I was listening to the news this evening and they had on a representative from the power produces explaining about the possibility of electricity blackouts over the coming Winter, while he said that total blackouts were most unlikely he did say that to achieve this they (the power stations) would probably have to 'turn down' the quality of the electricity coming into our homes and there was a good chance that a number of electrical items would stop working correctly because of this.
Any idea what actually this means and what might be affected?
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I think its largely PR sensationalism, but voltage can both be varied and varying. Although I cannot imagine what equipment they believe may fail, or not work correctly, given the variances we're probably talking of.
This pretty much covers it and probably in more detail than you care about.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_quality
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If we all go and stand in front of Cast Irons Daves mates windfarms and blow together, can we avoid this happening.
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In cynic mode I'm making a link between generating industry 'warnings' of power shortages and Miliband's proposed controls on retail fuel pries.
As a nation though we need to get s grip on base load supply whether nuclear, clean coal or some other technology. Our utilities have the characteristics of the fifties/sixties motor industry but without the unions. Complacent owners who are quite happy so long as the next couple of years divis look secure and a government that sees no need to interfere.
Given the impossibility of storage and difficulty importing Electricity, far more so than Gas, cries out for a return to central direction in the style of the old CEGB.
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>>Our utilities have the characteristics of the fifties/sixties motor industry but without the unions
They're regulated. Managing a regulator is a billion times easier than managing a customer.
The regulator thinks that the regulated company is limited to 6.5% profit. Everybody thinks that the profit is regulated.
Trouble is, regulation drives two behaviours....
The regulated company can increase its revenue AND its profit, by INCREASING costs - Efficiency and driving down costs will DECREASE their profit.
Its profit is not limited to 6%, its GUARANTEED at 6%, provided the regulator, and their approval of costs, is managed. Hence a major investment is in regulator management.
OK, that's overly simplistic, but that is essentially what's occurring. And trying to balance those effects with inept, inappropriate and cumbersome targets doesn't work.
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Retail Electric Power Supply Company - its price for electricity regulated and can only increase that with permission of a regulator.
However, say Power Supply Company also owns a Gas Field in the North Sea - it can choose to charge itself whatever it really wants (within reason) and supply gas to consumers- HIGHER wholesale price and take a profit that is unregulated as a OIL & GAS company for example.
Power Supply Company also owns an Electricity Generating Company - it can choose what price to sell its own gas to its own Power Station and that way engineer a profit at another unregulated point. It can sell to its retail arm at an internal price say fractions of pennies higher which has the effect of making ££Millions for its Power Generation business.
North Sea oil & gas can come out of the same pipe. However when oil goes up/down there is no automatic reason why the gas should follow as oil & gas are distinct products. However, this winter when oil goes up I am sure the gas price will rise.
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>> Given the impossibility of storage and difficulty importing Electricity, far more so than Gas, cries
>> out for a return to central direction in the style of the old CEGB.
The same one that was in charge in those dark cold powerless days of 1973?
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It's an intriguing concept, the belief that electricity can possess "quality". We always go to Eon, it seems to last longer.
Isn't there a law laying down maximum permitted voltage variations? Would that law have to be repealed in order to permit the turning down of some gigantic dimmer switch?
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>> Any idea what actually this means and what might be affected?
It means not much really. Little or nothing in the domestic situation will be seriously affected by a carefully planned and implemented "brown out" (a planned sustained reduction in voltage) Unplanned sags or momentary drops are far more of a problem.
Most people have no idea how well the national grid can forecast, by the minute and day of the year, what the total consumption of the uk will be. Its often be operated "on the limit" in this way. This "crisis" is not new, its been known for some years now we would hit this point, due to taking off stream some of the big coal fired plants. Whats also not known by many is that we have been importing power from france since 1961 through the "interconnect"
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 8 Oct 13 at 08:44
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Couple of years ago we had all the lights going orange, the cooker taking forever, the hoover running at a low moan instead of an enthusiastic whinny, and so on. In my innocence I thought it must be the voltage had dropped, so rang the supplier. EON it was I think at the time.
