www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mountsorrel-dog-attack-lexi-hudson-2680156
Do those who infer questionable parenting from a 14 and 16 year old being out at 4am have a view on keeping a dog in a house with a small child in it?
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Big dog, from a rescue centre according to the report I heard.
EDIT: although I have just read that police have confirmed it's not the mastiff seen in some pictures
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 6 Nov 13 at 10:45
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Yes, a bit odd that. The Telegraph (paper one) this morning has a picture of a different dog - still a big ugly one, but definitely not the one in the Mirror.
Edit - this one - goo.gl/ZcjCKH
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 6 Nov 13 at 10:53
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Another tragedy for another family. Not enough fact to question parenting, certainly know plenty of families over years have managed to keep a dog and a small child in happy proximity. OTOH Mrs B's cousin had to pass his otherwise well behaved collie to his parents becuase of its agggressive response to his first born.
Zero will be along in a minute to give us a line or two on dog psychology. At root of many of these cases is fact that dog owners in general are pretty ill informed on pack animal behaviour and it's manifestations.
Friends have two dogs, an elderly male Dalmatian and a two year old show Cocker bitch. Both are neutered. The Cocker is incredibly tolerant of being handled, a perfect lap dog. The older dog is big and clumsy and has no discrimination on what he eats so needs top be confined to the (well heated) porch when human food is about. When the Dalmatian is being led out however she growls and barks in a very aggressive fashion - either defending the other dog or jealous of his getting attention. There's some sort of pack behaviour in eveidence for sure.
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There's always a lot of hysteria when a child dies for any reason, but stuff happens and I doubt the number of children killed by dogs each year would come anywhere close to being a recordable statistic.
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Apparently the dog had been with the family for a few weeks from a rescue home. It reportedly attacked the child and the mother attacked the dog with a knife to try to save the child, who sadly died anyway.
I cannot imagine what the Mother is going through.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 6 Nov 13 at 11:39
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I would not have a dog when I didn't *know* its history, and the first sign of aggression issues would mean it was put down.
Tolerating a dog which shows *any* aggressive tendencies is daft. and if it has an unknown history then doubly so.
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If it is a pure French mastiff (and the telegraph picture looks like a crossbreed of one) then its a very powerful dog indeed. Excellent dogs for those who know how to handle them, usually loyal friendly, very protective of its family, its not a dog for those who don't know how to promote pack hierarchy.
From a rehoming centre, with previous history of abuse, Its a dog I would have been very wary of for quite a while. Two months is certainly not long enough to be sure of leaving it with your kids.
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>> If it is a pure French mastiff
"Lexi, four, is pictured with a French mastiff. Police have confirmed this is not the dog that attacked her"
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2487849/Leicester-girl-dies-bitten-dog-Mountsorrel.html
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 6 Nov 13 at 11:50
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A friend of ours has a rescue dog, quite old now but she's had it about 5 years. Must have been about that age when she got it. It looks like a wolf, or Alsatian, but smaller.
Normally placid, timid even, but it has bitten several people, all men, one of them twice. Fortunately it doesn't hang on, but has usually drawn blood. This has happened pretty much out of the blue, but usually when the victim has been talking to the owner.
I try to ignore it and avoid sudden movements when it's around (I normally only see it if I drop in to the pub). It hasn't actually bitten anybody for a while, either because it's calmed down or because people have learned to avoid it.
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From my limited experience, within my large village, the best temperament rescue dogs seem to be greyhounds.
Last edited by: Meldrew on Wed 6 Nov 13 at 12:19
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Rescue Greyhounds? Cant abide them. Lazy miserable sulky uncommunicative things. Only beaten into the miserable stakes by the whippet.
Pity really, a greyhound puppy is fabulous fun. Then they grow up.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 6 Nov 13 at 12:22
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It is very sad. Why on earth there is a police investigation is beyond me. The poor mother has enough to cope with without the herberts bothering her. Honestly, have they not got proper criminals to catch?
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If a child has died there is a possibility that a crime may have been committed; think of baby P and that poor Polish lad. Perhaps you think this a good use of police resources?
www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Police-discipline-boy-flicking-elastic-band/story-20033562-detail/story.html
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Are you kidding?!!!!! No wonder they're never about when you actually need one!
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Not many children killed by the family cat, even rescue cats.
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I don't really get why anybody would want an animal in a house when they have small children. Neither dog nor cat. Actually, I don't really get why anybody would want an animal in the house. I have a cat (or it has me in so far as it was born in the garden to a stray) and it's allowed in the kitchen if I'm at home, but not at night. That's it. A dog would run to the same privileges.
And as for said dog being a 10 stone rescue dog when there are tiny children in the house... mother was lucky not to be savaged when trying to attack it with the knife.
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not had any kids either have you.
