| Non-motoring > Teachers - an opinion. | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Roger. | Replies: 65 |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 17:30
Teachers - an opinion. - Roger.
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Any of you here have a teacher in the family? How many think that teachers have it easy with short hours and long holidays? My daughter is a teacher at a primary school, rated "good" by OFSTED. She is in a small village school in rural England, so may people will consider her to be fortunate in that. Mr Gove is floating ideas of lengthening school hours and shortening holidays and there is talk of a teacher's strike looming because of this. From her experience I can say that the hours actually worked are horrendous. This week she has not arrived back from work before 6pm, having started at 8.30am. She worked 10 hours in preparation and marking last Saturday. Each evening this week so far, she has not finished before 10pm. at the earliest Today's strict curriculum and the preparation needed for it, combined with marking and the complicated systems thus required (a separate spreadsheet type of record for everything each child does) take up so many hours of so-called free time at home, that she is exhausted and the term is only a couple of weeks old. After school on Fridays she also has to take the after-school-club netball activity. A newly qualified teacher (NQT) at her school was in tears the other day at the amount of work she is expected to do. I calculate that my daughter is currently working in excess of 60 hours per week in a job which requires that she puts family life and interaction with her own children to one side during term time. Our politicians have no idea about the pressures put on conscientious and caring teachers and they talk of increasing hours and shortening holidays. DUH! I can tell you that there will be a mass exodus from the profession if Mr. Gove's proposals ever come to pass. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 18:00
Teachers - an opinion. - tyro
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My wife teaches science in the local high school. She is part time (60%). I reckon that she probably works an 80 hour week, and usually works till after midnight. Since responsibility for education in Scotland is devolved to the Scottish Parliament, Michael Gove's doings don't affect her much. However, the idiocy of the Scottish Parliament and their messing about with education (the introduction of the so called "Curriculum for Excellence") does affect her, and has added considerably to her workload over the past year. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 18:01
Teachers - an opinion. - Haywain
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"Our politicians have no idea about the pressures put on conscientious and caring teachers and they talk of increasing hours and shortening holidays. DUH! I can tell you that there will be a mass exodus from the profession if Mr. Gove's proposals ever come to pass." I agree with all of that, Roger. My wife teaches in the private sector having spent 20 years or so in state schools + some time teaching in the local jailhouse. It isn't really any easier in private schools either; the kids may be better behaved, but the parents are worse; class sizes are smaller, but the hours are longer mainly because of pastoral demands. What's more, it's much less secure at a time when many paying parents are themselves under financial pressure. My wife stays positive, basically because she still enjoys working with kids, but she knows that she can retire and bail out whenever she wants to. I should add that she now works a 4-day week, taking a break on Wednesdays; that helps greatly. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 18:14
Teachers - an opinion. - Robin O'Reliant
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My SiL retired a few years ago after a career teaching in an east London school with "Issues". Within a few months of finishing she looked ten years younger. It was only after she retired she told her husband some of the things she had to deal with and his response was that if he had known about them at the time he would have physically prevented her from ever going in. Although he had known about the pupil who was stabbed to death outside the gates, she could hardly keep that quiet as it was all over the papers. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 18:29
Teachers - an opinion. - smokie
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| I understand that this thread is about teachers, but I would raise a point generally that it strikes me that there is a growing expectation on people into work additional hours - maybe not to the extent you talk about above, but clock watching is a thing of the past in most places I've worked recently. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 19:09
Teachers - an opinion. - Dulwich Estate
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Whilst accepting that a teacher's day is a long one, we are in an age where most professional jobs demand extra hours. What has to be remembered is that teachers typically work no more than six weeks at a stretch before around a week off. Then in total it's maybe 12 weeks or so off in a year. The pay is pretty darned good these days too. A Head of Department I know, 4 years out of uni and now after 3 years of work since completing the year of PGC study (which got a grant of £9000) is earning £45,000 pa. Now, taking it all into account it's pretty good and a little less moaning wouldn't hurt. I too know a young doctor doing 12 hour day and / or night shifts in A&E for a similar salary and only half the holidays. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 19:24
Teachers - an opinion. - Lygonos
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How it is going to be expected that such workloads can somehow be maintained up to 68 and beyond is very amusing to me. Anyone know any teacher who has worked to 65? Many I know didn't even make 60. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 20:05
Teachers - an opinion. - smokie
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| "Many I know didn't even make 60." - I'd imagine that decision is partly down to the comfortable pension arrangements. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 21:15
Teachers - an opinion. - R.P.