The call was met with indifference and sighing, an eventual callout, a test that apparently showed nothing wrong whatsoever, and about a week later it all went back to normal. Never had any feedback from them other than "there's nothing wrong with it and never was, go away".
So whatever gremlin that was remains undiscovered by me. If we get brownouts this winter, is this the kind of thing we can expect?
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>> Couple of years ago we had all the lights going orange, the cooker taking forever,
>> the hoover running at a low moan instead of an enthusiastic whinny, and so on.
>> In my innocence I thought it must be the voltage had dropped, so rang the
>> supplier. EON it was I think at the time.
>>
>> The call was met with indifference and sighing, an eventual callout, a test that apparently
>> showed nothing wrong whatsoever, and about a week later it all went back to normal.
>> Never had any feedback from them other than "there's nothing wrong with it and never
>> was, go away".
>>
>> So whatever gremlin that was remains undiscovered by me. If we get brownouts this winter,
>> is this the kind of thing we can expect?
>>
Not as dramatic as that, but yes. If it happens its going to be when it s very cold, at 20:00 on a Monday night.
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The spokesperson seemed to indicate that the only way to prevent this happening was to build new power stations, he also indicated that there are 10's of mothballed stations around the country that are on standby for when we have a very high demand (?) but they cost almost as much on tick-over as if they were fully operational.
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Thank heaven for the open fire in one room and the woodburner in one of the others then. And we can read by candle light. And the electricity bill will be lower.
What's not to like?
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>> What's not to like?
>>
I've no gas or solid fuel cooking device...................all electric.
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It's a chance to get fit. Pedal power...
www.los-gatos.ca.us/davidbu/pedgen/one_hour_pppm.html
I particularly like the idea of pedalling for one hour to allow you to run your tv - in standby mode - for five hours.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 8 Oct 13 at 11:14
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This site gives an idea of what is happening on the national grid.
www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
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>> www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Interesting. Hadn't realised we were getting so much from wind.
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It's about 5% of total demand at the moment. That's the highest I've seen it for a while. It's usually at about 0,2 to 0,5 gig.
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>>Thank heaven for the open fire in one room and the woodburner in one of the others then. And we can read by candle light. And the electricity bill will be lower
Ole woman was saying the same thing last night = a ton of Welsh anthrocite, gas hobbit, and at least fork handles.
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No need to worry. I'm sure the coalition will have this up and running by Christmas.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24429621
;-)
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24429621
"But to be viable, fusion power plants would have to produce more energy than they consume"
Glad they cleared that up :)
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"The call was met with indifference"
A call about an unexpected brownout should NOT be met with indifference. We had one some years ago in the village where we then lived when a brownout caused the usual 'orange' lights etc but also, more dramatically, caused the electric motors on the fridges and freezers to warm up. Motors so affected could overheat to the point of burning out. and, in the event of a brownout, the appliance should be switched off.
In our case, the cause of the brownout was a fault at the substation and it was dealt with as an emergency.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)
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Had a brown out a few years ago in the Village of my works place.
Only one phase had gone but the main 230 volt power supply was at 110 volts.
Its surprising what devices carried on working fine and which didn't.
The older computers wouldn't turn on (hardly any pc's have a switch for 110 / 240 volts any more).
The newer computers just needed restarting.
Oddly enough the mobile phone network kept working for 30 mins then dropped out completely.
Probably battery backup at the phone repeater mast.
a Few fridge motors got warm but couldn't pump the refrigerant around.
Our -80c freezer became quite warm.
Lots of Fluorescent lights flickering but never getting enough voltage to start up fully.
Funny how many things we take fro granted suddenly disappear with a power cut.
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I'm changing my summer electricity for winter.
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I'm changing my summer electricity for winter........
Yep Dave, that winter electricity is much warmer..... you need to mix it with anti freeze though... not too much anti freeze or it dribbles out of the sockets.....
My resistance to post further in this thread has been overcome by
my capacitance to reason clearly.......my brain hertz....
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Well, potentially you should go ohm then, watt?
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>> impossibility of storage
A theoretical method is to use surplus power when available to pump water up to high reservoirs. When the energy stored in this way is required, the water can be run back via hydroelectric plants.