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Children likewise. Messy things.
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>> not had any kids either have you.
Come on, grow a pair you miserable pathetic excuse for a human and own up to the scowly face for my last post. Which as it happened was factual.
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Scowly face not from me. I've just given you a thumbs up, actually!
Love dogs myself. I once had many dozens of them in my care, knew them all by name and their likes and dislikes. But not in my house thanks.
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>> 10 stone
Not that it makes much difference but where did that come from?
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>> >> 10 stone
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>> Not that it makes much difference but where did that come from?
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BBC website said French mastiff. Note it's now a bulldog so rather smaller, but even so. Repulsive things!
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>> >> >> 10 stone
>> >>
>> >> Not that it makes much difference but where did that come from?
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>> BBC website said French mastiff. Note it's now a bulldog so rather smaller, but even
>> so. Repulsive things!
Picture of bulldog here - might not be 10 stone, but does look pretty substantial:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2487849/Leicester-girl-dies-bitten-dog-Mountsorrel.html
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Thats no pure bred bulldog, there is something else in there.
Have to say tho, it does look very docile there, nice body language.
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"I don't really get why anybody would want an animal in the house."
Me too. I have my fish. I feed the birds in the garden. And I've adopted a hamster which the daughter lost interest in.
But anything that poops, pees and vomits like a human but can't aim and operate the toilet, then it isn't living near me. (Dogs, cats and students)
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>> I don't really get why anybody would want an animal in a house when they have small children.
>> Neither dog nor cat. Actually, I don't really get why anybody would want an animal in the house.
>> And as for said dog being a 10 stone rescue dog when there are tiny children in the house...
mother was lucky not to be savaged when trying to attack it with the knife.
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It was discussed on LBC radio this morning.
Why would you have an animal in the house that you could not "deal with" just using your hands?
Cats can wander into another house and sleep on a baby. That's what pram / cot nets were designed to prevent.
Responsible pet re-housing places do not allow adoption if a child under twelve is in the family.
From the press reports is not certain what dog was involved
We had neither fur nor feathers in our house in case SWMBOs breathing was affected.
Our children's pets were a tortoise and Guinea Pigs but although housed outside the pigs were allowed indoors and did not affect SWMBO.
The lifespan of the pigs was short enough to allow the novelty to wear off :-)
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he poor mother has enough to cope with without the herberts bothering her. Honestly, have they not got proper criminals to catch?
The Police will be investigating on behalf of the Coroner a sudden and unexplained death.
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>> Rescue Greyhounds? Cant abide them. Lazy miserable sulky uncommunicative things. Only beaten into the miserable
>> stakes by the whippet.
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>> Pity really, a greyhound puppy is fabulous fun. Then they grow up.
>>
Whippet / Collie cross makes one of the best dogs ever. Brilliant personality, totally friendly, pong-free, convenient size, very intelligent, and none of the usual Collie neuroses. Hybrid vigour etc.
Of course, there's always the possibility of getting the brains of the whippet and the speed of the Collie, but you pays your money and takes your chance.
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>> Of course, there's always the possibility of getting the brains of the whippet and the
>> speed of the Collie, but you pays your money and takes your chance.
Tea/keyboard issue!! PMSL
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Dogs stink, slobber, bark, carp everywhere, are so dumb they can't go for a walk by themselves , are dangerous (one recently savaged my cat) and, worst of all, they like me. Some are racialist: when my daughter was bitten by a dog in France, the owner said it was "nor-mal", her dog was French and didn't like the British. It cost her, mind you. She had by law to pay for three successive inspections by a vet, whose certifications that the animal was free of rabies had to be sent to me.
Apart from guide and sheepdogs, I can't see why these pests are allowed to flourish.
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>> Dogs stink, slobber, bark, carp everywhere, are so dumb they can't go for a walk
>> by themselves , are dangerous (one recently savaged my cat)
>>
>>
I can show you whole estates full of people like that.
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>>>I can show you whole estates full of people like that.
Yes and we know what sort of dogs they keep!
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>>>I don't really get why anybody would want an animal in the house.
We've kept a dog (well 3 so far) all of our married life and I'd never want to be without one. We choose companion dogs not working dogs.
I think the average family lifestyle and average family understanding of animals is ill suited to most of the hunting, working, guard type breeds... unless for some reason you have researched and got to know a specific breed and are prepared to put its needs/training before all else.
I'm sorry but it's my view most of the Staffs on steroids types should be put down at the rescue centres and not re-homed with the no cats/other dogs/children provisos as they do.
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>>Apart from guide and sheepdogs, I can't see why these pests are allowed to flourish.
Those people in the flying saucers, observing the yumans following their mutts around and reverently picking up their faeces, have probably concluded that the dogs are in charge here.
