After much thought about things following the ''rude awakening'' thread, and SWM's copper daughter reckons it was a potential burglary we have decided to upgrade the burglar alarm.
Son reckons another possible target if this is dodgy might be my old MB, possibly valuable in some eastern european countries in its condition, if not for parts alone.
The present alarm is wired, but we have added 2 x porches and 1 x conservatory since which are not covered and the system must be 20 years old so probably not worth extending, the main house is alarmed and with proper doors between house and plastic extensions but obviously once inside under cover they could work on the main doors in comfort, plus any window could be a possible enrty point.
Thing is i'm no DIY expert, indeed far from it.
Is this something i could tackle with a kit, if so what sort and where from, or should we go with the pro's, if so whom or rather who do we avoid?
Bungalow with 3 beds plus bathroom plus conservatory plus two porches.
Cost isn't so much of a consideration as a good system that we can both operate easily, and i can re-arm quietly when i leave without waking SWM for work early morn.
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If you know who fitted the wired system in the "main" part of the house it might be worth getting it extended / upgraded. A local alarm company fitted my system when the house was built, they service it each year, fixed it when the backup battery died, you pay your money and take your choice. One good system sounds better to me than a cobbled on secondary one. One decent alarm system to set means part of a hybrid system does not get forgotten or fail. A PIR floodlight for your drive might help also.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 21 Oct 13 at 19:17
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This is what I fitted last year, the entire thing came in about £170 including all the extras. Wired into a 13 amp FCU from a socket.
www.alertelectrical.com/prodvar/5318/texecom-vr8-burglar-alarm-system-kit?&utm_source=google-base&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=google-base-feed&gclid=CILLjJDHqLoCFfHItAodviIAOA
This is the stuff most burglar alarm companies would fit if you ask for a basic wired system. Very good brand and all made in the UK.
Also put a couple of flood lights up, wired into RCDs of course. Perfectly legal since the Part P regulations changed this year too :).
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If you are doing it as a deterrent and just for own peace of mind a DIY wireless system is probably the easiest route. However if it becomes n insurance requirement you will probably find that it will not meet the minimum requirements and is not capable of being upgraded.
You will probably find that having witnessed the 'attempt' and having reported it the poilce it is encumbent on you to inform your insurer - with a consequent increase in premium and possible additional security requirements(:
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The one I posted is a basic professional system which can be Grade 2 compliant if you use the right sensors in the right places. Depending on your experience though it might be a little tricky to wire up, before installing this I had already replaced a couple of alarm panels so it was nothing too difficult.
I got into alarms as a kid (don't ask!!).
Also make sure your door locks are all BS3621 compliant too. I had to upgrade ours last year as it was in the T&Cs of the content insurance.
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Thankyou all, much food for thought there.
We'll no doubt go wireless unless we decide to get pro's in which i'm inclined to do.
Doors and windows have all been replaced within the last 3/4 years as we could afford to, so well up to insurance standards, however we all know that means little to someone determined enough, haven't gone down the barred window route...yet.
Security light out front which confirmed intruder...wierd thing is that he returned for s econd trun around in our drive, either he was inebriated or an idiot or quite sure of himself.
I'm none too sure it was a case of some low life checking the joint, but for SWM's peace of mind...and mine when i'm not here...this will have to be done.
We won't integrate with the old system, but no harm in keeping it installed as a back up/secondary, we will have a new full system and also get an automatic PIR triggered recording camera or two installed.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 21 Oct 13 at 19:58
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I go along with O.N. I would have the system upgraded.We've had our wired system about five years..
We have sensors in all the downstairs rooms no sensors fitted on doors.Upgraded some door locks they are now flush with the doors.I've got writ of conifers and one tree blocking light in our house.Garden looks tidy now and no hiding behind trees which burglars like.
If wires are cut on our alarm it will still go off.System is checked once a year worthwhile.
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Does anyone actually take notice of an alarm wailing?