It maybe that the bumps of Scotland and Wales are not high enough for this but our problems with infill capacity can be solved at a stroke: just use the waste to build to build them up.
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"A theoretical method is to use surplus power when available to pump water up to high reservoirs. When the energy stored in this way is required, the water can be run back via hydroelectric plants. "
Not just theoretical. Take a trip to Cruachan where there is just such a power station. Well worth a visit if you're ever up that way.
www.visitcruachan.co.uk/
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Best get some batteries in the camping lanterns and dig out the candles.
Bummer the boiler will go off & the oven. :-(
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>> "A theoretical method is to use surplus power when available to pump water up to
>> high reservoirs. When the energy stored in this way is required, the water can be
>> run back via hydroelectric plants. "
>>
>> Not just theoretical. Take a trip to Cruachan where there is just such a power
>> station. Well worth a visit if you're ever up that way.
>>
>> www.visitcruachan.co.uk/
>>
>
There are a couple in Wales as well. Ffestinniog I think was the original-in the sixties. A corrie at Stwlan was dammed to provide the upper reservoir. You used to be able to drive up there for a fee - Alpine style bends.
I think Mrs B's Father was involved in installing/commissioning some of the generation plant and switchgear - AEI or English Electric?
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Dinorwig is the one that comes to my mind.
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>> Dinorwig is the one that comes to my mind.
That's the other one in Wales aka Electric Mountain. Much bigger than Festinniog.
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2.21 GW from wind - sounds a lot to me, hadn't realised we were getting that much from turbines
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>> 2.21 GW from wind - sounds a lot to me, hadn't realised we were getting
>> that much from turbines
Well when you consider the number of wind turbines we have
source wikipedia
"The UK is one of the best locations for wind power in the world, and is considered to be the best in Europe.[1] At the beginning of August 2013, wind power in the United Kingdom consisted of 4,998 wind turbines with a total installed capacity of over 10 gigawatts: 6,368 megawatts of onshore capacity and 3,653 megawatts of offshore capacity.[2] The United Kingdom is ranked as the world's sixth largest producer of wind power, having recently overtaken France and Italy"
so we have a capacity of 10gw but it only supplies just over 2gw
Whereby just one power station, Drax (coal and Biomass) generates 3.9GW
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Looking at the weekly/monthly/daily graphs it appears wind is producing 0.5 to 5.0 GW, with up to another 2.5 GW also being generated but unmetered (so would be recorded as a drop in demand).
Presumably the times of very low output are the result of no/low wind, and also when there is oversupply elsewhere in the grid so they can be turned off quickly.
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We're fortunate in that we have complete back up 50ft away. Lights/fridge/oven/hob/hot water/telly. The full works.
They'll all be knockin on me door to watch Corrie !
Smug of Manchester.
Ted
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From wikipedia I note that the most efficient wind farm in the world is on the Shetlands.
Apparently the farm has averaged 52% of it's peak output over the past 10 years and holds a world record for 2005 where is hit 58%.
Who said deforestation was a bad thing.
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"2.21 GW from wind - sounds a lot to me, hadn't realised we were getting that much from turbines"
2.21 gigawatts from wind is an incredible amount of power. It takes nuclear fusion to generate 1.21 gigawatts and power a flux capacitor which allows the stainless steel body of a vehicle to smoothly travel forwards and backwards through the space time continuum.
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>> I'm changing my summer electricity for winter.
>>
You need to switch to winter plugs too. So-called all the year round plugs are really only suitable for summer. An ordinary FM radio on winter plugs will grip better than a fancy DAB.
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There is also the tidal barrage. I know of only two commercial examples, at the Rance Estuary in Brittany and Lake Sihwa in Korea. There is a small one somewhere in the USA, more for research than anything.
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"An ordinary FM radio on winter plugs will grip better than a fancy DAB."
All modern radios are rubbish. You're better off with a classic model with proper valves that you can fettle yourself.
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Very good CGN - I acknowledge the touch :)
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....a classic model with proper valves that you can fettle yourself......
I have memories of my old man taking the wet batteries from our valve radio in the fifties down to the garage to be charged up..... the radio used to take a few minutes to warm up as the valves began to glow so I could listen to Radio Luxemburg on which ISTR a programme called the teen and twenty disc club with that loveable old Jimmy Savile....