I don't get it either, but I know several intelligent and educated folk, with good eyesight and no sheep, who go in for them so I just file it under 'live and let live' as long as they don't expect me to share their enthusiasm.
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>> I just file it under 'live and let live'
Me too. I like (agreeable) dogs and can quite understand why people keep them. But I am not prepared for the commitment and hassle of keeping one myself. Even our nice little cat is a pain in some ways.
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Bulldog according to the BBC. My Cocker can be iffy if he takes a dislike to someone (especially women), his behaviour has improved a lot since the Springer arrived. They get on together quite well, occasional squabble and some posturing. He likes kids.
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>> He likes kids.
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Fortunately he couldn't eat a whole one.
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My view of dogs and their owners is coloured by the three attacks I had when running. Two bites drew blood through clothing.
The owners need to be spayed.
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Dog bites are an occupational hazard for me, working door to door. Nothing serious touch wood, but I detest Jack Russels. They're evil little things and kicking the crap out of them wouldn't go down too well so I just have to smilingly fend them off while the owner tries to reassure me, "He's only playing, he wouldn't hurt you". He damn well would, and why have I got a rip in my trouser leg?
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Wouldn’t be without my dog although he can be a pain when he wakes me up at 5am wanting his walk, jumping and leaping around on the bed, usually getting me in the nuts a couple of times as well. If that doesn’t wake me then I get the slobbery tongue and doggy breath treatment all over my face.
The walk at 5:30am across the fields and through the woods is my favourite time of day, particularly on cold frosty mornings, seeing the wildlife waking up just makes me feel relaxed.
Then when I get back from work about 4:30pm he’s manic to see me, even if you’ve had a bad day all that soon evaporates away when faced with such a nice welcome.
Can’t imagine not having a dog.
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Terrible accident so sad.French Mastiff in a flat out of a rescue home?
These Dogs belong to a strong willed owner what was his history?They are powerfull animals and if they loose their temper this is the result.
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Los gatos son muy sympatico
No me gustan los perros.
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You glossolaliating? Question Time could be more interesting than usual tomorrow.
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Esoteric in the extreme, Manatee!
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Dogs are pack animals. That's why you have to make sure that they are very aware YOU are the pack leader.
Always considered labradors the most gentle and friendly of dogs overall and their wonderful temperament means they are great with children.
But of course any dog usually only behaves the way the owner brings it up.......
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>>Always considered labradors the most gentle and friendly of dogs overall and their >>wonderful temperament means they are great with children.
Exactly why I got one. He will lick you to death!
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>>Exactly why I got one. He will lick you to death!>>
We had three over a period of about 45 years...:-)
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>> Always considered labradors the most gentle and friendly of dogs overall and their wonderful temperament
>> means they are great with children.
The only dog I have ever been bitten by was a black lab. I was a child/young teen at the time. I had done nothing to provoke it other than to enter its garden (that of my uncle who owned the dog).
You need to be wary of all dogs, familiar and unfamiliar. I have a Jack Russell, and will always keep a dog as long as I'm capable. Essential part of the family to me. But they must know who's boss. My uncle's labradors (he kept two, housed outside in a kennel run) trained to the gun, and regularly used as such) were larger and stronger than the normal lab, and he didn't mind them being a bit aggressive. He was an irresponsible owner, I believe.
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I live in the next village to mountsorrell ( 2miles ) and the village just past that is rothley were the Mccanns (missing school girl) have a doctors practice... and they say nothing happens around here
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DM now reporting that the mastiff seen in some pictures had been staying with family, but only 'for a while' - might have affected bulldog's behaviour?
Also reporting that the rescue home had a sign advising that dog was unsuitable for people with small children, but mother was told it was ok as long as it wasn't allowed to jump up.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2489252/Lexi-Hudsons-grans-fury-animal-charity-rehomed-bulldog-killed-girl.html
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 7 Nov 13 at 13:43
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"A friend said"
Better sources then normal for the Daily Mail. What a foul rag that is.
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>> What a foul rag that is.
It is, but I don't see this story as a particularly good example of its foulness. The implication that the dog refuge was responsible in some way for the child's death came from distressed friends and relations who are quoted. Of course the dog refuge bears little or no responsibility.
The dog's owners are responsible. If you are going to have a very strong fierce expressionless pooch you really need to know its whole history, to have raised it yourself from a pup. Perhaps foolish ignorant people should be banned from having that sort of dog at all. But how are they to be identified?
Just one of those things really. Accidents will happen. People over 21 have to be treated as adults even though some are like hyperactive six-year-olds.
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As long as so many owners look on dogs as furry humans there will be this sort of tragedy. I know sod all about dogs, but I know they aren't people. They don't have human thoughts, feelings and motives, Greyfriars Bobby notwithstanding.