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| That's changed. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 22:32
Teachers - an opinion. - smokie
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Maybe for the new generation but I know some teachers who can't wait till they are 60 so they can retire... I can't wait either, mine will only be 6 years away then... Jealous, moi? |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 19:26
Teachers - an opinion. - madf
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A professional person complains of a long week? Welcome to the world most of us lived in for a half century. In my time I have worked 100 hour weeks - and been totally knackered for weeks on end... But then we did not have school holidays and had to pay for our own pensions... |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 19:53
Teachers - an opinion. - Armel Coussine
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I met a lot of teachers because I went to eight schools altogether. I have to say that in my opinion they did a remarkable job considering my extreme idleness and reluctance as a pupil. With a combination of violence and sheer brilliance they managed to teach me to read and write more or less and shoehorn me into an ancient university for a few minutes. This was no mean feat. However when I look as I sometimes do at texts written by education experts, teachers and even university professors, I am often struck dumb with amazement by their illiteracy and general dullness. I also note that children these days aren't taught English properly, they can't spell or punctuate and no one thinks it's worth mentioning. |
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New Sat 21 Sep 13 13:15
Teachers - an opinion. - L'escargot
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>> A professional person complains of a long week? Welcome to the world most of us >> lived in for a half century. In my time I have worked 100 hour weeks >> - and been totally knackered for weeks on end... I remember the occasion when I had to work 36 hours on the trot to get my employer out of trouble with their customers. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 21:29
Teachers - an opinion. - Harleyman
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>> >> Now, taking it all into account it's pretty good and a little less moaning wouldn't >> hurt. >> Particularly since nobody can claim that they weren't forewarned about the hours. It's not exactly a job you just fall in to either; I would assume that one spends a certain amount of one's training actually teaching in schools so the hours ones colleagues work should not be a surprise. As DE says it's not bad pay for what you do, and there's no shortage of jobs in the teaching sector. I'm not unsympathetic BTW; I wouldn't teach children for all the tea in China, being mindful of what an obnoxious little sod I was myself in my childhood. Kids certainly haven't improved since those days and parents have got much worse. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 19:45
Teachers - an opinion. - R.P.
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For the first time ever in my working life, I now clock watch - I'm out of the door after my eight - anything over and above what I work is taken as TOIL. I've worked long hours all of my careers, consequently I feel no qualms in doing what I'm paid for. Some of the others in my office work long hours, one or two work very inefficiently if they were in my team, I sort that out I'm afraid. There is no excuse or reason to stay beyond your contracted hours. As for teachers, I have some sympathy as my sister and bil are both heads of departments - my God Daughter has just started work as a NQT and expects to work until a ripe old age, my niece is a A&E F2, she works all the hours God sends - is well rewarded though. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 21:30
Teachers - an opinion. - Dutchie
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I am out of it no more long hours for me.First job at Piet Smit tugs 16 hrs shifts was regular.And heavy work towing crane barges handling the towing wires. My daughters friend is a teacher nice girl,she often has to deal with irrational parents and children who aren't toilet trained. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 21:35
Teachers - an opinion. - Robin O'Reliant
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| Living with the knowledge that you'd be suspended for up to two years while the powers that be investigated a complaint from some malicious lying torag that "Sir touched me up", and having the neighbours watch as the police walked out of your house with the computer and mobile phone would put me off the job. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 21:47
Teachers - an opinion. - Bromptonaut
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Mrs B has a first degree in Chemistry, a PGCE, thirty years classroom experience and a Masters in Science Education. If she works full time in a maintained school she'll be on about £30k to £35k. She'd then be working 08:30 to 16:30 on site plus many many more hours at home on lesson prep, marking report writing etc. Then there's the issue of OFSTED inspections - possible career death on basis of a lesson's observation. Yes the hols are good but it's like being on an oil rig or a ship; after a few weeks 'on' you need the break of being 'off'. She's much happier on supply. Can be sent anywhere from Banbury to Corby or Market Harboro' to Bletchley from a standing start at 07:30. Anything from A level to basics for remedial yr7. Classes and tasks unknown and she has her 'bag of tricks' in the boot of the car for all eventualities. £150 per day gross; no holiday or sick pay. But she chooses what she does or and if we want to go to the Hebrides in mid June we can albeit at a predictable cost in lost work. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 19 Sep 13 at 21:50
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 21:51
Teachers - an opinion. - TheManWithNoName