It used to be very difficult to tune and kept fading in and out of station ......hence it used to be referred to by the old man as that 'box of whistles'.
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The tone of my homemade crystal set was very pure.
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Why did hydropower seem to die a death? Remember visiting the Scottish Power plant on the Clyde at New Lanark in the 1990s.
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I think it was the cost and the best areas to use them often had lots of shipping so were considered unsuitable. There was one going on in the severn estuary I think.
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>> I think it was the cost and the best areas to use them often had
>> lots of shipping so were considered unsuitable. There was one going on in the severn
>> estuary I think.
Hydro usually refers to gravity rather than tidal.
I see the wind is up to nearly 4.3GW today!
Talking to my aunt earlier, she is in Lockerbie where there is a tree-fired power station. There are lorries passing her house regularly, laden with logs that are stacked to the sky on the site.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNuLueAbrzA
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>> Talking to my aunt earlier, she is in Lockerbie where there is a tree-fired power
>> station. There are lorries passing her house regularly, laden with logs that are stacked to
>> the sky on the site.
Its called Biomass
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>> Its called Biomass
They speak of little else in Lockerbie now;)
And they are very anti-windfarm, trying to keep them out of the locality.
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>> And they are very anti-wind farm, trying to keep them out of the locality. >>
Wind farms are a complete joke.
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"Why did hydropower seem to die a death"
Never did catch on in Norfolk. Something to do with the lack of mountains around here I believe. ;-)
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The hydroelectric power station at New Lanark Mills is, it seems, still in operation:
www.djhweb.co.uk/clydehydro.php
It's a great day out at New Lanark...:-)
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And if you have lunch in the Hotel you can park in the carpark at the bottom rather than up the top of the hill with the plebs ;-)
Decent pub grub too.
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>> Hydropower has its problems too;
>>
>> eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2011/07/siberia-hydro-disaster.cfm
>>
>> www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/09/the_sayanoshushenskaya_dam_acc.html
>>
I had to answer a question to view the second batch of photos in the second link!
"Are you a naturally born citizen of the United kingdom"? Well, my mum told be that I was born naturally, so I answered yes.
That was the right thing to do wasn't it?
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The energy rises are certainly aggravated by all the green tax/funding stuff....
But ultimately if there is a desire to reduce the consumption of energy then economics (ie it becomes more expensive) is likely to be a bigger driver than education.
The UKs housing stock remains one of the least well insulated in northern Europe.
For the same expenditure on heating you either have to accept being colder, or wrap up better.
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>>For the same expenditure on heating you either have to accept being colder, or wrap up better.
Or get a woodburner / multifuel stove.
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OK if you have access to free or very cheap wood. Otherwise an expensive luxury.
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I bow to your superior knowledge CG but, I've used a multi-fuel stove for 15 years and I suppose the £500 per annum I spend on heating is indeed expensive - when I compare it to my heating costs while living in Tenerife.
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Out of interest how much do you pay for the wood/fuel? Does the £500 include hot water? For most people with access to piped gas it's still the cheapest (and most convenient) option.
A wood burner is certainly cozy but it won't out perform a gas boiler.
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Ah well CG, the stove was here when we moved in but, it's only a cheapie Cottager: tinyurl.com/lat7sqv
The £500 does include water, we don't use an awful lot though through the year.
We spend another say £300 pa on electrickery.
3 bed detached stone-built jobbie with thick walls.
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If you can find a Jotul 507 stove, that is the way to go. I run mine on anthracite beans. For one period of 213 days to March 29th. 2011 it ran non-stop . This included a week away from home, during which it stayed lit. It only needs riddling twice a week, clearing of the fine ash once. The cost is about 41p a day. There was a back boiler version.
I had another on a narrowboat, running it on the unlimited scrap timber that can be picked up along the canals. It is no longer produced and Jotul UK told me it never had been! I tried to contact the original manufacturer, without success.
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Do we have to go back burning coal and woodstoves because big companies have us by the troat regarding fuel prices? I remember having a open fire looks nice in pictures but cleaning the mess.I like my central heating and warm home in winter.
