I don't know much about TTs being from the CD generation but I have recently bought a second hand Alphason HIFI rack for £25 to replace my home made one.
I decided to test everything after I had rewired everything and I have discovered my turntable is faulty. It makes a racket as soon as I switch the platter on (rather like a clatter) which lasts for a few seconds but then the record doesn't play properly, it starts of very slowly as if it is on belt is on the wrong pulley (the speed change is manual) then gets up to speed about ten seconds in before slowing down again.
It is a Project Debut MK2, anybody got any idea what could be wrong? As far as I can tell it is tracking ok and the problem is with the motor/platter mechanism.
Could it be the bearings? I have already changed the belt and no change.
It is a Project Debut MK2 I bought new when I was 16 in 1999 as as a bit of sentimental value since I have had it for such a long time. A new one as good quality as this will cost over £200 so I cannot afford to replace it.
Any idea?
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Is the belt OK Sheikha? They can perish or stretch. Could there be some grease on it or the pulleys? Is the centre bearing running freely? they can dry out you know, drop of oil no problem.
It's a pretty simple device really. But it's easy to damage some things if you don't know all the details of how they come apart.
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Already changed the belt, but it was a spare one that it came with, the clatter seems to come from the plater though so it doesn't sound belt related. I will take a picture of it to see if that helps.
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Take the platter off and clean out the spindle and bearing.
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Is the rubber mat on the platter secure...?
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The platter (top bit) and the drive belt carrier can be two separate parts. Maybe simply not seating correctly? Or, is there a speed change device which is snagging on the belt? Our TT is Scottish, but not the fashionable one, just the one they copied:)
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NIL I didn't know there was a copy of the Lynn, or unless the Sondek was a copy in itself.
I have lifted up the entire platter of the spindle and reseated and tried a different a record seems to work now speed wise. However the sound is a bit bassy I supect there is a problem with the tracking too. The stylus is well over due for a replacement too though.
I do have a protector thing that came with it but I cannot remember how to use it.
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Apparently STD was set up by ex-Linn engineers in '78, who wanted to better the LP12, so the Sondek came before the STD. I wouldn't say the Linn was a copy of anything, but the triple spring isolation idea first turned up in a Thorens TD150 in around '62. First Sondek was '72. I happen to have a non-operational TD150 with an SME arm that I got for £10. Will try to remember to get it going again. The Scottish one that works still is an STD 305S (Strathclyde Transcription Developments) with 4 spring suspension, with a Rega arm, and various mods by Rega.
I have no idea whether it does better the Linn. Contemporary reports of the STD were favourable, but the Linn looked better, if nought else. And still does!
Last edited by: NIL on Thu 9 Jan 14 at 20:51
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The first 3 point belt-driven TT was by Acoustic Research (Ed Vilchur, USA) in 1962. The Thorens TD 150 was 1965 vintage. There's still a lot of interest in anachrophilia. To some old geezers.
Last edited by: NIL on Thu 9 Jan 14 at 21:19
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Here is a picture of it, it is slightly out of focus as I forgot my camera was in manual focus mode but it is clearer enough.
i167.photobucket.com/albums/u141/amazingtrade/P1030187_zps915a51b7.jpg
If I do try a drop of oil do I oil both the pulley on the motor and the spindle?
I will try it without the mat just in case but the clatter noise is something mechanical and it only does it with the platter on which suggests it could be the bearings hopefully just dry.
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Take the belt off and spin the platter. If the bearing is the issue, that will perhaps reveal it.
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OK Got to the bottom of it, tried the original record again and still same problem, removed the mat and it now works fine however with the mat on the entire platter wouldn't move.
I am still think there could be something a bit more serious up with it, I will see how it performs with heavier vinyl.
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I have a Thorens 160, though not used it for a while. I use to take the turntable off and insert the appropriate measure of Redex into the spindle's shaft as and when necessary to minimise any friction. Just spinning the turntable with a finger would see it spinning for several minutes afterwards.
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Thanks just changed the mat from a crappy DJ turntable I had spare seems to be a lot better, the racket is still there on start up though so I can oil it tomorrow and see how it goes.
The bass still seems a little boomy though but the mid range and treble are certainly very very lively through my HD25s. The boomyness could be just because I am using the pre amp that came with my PM6003 rather than Rotel BX870.
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Think the mat has lost its tactile quality so the weight of the record holds it back as it spins up
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It was a cheap Numark branded mat anyway, I will order a new stylus (they are about £50 these days!) a new mat and do the oil service as suggested above :).
I will then read how to do the tracking and I should be ready to go. Already forgot just how much I miss the sound of vinyl and I believe many people are put off because they buy a cheap £40 Maplin special and wonder how it sounds flat and crackly.
Once again thanks, the suggestions here have got the old thing going again :).
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 9 Jan 14 at 20:14
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Perhaps the Alphason mat is a heavy one, and the weight and/or inertia is causing the bearing problems?
