They have been saying that since 2008.
We are all doomed - to die .. eventually.
It sells their cribsheets.
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They have been pushing this video for over a year bow. They had to remake it once to change the dates as stuff they claimed hasn't happened.
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>>
>> Ah - that's comforting :-)
>>
Right, time to max the credit cards and default on the mortgage.
It must be true because I read it in the Daily Mail :-)
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If you've ever got to the end of one of their sales videos you've more grit than I have.
They're right, sort of.
But their ability to predict is very exaggerated. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the stock markets will crash. That's what they do. What I can't tell you is when.
Despite the melodrama which actually detracts from the message, they do have a point about the debt. There will either be a government default or much more likley in the case of UK some serious and/or sustained higher than 'normal' inflation at some point, and nothing is being done to ameliorate that, despite Osborne's sleights-of-arithmetic.
There have been no real cuts in the sense of anything that makes a dent in the public finance deficit, say what you like about food banks and homelessness.
It's not even a secret conspiracy, the facts are there. They afre just not acknowledged. Why we still have the bare faced distortion of the public debt by the exclusion of about 75% of it is a mystery. Those unfunded pension liabilities (state pension, and still ludicrously generous public sector pensions) have to be met by future generations just as much as actual borrowings, as do the PFI/"partnership" commitments that are excluded.
The truth (and unfortunately a lot of untruth) is in the blogs these days.
Here's one - goo.gl/UEfwBT . My favourite sentence is "For example, the Cabinet Office’s Efficiency and Reform Group costs £72 million a year to run." Haven't time to research that now, but if it's true there really is no hope.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 15 Dec 13 at 10:50
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Of course we are all doomed who isn't?
A week ago we had flooding,lucky the river barrier managed to stop most of the damage .High water tide was about a foot from the top of the barrier.Water defences are nowhere near good enough next time we will be swimming..;)
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>> High water tide was about a foot from the top of the barrier.Water defences
>> are nowhere near good enough
Well clearly they were 11 inches too generous.
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What you wish for others will come to you one day Z.
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Merely saying if you had been there in 53 you would have got wet, and rather than moaning and whining about the fact there was only a foot spare, how about saying Thank You to the engineers who clearly got it so very right this time despite the fact the surge tide was the highest ever seen.
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I would be the first to admit that I'm no economist but the film clip seemed to put forward some very basic facts which to me made some sense. However if anyone more enlightened than me care to put forward a counter argument I'm all ears.
As I see it bottom line is the country is deeper in debt than it was before Austerity. So how are we going to service that debt because at some point there will be foreclosures on that debt.
If you take Greece as an example those with cash in the bank had their savings raided. What would stop that happening here?
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>> was before Austerity. So how are we going to service that debt because at some
>> point there will be foreclosures on that debt.
Why? the country has been jn debt since the end of WW1. Its never been repaid, never been foreclosed and never will be be. Our savings have already been raided (taxes on pensions, pension pots and pension funds)
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>>
>> >> was before Austerity. So how are we going to service that debt because at
>> some
>> >> point there will be foreclosures on that debt.
>>
>> Why? the country has been jn debt since the end of WW1. Its never been
>> repaid, never been foreclosed and never will be be. Our savings have already been raided
>> (taxes on pensions, pension pots and pension funds)
The bits you are missing is the interest thereon, and the need to keep borrowing more. At some point interest rates will rise, and the cost of servicing the debt will be unaffordable, without either borrowing more to pay it, defaulting on some of it, raising taxes on those who can't dodge them (us) and inflating it away, which will slaughter your savings and your pension income unless you have a public sector inflation linked pension.
A bankrupt man can't be helped by lending him more money, but he can put off the bankruptcy. Unfortunately we will reach a point where, like Greece, we can't borrow any more money so that will cease to be a way to deal with it.
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>> The bits you are missing is the interest thereon,
Not missing it. Interest is not a new phenomena.
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"Its never been repaid, never been foreclosed and never will be be".
Well never is a long time but you are basically right. There is no problem with being in debt a long as you can keep up the payments and the lender is confidant of that fact. That applies to countries as much as individuals.
Historically the UK doesn't default, Greece does. Countries like China have to put their money somewhere. The UK is a safer place in which to invest than than most countries.
Despite all the doom and gloom merchants the UK is a wealthier, more stable, more democratic and more law abiding country than nearly everywhere else in the world and we are lucky enough to live here. We aren't doomed * - far from it .
* Does not apply to Norwich City.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 15 Dec 13 at 18:20
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>> Despite all the doom and gloom merchants the UK is a wealthier, more stable, more
>> democratic and more law abiding country than nearly everywhere else in the world and we
>> are lucky enough to live here. We aren't doomed * - far from it .
Luck had nothing to do with it. We - and our forbears - made it this way.
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The luck element was being born here.
I'm not sure however that the the wealth and prosperity can be attributed solely to our and our ancestors efforts. Being an island with some of the most fertile farmland in the world, a benign climate, mineral wealth and a key situation on the world' s trading routes might have helped a little bit.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 15 Dec 13 at 19:16
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>> The luck element was being born here.
>>
>> I'm not sure however that the the wealth and prosperity can be attributed solely to
>> our and our ancestors efforts. Being an island with some of the most fertile farmland
>> in the world, a benign climate, mineral wealth and a key situation on the world'
>> s trading routes might have helped a little bit.
