Had a talk to our neighbour a cross from us whilst cleaning the car.He is retiring this year and he kept looking at his roof.I asked him if there was a problem.We got talking about solar panels again.A mate of his had some put on his roof for seven thousand pound 16 panels I think he said.
Neighbours roof is facing SW one side of our roof is facing south.Is it still worthwhile having these panels and what about the Green Deal.Any advice appreciated.Interest on savings is not worth talking about.
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Dutchie
Returns on solar panels are not as lucrative as 2 years ago. Having said that the instillation costs halved when the FIT halved (therein lies a tale). I do believe the FIT was reduced further.
This is a long term commitment and should only really be considered if you plan to stay in your house a fair few years. Depending on good light you are are looking at perhaps 7 to 8 years before you have paid off your investment. Last year was not as good as this year. The payment was guaranteed for 25years, Again I don't know if that has been changed.
They will reduce your electric bill but you have to consider items such as washing machines and dishwashers being used during daylight. They talk in terms of about £150 - £200 saved on you electric bill.
If you have money in the bank earning diddly then its a good consideration but you do not have that lump sum to fall back on if you need it because it's sat on your roof.
If you have a south facing roof that will take 16 panels then you are in the best position to consider fitting.
The other consideration is that the guarantee will expire well before your FIT contract and their is a possibility that something like the inverter could go belly up and need replacing at some stage. I don't know the cost of one of those.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sat 28 Sep 13 at 21:50
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Just had a quick tot up for you. Over 2 years I've made an average of 11.33% a year not taking into account reduction in electric bills. At that rate it is going to take me between 8 and 9 years not taking into account reduction in electric before I have paid for my panels and then I'm into true profit.
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Thanks Fullchat,8 to 9 years is a while.What about the longlivety of the panels I read somewhere that the German panels are the best or does it make any difference what you put on the roof.Don't want to move any more,we need a stairlift in the future for the missus but that is easy done.
Still like the panels, making use of nature for energy can't be bad.
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A farmer friend had them fitted on a barn roof. A commercial rather than a residential venture. Reckoned it was not one of his best investments.
I understand the inverters have a life expectancy of around ten years - just when the outlay is starting to show a return......................
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Panel technology is continually improving. They are cheap at the moment but likely to go up (because of Chinese export tariffs I think). You can now get panels with micro inverters which is good if you have shading. You can also get devices to dump your excess power into something else, rather than feeding it into the grid - nearly always an immersion heater.
Haven't done my returns for a bit but probably around the same as FCs. Although not quite such a good year for me so far, not by much though.
EDIT: from memory an inverter is about a grand, which soaks up about a year of my income at present rates.
Last edited by: smokie on Sat 28 Sep 13 at 22:59
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I really dont know. We went for Sanyo and paid extra for ones that at the time were sold based on them producing electric at lower light levels. If they really do I dont know but bearing in mind their position as mentioned above that could be a maybe. Of course technology is always advancing. You are very much in the hands of your installer bearing in mind it is quite a competitive business and their commercial interests are at the forefront (as any business). probably a bit of internet research is required.
My panels are guaranteed for 10 years and the inverter for 5.
Our system is described as being, I think, 3.86 KW which is just below the 4 KW threshold for domestic systems. Anything over and the FIT rate reduces further.
I mentioned earlier about last years weather being carp but there was only £80 difference between last year and this year. I thought it would have been a greater difference.
I woud stay clear of the companies that install them for nowt and allow you the free electric. Basically they are renting your roof space and there can be issues with mortgage providers (if you have one) and also when you come to sell your property.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sat 28 Sep 13 at 23:01
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btw if you want serious discussion on panels, this is the place for it... www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/board,7.0.html
and this thread is a good place to start www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,19989.0.html
Last edited by: smokie on Sat 28 Sep 13 at 23:02
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I have not seen much mention of such panels here in the UK.
www.renewableenergyfocus.com/view/10922/solar-pv-and-thermal-a-marriage-made-in-heaven/
Quest TV has a series " Renovation Nation ?" or a similar a US programme showing such panels being installed.
Perhaps I might ask the almost daily cold caller about them or NOT!
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A few houses round here have them, one has them on a vertical gable wall. They do spoil the look of the area IMO. Most houses here are Victorian to late 30s red brick.
Ted
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>> They do spoil the look of the area IMO.
>>
If panels covered the whole area of the roof where they are fitted IMO it would lessen the appearance of a cheap installation.
I guess shaped panels are not promoted ( available ? ) in the rush to flog as many as possible.
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I think the word hideous accurately describes most installations. On a period house with weathered slates or tiles they are really nothing short of vandalism. What they will look like in a few years when they start to deteriorate doesn't bear thinking about.
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There are some on the roof of a 1890's built terrace house, installed 2 years ago. After last "Summers" rain and gales they are now all uneven and twisted, several slates are still lodged in the gutter! They must have been fastened to the original roof joists that just weren't "upto it" when the wind got underneath them. look a right mess now!
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I have to say, I didn't get mine for their beauty... :-)
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I talked to a installer about fitting panels on old roofs whilst they where working on a bungalow near us.He shrugged his shoulders with some its all about the money.
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This Company are installing solar panels free of charge plus paying a bonus of £50.
Smells like spam, link removed...smokie
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 29 Sep 13 at 15:53
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I suspect the above post is SPAM but benefit of the doubt, just to introduce this topic to the thread.