Clearly some breeds display more aggression that others, but given they are all genetically wolves they all have it in them somewhere.
And what was all that rubbish about not letting it jump up? What were they to do, get its agreement in writing?
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man and wolf have a long long association, the wolf first being a rival of man, and then after being one of the first animals man tamed, working together for mutual benefit.
Its one of the few and earliest instances where feelings and sensibilities are shared and understood across a species boundary.
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>> The only dog I have ever been bitten by was a black lab.
How interesting Alanović. They can be charming gentle dogs like Zero's, but I met a nasty one once along with its nasty owner.
Walking alone late at night near our old gaff in the Grove, became aware of something behind me and saw a black Labrador, head and tail low, coming quickly up behind me and only five feet from nipping at my heels. Saturnine bloke in a raincoat holding a chain lead in his hand a few yards behind it. I stopped, the pooch showed its teeth and didn't back off, and I told the bloke roundly that he had a damn rude dog. He didn't look or sound at all sorry, or reattach the lead, but the dog didn't come any closer. Had the confidence and arrogance of a petty official about him.
It didn't occur to me until later that they might both have been off-duty drug fuzz, and the pooch might have caught a whiff of old dope smoke off my trousers or something. If so it can't have been a very unusual experience for it in that part of town. I found it all slightly sinister though.
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Not a dog person at all although I'm happy to pet those belonging to friends and family.
Like others I'm wary of Jack Russells. When I was a kid a neighbour had one that always ran out of their drive yapping violently and sounding like it meant business when ever anyone went past.
Later, doing that right of passage thing of being in trafalgar sq on NYE I stepped/staggered back and trod on one's foot. Gave me a sharp nip and while no skin was broken it ruined my new Levi's. Must have had teeth like razors.
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>> Like others I'm wary of Jack Russells.
Some can be nasty. Like most breeds. As has already been said, much depends on upbringing and environment. Mine is as a soft as, well, you know the expression.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 7 Nov 13 at 16:03
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>> as a soft as, well, you know the expression.
Aye. 'A big soft tart in red trousers'.
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Only dog that has ever bitten me is a black lab. She was a very sweet shy young dog, and I was looking after her for a couple of days. Obviously she didn't like me and took my arm in her mouth and squeezed. Several jumpers (it was winter) prevented any actual injury, but there was quite bad bruising. Owner said "oh I can't imagine why she did that." I think owners are often terribly stupid about their dogs; it's the shy ones that can be the most likely to snap.
I had an Alsatian for three years. She'd been sacked by the prison service a couple of years earlier for nearly killing a man. Fierce as anything, but always a complete sweetie to me. Never took my eye off her though, and certainly never let her near strangers.
Always treat a dog with the awareness it could kill or maim, and you'll be fine.
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>> Jack Russells.
>> Some can be nasty.
Excitable and not too bright. I know a woman near here whose own pet JR jumped up and disfigured her by biting through her upper lip. Her looks weren't permanently ruined but you can still see the scar.
The dog disappeared forthwith. I think her boy friend shot it, not sure. Farmers don't mess around.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Thu 7 Nov 13 at 17:57
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Both our Spaniels are totally different in the aggression league. The Cocker can present as aggressive, especially in the back of a car - as mentioned he could be a little iffy with certain people, especially females for some reason. Other than that he is the model dog, he's never, ever shown any aggression to me. He's improved by leaps and bounds since the Springer. He's OK with everyone really, tried it on with me once (power struggle) but now knows his place !
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Did you reason with him Rob, or was it an expedient kick from a large biker's boot?
Trouble with people like me is impatience. I am not suitable to be a dog owner.
Heard a long story last night about a 6'8" provincial hood, genuinely nasty and violent, who obtained a chihuahua essentially to provoke passers-by into deserving a spanking, but of which he became very fond.
He was a heavy drinker and one night slumped into his car without looking at the seat first... tee-hee, everyone must have rushed round the corner to even think let alone say...
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Some years ago I went to a house in the country near Ormskirk to look at a motorbike for sale. The owner had collection of bikes and also a GSD chained in front of the garage on a long chain.
Although owner held the dog back, it sniffed at me and then took an exploratory bite at my thigh, just under the family jewels.
By God, did it hurt...no blood but massive bruising. He didn't get a sale that day !
Ted
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Was that a German Shepherd Ted? Only dog that ever bit me too. The moment it entered the room it made a beeline for me, looking nasty, and I put a nervous hand reassuringly on its snout. It went totally berserk and bit my right arm, through clothes, about a dozen times in about one and a half seconds before its Ghanaian owners took it away. Bad bruising like others - not that bad really - and a cut on my little finger.
The owners said: 'He's never done that before. And we got him from white people too.'
You don't have to be racist to be nasty.
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Another child killed by the family dog - Focusless