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My wife is a teacher and worked at a high level teaching maths in a top grammar school. She is a professional person and always worked hard to earn her pay. The job came with long hours and she didn't stop work at 3:30 once the kids left school. She left teaching to work for a software company which made and sold educational software and electronic teaching aids. The company specifically targeted ex teachers due to their skills. Again she worked long hours and had to travel a lot. She gave this up when we had a family. She is now back in teaching working as a one to one tutor in a secondary school, part time ensuring 20 kids a week get the extra help they need to pass their exams. She has no classroom issues to deal with but still has to liaise with parents. deal with kids who don't want to be taught and still has to write up reports and plan her week. She's often on the computer until 11pm planning. I never really appreciated how much work was involved with teaching but when you think about it, they have to constantly perform in front of a class of kids and make sure they get it right or they'll be torn apart not just by the kids but by their parents and peers, governors and inspectors. And if they're having a bad day they can't simply shut their office door and ask their secretary to hold all their calls. All this happens whilst the government is constantly interfering too. That said, I think summer hols are too long and could be cut to 4 weeks. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 21:57
Teachers - an opinion. - Zero
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I would never be a teacher, you have to take your vacation at the same time as all the kids, you never get away from the little beggars even on holiday. Dont hold with all this "work longer hours than anyone else" crap tho, its just like any private sector job, with just the same working unpaid overtime, the same pressures to perform, the same management bullsheet hurdles to jump and same boxes to tick. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 22:06
Teachers - an opinion. - TheManWithNoName
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| No-ones saying a teacher works 'longer hours' than many other professionals but there is often this misconception by many that a teacher's day starts at 9am and stops at 3:30pm. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 22:27
Teachers - an opinion. - movilogo
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My wife is working as secondary maths teacher since last year and half. Since then she is always depressed which in turn makes me depressed as well. Some of her colleagues (females) got divorced and they claimed a teacher should only marry another teacher. I can very well feel why. Hours are horrendous, salary is peanuts, stress is too much, family life is wrecked. Wouldn't advise anyone to become teacher in UK. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 08:47
Teachers - an opinion. - commerdriver
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>> Wouldn't advise anyone to become teacher in UK. >> yet it is surprising how many are the second or third generation in a family to teach My wife's father was a teacher, she now teaches in the local secondary school and daughter has just started her PGCE year at Winchester to go in to primary teaching. As a few have said the hours are bad but no worse than many other professionals. I do think that in many ways the pressures are worse, short notice OFSTED inspections for one and the assumption that if kids kick off in a lesson it's always the teacher's fault What most teachers get annoyed about are the government interference and the bland assumption from some that the holidays are long and the day finishes at 3:15 |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:16
Teachers - an opinion. - movilogo
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>> the hours are bad but no worse than many other professionals. It is not the hours but the stress. In other professions, often you just put longer hours to get your work done. In teaching, your success is measured by how well the pupils are performing. This is the root cause of problem because: * some pupils have absolutely no interest in learning * some of them are *very* nasty and you can't reprimand them * there is too much paper work (besides teaching)!! * Ofsted interfering with unworkable plans |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 08:59
Teachers - an opinion. - Ambo
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Teaching would be a curious choice for someone who did not have a strong vocation for it. That many do, and many of these women, render them liable to exploitation, on the lines that the OP highlights. In any case, money was not a lure in the case of our local academy. Advertisements for a new head teacher at a salary of £100,000, which I thought outrageously high, produced no response for ages. Luckily, and excellent woman was found in the end and did an excellent job. Yet, as an example of the barriers that exist, influential cleric governors from the local see were reluctant to appoint her, as she refused to claim that she was a Christian believer, when she was not. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:52
Teachers - an opinion. - Fenlander
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>>>It is not the hours but the stress. In other professions, often you just put longer hours to get your work done. In teaching, your success is measured by how well the pupils are performing. This is the root cause of problem because: * some pupils have absolutely no interest in learning * some of them are *very* nasty and you can't reprimand them * there is too much paper work (besides teaching)!! * Ofsted interfering with unworkable plans In a non-teaching job.. *Some employees have no interest in doing a worthwhile days work * Some of them can be very devious and you can't easily sack them without long due process. *There is too much paperwork or wasted time dealing with non crucial mails. *Management interfering with unworkable or unrealistic plans. I have a lot of contact with teachers at the moment from our children's perspective and within the family. I see most of them doing very well, and where teachers are married to teachers with one or both in a leadership role their financial ability, houses and cars are quite surprising. I do not seek to put them down but they are far from a special case re over work and low pay. Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 10:54
