Is this phone scam possible?: Motoring Non-motoring forum

Non-motoring > Is this phone scam possible?	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Crankcase	Replies: 27

New Tue 1 Oct 13 08:05

Is this phone scam possible? - Crankcase

I logged into my bank to day and there was anew message. It was talking about things to watch out for. This sentence caught my attention - it says that scammers might

- Suggest you call the number on the back of your card or 999 for verification. (Unbeknown to you, the fraudster does not hang up and stays on the line so you are speaking to the fraudster again)

How can that work? If I make a call to you, and tell you to call another number, and you hang up, getting a dial tone, no amount of whatever I do can reconnect you to me when you make another call, surely?

I call hooey, unless I've misunderstood how a telephone works.

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New Tue 1 Oct 13 08:10

Is this phone scam possible? - Fenlander

Because it is just a recording of a dial tone they play into the phone so you think you really are phoning the number. Then the scammers mate answers as if the bank.

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New Tue 1 Oct 13 08:10

Is this phone scam possible? - sherlock47

>>and you hang up, getting a dial tone,<<

but you will not get a dial tone immediately if the calling party does not hang up. I suspect that people who have been conned just dial....

Now if I was a conman I would put a fake dial tone on the line from my end, cutting it on the first tone received from the target. Cautious callers would then assume that the previous call had been dropped. And are then scammed.

SNAP :)

Last edited by: sherlock1947 on Tue 1 Oct 13 at 08:12

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New Tue 1 Oct 13 08:24

Is this phone scam possible? - Crankcase

>> but you will not get a dial tone immediately if the calling party does not
>> hang up.

Really? That sounds weird enough I might have to conduct some experiments today. I'm going to assume a reasonable and normal method of hanging up is to press end call on a mobile, or to put the receiver down on a desk phone. I'll then see if a dial tone appears immediately or not, depending on the other party's actions.

As to the recording idea, I understand. I can't believe I'd fall for that, but I suppose somebody might. *Thinks about elderly mother for a minute*

Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 1 Oct 13 at 08:24

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New Tue 1 Oct 13 09:24

Is this phone scam possible? - sherlock47

>>>Really? That sounds weird enough I might have to conduct some experiments today<<<

Remember it will only work if it is an incoming call. It may also depend on the network that the call originates from. You may find that mobile nteworks handle it differently.

>>As to the recording idea, I understand. I can't believe I'd fall for that<<

Why not? if it is done well you would not be able to tell the difference!

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New Tue 1 Oct 13 08:24

Is this phone scam possible? - MJM

Yes it is a genuine scam. I read or heard somewhere that telecom are reducing the amount of time that someone can block a line in this way to a couple of seconds. That will kill the scam.

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New Tue 1 Oct 13 08:30

Is this phone scam possible? - Cliff Pope

There's a peculiar thing that happens sometimes. The phone rings, I pick it up, there is no one there, just a dial tone. I put the phone down, it instantly rings again, and the caller asks what was happening, he was trying to ring me.

So it seems as if a caller can book a line even though the receiving end only gets a dial tone.

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New Tue 1 Oct 13 08:50

Is this phone scam possible? - Manatee

In the old days of electromechanical exchanges you could block a line for a long time just by calling it and not hanging up. Occasionally someone would fail to hang up properly and you just could not use the phone to dial out until they did. Nor could you receive any other incoming calls.

For years now the cut off has been a couple of minutes, then the equipment freed the line automatically. The providers are now saying they will reduce that to a couple of seconds in light of this reported scam.

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New Tue 1 Oct 13 11:14

Is this phone scam possible? - bathtub tom

How many people actually listen for dial tone?

Certainly no-one of my acquaintance.

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New Tue 1 Oct 13 11:27

Is this phone scam possible? - BobbyG

www.mirror.co.uk/money/personal-finance/vishing-scammers-steal-7m-one-2230755

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New Tue 1 Oct 13 14:36

Is this phone scam possible? - Cliff Pope

I never talk about any bank or financial matter over the phone unless I have initiated the call, to a number I know to be the proper one.

The banks are themselves to blame for lulling people into falling for these scams, by themselves cold-calling trying to talk about their customers' affairs.
Whenever I move a largish sum of money into my bank account, someone rings up to ask me if I would like to open a savings account or move the money into something else.

It probably is genuine, but just once in a while a scam call will coincide with someone genuinely wanting advice, or reporting a fraud.

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New Tue 1 Oct 13 14:45

Is this phone scam possible? - Fenlander

Likewise Cliff. When my bank (was Lloyds for 30ys now TSB grrr) calls about anything I always refuse to give the security confirmation they seek but ask them to write to me or if more urgent I'll call them later through the main number.

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New Tue 1 Oct 13 17:56

Is this phone scam possible? - bathtub tom

Whenever I get a call from an organisation and they ask for some detail 'for security reasons', I always tell them to tell me, as they originated the call - never fails to flummox them.