Rent a roof is such a bad idea for many many reasons. You don't get a lot out of it (a bit of free electric) but as someone already said, there can be innumerable problems when you come to sell. I don't believe the legal situation is clear. Best avoided with a very large barge pole.
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PS
If you do get some solar panels, please send me a thank you note for the contribution I have made to your reduced bills and for "saving the world" through my "green taxes".
And a wind turbine, if you have a big garden, would be far more profitable.
I suppose it all helps to reduce that dreadful "pollutant", CO2, which is so essential to plant life and to the research grants of all those "climate scientists" who keep telling us "the end is nigh".
Thanks for saving the world. ;-)
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I think roof panels area form of visual pollution. Later buyers who think the same will be put off. Mortgagors will want to be informed, as noted above, but it is safer to tell insurers as well.
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There is an argument that panels increase house value by quote an amount, due to future guaranteed income. Some buyers would put that ahead of appearance and would, I imagine, have panels quite high on their wishlist. After all, you can't see the panels much from your own property... Panels are not challenging for mortgages or insurance, the risks are quite well known by now. EDIT: except rent-a-roof arrangements...!!
Last edited by: smokie on Mon 30 Sep 13 at 10:37
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>> PS
>> If you do get some solar panels, please send me a thank you note for
>> the contribution I have made to your reduced bills and for "saving the world" through
>> my "green taxes".
>> And a wind turbine, if you have a big garden, would be far more profitable.
>> I suppose it all helps to reduce that dreadful "pollutant", CO2, which is so essential
>> to plant life and to the research grants of all those "climate scientists" who keep
>> telling us "the end is nigh".
>> Thanks for saving the world. ;-)
While I differ from Phil on need to reduce CO2 the green taxes point is a very real one.
The biggest effect of the solar panel subsidy is to transfer money from the poor to those with enough wealth to invest a few thousand in panels or in the companies that rent your roof.
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IKEA are about to launch a range of solar panels with installation service, according to Radio % Live this morning. They said an average 3-deb semi system would be about 5.6k, and would save about £700 pounds a year on electric bills.
I might have a wee squizz at that, as I have one fully south facing large roof, which has a very shallow incline and is utterly invisible from the front and rear of my (fairly ugly anyway, 1971 built) house. No-one would ever know they were there.
I was tempted by the "free" solar panels thing, the roof renting schemes malarkey, but I decided against, gambling that purchasing your own panels was pretty much certain to get cheaper. This IKEA scheme on the face of it seems to be confirming that, and it might just be cheap enough to go for it now.
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We looked into this a year ago, but concluded:
1) Unsightly on a period house
2) Ground-mounted better if you have the space and can dig the trench for the cable yourself. But needs a clear vegetation-free arc.
3) Bolt-through fixings are a disaster for a traditional slate roof. It is bound to crack the slates. Who pays to take it all off in 5 years time to replace one broken slate?
4) It is not a real investment. However poor the rate of return on the same sum kept in a building society, at the end of the 10 years you get your capital back.
At the end of 10 years when your panels and inverter have failed, you have nothing.
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Over in Arizona on holiday this year I did not see a single solar panel - why would they not be wanting to harness the energy from their almost all the year round sunshine?
Coming out of LA we did see a windmill farm that must have numbered well into 4 figures of windmills mind you!
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>> - why would they not be wanting to harness the energy from their almost all
>> the year round sunshine?
Its called the Hoover Dam. The generator hall you didnt visit?
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Aye thats for the state - I am talking about the normal home owner punters ?
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>> Aye thats for the state - I am talking about the normal home owner punters
>> ?
If Hoover Dam can produce power at low cost then there's no incentive to get panels
AFAIK solar only makes sense in UK because of govt intervention and subsidy.
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>> >> Aye thats for the state - I am talking about the normal home owner
>> punters
>> >> ?
>>
>> If Hoover Dam can produce power at low cost then there's no incentive to get
>> panels
>>
>> AFAIK solar only makes sense in UK because of govt intervention and subsidy.
>>
Might not be for long, tour guide reckoned that if the rain fall (lack of) continued there wouldn't be enough water to produce electricity.
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>> IKEA are about to launch a range of solar panels with installation service, according to
>> Radio % Live this morning.
Bit more info:
www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/sep/30/ikea-sell-solar-panels-uk-stores
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An acquaintance of mine withdrew all his cash isa savings to install solar roof panels 2 years ago. It cost circa £10k. He is convinced that he will recoup his 'lost' savings within 6/8 years and then start to be in profit. The panels have done nothing to improve the look of the property.
I have not done any serious financial calculations, but a back of an envelope sum shows me that tax free savings, albeit low, do compound up quite seriously over an 8 year period. He intends to remain at the property for at least 10 years so I hope it works out well for him.
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I must admit, how a roof looks does not in the slightest bit interest me.
I suppose in the way that some people couldn't care less about their cars, they are only to get from A to B. In this same respect, a roof stops the rain getting in to my house. I couldn't care less how it looks, I very rarely actually see my roof!
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>> It cost circa £10k. He is convinced that he will recoup his
>> 'lost' savings within 6/8 years and then start to be in profit.
But at the end of the period his savings will be locked into some ageing panels on the roof.
Supposing he decides he would like to switch his investments. How does he extract the £10,000? Even if he decides to sell the house, it's not going fetch £10,000 more than a similar house unencumbered with old panels.
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Solar Panels. - Fullchat