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 11:04
Teachers - an opinion. - Bromptonaut
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>> I have a lot of contact with teachers at the moment from our children's perspective >> and within the family. I see most of them doing very well, and where teachers >> are married to teachers with one or both in a leadership role their financial ability, >> houses and cars are quite surprising. >> >> I do not seek to put them down but they are far from a special >> case re over work and under pay. Any family with two graduate professional incomes is going to be some way from the breadline. The salaries for leadership roles have increased markedly on last few years. My own theory is that such posts/pay carry an increasing risk premium. Everything depends on the league tables and OFSTED. The latter is an unpredictable beast subject to the barminess of it's current leader who seems craven to the equally barmy Gove. A well regarded school can, almost inexplicably, go from a good mark to a poor one in succeeding inspections. The consequence can be instant career death for the SMT. The league tables distort everything. Kids learn, more or less by rote, how to pass the exam. Not how to understand the subject mark you, just how to acheive against the mark scheme. Massive emphasis on supporting kids who are borderline D/C or B/A. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 11:25
Teachers - an opinion. - Fenlander
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>>>A well regarded school can, almost inexplicably, go from a good mark to a poor one in succeeding inspections. The consequence can be instant career death for the SMT. Sadly our daughter's secondary school has had one very average and two poor Offsteds in the 7yrs we've been asociated with the place, the last one about a year ago that actually made a comment that the management weren't doing as good a job as the believed they were. Yet over those 7yrs 16 of the 19 leadership posts are still held by the same people and the 3 changes were due to natural turnover. So as an outsider forgive me if it seems these people seem somewhat bulletproof. Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 11:27
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 11:14
Teachers - an opinion. - Cliff Pope
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I'm not really entitled to a view on teachers, coming from a background where we only had masters, and having home-educated our own children. But those I have met do strike me as having more concern with pumping in the prescribed quota of authorised facts rather than of drawing out an open-ended vein of ideas. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 12:52
Teachers - an opinion. - TheManWithNoName
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| That's because Cliff they are trying to squeeze in the subjects of the curriculum, and theyre not allowed to deviate. Teachers often want to be left alone to get on with chalk n talk lessons but too much external interference can put paid to that and if a teacher deviates in any way from the 'plan' they can be ostracised and hung out to dry. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 13:10
Teachers - an opinion. - Bromptonaut
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>> That's because Cliff they are trying to squeeze in the subjects of the curriculum, and >> theyre not allowed to deviate. Teachers often want to be left alone to get on >> with chalk n talk lessons but too much external interference can put paid to that >> and if a teacher deviates in any way from the 'plan' they can be ostracised >> and hung out to dry. That's pretty much on all fours with Mrs B's observations. Each subset of the overcrowded curriculum is allocated a slot for its completion. Get behind and you're in trouble. Lessons are about understanding what the examiner wants, not understanding the subject. And the kids now expect to be fed stuff that way. Try and explain the concepts and they just want to know what the markscheme says. Parents complain at lack of progress. Which is why Uni's complain that freshers need a term just to get conceptual stuff under their belts. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 13:11
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 13:38
Teachers - an opinion. - Paul Robinson
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My Wife was a primary school class teacher in the state sector and has left the job for all the reasons stated above. The final straw was when she was trying to get more help for a special needs child and got a warning from the headteacher for speaking out about it, as it might reflect badly on the school. She now earns similar money with a vastly better lifestyle. I understand teaching is unique amongst the main professions, in that it has more people of working age qualified to teach that don't, than the numbers that do teach! says alot really! |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 13:49
Teachers - an opinion. - Number_Cruncher
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>>Which is why Uni's complain that freshers need a term just to get conceptual stuff under their belts. Sadly, it goes further. The students are resistant to conceptual thinking, and are reluctant to undertake any task which doesn't have marks attached. I don't know what a teacher's workload is, but, after time spent working in a number of different branches of engineering, I've seldom* worked harder or for longer hours than as an engineering lecturer. * Apart from a period spent machining aerospace parts, where there was unlimited overtime available - I was single at the time, and saving up to go to university, so, 80+ hour weeks were put in, and I filled my boots. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 13:57
Teachers - an opinion. - Manatee
