm losing track
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27268747
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>> I suggested that intemperate words in a row between colleagues were a different thing to posting overtly racist stuff on TwittFace etc.
<<
Different...as in filming something twice and getting it wrong on a test track before getting it right, and then having it stolen and published.
Could it be called 'intemperate words JC uttered, instead of your version of what's said is said then?
Could consistency and clarification be required:)
Pat
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>> Different...as in filming something twice and getting it wrong on a test track before getting
>> it right, and then having it stolen and published.
>>
>> Could it be called 'intemperate words JC uttered, instead of your version of what's said
>> is said then?
>>
>> Could consistency and clarification be required:)
The kippers are attempting to cover their candidates' offensive tweets by pointing to the other parties as 'just the same'. I'm saying that comparing the 'row' case to tweets is in Apples v Bananas territory and that where fraud is concerned they might keep their heads down.
Nobody's suggested JC's words were intemperate. At best it was a mistake or at worst he was playing for laughs - even if only with his recording crew.
As the Councillor has yet to be prosecuted it's a bit soon for a verdict.
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>>Nobody's suggested JC's words were intemperate. At best it was a mistake or at worst he
>>was playing for laughs - even if only with his recording crew.
Well, "at best" might have to take into account that according to the Mirror's own analyst, she is only 75% sure he actually said the word in the first place.
So, presumably "at best" would be that he didn't say it?
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" The battle for our islands has begun " ( Winston Churchill ). Thank you UKIP for leading the charge. D-Day 22May 2014.
To all British patriots - Your country needs you = JOIN THE PEOPLES ARMY.
A comment from the Daily Express:
www.express.co.uk/news/uk/473646/These-Far-Left-egg-chucking-protesters-look-like-they-need-a-good-wash-says-Farage
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"It is the parties that have wielded power, not Ukip, that are discredited".
"I have seen Tories and Labour have power and not seen any difference," he says. They don't do what they say."
Says it all really.
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www.hopenothate.org.uk/ukip/ukip-poster-today-3670
Guess I'll have to apply for an Irish Passport soon.
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Shame about the grammar !
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Proof that was written by a UKIP member, please.
Typical Hope Not Hate!
A bit of info on Hope not Hate - from a UKIP blog, so no doubt will be rubbished by some.
www.bloggers4ukip.org.uk/2013/10/hope-not-hate-union-sockpuppets.html
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>> Proof that was written by a UKIP member, please.
>> Typical Hope Not Hate!
>> A bit of info on Hope not Hate - from a UKIP blog, so no
>> doubt will be rubbished by some.
>>
>> www.bloggers4ukip.org.uk/2013/10/hope-not-hate-union-sockpuppets.html
Hope not Hate was originally focussed on the BNP. Here's its account of why it chooses to take on UKIP as well.
www.hopenothate.org.uk/campaigns/2014/
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Seeing its funding channels was a surprise. Not a bad one in any shape or form. Glad to see unions actually doing something worthwhile. They're on my twitter feed....dunno how they got there.
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It is interesting that HnH rhetoric is based on the premise that the Right is bad, hateful and it is infact simply a leftwing political vehicle rather than a campaign against hate, more a campaign against people that they hate. That is fine but it would be refreshing if they were simply honest about it. They appear to have a blindspot to anyone leftwing with extreme views, so perhaps it should be called Hope not Hate ( unless you are a leftie, in which case carry on ).
Having stood on the streets and spoken to the public, I have to say, the public are far angrier and more resentful about immigration than HnH obviously think they are, the idea that UKIP is making it worse is quite blinkered, what made it worse was the denial of debate in the past, plus the 'racist' label for anyone who talked about it - suppressing the views and concerns of ordinary folk, not just on immigration but a whole host of other issues too seems to have driven them to hold more entrenched, not to mention hardline views.
That hate is the responsibility of the parties of government, it festered under their watch, not ours, UKIP is acting as a release valve for the debate that the other parties didnt want to have. Some of the most common sentances I hear on the streets are "Finally someone is doing something", "You are the only ones listening" and finally "I know I shouldnt say it, but...". UKIP is not the problem, mainstream parties are and the success of UKIP today was created in a large part by their prejudice and ignorance towards large numbers of voters.
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Stu,
I don't think HnH has ever pretended to be anything other than socially liberal, pro-tolerance and above all anti racist outfit. Those were always left/liberal causes.
I wouldn't get too hung up on use of the term Right. It's simply shorthand for more vocal support of, and dog whistling towards, those who 'know I shouldn't say this but'. Those who think that are going to welcome UKIP. The more interesting test is how many avoid eye contact altogether and walk on by.
Went one further the the kipper in Towcester last time out, tell him politely but firmly that I'd not the slightest interest in his one issue party and it's mostly to right of Tories scrapbook of an economic policy.
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>>The more interesting test is how many avoid eye contact altogether and walk on by.<<
About 30%. Around 40% said yes they will vote for us and the remaining 30% ask a few questions and say they will give it some thought.
We dont mind if you dont agree with us chap, as long as you vote, that is the most important thing anyone can do.
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Spot on post Stu...exactly how I see it...and 'yes' I'd vote for you no problem.
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>>Spot on post Stu...exactly how I see it...and 'yes' I'd vote for you no problem <<
I met a number who said they will vote for me recently, quite a strange thing for people in your neighbourhood to cross the street, shake your hand and put their faith in you, huge responsibility both to them and to the party. My favorite part of it is undoubtedly hearing the personal stories of the public, people are extremely interesting and you never hear the same tale twice.
