I'd love to see that smug swine Downey put in the slammer for 500 years, but the Northern Ireland police have screwed it up and let him walk.
I know 'compromises' have to be engineered to ensure 'peace', so called, because it isn't and toerags on both sides are still at it. But anyone who leaves a car bomb that kills people, especially in London, is an evil mofo in my view. I just hope someone takes against his horrible face fungus in his place of safety and cuts his goolies off while he's drunk or asleep. Nasty piece of excrement. Really deserves a bad end.
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It needs someone rich to fund a civil case... all the facts would come out with a lesser standard of proof... and no need to compromise anyone involved in secret squirrel activities.
It matters not whether he has much assets...you could send the bailiffs in every month just in case...and everyone would know the truth, rather than at present just supposing.
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So a police statement or letter saying that someone is no longer under investigation as a suspect has the effect of granting immunity for life even should further evidence come to light?
Is that really what has happened? How does that square with DLT being tried twice for the same offence?
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I don't think it's a simple as that Cliff. I've spent most of the last hour wading through the judgement and I'm not even halfway through.
www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/r-v-downey-abuse-judgment.pdf
A fascinating insight into the 'Peace Process' in NI.
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>> So a police statement or letter saying that someone is no longer under investigation as
>> a suspect has the effect of granting immunity for life even should further evidence come
>> to light?
>> Is that really what has happened?
When I used to sit behind the desk as a Custody Sergeant...and there was insufficient evidence to charge someone for an offence..in the serious jobs I would tell them 'there is no further action AT THIS TIME'...which left open another go at it if more evidence came to light.
If you simply told them NFA (No Further Action)... it implied that was a decision made in its entirety.
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No immunity was conferred, nor amnesty given. Sinn Fein wanted that, and for all those detained for pre 1988 Troubles related convictions there was a deal for early release. There was also some process giving a light sentence to those who came forward and were found guilty.
Subsequently, a bill giving immunity to other so called 'On the Run' suspects was drafted but withdrawn when it became clear it had no prospect of a Commons majority.
Seems there was then an attempt to separate those suspects between sheep against who there was in fact no case or insufficient evidence and goats who were still suspects and face arrest if they entered the UK. The former were given letters confirming their status as no longer under investigation but with a caveat that they might be arrested if new evidence etc. emerged.
Downey was in fact a 'goat' as he was on the PNC as a suspect for Hyde Park. Somehow the PSNI officers dealing with his case overlooked that and he was given a 'sheep' letter. He was subsequently arrested while transiting Gatwick en route NI to Greece as he showed up as 'wanted' on PNC.
His lawyers argued on four grounds that proceeding against him was an 'abuse of process'. On the third of those points the judge agreed and ordered the indictment to be stayed. Decision must be pretty well bomb proof as CPS/Attorney General agree there's no realistic prospect of a successful appeal.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 27 Feb 14 at 13:25
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>> Decision must be pretty well bomb proof as CPS/Attorney General agree there's no realistic prospect of a successful appeal.
Yes, and I'm afraid my OP is dodgy in simply assuming Downey's guilt which hasn't been established by a court. What convinced and convinces me is the expression on the geezer's face. Not evidence though, I know.
There's no doubt about the guilt of those two so-called 'Muslim converts' who murdered Lee Rigby. What I can't see is any connection between that pair and Islam. They didn't betray 'their religion' as the judge claimed. They aren't Muslims. They are something quite different, somethinng rather weird actually, some sort of folie à deux. The authorities should persecute anyone praising or justifying their actions, and any so-called imam or other person thought to have driven them round the bend with pernicious nonsense, without mercy.
And the real Muslims should disown them and those like them loud and clear, not just rather discreetly as they have so far. One can see their problem, but this is no time to be wimpish. It just confuses the public and allows bigots (of every stripe) free rein.
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>> And the real Muslims should disown them and those like them loud and clear, not
>> just rather discreetly as they have so far.
Don't hold your breath.
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>> I'm breathing again. No harm done.
Yes, heartening stuff... good old Ariana Stassinopoulos. But the Huffpost isn't mainstream. The mainstream media, almost unanimously, have projected the view that those two perverse weirdos were Islamist or even Muslim 'extremists', and they have given scant coverage to the backlash in the respectable Muslim organizations (many of which state explicitly that the murderers aren't Muslims) while repeatedly featuring individuals like the detestable Anjem Chaudary who apparently favour that sort of thing and dirty the word jihad with their rubbish.
Actually those nutters have gone a bit quiet in recent weeks. But the mainstream media have continued to play an invidious role to put it mildly. Of course ugly brutes like Murdoch and Dacre to name but two are just doing their thing, but I've been surprised by the BBC's bumbling.
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>> ugly brutes like Murdoch and Dacre to name but two are just doing their thing, but I've been surprised by the BBC's bumbling.
Astute readers of this stuff will notice that I have shifted my ground from attributing the 'discretion' of proper Muslims to their wimpishness to a different position blaming the way the thing has been covered by the media.
So be it.
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>> >> ugly brutes like Murdoch and Dacre to name but two are just doing their
>> thing, but I've been surprised by the BBC's bumbling.