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There are good teachers and bad ones, same as any other occupation. I envied them their holidays, but certainly not the developments in the job since my mother was a primary head 30 years ago. I shall be forever grateful to my daughter's class tutor in her state compo. She joined the school in the first year a term and a bit into the academic year in 1992/3, which could have been very hard for her. He spent some time with us, and her, and asked a couple of the other girls to 'mind' her for a week or two while she settled in. All three went to Oxford or Cambridge. The pupils mocked him as an eccentric, which he was; but he cared and was genuinely interested in their education. He was effectively hoofed out eventually for not delivering on the form filling and sticking to the curriculum, or so I was given to understand. Anything, approached as a way to climb the greasy pole, is about gaming the system. Unfortunately it's not easy to measure education, only the ability to answer predictable questions, and that's what marks are awarded for. The lucky ones get an education has well, but that is getting harder for the good teachers to provide I suspect. I have wondered whether it's worth even teaching things like history, geography, RE and English lit. Pearls before uninterested swine for the most part. Focus on the means to learn and the necessary scientific grounding. Probably a bit too far out for Mr Gove. The boss, for reasons I won't bother to relate, had very little formal education beyond reading, writing and arithmetic; yet she is one of the best culturally educated people I know with an encyclopaedic general knowledge. She may not have been taught, but she was enthused. Basically, she reads a lot, always has, and is effectively self educated. The gaps are in the sciences, although plant biology has been filled in as a result of a love of horticulture. She can tell you a lot more about history, geography, art, books, costume, poetry, plays etc than I can and she's the one in demand for quizzes. Funny thing this education. Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 13:59
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 14:14
Teachers - an opinion. - DP
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My mum and four of my cousins are teachers. While I wouldn't say they have it any tougher than most of us in the private sector, they certainly work far longer hours, and far many more weeks of the year than they are given credit for. When you factor in planning, preparation and marking, as well as parent teacher evenings and all the other bits teachers never seem to get any credit for, I don't think 45 hours a week is rare, or 50 unheard of. Mum works for a few hours most weekends, and for several days of holidays. Add to that some unsupportive and occasionally unruly parents, and meddling politiicians, and it's not easy. While I don't like militant unions, and sometimes think a bit of reality check is needed where they are concerned, it is also true that the main factor in a decent education is decent teaching, and without decent teaching, the country has no future. While that is not grounds for unreasonable demands or special treatment, I don't think teachers get the credit they deserve. Last edited by: DP on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 14:15
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 14:11
Teachers - an opinion. - Cliff Pope
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>> >> and if a teacher deviates in any way from the 'plan' they can be ostracised >> and hung out to dry. >> So why is turning potential human beings into robots claimed to be a "vocation"?. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 14:44
Teachers - an opinion. - Ambo
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>>It is not the hours but the stress A third factor is at least as important, psychic drain. I used to reach end of term a complete zombie, having given out and got scarcely anything back intellectually. I imagine this applies in other caring professions as well. Yet I was teaching adults (although nominally only, in most cases). God knows how school teachers survive. A dedicated "special needs" teacher I know says all he can do is make sure the children don't stab each other. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 15:17
Teachers - an opinion. - Dutchie
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| Is it that bad to be a teacher? All this stress to teach people what a strange world we live in. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 15:17
Teachers - an opinion. - Bromptonaut
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>> >> >> >> and if a teacher deviates in any way from the 'plan' they can be >> ostracised >> >> and hung out to dry. >> >> >> >> So why is turning potential human beings into robots claimed to be a "vocation"?. It may well be ceasing to be such but for many (see Manatee's post above) whove been in the job for a bit it still is. My two both did History A level with same pair of teachers doing a double act and splitting the core areas of the course between them. Both manage to get excellent results AND inspire a love of and feel for subject. Both are doing History as part of their degree course. History and other humanities require proper understanding (of motives for example). I suspect Maths or Science are more susceptible to the 'painting by numbers' type of learning. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 15:35
Teachers - an opinion. - Number_Cruncher
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>>I suspect Maths or Science are more susceptible to the 'painting by numbers' type of learning. Yes,...., and no. While it's important to be sure that an engineer could design a bridge that won't collapse as soon as a 44 tonne truck drives over it, and there's only one right answer, there is also an element of critical evaluation, of designs, of experiments and of methods and techniques. So, for a weaker science or engineering student, in just the same way as a weaker arts & humanities student learns by rote, the better students are the ones who can develop arguments, and think more critically. I'm going to ignore your below the belt suggestion that science doesn't need proper understanding. Last edited by: Number_Cruncher on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 15:36
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 15:48
