During a conversation yesterday, it transpired one of my colleagues, who is about ten years older than me, had never heard of Venn diagrams, and didn't recognise the term or the image even after I drew one. If he wasn't very numerate then fair enough perhaps, but in fact he did maths at Cambridge, and is always the one we turn to first for data analysis in various forms.
This seemed very strange to me - a younger colleague knew all about them.
So, as a little survey - are Venn diagrams as familiar to you as the back of your hand, as they are to me, or are you reading this and thinking "what in the name of criminey is he on about now"?
I can only assume my generation was the first to be taught about them in school, or my older colleague is suffering early memory loss.
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Not back of hand familiar and not something I'd use myself.
I know what they are and have occasionally seen them in presentations to demonstrate, for example, overlapping groups of service users.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 18 Oct 13 at 13:43
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Yeah I remember them from school in the 70s. Also seen them used in business presentations etc when discussing market positioning of a product for example. Might have even used that method of presentation myself come to think.
Here's one used to help choose "cat" or "dog" for example...
foxhugh.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/venn-1.jpg
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They were taught in Scottish schools in 1967 equivalent of modern year 8, have used them a few times in presentations etc.
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>> were taught in Scottish schools...
Aye well, that'll be why I know of them then. Suppose they do look a bit like pies right enough.
;-)
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I know them well, sometimes use them either to help my own understanding and/or in a presentation, often for market analysis.
I've always rather liked them.
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Nice cat'n'dog one, although "doesn't dig up yard" is wrong for cats.
I quite like
crispian-jago.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/the-venn-diagram-of-irrational-nonsense.html
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>> had never heard of Venn diagrams...he did maths at Cambridge
The most obvious explanation is that he is lying about having done maths at Cambridge.
I would be tempted to look up some advanced maths concepts and see if he knows them.
Then you'll know whether he got a first in maths at Cambridge Uni, or an F in GCSE maths at Cambridge Comprehensive.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Fri 18 Oct 13 at 14:01
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I...uh..work at Cambridge. He went here. I know.
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>> I...uh..work at Cambridge. He went here. I know.
Yes, of course. But I am head of mathematics at MIT, and I am telling you that anybody who had really studied maths to degree level would know what a Venn diagram is.
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Interesting...I've not actually seen his degree paper...although I could look it up I suppose, if I didn't want to actually keep my job :)
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>> Interesting...I've not actually seen his degree paper...although I could look it up I suppose, if
>> I didn't want to actually keep my job :)
If you do get fired, I can always find you a position here at the Middlesbrough Institute of Teacakes. ;)
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And I was just about to ask you about complex Hamiltonians. Oh well.
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And I was briefly gobsmacked.
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>> And I was just about to ask you about complex Hamiltonians.
I just call them Hamiltonians ;)
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Well, that's simple then.
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Yes, like most on here, seen in the wild in pointless powerpoint presentations.
www.slideshare.net/amann/power-pointless-480823
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I wouldn't be concerned for him Crankcase. There was a young guy ( Scottish doctor what's more ) on Eggheads last night who didn't know "Para Handy" was the captain of the Vital Spark for goodness sake.
Sheesh !
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That Vital Spark puffer pops up everwhere we visit on hols. It was in Crinan basin many years ago looking very tatty, then at Ardrishaig basin and latterly in Inverrary harbour.
Anyway Venn diagrams.... I was taught their use in 1970s secondary school... just shouted up to 16yr old daughter and she's familiar with them.
Goodness knows how your friend missed them Crankcase.
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>> Yes, like most on here, seen in the wild in pointless powerpoint presentations.
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>> www.slideshare.net/amann/power-pointless-480823
>>
Thanks for reminding me what I am missing in retirement.
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No not really familar, I'm pretty sure I know what one is. Never saw them at school.
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Just reminded me really, the other night my son ( 13 ) asked me to check his maths homework. At first I was a bit startled by it because when he shoved it in front of me it was reasonably complex algebra. Fortunately, after having thought about it for a while it sort of came back to me and I was able to confirm his calculations but the thought occured to me that in the nigh on 40 years since I last had to work out the value of an equation or express it in a different way I have never once felt the need or requirement to do that for any practical purpose in real life !
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I think you probably have, but without thinking about it.
- This shop will sell me 1kg of Oranges for £1.00 where as this shop will sell me 7 oranges for 80p.
What algebra is really teaching you is logical problem solving - a major gap in the world these days.
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Ah well, that's where you're wrong y'see, no one else in our house likes oranges so I'd only be looking to buy one orange for personal use thus removing the need for complex fruit based equations. Instead, I would most likely visit a fruit stall and negotiate a price for a single item. This would require only a basic understanding of arithmetic and some at least semi-informed view as to the current market value of oranges.
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>> logical problem solving - a major gap in the world these days.
Yes. But we could do that before Venn diagrams were promoted.
I don't like them much. Typical wishy-washy modern mid-Atlantic carp if you ask me... If you understand them you don't need them, and if you don't understand them they will confuse you.
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>>> logical problem solving - a major gap in the world these days.
>
>Yes. But we could do that before Venn diagrams were promoted
"What ALGEBRA is really teaching you is logical problem solving"
And whilst I realise that 1880 is modern times for you, Hull is hardly mid-atlantic.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 18 Oct 13 at 15:19
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>> whilst I realise that 1880 is modern times for you, Hull is hardly mid-atlantic.
See? They've confused me.
Er... QED... drool
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For those who wonder what this thread is all about , let this enlighten you :)
www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/JubGuo5-1024x823.jpeg
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Just ask if he can understand this:
{x ∈ ℝ : x2 = 1} ∩ ℕ = {1}
Being a mathematician doesn't mean you have to keep pictures of two hula
-hoops in your mind.
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I'm no mathematician, but I'm always keen to learn stuff. Is the answer to that just 1?
I read that as the set whose elements satisfy firstly they have to be a real number which when squared is 1 and also elements that are part of the set of natural numbers and is just 1.
Which is well, just 1 really. Is that right or utter utter nonsense?
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You couldn't make it up really... Yesterday afternoon Mrs F walks in from a heavy day at work with her handbag and some briefing she needed to read up over the weekend. Top of the front page was a venn diagram... so that's 3 out of 3 in this house that is aware of them.
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They are just logic diagrams with numbers.
I remember doing them at school in the 3rd form in 1963. The maths master introduced them by saying "Venn Diagrams were invented by a famous mathematician called Diagram".
Everybody woke up and looked puzzled, as it slowly sank in that that was a joke.
Later we moved on to Sets and Matrices, which he pronounced in a way calculated to appeal to adolescent schoolboys.
He always recommended maths as an easy option at university, because there was very little to learn and nothing to revise. Like chess, you just took each problem as it arose and solved it using your intelligence and a bit knowledge.
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No never saw them during my schooldays either, left in 1970/1.
We were heavily into Logarithms.
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Did them at school, probably about 2004. Never saw much point in them.
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First year logic iirc.. err nearly 50 years ago..
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> Never saw much point in them.
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They appeal to people with a particular kind of logical mind who like to visualise things.
8 out of 10 cats like kittycat. 5 out of 10 cats like whiskers. 4 of those are the same cats.
Out of the total sample of 27 cats, 8 don't like either of those. How many cats ....?
That kind of thing.
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Venn diagrams - Bromptonaut