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>> OK if you have access to free or very cheap wood. Otherwise an expensive luxury.
>>
They do seem expensive, I've seen people forking out £3000+ for one. Fair enough if that's what you want, they are the latest thing to have in your house by all accounts. But saving money no I don't think so. I use wood on my fire and is quite handy mainly because all the wood is free. If I had to buy it I don't think I'd bother, it's not a cheap way to heat up the house.
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If electricity from renewables (the green kind of electricity) has a more stable and constant cost of production than that generated from imported gas and stuff, and taking in to consideration the rocketing price of power generated in the traditional way, shouldn't energy suppliers' "green" tarrifs, those which claim to supply electricity exclusively form renewables, be pretty much constant, and by now shouldn't they be priced well below other tarrifs?
It doesn't seem to be happening. If it were, we'd know about it and we'd all be switching our leccy to "green" tarrifs. It's not happening and we're not doing it. Why not?
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I would imagine because it's not a stable or constant production and it's more expensive than traditional supplies, hence it's more expensive.
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After wholesale, delivery and operating costs are paid, 9.4% of every fuel bill goes to pay for green and welfare charges, 6% goes to the Treasury in tax and the company gets 4.1% in "profit" out of which they have to reinvest, pay for R+D and provide a return to shareholders - most of whom are pension fund holders (ie us). Wouldn't Red Ed be doing everyone a favour if he turned his attentions away from crucifying the energy industry and looked again at his bonkers, and ultimately pointless, £100bn decision in government to slash UK carbon emissions by 2020? (Curbing our carbon emissions at this speed is pointless because the large scale polluting nations have no intention of following our "example", thus the effect will be like a single man trying to empty Lake Baikal with a tea-spoon.
Lifted from another forum.
E & OE ;-0
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>> After wholesale, delivery and operating costs are paid, 9.4% of every fuel bill goes to
>> pay for green and welfare charges, 6% goes to the Treasury in tax and the
>> company gets 4.1% in "profit" out of which they have to reinvest, pay for R+D
>> and provide a return to shareholders - most of whom are pension fund holders (ie
>> us). Wouldn't Red Ed be doing everyone a favour if he turned his attentions away
>> from crucifying the energy industry and looked again at his bonkers, and ultimately pointless, £100bn
>> decision in government to slash UK carbon emissions by 2020? (Curbing our carbon emissions at
>> this speed is pointless because the large scale polluting nations have no intention of following
>> our "example", thus the effect will be like a single man trying to empty Lake
>> Baikal with a tea-spoon.
>> Lifted from another forum.
>> E & OE ;-0
Correctomundo in part, the 100 bn IS needed to invest in new power sources in any case, and they might as well be "green" and "renewable" if you can but while you are about it It should be nuclear and it should be tidal and its only fair that customers should pay for it. EITHER THROUGH TAXES OR BILLS.
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What I'm getting at is this: the price of traditional generation is going up. Again. So they say. So my bills will be going up. Again. There must come a price point where the consumer price of trad leccy surpasses that of green leccy. Because green is not subject to the vagaries of importing gas etc. Where is this point? Why has it not been hit already? green power isn't that much dearer than trad, and yet the price always stays in front of trad, however much the power companies inflate the price of trad electricity, and inspite of the fact that our trad energy bills allegedly contain an element of support for investing in new green generation technologies, which should bring the cost of green power down, as it surely must be helping improve the technologies and make them more efficient.
Green prices SHOULD really only be going in one direction. Down. Yet they don't. They stay in front of trad, and the trad consumer is picking up the bill for these improvements in green energy, which don't' seem to be providing any benefit in terms of price to the consumer.
What's going on?
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There must come a price point where the consumer price of trad leccy surpasses that of green leccy.
Because it's still an expensive way of producing electricity, some costs will be across the sector not isolated in one type of production. Plus people will still pay more for green energy.
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>> Plus people will still pay more for
>> green energy.
>>
But more of us would use it if it were cheaper than trad. I'd switch in a heartbeat if it were.
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>> >> Plus people will still pay more for
>> >> green energy.
>> >>
>>
>> But more of us would use it if it were cheaper than trad. I'd switch
>> in a heartbeat if it were.