>>
Not to mention the efforts and character of the people.
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All of course the efforts of the population have some effect on the wealth of a nation but I very much doubt that the average English peasant has over the centuries worked harder than the average Greek. As for national character what is that?
No the reason for the UK' s wealth over the centuries is mainly down to geographical features combined with mainly strong governance and the stability resulting from being a relatively easily defended island.
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Not to mention the conscienceless mass murder, pillage and enslavement on a global scale. That helped.
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>> Not to mention the conscienceless mass murder, pillage and enslavement on a global scale.
Our ability to create and maintain a world wide empire was largely dependant on our fortunate geographical location.
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Undoubtedly, and indeed our propensity and willingness to take what we wanted both in terms of land, goods and the very people of those lands with or without their acquiescence and to kill them if they resisted or sometimes just kill them anyway.
Then to re-write history in such a way as to suggest that in fact we were actually doing them a favour.
A common enough thread in empires.
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>> Undoubtedly, and indeed our propensity and willingness to take what we wanted both in terms
>> of land, goods and the very people of those lands with or without their acquiescence
>> and to kill them if they resisted or sometimes just kill them anyway.
>>
>> Then to re-write history in such a way as to suggest that in fact we
>> were actually doing them a favour.
Give it a rest, we are offering you lot your independence again.
But they will probably vote for the continuance of the rape, pillage and murder...
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What a stupid remark. Even for you.
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>> What a stupid remark. Even for you.
It was a joke, seeing as you had gone all po faced and suddenly developed a conscience. Don't see you throwing your lifestyle in for the betterment of third world countries, so don't start having a poke at me you hypocrite.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 15 Dec 13 at 22:05
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I would like you to withdraw that exceptionally rude comment.
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>> No, fully justified.
Do you have to act like a twonk at certain phases of the moon?
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>>It was a joke
"something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote"
That'll be 0 for 4 then.
Mind you, neither did I think it was *that* offensive. Just Zero being Zero.
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I don't consider it acting like a twonk under any phase of the moon, it was, by any measure, a justifiable response (with a measure of truth) to an unjustified personal insult.
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>> >> Undoubtedly, and indeed our propensity and willingness to take what we wanted both in
>> terms
>> >> of land, goods and the very people of those lands with or without their
>> acquiescence
>> >> and to kill them if they resisted or sometimes just kill them anyway.
I doubt very much that the English were or have any greater propensity to do these things than any other people. In my view human nature is pretty much a constant throughout the world and alway has been.
The interesting thing is if human nature and intelligence is a constant then why do some countries prosper and some do not. When you begin to analyse it so much of what we deem success is down to geography but our leaders have never been keen on stressing this factor. Wonder why?
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"The meek shall inherit the Earth".
Just the earth - no food, no comfort, no quality of life.
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Surely Zero and Humph were putting it on and not actually quarrelling? Badinage, it looked like to me.
Yes, the British are special, for numerous reasons. They are no more venal and brutal than anyone else, but through various bits of luck they were in on the ground floor with all sorts of technological advances which they exploited well, and for geographical and ethnic reasons had a lot of input into the (current, but all things pass) dominant political system too. There is a worldwide British diaspora and signs of influence and investment almost everywhere.
Other West European nations have had quite similar histories and are similarly special, no one should doubt it. Competing, often superior philosophic, scientific and technological advances. Blind luck and a bit of effort have served us well historically.
But nothing lasts for ever. All things pass. Nothing to be smug about, specialness. Everyone has it in their own fashion.
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I wouldn't agree with the word " special" . It implies we are somehow different to other peoples. We are fortunate yes. As I said geographical factors which in turn have enabled our history and governments to develop in a certain way have been in the past extremely favourable and indeed continue to be but a belief that the English are somehow special and have unique characteristics that others lack seems to me absurd..
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>and have unique characteristics that others lack seems to me absurd
I think its very difficult to understand the differences and how they arise; For example the average Latino and the average Gringo, accepting for one moment that such things exist, seem to me to be quite dramatically different.
I don't believe that actually comes from any inherent difference in the person, it comes from the environment in which they, their friends and family and their society exists and has existed as well as accidents of environment.
However, that difference manifests itself in the person in such a fundamental way that I find it almost indistinguishable from "in built" differences.
Its the attaching of value to difference, or at least one difference over another, which makes it all go wrong.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 15 Dec 13 at 23:30
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>> a belief that the English are somehow special and have unique characteristics that others lack seems to me absurd..
Seems to me absurd to deny it. It's just that I don't think it implies any specially superior qualities on our part, it just fell like that in prehistory and history. Our apogee as an imperial power was quite recent, but it's just embers now.
Jeez CGN, lots of places had empires, armies and navies, aspired to rule Europe and the world. Ask Dutchie or any French or German or Italian or Greek person for example, and too many others to name.
But we've all read Ozymandias.
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>> Merely saying if you had been there in 53 you would have got wet, and
>> rather than moaning and whining about the fact there was only a foot spare, how
>> about saying Thank You to the engineers who clearly got it so very right this
>> time despite the fact the surge tide was the highest ever seen.
>>
I remember walking along the south bank once when they had those extra concrete blocks on top of the original wall. The water was lapping the top of the blocks and sometimes blowing over in the wind. It was a bit worrying walking underneath millions of tons of Thames just waiting to flood over.
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Were all doomed, doomed, I say! - madf
