I am planning of going away again in late May/Early June. I do want to end up in a resort in Spain for a few days (the usual Salou area probably). My idea is to get the train there and get the coach back via Ferris coaches (who want £70 from Salou to Manchester single).
To get there the normal route by train is Manchester > London > Paris > Port Bou (sleeper) > Barcelona and then another train to destination.
I thought since I am saving a fortune by getting the coach back I would spend a couple of nights in southern France and maybe on Northern France so I can get the TGV instead of the sleeper train to Barcelona.
Where would be a good place to stop in Southern France? Ideally some where on the med but not as far down or as expensive as the Rivera? I am thinking some where in the Montpellier region would make sense.
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Take the Panda!!
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 3 Dec 13 at 12:47
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Considering the furthest I have driven by myself is Derbyshire it won't happen. As I said before I hate driving, the idea of driving abroad fills me with dread. I had a job in Cheshire a couple of weeks ago, in Wilmslow and I considered that a long drive!
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Sun 1 Dec 13 at 18:15
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As I said before I hate driving, the idea of driving abroad fills me with dread.
Well you won't get rid of that sitting on a bus. :-)
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>> Take the Panda!!
Yes, for heaven's sake Sheikha, you really should. With the right friend or friends - one is best, either gender but a capable girl if you know one well - it will be pure pleasurable adventure all the way. And you can go wherever you like and stop as long as you like! Free at last!
Driving on the wrong side of the road really isn't difficult after a few minutes. You just have to stay awake and not try to go the wrong way round roundabouts.
Go for it man FFS.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 3 Dec 13 at 12:46
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Colliore is nice. But if I could add...
>> Take the Panda!!
;-)
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 3 Dec 13 at 12:46
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Manchester to Salou is 2400 miles plus a return channel crossing plus at least one night stop each way. Rattle doesn't like driving at all and hasn't ever driven on the Continent (I think). Taking the car would be a very bad idea for anyone but particularly for him, I think
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Exactly and with fuel costs it would be very expensive too, plus I love railways and travelling by train. I am not so much of a fan of the coach but its cheap and relaxing so I can put up with it.
I am not a natural driver at all, and all this has been discussed in the past. I just wanted ideas of places to stop off in France with a slight detour in southern France. I would love to go over the border into Italy but I think it would just get too expensive.
I also have sleeping problems especially when I am away, if get three hours alseep when I am getting the train it doesn't matter, 3 hours sleep when driving is an issue.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Sun 1 Dec 13 at 18:52
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>> with fuel costs it would be very expensive too,
In a Panda, with costs shared between two? Do me a favour.
You haven't got the hang of this holiday lark Sheikha. It's bound to cost you something to have a good creative time. A cheeseparing approach can be a terrible mistake, you can end up with the worst of both worlds.
No, I don't just mean chuck money at it. That is often a mistake and ensures poor value. But there's a happy medium.
(I note that you are a railway freak. That's OK of course. But perhaps you're trying to do too many things at once).
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"I just wanted ideas of places to stop off in France with a slight detour in southern France. I would love to go over the border into Italy but I think it would just get too expensive."
Have a look at a map Rattle. If you are heading for Spain then a quick trip over the border into Italy ain't really a viable option.
If you are heading south by rail towards Spain then there are many, many towns in France you could stop at, stay overnight in a "Logis" and have an explore, sit in a café or two and watch the world go by, have a nice meal, bottle of wine and then head for Spain.
How about staying a day or two in Paris, Amiens, (fantastic cathedral surrounded by cafes), Chartres (bloomin' fantastic cathedral and cafes) Loire Valley? Tours, Angers, (loads of nice chateaux to visit and cafes), Brive, Bordeaux, Toulouse, Cahors, Perpignan and, yes Montpellier.
Almost anywhere will do.
Just go for it.
But Italy? Yes, lovely place (and cafes!) but a bit out of your way so save for next year.
www.logishotels.com/en/map-search.html
By the way, South of France and especially Riviera is VERY busy (and expensive) in Summer. Worth seeking some more "out of the way" places?
P
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"By the way, South of France and especially Riviera is VERY busy (and expensive) in Summer. Worth seeking some more "out of the way" places?"
Thinking of Bordeaux, then Atlantic Coast such as Arcachon, Biscarrosse, down towards Biarritz. Still very busy at peak summer times (esp August) but fantastic beaches, surf, seafood (and cafes!)
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>> Thinking of Bordeaux, then Atlantic Coast such as Arcachon, Biscarrosse, down towards Biarritz. Still very
>> busy at peak summer times (esp August) but fantastic beaches, surf, seafood (and cafes!)
Slighty north perhaps, La Rochelle?
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>> Slighty north perhaps, La Rochelle?
Pretty much anywhere in France is going to be busy in early August. We camp rather than B&B and latterly stuck to municipal and small private sites with basic facilities. Even there and in off beat places like Le Mont Dore or more remote bits of Alsace the 'Camping Complet' sign is often out by 18:00 in peak.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 1 Dec 13 at 20:16
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"Slighty north perhaps, La Rochelle?"