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>> Does anyone actually take notice of an alarm wailing?
>>
It depends on the area, your relationship with your neighbours, and whether they know if your house is empty should you be away. I have "keyholder" information registered with the police, and a couple of neighbours have my (adult) kids phone number and the kids have the alarm PIN number and house keys.
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Roger has got a point,you tend to rely on your neighbours if on holidays and a alarm goes off.If they don't like you they will ignore the alarm and not get involved.We have lived in this house over thirty years bought new.We used to have lots of problems regarding inconsiderate parking (Works Vans etc)
I'm not a hard case but it was often me who had to sort out the problem whilst my neighbours where hiding behind the curtains.>;)
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Seems theres a good small alarm business just along the road from us, passed their shop many times, letters of recommendation from council Clerk of Works and some other contactable people of similar positions on their website.
Will get in touch tomorrow and see what they can do for us, then decide.
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>> Seems theres a good small alarm business just along the road from us, passed their
>> shop many times, letters of recommendation from council Clerk of Works and some other contactable
>> people of similar positions on their website.
>>
>> Will get in touch tomorrow and see what they can do for us, then decide.
>>
I'd go with getting a pro to do it. The cheap DIY kits I wouldn't both with, they're cheap for a reason. You can spend plenty, with all sorts of extras. Better to get a basic kit that's of good quality than loads of kit that rubbish.
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>> Does anyone actually take notice of an alarm wailing?
>>
Apart from shooting it, you mean?
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Most of the Electricians that I use can and will do the job for very little money to be fair. The crunch comes when an insurer requires them to be Ballocks & Ballcock registered or some such other non entity. Load of carp, but a great alarm engineer I knew who worked alone gave it all up cos he couldn't stand the compliance crap. Great loss and the system that he installed for me in another property over twenty yeas ago is still going strong. Stamping the small operator out (via the back door) will only serve to ensure carp service and a C.G.A.F. attitude at, of course, un-unfavourable price.
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As part of the reinstatement after our house fire, we got a super duper professionally fitted system installed by alarm company. It has PIRs , remote controls, you name it.
However it needs a maintenance contract to make it worthwhile - if you so much as fart in the wrong direction and the alarm panel doesn't like that, it reverts to engineer mode and you need a contract to get the number required to reset it (its not the same number everytime).
From the outside it still looks like its working, the wee lights under the bell ringer still flash but am afraid I wasn't willing to pay the monthly fee especially when we rarely armed it due to the missus forgetting about it every morning when she came downstairs......
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It is quite staggering some of the things you can program into an alarm panel all to create a fake industry around servicing. On mine you can even program in fault codes, so after say 1 year it will make you type in the engineers code to get rid of an error code, not quite sure that is legal in the UK!.
Thankfully mine requires no servicing other than new batteries every three or four years :). A lot of alarm companies don't make much money on the installation but they make a fortune on all the service calls.
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Noted chaps, thankyou, will be wary of ongoing maintenance contracts.
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Wired ones obviously more reliable but probably a pain to install discreetly if wiring not already in place.
Good point made by Rattle. I accidentally set my own alarm off and it asked for an engineer code to reset. Rang the company that installed it and they refused to give me the code over the phone.
Eventually found a copy of the installation manual on t'interwebs and zapped its little CMOS brain with a paper clip to get it back to the factory settings. Bunch of crooks, some of them...
Reminds me of the time my grandparents' house was broken into, a week after the alarm company had done the annual check and discovered a faulty PIR. Didn't have the time to fix it then so arranged to come back in a fortnight. Unusually the burglars only ransacked the room with the dodgy PIR and didn't touch the rest of the house.
You can't prove anything but I wouldn't trust anyone who knows the security setup of my own home better than I do.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Mon 21 Oct 13 at 23:05
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My mother has a wireless system with sensors all over the place. They are quite bulky as they each need to hold the Li battery which is half the length of an AA.