>>
Clearly not enough to make enough money.
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I buy on price alone for a product which is identical at point of consumption.
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>> Green prices SHOULD really only be going in one direction. Down. Yet they don't. They
>> stay in front of trad, and the trad consumer is picking up the bill for
>> these improvements in green energy, which don't' seem to be providing any benefit in terms
>> of price to the consumer.
>>
>> What's going on?
Green prices are not going down, because they didn't exist and you are paying to have them installed.
What we have here, is 30 + years of chronic underinvestment and no broad spectrum forward thinking energy policy.
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>> Green prices are not going down, because they didn't exist and you are paying to
>> have them installed.
>>
Yes, understood. But trad prices go up and up and up every year. Surely there will be a point where they top green prices, if they keep increasing exponentially as they are doing?
8% this year, trad prices are going up. Are green prices going up 8%?
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>> >> Green prices are not going down, because they didn't exist and you are paying
>> to
>> >> have them installed.
>> >>
>>
>>
>> Yes, understood. But trad prices go up and up and up every year. Surely there
>> will be a point where they top green prices, if they keep increasing exponentially as
>> they are doing?
>>
>> 8% this year, trad prices are going up. Are green prices going up 8%?
Depends on when, if, we meet the correct mix of new v old sources and how far down the road we have paid off the investment.
But hey in this world nothing goes down, it just goes up less.
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The market is rigged anyway, the retailers buy their power from sister companies that are wholesalers. They make double profits from retailing the stuff and wholesaling it. The regulator has no power over the wholesale part of the companies.
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Fitted my stove this year it's a Villager multi fuel jobbie and bought those 1 ton sacks full 3x of them to get me started which is a bout 1 ton in weight for 3.
But the rest of the wood i have found or been given and put the word out that i wanted it, plus lots of ex building wood soft wood and pallets burns hot but quicker than dry seasoned wood, plus have smokeless coals.
The costs to fit from start to finish £1200
No flue liner fitted old house 1909 built not needed but they did try to sell me one for 1k, but several companies said it was ok without but more efficent with one.
I opened the wall back to the builders opening and fitted the hearth & cleaned up the brick work a saving of £500.00
Well worth the expense as the gas fire was 18 yrs old and worn out, the stove came in at £600 after a load of aggling when had cash in my hand, I had the chimney swept but now i will do this myself once a year.
Please don't have one fitted i want the wood for myself.!!!!!
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This is what I burn in my Cottager multi-fuel stove: preview.tinyurl.com/ox2b8da
I wont light the critter until Halloween :) and that lot will last me 'til the sun comes back.
I have considered burning wood, but I'd require an awful lot to take the place of 1 ton of anthracite.
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Yes they do eat a lot of wood but if it's free it does not matter. :-)
Saving the coals for the -c weather out later today to get some more branches always take the chainsaw and fill the car up.
Sat there most days at 25c with shorts and a vest on loving it. :-)
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>>out later today to get some more branches always take the chainsaw and fill the car up.
I have thought of doing that, plus I'm surrounded by woods where we live, I should 'go for it' really :)
>>Sat there most days at 25c with shorts and a vest on loving it. :-)
Saw 28° in here last winter!
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Take the chainsaw and fill the car up Dog? No roadrage with you they be thinking twice.>:)
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I'm passed it now Dutchie, a year of living on vegetables and I look like a brilliantine stick insect.
:o}
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We spent £7billion on the Iraq war.
The war in Afghanistan will have cost us £20billion by the time the 'mission' draws to a close.
The government has spent 100's of £billions shoring up the banks but do very little to help our increasingly vulnerable OAP's.
How utterly disgraceful IMHO.
This is a comment from said article in the Daily Express:
"I am unemployed have a spare bedroom and I have COPD, I get £71.70 a week after I pay my bills I am left with £5.65 for food and anything else. Last winter I could NOT afford to put the heating on and I was very ill on and off for 3 months. I am worried what will happen this winter as it is not only old people who can die because of the cold. I am thinking of having my gas turned of".