Teachers - an opinion. - Mapmaker
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>>I'm going to ignore your below the belt suggestion that science doesn't need proper understanding. Um. The brightest of my friends who read Maths never did any work. "It's obvious." Pascal is supposed to have worked out one of Euclid's theorems himself at the age of 12 (that the sum of angles of a triangle is two right angles). For me, first year Physics was a struggle, mathematically. 'How much more quickly does your watch tick if it's in a room with a 5cm lead carpet?' It's not possible to guess who won the second world war, you have to learn it... History's therefore a doddle, you just have to learn a load of facts and regurgitate them. Obviously. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 16:10
Teachers - an opinion. - Bromptonaut
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>> It's not possible to guess who won the second world war, you have to learn >> it... History's therefore a doddle, you just have to learn a load of facts and >> regurgitate them. Obviously. True so far as it goes. But beyond GCSE/O level (and even there for a A/A*) you need to show understanding and argument then conclusion. Who won the war is obvious. The relevance of the 'Battle of Britain' say allied (tactics - Leigh Mallory v Park, learning from the Luftwaffe - gun type and convergence, abandoning formation flying in favour of 'finger four') from the German perspective was there even such a thing as BoB?. PLenty room there for different conclusions - even in an area that seems clear cut on surface |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 16:01
Teachers - an opinion. - Bromptonaut
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>> I'm going to ignore your below the belt suggestion that science doesn't need proper understanding. If it came over as below belt it certainly was not intended; clumsy language on my part. Indeed, I thought we'd agreed up thread that kids were leaving school able to tick boxes but without 'getting' some of the underlying concepts. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 16:09
Teachers - an opinion. - Number_Cruncher
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>>clumsy language on my part. OK - I'm far from immune from that myself. ;-) |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 15:52
Teachers - an opinion. - Focusless
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>> I suspect Maths or >> Science are more susceptible to the 'painting by numbers' type of learning. You still need some sort of ability, vocation or otherwise, to be able to handle a roomful of kids who might not all be keen to be there. Just knowing your subject matter isn't enough; in fact it's probably of lesser importance in some (most?) schools. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 15:58
Teachers - an opinion. - Number_Cruncher
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>>Just knowing your subject matter isn't enough Oddly, knowing your subject can be considered an active hindrance. The better you know and understand your subject, the less you can remember and appreciate the conceptual difficulties in learning. Therefore, demonstrably improved results have been demonstrated by asking the students to teach each other - peer to peer. Although it's a bit long, this is interesting; www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwslBPj8GgI Last edited by: Number_Cruncher on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 16:00
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 15:43
Teachers - an opinion. - Mapmaker
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>>This week she has not arrived back from work before 6pm, having started at 8.30am. >>She worked 10 hours in preparation and marking last Saturday. Each evening this week so >>far, she has not finished before 10pm. at the earliest Chum of mine has recently started at a Public School. His alarm goes at 7.30am, and he's on duty from the moment he steps out of his shower until 11pm. This isn't a six-day-a-week job either. Another chum of mine is a lawyer. His hours make Beak's hours look like a part time job. In Victorian times, mill workers would have easily worked a 14 hour day. Times change, and nothing with them. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 17:37
Teachers - an opinion. - Runfer D'Hills
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I've not had a day off ( Aye including weekends ) since the 10th of August. Some of those working days were as long as 20 hours each. Some weren't of course but 9 hours is the very least I seem to get away with at the moment. This week alone I'll have done over 80 hours. Posting carp on here sometimes helps ease the tension of course. And I don't have a pension. Pah ! Off tomorrow though. Might fit some "sleeping" in if I can remember how to do that. Bit out of practice on that one ! I'd kill for a job that allowed me to work 9.00 'till 6.00 5 days a week with school holidays off and and a pension. As it is, the current one may well kill me ! Feel free to scoff / sympathise / not care. All the same to me ! :-) |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 18:20
Teachers - an opinion. - Haywain
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"I've not had a day off .........." Just going back to the original question - do you have a teacher in the family? |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 18:23
Teachers - an opinion. - Runfer D'Hills
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| Used to be married to one. She didn't work so hard. Became a head teacher though in the end. Good luck to her. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 22:05
Teachers - an opinion. - Zero
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>> "I've not had a day off .........." >> >> Just going back to the original question - do you have a teacher in the >> family? Kind of. Nicolle does guest lecturing at the university school of nursing faculty where she got her degree, and mentors the student nurses in the field. Last edited by: Zero on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 22:05
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New Sat 21 Sep 13 11:30
Teachers - an opinion. - Roger.