They seem to fail and need replacing more often than I'd like.
Last edited by: Dulwich Estate on Mon 21 Oct 13 at 23:33
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Here at the "Hovel" we have a Response wireless solar/battery alarm system - self-fitted following a burglary in 2001, and barring one battery change has performed faultlessly ever since. All the Insurance companies we've been with since fitting have had no qualms about it, probably because they know it meets the standards.Well recommended!!
www.responseelectronics.com/
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I used to sell burglar alarms for a living. I've never had one installed, even though I live in an interesting town.
A noisy dog, in combination with passive measures to make my house unattractive to burglars is my recipe. I haven't been burgled. Well, I did get burgled once when I was in a student house in Nottingham, shared with 6 other blokes, but that's a different bucket of pollock. Couldn't have a dog for a start...............
One of my neighbours often leaves their house vacant and has an alarm. It often goes off, I and another neighbour always check it out, there's never anything wrong. We just have to wait until the wailing stops of its own accord. Can't stand the things.
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I don't think burglar alarms are particularly effective if you're away.
Perhaps reassuring when you're in the house alone though.
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>> I don't think burglar alarms are particularly effective if you're away.
>>
>> Perhaps reassuring when you're in the house alone though.
>>
The internal siren on mine is so loud you can't hear yourself think, an intruder should get the message.
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>> I don't think burglar alarms are particularly effective if you're away.
If they're attached to the telephone and ring you up they are.
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>> If they're attached to the telephone and ring you up they are.
>>
You're in Barbados/Benidorm/Phuket/Delaware. Your house calls you to say the alarm's going off. You call the Police in the UK - hang on, which number? 999 won't work. Nor will the 0845/0800/whatever else they have for non-emergencies. Hmm. Alarm's still going off, 5000 miles away. If there is someone in the house, your stuff's gone already.
Now, if you do manage to call the fuzz, and they go out to the house and it's false, well, get three false alarms and they won't attend your address again.
Ring the neighbours who hold the key and get them to go in and switch it off? Well it's not much use after it's been switched now either is it? Have that happen a few times when you're away and you've got pretty cheesed off neighbours.
So whatcha gonna do when you get that call? Get on a plane? Too late.
You can see why I gave on on my career selling burglar alarms.
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>>
>> >> If they're attached to the telephone and ring you up they are.
>> >>
>>
>> You're in Barbados/Benidorm/Phuket/Delaware. Your house calls you to say the alarm's going off. You call
>> the Police in the UK - hang on, which number?
You can get them that ring the police and other numbers such as a neighbour. It's all automatic. You can get cameras linked to your phone that only turn when they alarm goes off. so you can see if it's a false alarm.
>> Have that happen a few times when you're away and you've got pretty cheesed off
>> neighbours.
You can get decent ones that don't go off every 5 mins.
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>>You can get decent ones that don't go off every 5 mins.
As preferred and recommended by many burglars...
I don't know about in the UK, but here if they want to burgle your house they'll just keep setting your alarm off until you switch it off out of irritation.
Or making your dog bark every day until the neigbours get used to it and you consider shooting it..
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>>
>>
>> You can get them that ring the police and other numbers such as a neighbour.
>> It's all automatic. You can get cameras linked to your phone that only turn when
>> they alarm goes off. so you can see if it's a false alarm.
But with the fuzz it's three false alarms and they won't bother. They'll block you. Pointless.
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >> You can get them that ring the police and other numbers such as a
>> neighbour.
>> >> It's all automatic. You can get cameras linked to your phone that only turn
>> when
>> >> they alarm goes off. so you can see if it's a false alarm.
>>
>> But with the fuzz it's three false alarms and they won't bother. They'll block you.
>> Pointless.
Like I said get one that doesn't give false alarms. If it's set up properly it shouldn't, you can buy decent ones.
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>> Like I said get one that doesn't give false alarms. If it's set up properly
>> it shouldn't, you can buy decent ones.