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There must be something going wrong in our society if this is happening.I tend to blame people for their own misfortune but I think I am wrong.It is very easy to go into a downward spiral.People lose their jobs or divorce and can lose their home.I don't think it is lack of education.Iam one of the lucky one's that I don't have to worry about bills but you never know the way things are going.
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>>>.I tend to blame people for their own misfortune but I think I am wrong
I think often you're right. Doesn't mean we shouldn't help them sort it out though.
We just need to weed out the scumbags.
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That is difficult Mark the scumbags tend to be crafty and know how to use the system.
You are right about helping.
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It is tough, and since you can't get it exactly right you have to work out if paying some scumbags you shouldn't is better or worse than not paying some genuine people that you should - bearing in mind that the tabloids will shout about either.
As with the NHS, financial goals and metrics are not a good way of measuring a social service.
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We had to visit our local hospital the other day for my wife.I got talking to one of the nurses and there are problems in the NHS.On the other hand I can't complain the treatment and care I received was top notch,I still talk to my surgeon sometimes and he always stressed to me that is was team work and care what saved me.People are living longer and need more care it is the way it is,the NHS can never become a business it is a service.Which we all should be willing to pay for if we want to keep it.
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We, as a country, could have the very best "free" healthcare in the world IF we are all prepared to pay the necessary costs by way of tax.
The same applies to many other "free at the point of delivery" state services.
Every whinger says "the government should increase funding for... (insert favourite cause)".
It is OUR money, i.e. taxes, NOT the government's money, which is being spent,
Last edited by: Roger on Fri 18 Oct 13 at 22:11
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Roger, please don't start saying things I could agree with, it'll ruin my weekend.
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I'm now ready for winter.
All my electric appliances are now shod with Michelin Al3pin plugs.
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What's the betting that government appeals will cause fuel providers to go easy on consumers?
I am on a 3-year, dual-fuel fixed rate till next April. I can't work out whether to change now, losing out for 5 or 6 months in the hope of coming out best over another fixed rate deal, or wait till April, when things might have improved overall.
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Me too - currently fixed electricity deal until May, could swap now and lose out, or wait till May at which date I might lose out more. I suppose it's unlikely that any price in a fixed deal today is going to be any better by early summer...or is it...hmmm...
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We're fixed until March; cost to change to the cheapest 2017 fixed tariff is ~£350pa (according to Moneysupermarket checker). So staying put for now and taking our chances.
Last edited by: Focusless on Mon 21 Oct 13 at 09:34
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We are fixed for another 18 months or so with EDF, so we'll stay put for now.
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Fixed with EDF until March 2015,... I review every three months and will switch if saving> £100 a year AND there are no cancellation charges.. AND the price is fixed at least for the same period.
EDF on line system is very user friendly I find.
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With NPower - Their online Jan14 tariff.
I might see if I can switch to one of their fixed price plans without incurring a £30 fee for changing tariffs early.
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Looks like users on fixed price plans should have a good read of the small print on their contracts, I've just heard that Ofgem has found many of the big players are still able to (and are) increase the energy prices on fixed price plans as there's a clause hidden in the contract that allows them to do this without having to inform the user.
Only a small piece on the radio so I don't know the full details.
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It really is surprising how many people are installing wood/multi fuel stoves in recent years. I moved into my place 13 years ago when it was a year old. I immediately took out the awful mock Georgian plaster fireplace and marble hearth. Someone bought the gas guzzling living flame fire for their rental property, and a pal built me a lovely stone fireplace into which I fitted a Morso Badger multi fuel. It was fitted purely on the grounds of being a nice focal point. Heating was a secondary consideration. I sometimes gather wood when out dog walking, buy the odd sack of coal, and one load of seasoned logs @£50 a year. In retrospect it was a good move and the stove is always lit once temps drop to 5C or less. Not cost effective from a heating point of view, but the whole ambience it creates is worth every penny and more.
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5C indoors (like my house!) or 5C outdoors? LOL
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>> Only a small piece on the radio so I don't know the full details.
Ditto, although my understanding is that they have been doing it, but they're not going to be allowed to now.
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>> Only a small piece on the radio so I don't know the full details.
tinyurl.com/nd36ovw - www.independent.co.uk
"
New rules came have come into force which ban energy firms from hiking prices for customers on fixed tariff deals.