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The Alpason is a HIFI rack, the only link to that and this fault is I had transfer everything from my old home made rack to this new much more solid one. It is a very very heavy rack meaning less vibrations etc.
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I am having trouble sourcing the stylus now, the OM10s are around £50+ I don't want so spend anything like that, would a cheaper generic one be up to scratch?
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This is all a bit annoying really.
However pretty it looks, a basically simple piece of kit costing two hundred quid that doesn't even work is a steaming heap of poo. How could a technophile and electronic sophisticate fall for a con like that?
Unless it's been bashed about and damaged in transit. Can happen.
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It is working fine now with the new mat, only just a that initial clatter at start up but even that seems to have fixed itself.
I admit they are very expensive for what they are but they are not mass produced in the same way a tablet computer is.
It seems the sylus is the most expensive part of a sub £300 turntable.
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It can't be all that good, it hasn't got a Garrard autochanger. That won't mean anything to anyone under the age of about 45 !
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The Project Debut in the day was unique because at the time you could get really expensive products like the Lynn and mid range stuff like Rega. On the budget end of the market everything was cheap plastic Japanese crap which was mass produced.
The project Debut took the elements of the high end audiophile decks and used cheaper parts, and the result was nothing could match it in terms of sound quality for the money. I paid £120 for mine and I have had it nearly 15 years, I think that made it a very good buy.
You could get speed changers for the Project but they cost about £50, I am not sure how they worked may have just been a variable resistor which reduced the voltage to the motor.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 9 Jan 14 at 21:18
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>> You could get speed changers for the Project but they cost about £50, I am
>> not sure how they worked may have just been a variable resistor which reduced the
>> voltage to the motor.
Sorry Rattle, wrong end of stick - there were Alphason turntables IIRC correctly and I went off in the wrong direction.
Yours looks like this?
www.vinylengine.com/library/pro-ject/debut.shtml
You could get a man-well from there by the look of it, should you have lost yours.
I guess it is a synchronous motor, so the speed change probably just moved the belt...
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 9 Jan 14 at 21:39
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I have the MK2 version which had a few improvements to the plater suspension.
This is my new rack, the rest of the room needs a bit of a tidy!.
i167.photobucket.com/albums/u141/amazingtrade/P1030194_zps161609bd.jpg
Again worked out a bit blurred, need to adjust those settings on the camera.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 9 Jan 14 at 21:50
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>> It can't be all that good, it hasn't got a Garrard autochanger. That won't mean
>> anything to anyone under the age of about 45 !
more like 60.
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>> I am having trouble sourcing the stylus now, the OM10s are around £50+ I don't
>> want so spend anything like that, would a cheaper generic one be up to scratch?
>>
Drop in at Busy B Records just round the corner from me if you're passing. He only does Vinyl, I think. I remember getting a stylus there some years ago. Can't remember what player it was for but he's a vinyl enthusiast so he might be able to help.
HO
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Yes it,s well worth repairing.
Henley Designs are the UK Distributors and there very helpfull.
OM10 replacement stylus is in stock and £55.
Which is imho an expensive option. You would be better of buying a new cartridge, an Audio Technica AT95 would do the job and should come in at about £30.
You will need an alignment protractor, and also a small spirit level is worth having.
Take care the cartridge tags on the Pro Jects are very, very fragile, if you break one it,s a pain.
Sewing machine oil will do the job for the bearing, dont over fill you will only need a few drops..
I have a Pro Ject 6.1 SB with a Denon DL160 both bought second hand for less than £400 and it,s staying put.
Spares are readly available from Henley and there cheap as chips...
Last edited by: seasidersrock on Fri 10 Jan 14 at 01:26
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I have the protractor it came with a very nice handy bag of spares :) One which I used today to change the belt.
I have an Ortofon Pro DJ stylus on my Debut atm, simply because it was the cheaper than OM10 it replaced.
Is the AT95 a good cartridge? How would it compare to my OM10?
I bought my OM10 cartridge and stylus for £22 as an 18 year old student. I went into a shop called Practical HIFI (now Audio T) and said I have no money and what could they offer me. They asked how much money did I have, I repied £22 so they sold me the OM10! Would never be cheeky like that now.
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Just been reading the reviews of the AT95, seems the obvious choice. I assume it will work ok with the Debut? The tracking and weight balance options seem a bit basic.
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Of course the AT95 is downgrading from the OM10 and you will have the extra hassle of setting up the AT95... and you might not like the sound. £55 for a stylus for the OM10 is not a life changer compared with £35 for a whole AT95.
However I'd far rather an AT95 to a £15 unbranded stylus on the OM10... the money in the OM range is all about the stylus quality.
Had you thought about an OM5 stylus at about £42.... getting closer to the AT95 price and I think one of the usual fits to the Debut at the time.
>>>Garrard autochanger
Cant beat them for old low value records. Just bought an issue free late 50s radiogram for a fiver. Lovely tone on older singles and 78s.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 10 Jan 14 at 10:23
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Faulty turntable - worth having repaired? - Armel Coussine