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| While handing over a parcel delivered to us on behalf of a neighbour, SWMBO was chatting about teaching -the lady is an experienced primary school teacher - she said that had been up since 4 am marking work, followed by a full day at school, after finishing up at 11 pm the previous night! |
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New Sat 21 Sep 13 11:45
Teachers - an opinion. - Runfer D'Hills
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| Sounds like someone who would benefit from a course on managing their time ! Some people are though natural "victims". I'm guilty of that myself to an extent. I still labour under the delusion that most things are do-able and are better done by me than someone else and rarely refuse to take on extra work. Not entirely sure why. Having done so I then whine ( mainly to myself ) about how over-worked I am. It may be a form of self-flaggelation I suppose. Some people do take a perverse pleasure in being seen as put upon. I fight that trait in myself daily. It's remarkable how much easier things get and how much you can get done in a shorter space of time when you take a positive view of it rather than a negative one. In my experience anyway. |
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New Sat 21 Sep 13 14:50
Teachers - an opinion. - L'escargot
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>> Any of you here have a teacher in the family? There are no teachers in our family, but I have a friend who was a teacher up to about two years ago when he retired. About five years prior to that he had been made redundant and took an early retirement pension. He was immediately re-hired as a supply teacher (at a salary several times his previous salary) teaching the same subject(s) at the same level at the same school. He kept this up for his final five years until he completely retired. He said that his total income from his pension and his supply teacher's salary was significantly higher than if he had been on a normal teacher's salary. He got free dinners at school every day on the pretext that he was supervising the pupils having their dinner. In practice there would be about a dozen teachers claiming free dinners, but only one would actually be doing the supervising. He said that during the whole of his teaching career he had rarely left school in the afternoon later than the normal finishing time of the pupils. He said that it was his experience of teaching being such a doddle that led him to persuade both his daughter and his daughter-in-law to go into teaching. |
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New Sun 22 Sep 13 09:23
Teachers - an opinion. - Baz
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RF I've not had a day off ( Aye including weekends ) since the 10th of August. Some of those working days were as long as 20 hours each. Some weren't of course but 9 hours is the very least I seem to get away with at the moment. This week alone I'll have done over 80 hours. What do you do? Presumably self employed with those hours! Sometimes important to take a step back and look at the "BIG" picture, i.e, why am I doing this? And there's only one answer with those hours, to build enough stash to become financially independant!! I say this as 2 friends recently dropped dead, one didn't make 35, the other 50-Look after yourself |
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New Sun 22 Sep 13 10:00
Teachers - an opinion. - legacylad
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I can contribute two totally opposite anecdotes. Daughter of my ex, teaching A level pupils, attended St Andrews then Oxford for her teaching qualification. 5am prepping lessons, lots of extra curricular stuff, driving the debating team hundreds of miles at weekends and adored by the kids. Mid 20s. Amazingly enthusiastic. Then moved overseas with hubby (they met at Uni and returned to his native home). When we visited she was up at 4am!! prepping lessons, then burning the oil late into the evening. Not always liked by her colleagues because she was rapidly promoted and was both smart & savvy compared to some of them. OTOH my US friend teaches primary age children. Out the house at 07.45, school starts at 08,15, finishes 3.30pm and we meet for Happy Hour at 4.15pm! Very little marking at home, sometimes meeting parents after school for a hour or two, but makes the most of very long holidays. She loves her kids, well most of them, but tells me she is in it for the pension and holidays. Not a career teacher, went into the job in her late 30s after several jobs elsewhere, and cannot wait to retire so she can spend days rafting on the river. Both enjoy teaching on the whole. Probably for different reasons. |
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New Sun 22 Sep 13 10:03
Teachers - an opinion. - Runfer D'Hills
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Thanks Baz, although as someone once said something like, it's tough to concentrate on draining the swamp when you're constantly fighting off crocodiles ! Maybe I should re-train as a teacher... ;-) |
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New Sun 22 Sep 13 10:16
Teachers - an opinion. - Zero
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>> Thanks Baz, although as someone once said something like, it's tough to concentrate on draining >> the swamp when you're constantly fighting off crocodiles ! You want to be thankful you are not working in this swamp. www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-alligator-hunters-break-record-for-biggest-beast-ever-caught--three-times-in-a-week-8809474.html |
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New Sun 22 Sep 13 10:07
Teachers - an opinion. - Harleyman
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>> >> What do you do? Presumably self employed with those hours! Sometimes important to take a >> step back and look at the "BIG" picture, i.e, why am I doing this? And >> there's only one answer with those hours, to build enough stash to become financially independant!! >> Pack it in, take your HGV test and go drive a truck. Your hours are strictly limited by law and you have to take regular breaks, you get to see a bit of scenery and the only time you come across hordes of screaming kids is when you get stuck in the school run and sit there waiting for all the Chelsea tractor owners to clear off. You'll never get rich doing it though. ;-) |