>>
I'm sorry, but I don't think there's a single manufacturer out there who will give a guarantee of zero false alarms.
www.zerofalsealarms.org.uk/index.html
"Unfortunately, 99% of all activations generated by automatic intruder alarms were not crime related and therefore did not deserve a Police attendance."
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>>
>> >> Like I said get one that doesn't give false alarms. If it's set up
>> properly
>> >> it shouldn't, you can buy decent ones.
>> >>
>>
>> I'm sorry, but I don't think there's a single manufacturer out there who will give
>> a guarantee of zero false alarms.
>>
I never claimed there was, just that there are good and bad ones. The good ones are better than the bad ones.
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>> I never claimed there was
EH? You said: "get one that doesn't give false alarms". You can't, there's no such thing.
What did you mean by that if not that there are alarms available on the market which never give false alerts?
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>>
>> >> I never claimed there was
>>
>> EH? You said: "get one that doesn't give false alarms". You can't, there's no such
>> thing.
>>
>> What did you mean by that if not that there are alarms available on the
>> market which never give false alerts?
>>
Not as many I meant to type.
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We had a power cut a while back due to a leaking drain. About 50 houses were affected all about 12 years old and most with the builder fitted alarm system. The ones that had not had their backup batteries replaced were a bit noisy, (most of them).
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>> I used to sell burglar alarms for a living. I've never had one installed, even though I live in an interesting town.
>> A noisy dog, in combination with passive measures to make my house unattractive to burglars is my recipe.
Picture of Alanovićs House.... ;-)
preview.tinyurl.com/nsq97hm
Last edited by: swiss tony on Tue 22 Oct 13 at 20:27
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>> Picture of Alanovićs House.... ;-)
>>
>> preview.tinyurl.com/nsq97hm
>>
I've had worse motors. :-)
Crappest (without being shabby or letting the side down) house (and cars - without being shabby or letting the side down) in the best street - that's mine.
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It is often said that a burglar will break into a house if they really want to, regardless of the security that you have.
It is just about making your house less appealing than the next.
We have a fairly basic wireless alarm, but there are at least half a dozen houses on our street that have no alarm at all.
Everything else being equal, why break into a house with an alarm when there is one two doors down without one?
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Tue 22 Oct 13 at 12:01
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Son's neighbour had wired system fitted by builder 11 yrs ago for about £1,000!!! - house sold & new neighbour ignored the alarm's existence until it started to malfunction.....he did not know 4 x digit passcode etc - 2 am and "the street was not pleased". Neighbour then stripped out alarm console and left the box on the wall.
3 years ago it was my son's house that was broken into....the lack of a bell housing on the wall meant my son's house was ransacked - £1,000 electronic kit + £500 damage.
Son installed Yale wireless alarm - 2/3 sensors on doors + 2 scanners @ £160 - seems to work OK- occasional battery to replace but nothing else untoward.
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To me the only real benefits of a burglar alarm are:-
1) Hope the alarm will distract them, this happened to us about ten years ago they prised open a window, the alarm went off, they ran off.
2) If they break in at night, it will wake us so we can batter them on the head Tony Martin style.
3) The hope will choose a house without an alarm instead.
However a burglar alarm certainly does not stop you from being burgled it can just help.
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Bloke across the road from me works for Bentley. Usually their latest model on his drive or some other piece of automotive exotica they're testing to see what's good about it.
Best burglar alarm in the world in my opinion. They're always gonna burgle him before they bother with me now aren't they !
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It's a good point, RdH. I find it unlikely that someone will break in for the keys to a Laguna estate and an 11 year old diesel auto Golf, rather than the shiny new Merc metal on some of my neighbours' drives. In fact, I can prove it, as, during the World Cup in 2010, one such neighbour was watching a match and had left his back door open. Someone's come in the house, found the keys in the kitchen, and driven off in his 2 month old Merc C-Class Coupe. Chappie didn't realise it was happening until he heard it start up and saw it disappearing off his driveway.