The BBC have their heads so far up their own backsides, that they do not have a clue what the real issues are, they assume everyone runs with their own thoughts and ideas..and the rest of us are strange or nutters.
>>
>> Astute readers of this stuff will notice that I have shifted my ground from attributing
>> the 'discretion' of proper Muslims to their wimpishness to a different position blaming the way
>> the thing has been covered by the media.
That's a cop out. The wimpishness is still there... and it harms their cause.
The press is the press...don't trust a word the rags say, there's always an angle. Sadly the broadsheets are going that way as well. Shame.
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>> That's a cop out. The wimpishness is still there... and it harms their cause.
No, I'm serious Wp. Look at Alanović's link. All the serious groups have come out, or most of them. I was wrong to call them wimpish. They are no more wimpish than anyone else (that could mean quite wimpish admittedly).
And of course I meant the broadsheets. I don't read tabloids often.
As for the beeb, you are quite wrong. It's one of the world's most serious and experienced broadcasters and it knows a hell of a lot of things no one else does.
In this instance though it isn't doing its duty or anything like it. I'm appalled frankly. Bumbling and evasion... kowtowing so to speak to politicians and 'managers'. People despise these quite rightly but the carphounds are still more in charge than anyone else.
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>> As for the beeb, you are quite wrong. It's one of the world's most serious
>> and experienced broadcasters and it knows a hell of a lot of things no one
>> else does.
I agree with that, from what little I know, as a world wide issue... although they have seemingly slipped badly backwards from what they used to be.
What I meant was a domestic angle. They are incredibly narcissistic in their outlook..or at least that's how I see it..their left of centre or left views are presumed to be the real deal..and everything or everyone else is wrong...
...well that's not right from a national broadcaster paid for by all of us. That's not their prerogative.
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>> No, I'm serious Wp. Look at Alanović's link.
We're wasting our time, AC. they don't want it to be so. That link unequivocally refutes Roger's claim, but he doesn't want to hear it.
Roger - will you retract your incorrect statement? Will the facts of the matter change your view, or do you stick by your words?
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>> We're wasting our time, AC. they don't want it to be so.
I've read it, I read it when you posted it. I agree with it.
I'm glad all those groups are united in their condemnation and I think it's a step forward.
However, it's only that, a step forward.
There are many, many people who are followers of Islam who like everyone else in the world are decent straightforward people..but...when it's 'one of their own' up to no good are not at all loud enough to condemn it.....and there are many reasons for that i.e. loyalty to the religion, fear of offending the radicals, seeming to be disloyal, etc.
If the local Imam is allowing his mosque to be used to spout radical stuff..who is going to stand up and challenge it?
That's the point I'm making.
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So a "sheep" could still be re-arrested if new evidence emerged, under the caveat in his letter, as could a "goat"?
Either could be re-arrested, but only if given the right letter ? Were they otherwise told whether they were sheep or goats, or does the sending of the appropriate letter define the category?
It sounds completely bonkers to me.
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Those I described as 'goats' are 'wanted' on PNC or it's Northern Irish equivalent or are on Interpol records. They are liable to arrest if they enter UK. As I understand the judgement and statements by the AG in the Commons yesterday they were 'informed' of their status but through Sinn Fein reps rather than by letter.
Those I describe as 'sheep' are likely to be people with some previous para-military involvement but against whom there is no current wanted tag; insufficient evidence to proceed for example. They were given a so called comfort letter advising them of this. Downey was wrongly placed in this category.
I agree it sounds a bit bonkers but I guess NI has to be moved on from its troubles and these are the sort of devices that need to be used.
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Talking of 'sheep' and 'goats' brought to mind an interesting, tongue in cheek, point in a letter in today's Telegraph where someone mused that although they might not get him for killing the soldiers might the RSPCA be persuaded to have a 'pop' on the grounds of him causing 'unnecessary suffering' to the horses that died?
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>> I agree it sounds a bit bonkers but I guess NI has to be moved
>> on from its troubles and these are the sort of devices that need to be
>> used.
>>
I see that, and sort of grudgingly agree with it. After all, we have a long history of shady deals in the interests of expediency.
But this particular bit of "moving on" seems only to have become possible because of a mix-up over different types of letter. But for the sheep/goat mistake he could have been re-arrested and charged, it seems.
It seems an absurd way of agreeing to put the past behind us, and one just as likely to raise new animosities as assuage old.
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Why don't the squaddies get such a letter?
Let's face it, they are/were serving their country; are/were in a disciplined service, so have to do as they are told; were acting virtually untrained in that role in very difficult circumstances ...and have had 40 years of weariness hanging over their heads...
...yet some out and out terrorist gets let off the hook?
What a funny world we live in.
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>>
>>
>> I agree it sounds a bit bonkers but I guess NI has to be moved
>> on from its troubles and these are the sort of devices that need to be
>> used.
>>
When you sue for peace you often have to do things which would at other times be unpalatable.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Thu 27 Feb 14 at 17:01
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Another police balls-up - Westpig