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New Tue 1 Oct 13 19:36

Is this phone scam possible? - Fullchat

Get this with Sky all the time.

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 09:04

Is this phone scam possible? - -

>> Whenever I get a call from an organisation and they ask for some detail 'for
>> security reasons',

Presumably then most people do as they are bidden and give out confidential details because ''Kevin'' has said he's calling from their bank.

You can see why full time email scamming might well be a viable alternative to a proper job.

We don't tell 'em either Pike.

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 06:41

Is this phone scam possible? - Duncan

>> www.mirror.co.uk/money/personal-finance/vishing-scammers-steal-7m-one-2230755
>>

"Almost half the victims were over 50 years old".

Well, they would be, wouldn't they?

"Almost half", how wonderfully imprecise! What is the median age for an active adult bank customer? About 50, I would guess.

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 08:50

Is this phone scam possible? - Cliff Pope

>>
>> "Almost half the victims were over 50 years old".
>>

Does that mean more than half the victims were under 50?
Does that mean young people are more gullible than older?

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 06:36

Is this phone scam possible? - Duncan

>> How many people actually listen for dial tone?
>>
>> Certainly no-one of my acquaintance.
>>

How do you know?

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 09:06

Is this phone scam possible? - Crankcase

I said I'd try yesterday to see if I could get this to work. I was only able to try on the office deskphone, which being VOIP isn't the same technology as a home phone. Nonetheless, for what it's worth, no amount of prodding about of any variant would result in a reconnection to an existing call - within the office. I didn't try an external call.

The same applied to iPhones, tried simply because we had them.

The domestic phone experiment will have to wait a bit, partly because I don't know anybody that would take part.

So, nothing unexpected so far but noted anyway.

Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 2 Oct 13 at 09:06

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 09:21

Is this phone scam possible? - Manatee

Have you never hung up accidentally then picked the phone up to find the caller is still on the line?

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 10:41

Is this phone scam possible? - Crankcase

If you're asking me, Manatee, I don't recall that ever happening to me, no.

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 10:45

Is this phone scam possible? - Cliff Pope

>> Have you never hung up accidentally then picked the phone up to find the caller
>> is still on the line?
>>

Not just accidentally. It's the time-honoured way of clearing a poor line, by banging the hook up and down.
Ah, that's better, you say, and resume the conversation.

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 10:49

Is this phone scam possible? - Zero

>> Not just accidentally. It's the time-honoured way of clearing a poor line, by banging the
>> hook up and down.
>> Ah, that's better, you say, and resume the conversation.

Maybe in the days of dirty strowger switch gear and granulated carbon microphones it was required plus the solid bakelite phones could handle abuse.

Bang a modern phone and it will fall to bits, not that its required anyway.

Last edited by: Zero on Wed 2 Oct 13 at 10:49

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 19:33

Is this phone scam possible? - Cockle

Talking of dirty old Strowger....
Back in those times the call was deemed to be controlled by the caller as they were paying for the call so if the called party hung up then the switch train would remain in place and the caller would continue to be billed. Later it was deemed to be necessary to get equipment back in service for other users as soon as practicable so a system of Force Releasing a call was introduced. If the called party was not 'off hook' when the next meter pulse was due then the piece of equipment responsible for metering, the Local Call Timer (LCT), would Force Release the switch train to free the switches up for others to use.

On occasions a fault would occur and the call would not release and we would get a fault report of Called Subscriber Held (CSH) which would require investigation by the exchange staff to rectify and restore service.

The PBX exchanges in large companies, etc, used a different system of First Party Clear, in other words, if one of the party's hung up then the call would clear; this was done as the equipment to user ratio was much lower to keep costs down and it was important to return equipment to use as quickly as possible.

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 23:07

Is this phone scam possible? - bathtub tom

>>Talking of dirty old Strowger

Cockle must be from the same mould as me (Bletchley park and Stone?)

I remember doing a re-grade and forgetting to jumper in the LCTs. Got quite an ear bending for that.

The old howler used to be quite useful.

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 10:49

Is this phone scam possible? - Crankcase

I think I've seen that in 1940 American movies, but never in real life.

Still, as someone who has a monthly phone bill of sub £2, I don't know why I claim to know anything about the damn instruments. If it weren't for the possibility of some kind of emergency I wouldn't have a phone in the house.

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 10:58

Is this phone scam possible? - Manatee

>> If it weren't for the
>> possibility of some kind of emergency I wouldn't have a phone in the house.

The solution for you Crankcase -

goo.gl/1d67M1

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New Wed 2 Oct 13 10:08

Is this phone scam possible? - bathtub tom

>> Certainly no-one of my acquaintance.
>>How do you know?

I've got no friends.

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