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New Sun 22 Sep 13 10:11
Teachers - an opinion. - Pat
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...and you'll work more hours than you do now (legally!) Pat |
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New Sun 22 Sep 13 10:21
Teachers - an opinion. - Ambo
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>>my US friend teaches primary age children... makes the most of very long holidays. Holidays with pay? I believe American teachers are only paid for teaching time, not on vacations, although they can have their term-time payments paid in monthly instalments over the year, if they wish. This is why so many of them take vacations jobs, not necessarily to do with education. |
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New Sun 22 Sep 13 10:32
Teachers - an opinion. - legacylad
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ambo I forgot about that detail...she is paid in 12 monthly instalments. The arrangement seems to work well. I have no idea what her salary is but the lifestyle is very comfortable. |
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New Sun 22 Sep 13 22:48
Teachers - an opinion. - PhilW
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Teaching is, like most jobs as easy/time consuming as you wish to make it. You can, in some cases just do the minimum but if you are really committed how about taking on a few extras? Even the minimum is pretty stressful because you have to give seven or eight "performances" every day in front of an audience who can be pretty demanding and will heckle mercilessly if you fall short. Even the minimum demands that outside class time you must do lesson preparation ready for 8 "performances" the next day. You must do marking in the evening, maybe 2 sets of lower school books and, maybe, 30 A level essays. Then we have reports. You may have a couple of hundred each term, each of which has to comment of the positives and negatives of each child to show every parent that you know the exact characteristics of each child. Add in the daily staff meeting, the weekly Head of Depts Meeting, the weekly Departmental meeting (all of which require minutes to be taken, written up and distributed) and all of which take place outside "working hours". Oh, and don't forget those "Parents Evenings" which start at 5pm and last 'til 10 pm - 2 per term for Yrs 7 to 13 - that's 14 evenings twice per year - another 28 evenings in the pub missed let alone the other 351 missed because I was marking or writing reports. (Joke) Probably missed a few things there but let's move on to other "extras". How about "Prep Duty" - runs from 4.30 to 7pm for those who wish to stay in school to do their homework. Detention duty - same times Running a rugby/hockey/football/cricket team - training after school 2 nights a week from 4 'til 6. (for 2 terms for me- Sept 'til end March) GCSE Coursework Club - one evening per week, Jan to may plus one week of Christmas Hols A level Coursework club - one evening per week, Jan to may plus one week of Easter Hols. Year 8 Field Trip doing outdoor adventure stuff in Snowdonia - Half term hol of Summer Term Year 12 Field Trip - first week of Easter hols Year 10 Field Trip - Easter term half term break. First week of Summer Hols - clearing up! and doing all text-book /stationary ordering ready for next year. Fourth week of summer hols - going into school for GCSE results, issuing them to pupils and advising on A level courses. Fifth Week of Summer hols - going into school for A level results (only pretty girls pass A levels and you saw photos of them in the Daily Mail) and helping with UCAS/Uni/ Higher education possibilities (always easier for pretty girls in short skirts leaping in the air as per Daily Mail, and now the Torygraph). Sounds like I had a hard time? No - apart from one year in a terrible school where life was miserable because the kids were totally out of order, I loved it - and yes, I did take on running rugby/soccer/hockey teams and went on loads of fieldcourses (no better way of getting to know a childs characteristics than out of the classroom - take that in the way I mean it!). Had a couple of ski-trips, and a trip to Greek Islands also with pupils - look back with great affection to 99% of pupils I taught and hope they remember me in the same way. By the way, my Dad was also a teacher - my memory of him from when I was very young was of a bloke who came home at about 5.30 every evening, had his tea and then sat reading piles of books and writing things in red ink on them 'til I went to bed. But then I also knew teachers who rolled up at 9 am, went through the motions and left at 4pm, never ran a team, never ran an after school club, never took pupils on a fieldtrip etc. But then you know those guys in your line of work don't you? P |
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New Sun 22 Sep 13 22:48
Teachers - an opinion. - PhilW
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Sorry about that - far too long. P |
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New Mon 23 Sep 13 08:49
Teachers - an opinion. - Ambo
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>>Sorry about that - far too long. On the contrary, a very valuable insight into what teaching really involves . |
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New Mon 23 Sep 13 19:37
Teachers - an opinion. - Haywain
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"Even the minimum is pretty stressful because you have to give seven or eight "performances" every day in front of an audience who can be pretty demanding and will heckle mercilessly if you fall short." "Performance" is exactly the right word; yet another reason why teaching is getting more difficult, is the need to compete with the speed and excitement of computer games to an audience with the concentration span of a goldfish. Last edited by: Haywain on Mon 23 Sep 13 at 19:38
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