Yep Z, another v. nice town (with lovely cafes down by the port area!) and in easy reach of Ile de Re, Ile d'Oleron etc. In fact, a good holiday could be had just going down that W coast of France.
And we haven't even mentioned North of La Rochelle - Brittany? Lovely coves, beaches and towns (though weather a bit like Cornwall! - unpredictable!)
P
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See Michael Portillo on on BBC 2 NOW!
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>> Manchester to Salou is 2400 miles plus a return channel crossing
Not channel, Bay of Biscay. 200 miles or so to Portsmouth, overnight to Santander, however far it is to Salou. Back via Paris and a knees-up in the Crazy Horse Saloon (optional) and the channel by all means.
If the Sheikh hates driving then obviously the companion he chooses needs to be a willing and capable driver.
Why let yourself in for a programmed trip with long waits in queues and everything planned out in advance? Sounds like being a schoolkid or prisoner of war. I would so, so hate it.
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The only planned bits are the train connections, last time I did it have a four and a half hour wait at St Pancras but other than it was fine. Last time I had about 12 hours in Paris with no plans whats so ever other than where the metro system took me :).
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>> FLY!
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>>
Good plan, the cheapo airlines are like a bus service anyway, just a hell of a lot quicker. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 1 Dec 13 at 20:32
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Portsmouth to Santander return, in August, is between £800 and £900, depending on what time/date crossing one chooses.
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I don't remember it being very expensive. We did it one way, and booked in advance online. The small airless cabin cost extra though.
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As I said before it is far far easier for me to get to London than Portsmouth. I have looked into the ferry at Portsmouth but I would have to stay there the night and it just works out far more expensive than the train.
If you're driving then it is great because it cuts out the drive through France but I am not.
I will forget Italy, it is too far East so will visit some stay the night some where in central France before moving onto the south of France then into Spain.
Depending how busy I am and how much money I have I may also take a trip to Northern Europe around March, maybe to West Germany.
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Interesting rail trip by Michael Portillo from Bordeaux to Bilbao on TV earller tonight. Hope you will be travelling in similar style Rattle, dressed in a purple jacket, clutching a copy of Bradshaw's guide and packing an Edwardian striped bathing suit. Looks rather fun.
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Portillo's dress sense eh....sheeesh...
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Rather admire the chap actually. Made a decent second career as a presenter and really rather good at it.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 1 Dec 13 at 23:16
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I am big fan of the series, learnt quite a lot about UK and European history from him.
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I do hope you have an ancient copy of Bradshaw to plan your trip Rattle.
Actually Bordeaux, as others have suggested, would make a sensible and interesting place to visit for a day or two en-route. Those patisseries looked rather good.
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I agree that M Portillo is pretty cool. Far more articulate and with far more political nous than most TV pundits (as he should be of course as a former minister).
On places to go in France: small towns and villages are best and cheapest. It's not hard to find somewhere near any sights you may want to see. But without a car they are less easy of access, along with their very good and cheap by our standards auberges and b&b places. Bus and train lumber you with mass destinations by and large.
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I think probably you would enjoy driving, I also suspect that you'll do it one day and regret not doing it before.
However, it is a holiday not an exercise in pleasing others, so if you like to do it by train/coach, and that is what makes you comfortable for a holiday, then good luck to you - do it your way and enjoy it.
As for somewhere to stop then I wouldn't stop in Montpelier; its an awful place in my opinion. I'd think Bordeaux would be a good choice, Cognac is rather nice too.
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Watching the program as I type this, Bordeaux does look like it is worth worth visiting. I will need to work out all the logistics but I am hoping via TVG I can get there in a day from Manchester although I might need to stay the night in London, don't think I can handle another four and a half hours trying to kip on a bench in a freezing cold station again!.
I do have a Bradshaws guide too,but the British one.
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Just checked the route, it is very cheap from Paris to Bordeaux but to get to Barcelona I would need change at Narbonne is that worth stopping over at?
It looks from London at least I can easily get to Bordeaux for around 2:00pm if I get the first Eurostar in the morning.
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>> probably you would enjoy driving, I also suspect that you'll do it one day and regret not doing it before.
I think that too. But the Sheikh has or thinks he has a severe anxiety problem. If he identifies its source it will diminish. The real source may not be the most obvious or apparent one, that's the trouble.
You're right about Montpellier too FMR. Hideous in high season.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 2 Dec 13 at 00:51
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Paris sucks, South of France is much nicer. Lyon, Toulouse, Marseille etc all worth a visit. Or head slightly east first and go via Brussels / Bruges and then make your way South. Or try making for Switzerland, not too expensive if you backpack and aim for yoof hostels. Easy train network too. From Geneva / Basel / Zurich you could also make the very short flight into Spain.
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Bordeaux is well worth a stop-over and easy to do by Eurostar/TGV within a day. The new TGV link from Bordeaux to Spain starts on the 15th of this month, apparently.
Narbonne is OK but only for a day.
If you are tempted towards Montpellier, Rats, don't go near Cap d'Agde. You'll have the fright of your young life.