Shame you dont live in my town, although if you did I would conscript you ;-)
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>> >> Proof that was written by a UKIP member, please.
>> >> Typical Hope Not Hate!
>> >> A bit of info on Hope not Hate - from a UKIP blog, so
>> no
>> >> doubt will be rubbished by some.
>> >>
>> >> www.bloggers4ukip.org.uk/2013/10/hope-not-hate-union-sockpuppets.html
>>
>> Hope not Hate was originally focussed on the BNP. Here's its account of why it
>> chooses to take on UKIP as well.
>>
>> www.hopenothate.org.uk/campaigns/2014/
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8< snip - link removed at OP's request
Just found the above on a quick google. No idea who is behind it.
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Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 5 May 14 at 17:06
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-------------------
>>
>> 8< snip - link removed at OP's request
>>
>> Just found the above on a quick google. No idea who is behind it.
Whoever is behind it is a DISGRACE. Just look at the caption to the fourth photograph on the left side of page. It reads:
Deluded Hope not Hate clowns/inbreds (Jew in centre) with face's only a Mother could love.
Do you want to apologise and remove the link or can we draw the same conclusion as Zero did about you as our resident racist?
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 5 May 14 at 17:06
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TBH, I didn't read it fully before I posted the link.
Apologies in order and given.
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>> TBH, I didn't read it fully before I posted the link.
>> Apologies in order and given.
Thanks Roger.
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I cannot edit - post replied to.
(I did not fully read as SWMBO came in from garden centre shopping and needed help unloading)
Can I ask a moderator to delete that link.
Totally out of order blog and grossly unpleasant, too.
Once again - sorry :-(
Last edited by: Roger. on Mon 5 May 14 at 12:22
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>> Totally out of order blog and grossly unpleasant, too.
>> Once again - sorry :-(
I knew all along that you weren't the racist you once claimed to be (in a simpler, more primitive world).
Rastaman them love freedom man!
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>> >> Totally out of order blog and grossly unpleasant, too.
>> >> Once again - sorry :-(
>>
>> I knew all along that you weren't the racist you once claimed to be (in
>> a simpler, more primitive world).
>>
>> Rastaman them love freedom man!
High-Five, man!
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>> Can I ask a moderator to delete that link.
Done
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Joseph Rowntree Foundation is well respected in social-justice circles. If they do funding the funding then HnH will do for me.
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If you carry out minimal research on HnH you will find that its leader is one Nick Lowles, who - apparently - started his political life in an obscure far-left sect organised around a weekly newspaper called the Socialist Organiser: a splinter group from the trotskyist Workers' Revolutionary Party.
Whether or not this is 100% accurate, I do not know, but it does seem that Mr Lowles IS a VERY hard left individual.
If those are your politics - fine - that's your choice, but I do think that further, deeper, research is called for on Mr Lowles, his organisation and his real intentions.
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>> Joseph Rowntree Foundation is well respected in social-justice circles. If they do funding the funding
>> then HnH will do for me.
Looking down the other end of the telescope, I am shocked that the Rowntree Trust has given such large amounts of money, seeing the drivel coming out of HnH.
Joseph will be spinning in his grave I should think. Characterising anybody you disagree with as a preacher of hate is a long way from the Quaker philosophy.
HnH's writing and editing is dreadful - an example here, that it took two of them to write - this comes under "Research"!
www.hopenothate.org.uk/hate-groups/
They also appear to be sheltering their activity under charitable status - shame on them.
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Manatee,
The content of the page you link to is some way from characterising 'everybody you disagree with' as a preacher of hate. It focusses on overtly racist groups starting with BNP and looking where the supporters BNP has lost have fetched up.
It seems probable that some will have ended up on the fruitcake fringe of UKIP.
While I understand (and respectfully disagree with) your views on charitable status or campaign bodies nothing there is beyond legitimate campaign for a group opposing racism and promoting co-operation.
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>> Manatee,
>>
>> The content of the page you link to is some way from characterising 'everybody you
>> disagree with' as a preacher of hate.
Agreed.
They do seem to have UKIP in their sights, though. And really they seem to be no more than canvassing force for Labour, without actually flying the flag, and very much targeted on elections.
I applaud the general sentiment, "hope not hate" without the capitals, but looking at its website I'm surprised to see so many of the great and the good among its patrons.
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HnH agreed that UKIP is not a racist party. We were largely ignored by them until we started - according to polls and by-election results - taking Labour voters away from that party.
Now we ARE the object of their "hate".
Strange that.
Just saying!
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I hope you all watched Andrew Marr this morning, our man Nigel Farage was his usual. brilliant (IMO) self:
Start at 21 minutes in: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b043bpq8/The_Andrew_Marr_Show_04_05_2014/
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I watched Marr this morning, the best bit was the end watching Milliband and Farage next to eachother, poor Ed, he was in danger of having to answer a straight question but with much skill he dodged it like a pro.
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I nearly missed the Nige & Ed debate at the end as I only zoomed in to see Dear Leader :)
They both gave a good account of themselves IMO but, Ed, Nick, and Dave, always appear (to me) as if they are quoting from some pre-rehearsed script, whereas Nige is 'a natural', probably because he speaks the truth.
Unlike the main-stream politicos.
Good to hear that UKIP will this week be sending out the message that they do not have a racist agenda.
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Just for FM, I know he likes something to make notes about, a nice direct link.
www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/insideradvantage.pdf
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UKIP debate Volume 8. - R.P.