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A burglar alarm only serves two functions.
1/ To instill some sense of safety in the householder.
2/ Add a small element of deterrent* Average Burgler Joe Scrout Jnr is gonna pass my gaff by and go for the far easier looking gaff next door.
*Gotta look the part tho. And to look the part you can only do it with the real thing.
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I have a dummy CCTV camera, on my front wall, scanning the front door (only entrance). It has a real lens and a flashing LED powered by 2 x AA batteries.
Maplin sell this which looks like a good starter kit www.maplin.co.uk/ls5000-wireless-multi-zone-security-system-46030
Last edited by: Meldrew on Tue 22 Oct 13 at 16:48
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>> a flashing LED
An absolute cast iron give away that it's a dummy.
Burglars know what's real and what isn't, especially in the internet age when all product catalogues are available on line.
In support of my views and experience in this field, I worked for three years in CCTV and burglar alarm systems. I designed, sold and installed systems in banks, prisons, even royal residences in the Middle East.
I left the industry some time ago and I have no alarm or CCTV at my home. I sleep well.
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The batteries have gone flat and I can't be *rsed to go up a ladder and change then so that is another problem solved!
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Let's not forget also that a burglar alarm indicates to your average scrotum that there's stuff inside worth nicking. It can actually be counterproductive and attract them to your home.
The greater the visible security, the more you've evidently got to protect, the greater the attraction to the determined thief.
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>> Let's not forget also that a burglar alarm indicates to your average scrotum that there's
>> stuff inside worth nicking. It can actually be counterproductive and attract them to your home.
Not the case, really. Your average scrotum is after minimum hassle. More houses with no burglar alarm get broken into than those without.
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Spread the rumour discreetly - whether true or untrue - that you are tooled up and that your sanity is a little suspect. They don't like it up them.
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Never had a burglar alarm till about 2 years ago when I picked up one of the Yale ones cheap, because it was cheap, not because of any paranoia. This is a fairly crime free estate.
I got the outside box up as a deterrent, very visible, even at night as there is a streetlamp. Never got round to fitting the sensors so it is solely there to deter.
About a year later, as I'm sure you will all recall, I was burgled while I slept.
The alarm box clearly had no deterrent effect. Had it been wired in there are three possible outcomes:
1) I'd have slept though it
2) burglars would have scarpered pronto
3) I'd have woken up and accosted burglars. They were a mean looking pair, glad that didn't arise.
My lesson learnt was to improve my security, and my awareness of security. Fitted a better lock to the front door, and now always double lock it from the inside (fitted a thumb thing to to make for easier exit in emergency). I'm in the process of having other final exit doors changed/new locks, and am taking more care to close and lock windows when going out. One hit in 25 years - I'm not making it Fort Knox... I just made it wahy too easy for them last time.
(What I didn't realise is that with a uPVC front door with a handle, slam shutting it, it appeared locked from outside. But if the handle pushes down, it means the full lock hasn't been engaged, and the door can be popped open with ease. Burglar just needs to try the handle to find the easiest targets).
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>>the more you've evidently got to protect,
The bar is set pretty low; Many years ago my then girlfriend, a copper, told me that a scrote will risk his freedom by smashing his way into your car and if he then finds £1 and 4 cigarettes, he will regard that as a success.
You have to have quite a lot to attract a professional, and idiots will come through the window for a packet of fags.
You'll never stop a pro if he wants to come in, but you can do enough to make next door look easier for an idiot.
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I've got bad news for you smokie - UPVC doors are near enough useless to prevent entry. They usually lock when 5 or so little lugs slide into U shaped slots in the frame.
The problem is the lugs are small and the door / frame / hinges assembly is flexible.
I know to my cost that all it takes is a flat bladed spade, a bit of leverage and it's open.