Energy regulator Ofgem said providers would also be prevented from automatically rolling customers on to another fixed term contract when their current one ends, which can tie them in with hefty fees and prevent them from comparing the market."
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(wood/multifuel stoves)>> Not cost effective from a heating point of view.
I reckon mine is and, in any case, it is a useful reserve in case electricity fails and the central heating can't be used. It would be more valuable still if we could cook on it but this is, of course, possible on many models.
We have a gas fire in another room and are, so to speak, no-fire proof.
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The less publicised problem is those with oil heating. Where we live there is no mains gas and my parents are often moaning about the price of a tank of oil, it seems to go up each time. I think they mentioned something like £2000 last time, although it is a big tank. Some of the oil heats the swimming pool which is a bit of a luxury and we are looking at other options for it such as a heat pump or solar but the main problem is the house is an old farmhouse with stone floors in some of the rooms and quite high ceilings so not easy to keep warm.
There is an AGA on all the time which I suppose uses quite a lot of oil but it does heat the water and dry clothes and a few of the radiators are run off it. Dog sleeps in front of it as well. There’s a separate boiler as back-up. Sometimes in winter if one of my friends visits they might only have a T shirt on if they have come from a properly insulated house and they might mention it’s a bit chilly. I don’t notice it though, I think you get used to it. I think it’s healthier as well, I can’t remember the last time I was ill. Also earlier in the year my 26 yr old female friend knitted me a woollen jersey out of proper Aran wool, it is really quite heavy and thick but as soon as you put it on you can feel the warmth, lovely thing it is. Maybe that’s the solution, we all need to put on woollen jerseys!
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>> The less publicised problem is those with oil heating. Where we live there is no
>> mains gas and my parents are often moaning about the price of a tank of
>> oil, it seems to go up each time.
I don't think it's too bad like for like compared with gas. I doubt if they were on mains gas the bill would be much different. I think my bill is the same as gas would be if not a touch cheaper. I big draughty farmhouse is never going to be cheap to heat.
I think they mentioned something like £2000 last time, although it is a big tank.
Hells bells, they stock piling it?? ;) I think mine might take £800 if it were bone dry. I got 800l for just under £500 a few months back.
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One tank is 2000 litres but there's another one as well, not sure of its size though.
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My Mum's place is very rural and way off the gas. She's just converting a barn on her land into a retirement house, having recently finished a similar project on another barn where she currently resides. The first project has had oil fitted. The new project is getting an Austrian made wood pellet/biomass boiler installed. She's had it with oil - the existing barn conversion with oil heating is getting sold off as soon as the new one is ready.
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Just a warning about price comparison sites.
I tried Energy Helpline last night in my check for cheaper prices. They quoted back to me that my current EDF tariff would save me £200 against my current tariff.(EDF !). so I tried again.. and they then quoted me it would not save anything..
and then did not quote me back my existing tariff at all..
!!!
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Always found uSwitch the most effective for energy supply comparisons.
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A local house is now burning real coal not the smokeless stuff and this is a smoke control area, However nobody seems bothered.
Was driving home this week found more freeby tree logs got 2x boot fulls.
The stove is lit now most days taking the room from 19c to 25c and love it.
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Worth listening to Any Questions on Radio 4. Enough hot air from all to keep Britain warm all winter. Bob Crowe was at his excellent best - Nationalise this, nationalise that....oh yes you twonk that worked really well didn't it....!!!
PS
A true Socialist living in Social Housing whilst earning a 6 figure salary...!
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His good point:- He wants us out of the EU!!
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Only so he can turn England into a Stalanist state and he can ban UKIP. I refer to England, only because Wales and Scotland will have had the good sense to run off.
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>> With NPower - Their online Jan14 tariff.
>>
>> I might see if I can switch to one of their fixed price plans without incurring a £30 fee for changing tariffs early.
Just changed over to their Price Fix April 2015 tariff and they've waived the early exit fee from my current tariff.
Using their price comparison calculator, and also a couple of others, based on current gas usage the new tariff works out the same price as the old one.
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Winter electricity changes - No FM2R
