Non-motoring > Venn diagrams	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Crankcase	Replies: 35

Fri 18 Oct 13 13:34   Venn diagrams - Crankcase

During a conversation yesterday, it transpired one of my colleagues, who is about ten years older than me, had never heard of Venn diagrams, and didn't recognise the term or the image even after I drew one. If he wasn't very numerate then fair enough perhaps, but in fact he did maths at Cambridge, and is always the one we turn to first for data analysis in various forms. This seemed very strange to me - a younger colleague knew all about them. So, as a little survey - are Venn diagrams as familiar to you as the back of your hand, as they are to me, or are you reading this and thinking "what in the name of criminey is he on about now"? I can only assume my generation was the first to be taught about them in school, or my older colleague is suffering early memory loss. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 13:42   Venn diagrams - Bromptonaut

Not back of hand familiar and not something I'd use myself. I know what they are and have occasionally seen them in presentations to demonstrate, for example, overlapping groups of service users. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 18 Oct 13 at 13:43 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 13:50   Venn diagrams - Runfer D'Hills

Yeah I remember them from school in the 70s. Also seen them used in business presentations etc when discussing market positioning of a product for example. Might have even used that method of presentation myself come to think. Here's one used to help choose "cat" or "dog" for example... foxhugh.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/venn-1.jpg Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 13:54   Venn diagrams - commerdriver

They were taught in Scottish schools in 1967 equivalent of modern year 8, have used them a few times in presentations etc. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 13:57   Venn diagrams - Runfer D'Hills

>> were taught in Scottish schools... Aye well, that'll be why I know of them then. Suppose they do look a bit like pies right enough. ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:44   Venn diagrams - No FM2R

I know them well, sometimes use them either to help my own understanding and/or in a presentation, often for market analysis. I've always rather liked them. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 13:59   Venn diagrams - Crankcase

Nice cat'n'dog one, although "doesn't dig up yard" is wrong for cats. I quite like crispian-jago.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/the-venn-diagram-of-irrational-nonsense.html Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:00   Venn diagrams - SteelSpark

>> had never heard of Venn diagrams...he did maths at Cambridge The most obvious explanation is that he is lying about having done maths at Cambridge. I would be tempted to look up some advanced maths concepts and see if he knows them. Then you'll know whether he got a first in maths at Cambridge Uni, or an F in GCSE maths at Cambridge Comprehensive. Last edited by: SteelSpark on Fri 18 Oct 13 at 14:01 Reply to this message | Report message       1

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:01   Venn diagrams - Crankcase

I...uh..work at Cambridge. He went here. I know. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:47   Venn diagrams - SteelSpark

>> I...uh..work at Cambridge. He went here. I know. Yes, of course. But I am head of mathematics at MIT, and I am telling you that anybody who had really studied maths to degree level would know what a Venn diagram is. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:49   Venn diagrams - Crankcase

Interesting...I've not actually seen his degree paper...although I could look it up I suppose, if I didn't want to actually keep my job :) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:55   Venn diagrams - SteelSpark

>> Interesting...I've not actually seen his degree paper...although I could look it up I suppose, if >> I didn't want to actually keep my job :) If you do get fired, I can always find you a position here at the Middlesbrough Institute of Teacakes. ;) Reply to this message | Report message       2

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:59   Venn diagrams - Crankcase

And I was just about to ask you about complex Hamiltonians. Oh well. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 15:00   Venn diagrams - No FM2R

And I was briefly gobsmacked. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 15:04   Venn diagrams - SteelSpark

>> And I was just about to ask you about complex Hamiltonians. I just call them Hamiltonians ;) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 15:10   Venn diagrams - Crankcase

Well, that's simple then. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:04   Venn diagrams - Zero

Yes, like most on here, seen in the wild in pointless powerpoint presentations. www.slideshare.net/amann/power-pointless-480823 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:12   Venn diagrams - Runfer D'Hills

I wouldn't be concerned for him Crankcase. There was a young guy ( Scottish doctor what's more ) on Eggheads last night who didn't know "Para Handy" was the captain of the Vital Spark for goodness sake. Sheesh ! Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:47   Venn diagrams - Fenlander

That Vital Spark puffer pops up everwhere we visit on hols. It was in Crinan basin many years ago looking very tatty, then at Ardrishaig basin and latterly in Inverrary harbour. Anyway Venn diagrams.... I was taught their use in 1970s secondary school... just shouted up to 16yr old daughter and she's familiar with them. Goodness knows how your friend missed them Crankcase. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:36   Venn diagrams - henry k