We've now got a thick solid oak door, heavy oak frame (well bolted to the masonry), huge hinges, a pair of hinge bolts, two BS3621 mortice locks and a fancy nightlatch.
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After a couple of outbuillding thefts, my mate installed a PIR activated CCTV system. It still records 24/7 but if the PIR has been activated on any of the 6 cameras he has protecting the ouside and inside of his house it creates points of interest on the recorder so he hasn't got to trawl through hours of CCTV footage to find anything. He can also train each camera PIR to ignore certain areas if say a cat or other animal frequently triggers it. It is also sends photos of anything detected to his iPhone via an App. Even if a potential thief disables/vandalises the CCTV should he spot it, or wipes the recording my mate still has his/their ugly mug(s) as evidence.
Shame he can't train the system to stop sending photos of the postman to him though ;)
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 22 Oct 13 at 21:13
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Well, one of the two companies we have chosen to advise and possibly quote depending on what we think are calling tomorrow, SWM had a brief discussion on the phone and they seem to think that upgrading and extending using existing wired system is the way to go, luckily i'm off now for another few days so hopefully get this sorted.
PIR activated outside recording is something additional i want to discuss with them.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 22 Oct 13 at 21:55
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Well, not going with the first company (be interesting to get their quote though) but an old friend came in with a small company recommendation and we like what we see.
New wireless system with 17 sensors, combinations of various sorts, plus 5 camera recording self contained CCTV linked to wireless broadband so viewable on any household PC.
Be somewhat poorer, but thats the price of reasonable security these days, its something we should have done a while back, needed a kick up the backside like last Sun Morns episode was to do it.
Theres far more to this that i thought, a DiY kit and me would have been a disaster, such as special sensors in conservatories and other zones of extreme temps requiring combined heat/movement sensors to cut out false triggers.
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Hope no-one nicks it!
;>)
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Good luck with it, gb. Hope you trust all that modern electronic gubbins to be reliable in your home rather more than you would if it were in a car.
;-)
It's a bit like when I bought that Renault - everyone expected it to go wrong but wished me well.
I expect your unwelcome visitor was just someone getting lost, and pulling a u-turn in a panic. Foreign plates, not familiar with the area, ballsed it up a bit. That would have been my reaction rather than "foreign plates, must be up to no good, better fork out a fortune on security devices".
I had a bloke loitering around my front door at 3am about a year ago. I called the bizzies and didn't open the door - they came and carted him away, explained to me he was drunk (and probably more) and lost after a party and was seeking directions. The tit. Highly unlikely to ever happen again, no need for any investment in any devices.
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You may well be right AV, so lost was he that he made the same mistake twice, very few drivers are capable of making the hill start on our driveway, he must have been really out of it to have a second go, both times hitting the bench out the front.
I thought the same as you at first, lost/drunk/drugged/playing silly blighters, family copper reckons differently, she knows the layout of the gaff which is quite hidden and the road and her experience and warning is good enough for us, thinking more about it after the event i agree with her immediate thoughts.
Security upgrade is something i'd been meaning to do for some time, our incompetent or maybe not, but still unwelcome visitor only brought it to immediate status.
One good thing, the job is going to a local small business via recommendation.
By the way not everyone expected the Renault to go wrong, don't think i suggested that either, my Renault 21 was totally reliable and for a Reno remarkably easy to work on, but haven't had one since.
My problem with modern cars is that i don't really like them with rare exceptions nearly always RWD or 4WD, modern cars are wheeled washing machines to me devoid of any character or pleasure to look at or use.
I expect proper Japanese cars to be well engineered, particularly where the electrics are concerned, plus the customer service, especially if you choose Toyota or Lexus and avoid Mazda at all costs, is generally streets ahead of all the others, so if i was to buy a modern car it would either be a Toyota/Lexus or another MB purely because my regular indy workshops knows how to keep them going cheaply.
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Burglar alarms - Fursty Ferret