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Narbonne is a nice little town but as you say probably only worth a day. If you are interested in Roman history there are some fascinating old ruins of a sort of granary /warehouse you can explore
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Bordeaux is a good suggestion. Well worth a day's stopover.
An alternative for 'more out of the way' as suggested above is Eurostart to Lille, then TGV to Limoges. Take a day in Limoges (Oradour has been mentioned several times on here, and is accessible by bus from Limoges, or there's a preserved steam railway runs east) then onwards to Bordeaux and Irun.
The Lille-Limoges TGV runs Thursday-Sunday (it goes on to Brive la Galliarde), leaving Lille in the afternoon, so you'd make a same day connection from St Pancras. Have a look at voyages-sncf.fr for times and fares. Google the man in Seat 61 for some tips on which trains run where, and which are the best seats.
Or, head for Poitiers (or nearby Futuroscope, served by its own TGV statin) and you're already on the line to Bordeaux.
I think there's a cross-country connection from Montpellier towards Spain, but it'd be a day's journey to get to the Spanish border.
Also Rats, if your French is up to it, book on the .fr site, not the international one - the promotional rates quoted on the domestic SNCF website are better. Just opt to collect your tickets from the "Borne" (kiosk), all of which are multilingual, so it doesn't get in a flap about where in France to send your tickets! And one last tip from the SNCF ticket desk in Paris Charles de Gaulle: the fewer connections you make on your journey, inevitably the cheaper the fare, because you're occupying fewer reserved seats along the way I was told. Strange but true...
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My French is about as good as my Spanish, useless but I itending to brush up on both before I go.
Lille is a very good suggestion as a starting point, I haven't been there for ten years so it will be nice to go back. I like the idea of avoiding Paris.
Is only a few hours to the Spanish border, it took me six hours to the journey from Paris to Barcelona via the TGV but that was because the night train was on strike, so I had to sleep on a train at a train station, then get the TGV the next day.
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Do you have to go to the Med coast of Spain Rattle?
Just thinking that if you head down towards Bordeaux, then perhaps Biarritz, which is beautiful, then towards the North coast of Spain (like Portillo) People have told me that that coast is spectacular. Mind you, one of those people was a native of the area so he might have been biased. Others will know this area better than me.
Beware that ALL coastal resorts in France and Spain are VERY busy in August - but that might be part of the attraction!
Futuroscope near Poitiers is well worth a visit! Google it.
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>>My French is about as good as my Spanish, useless but I itending to brush up on both before I go
When I knew I was going to need Spanish, I did a two week immersion course. It was hard. Really, really hard. It involved staying with a family in their home, speaking only Spanish, and 8 hours school tuition a day for 6 days each week.
At the end I was totally wrecked; but I'd gone from nothing to conversational social Spanish in two weeks. I did it in Costa Rica (and you can't get a bus from Manchester to there) but I'd guess the same must be available in Europe.
It will make a world of difference to future holidays if you can chat to people in their language.
I would thoroughly recommend the approach.
EDIT: &, by the way, I have ZERO talent in foreign languages, but anyone can learn a basic level.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 2 Dec 13 at 18:36
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I just like the Costa Brava because its cheap. I like to get a bit of culture hence ideas of places to stop of at the way, but I also like the stereotypical working class resorts with cheap beer, cheap food and good night life. I also plan of getting the return coach from the costa brava.
I have several months to learn Spanish so no need to do any intense thing. I did learn Spanish in school up to you year 9, but I don't remember any of it, I found languages quite hard and boring but at the time I had no motivation at all.
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Dos cervesas por favor - or if in Andalucia, "doh cevesa f'vor" is enough, surely?
Bonna dia y de nada. (Mas o menos).
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You hardly need to speak Spanish if you intend to holiday in resorts where restaurants show pictures of the food on their menus.
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Even when staying at resorts I tend to travel around outside the tourist traps. Tarragona is an example of an excellent city I could have enjoyed more if I had known some of the language.
It is just a respect thing too, even if I can only say a few words to be able to order a Pizza or understand a tapas menu it will be a big bonus.
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I don't think there's a need to speak Spanish as such, but it opens up a lot more things if you do.
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63 years since a lorry dropped me and my then gf in Tarragona, where we then stayed for a fortnight. We got drunk the same evening on local bubble with the truck driver and some of his local mates, conversing in a patchwork of Latinoid pidgins. The truck we arrived in had a replacement engine - Perkins, the driver said proudly.
The Sheikh is right, it's a nice place. Got a well-preserved small Roman amphitheatre. I think we were there in summer... anyway a couple of evenings at sunset the sky turned an absolutely unbelievable colour.
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>> You hardly need to speak Spanish if you intend to holiday in resorts where restaurants
>> show pictures of the food on their menus.
Now that's the stuff that gets me together with people who realise I'm not French/Spanish or whatever and address me in English from start.
My French is some way from conversational but good enough to get by in restaurants, filling stations and even with a motoring breakdown. I can cope with ordering food/drink and finding the loo in Spanish or German.
I just wish they'd let me exhaust my vocabulary before resorting to scrambled or even decent English.
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2014 France/Spain trip - suggestions - Bromptonaut