>> Yes, like most on here, seen in the wild in pointless powerpoint presentations. >> >> www.slideshare.net/amann/power-pointless-480823 >> Thanks for reminding me what I am missing in retirement. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:39   Venn diagrams - sooty123

No not really familar, I'm pretty sure I know what one is. Never saw them at school. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:46   Venn diagrams - Runfer D'Hills

Just reminded me really, the other night my son ( 13 ) asked me to check his maths homework. At first I was a bit startled by it because when he shoved it in front of me it was reasonably complex algebra. Fortunately, after having thought about it for a while it sort of came back to me and I was able to confirm his calculations but the thought occured to me that in the nigh on 40 years since I last had to work out the value of an equation or express it in a different way I have never once felt the need or requirement to do that for any practical purpose in real life ! Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 14:50   Venn diagrams - No FM2R

I think you probably have, but without thinking about it. - This shop will sell me 1kg of Oranges for £1.00 where as this shop will sell me 7 oranges for 80p. What algebra is really teaching you is logical problem solving - a major gap in the world these days. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 15:02   Venn diagrams - Runfer D'Hills

Ah well, that's where you're wrong y'see, no one else in our house likes oranges so I'd only be looking to buy one orange for personal use thus removing the need for complex fruit based equations. Instead, I would most likely visit a fruit stall and negotiate a price for a single item. This would require only a basic understanding of arithmetic and some at least semi-informed view as to the current market value of oranges. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 15:05   Venn diagrams - Armel Coussine

>> logical problem solving - a major gap in the world these days. Yes. But we could do that before Venn diagrams were promoted. I don't like them much. Typical wishy-washy modern mid-Atlantic carp if you ask me... If you understand them you don't need them, and if you don't understand them they will confuse you. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 15:18   Venn diagrams - No FM2R

>>> logical problem solving - a major gap in the world these days. > >Yes. But we could do that before Venn diagrams were promoted "What ALGEBRA is really teaching you is logical problem solving" And whilst I realise that 1880 is modern times for you, Hull is hardly mid-atlantic. Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 18 Oct 13 at 15:19 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 15:33   Venn diagrams - Armel Coussine

>> whilst I realise that 1880 is modern times for you, Hull is hardly mid-atlantic. See? They've confused me. Er... QED... drool Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 19 Oct 13 16:43   Venn diagrams - sherlock47

For those who wonder what this thread is all about , let this enlighten you :) www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/JubGuo5-1024x823.jpeg Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 18:31   Venn diagrams - Biggles

Just ask if he can understand this: {x ∈ ℝ : x2 = 1} ∩ ℕ = {1} Being a mathematician doesn't mean you have to keep pictures of two hula -hoops in your mind. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 18 Oct 13 19:15   Venn diagrams - Crankcase

I'm no mathematician, but I'm always keen to learn stuff. Is the answer to that just 1? I read that as the set whose elements satisfy firstly they have to be a real number which when squared is 1 and also elements that are part of the set of natural numbers and is just 1. Which is well, just 1 really. Is that right or utter utter nonsense? Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 19 Oct 13 17:04   Venn diagrams - Fenlander

You couldn't make it up really... Yesterday afternoon Mrs F walks in from a heavy day at work with her handbag and some briefing she needed to read up over the weekend. Top of the front page was a venn diagram... so that's 3 out of 3 in this house that is aware of them. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Oct 13 08:48   Venn diagrams - Cliff Pope

They are just logic diagrams with numbers. I remember doing them at school in the 3rd form in 1963. The maths master introduced them by saying "Venn Diagrams were invented by a famous mathematician called Diagram". Everybody woke up and looked puzzled, as it slowly sank in that that was a joke. Later we moved on to Sets and Matrices, which he pronounced in a way calculated to appeal to adolescent schoolboys. He always recommended maths as an easy option at university, because there was very little to learn and nothing to revise. Like chess, you just took each problem as it arose and solved it using your intelligence and a bit knowledge. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Oct 13 11:42   Venn diagrams - -

No never saw them during my schooldays either, left in 1970/1. We were heavily into Logarithms. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Oct 13 20:29   Venn diagrams - MJW1994

Did them at school, probably about 2004. Never saw much point in them. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Oct 13 21:33   Venn diagrams - madf

First year logic iirc.. err nearly 50 years ago.. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Oct 13 08:11   Venn diagrams - Cliff Pope

> Never saw much point in them. >> They appeal to people with a particular kind of logical mind who like to visualise things. 8 out of 10 cats like kittycat. 5 out of 10 cats like whiskers. 4 of those are the same cats. Out of the total sample of 27 cats, 8 don't like either of those. How many cats ....? That kind of thing. Reply to this message | Report message