| Non-motoring > Free school dinners | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Pat | Replies: 67 |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 17:17
Free school dinners - Pat
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I expected to have seen a discussion on here about this before now. Am I really the only one who, as a pensioner and still working to maintain a few luxuries resents paying tax to provide this? I expect a barrage of abuse but surely if you choose to have children you expect to feed them. I have no objections to the current system where the needy get free meals but giving them to all children for at least two years, is the ultimate in subsidising those who don't need it. Pat |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 17:49
Free school dinners - Roger.
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Those who need free school lunches can get them now. I see no reason why people who can afford to feed their progeny should not do so whilst aforesaid offspring are at school. This is a grandstanding, vote catching, opportunity for The Cleggster, no more & no less. Last edited by: Roger on Thu 19 Sep 13 at 17:50
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 18:08
Free school dinners - tyro
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To quote what has been written elsewhere, 1) There is no such thing as a free lunch 2) Someone is going to have to pay for it some time 3) The national debt is still rising, in other words we are not paying for it right now 4) It will be paid for, in other words, sometime in the future, by the kids who are getting these lunches. Government borrowing does, of course, attract interest, so the youngsters will also have to pay interest on their meals. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 18:18
Free school dinners - Fursty Ferret
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>> Am I really the only one who, as a pensioner and still working to maintain >> a few luxuries resents paying tax to provide this? *Dons flameproof suit* Those of us subsidising winter fuel payments, TV licenses, free bus travel and free prescriptions when we'll get none of those things might argue a similar point... Just sayin'. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 18:34
Free school dinners - Pat
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>>Those of us subsidising winter fuel payments, TV licenses, free bus travel and free prescriptions when we'll get none of those things might argue a similar point... << The difference of course, is that you will one day become a pensioner and benefit from all the above, but I will never have children. just saying! Pat |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 18:47
Free school dinners - CGNorwich
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| If it stops one child going hungry I am for it. The sad story of Daniel Pelka scavenging in the school bins sticks in my mind. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 19:49
Free school dinners - Fursty Ferret
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^^ What he said. The money that gets wasted elsewhere in failed government initiatives and general balls-ups makes this a drop in the ocean. And Pat, the current perks pensioners enjoy almost certainly won't be around in 35 years. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 20:20
Free school dinners - Robin O'Reliant
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| All benefits should be means tested, and that includes the Old Age Pension. If someone has a few million in the bank and a fifty thou a year occupational pension why should the state (ie the rest of us) have to top up their income? |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 20:50
Free school dinners - Bromptonaut
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>> All benefits should be means tested, and that includes the Old Age Pension. If someone >> has a few million in the bank and a fifty thou a year occupational pension >> why should the state (ie the rest of us) have to top up their income? Yebbut, You'll make no realistic saving by denying Alan Sugar and his ilk their pensions and passes. Return will only come when OAP benefits are withdrawn form those with over (say) £15k in other income. But those people relied on getting RP when planning their pensions, savings ets. Also, THEY VOTE!!! |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 21:45
Free school dinners - mikeyb
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As someone who stands to benefit from this........ I don't really see the benefit, but then I live in an approaching middle class area where deprivation isn't an issue - perhaps if my circumstances and surroundings were different my view would be. Not sure what the cost of this is, but I imagine its small change in the bigger scheme of things |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 21:47
Free school dinners - Robin O'Reliant
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>> Yebbut, >> >> You'll make no realistic saving by denying Alan Sugar and his ilk their pensions and >> passes. Return will only come when OAP benefits are withdrawn form those with over (say) >> £15k in other income. But those people relied on getting RP when planning their pensions, >> savings ets. >> >> Also, THEY VOTE!!! >> Pensions was just one example, universal benefits irrespective of need are a nonsense. As for voters, there is a growing realisation that we can't go chucking public money round willy nilly anymore, there are consequences both now and long term. Anyway, here's Holly Harper's advice to Nick Clegg and his free school dinners - www.thedailymash.co.uk/features/agony-aunt/no-matter-what-i-do-everybody-hates-me-2013091979616 |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 07:00
Free school dinners - Meldrew
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The costs of the infrastructure and personpower required to means test all benefits would hugely exceed any possible financial saving! Re free school lunches, most schools will not have kitchen capacity to provide these from their existing facilities so stanby by for planning applications and kitchen extensions. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:12
Free school dinners - Alanovich
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>> Re free school lunches, most schools will not have kitchen capacity to provide these from >> their existing facilities This is one of the reasons my children have been sent to a private school. The (otherwise excellent) primary school in my catchment has no kitchen. I want my children to get a hot meal at lunchtime. There were other reasons to go private as well, but we saw that as a really important part of our decision. We aren't exactly minted and we both need to work stressful jobs to do it, but do it we will to ensure the children are properly fed. A cold packed lunch won't cut the mustard for us. I wonder now how that local primary school will provide these free hot meals. There is no room on the site to build a kitchen, as the school is already too big for its physical site. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:18
Free school dinners - Mapmaker
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>>This is one of the reasons my children have been sent to a private school. Wow. I had no idea, Alanović. I'm astonished - and a little bit pleased. I had you down as an idealistic socialist who would do no such thing, ever. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:39
Free school dinners - Alanovich
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>> I >> had you down as an idealistic socialist who would do no such thing, ever. >> So did I. Have to be pragmatic sometimes though. I expect them to go to state senior school in due course. We'll put them in for the Grammars, but if they miss out then our local comprehensive is Ofsted outstanding. Most of the other children at their current school will, of course, be heading for very prestigious senior private schools, and I hope that we don't get dragged along with the Jonses on that one. If we do, I'll have to sell a couple of internal organs. Per year. Is it possible to downgrade a Renault Laguna? Mitsubishi Lancer, maybe. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:42
Free school dinners - Mapmaker
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| Less what the Joneses expect than what the little Alanovići expect... |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:46
Free school dinners - Alanovich
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| They'll go where they're sent. No problems there. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:40
Free school dinners - Bromptonaut
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>> The costs of the infrastructure and personpower required to means test all benefits would hugely >> exceed any possible financial saving! >> Re free school lunches, most schools will not have kitchen capacity to provide these from >> their existing facilities so stanby by for planning applications and kitchen extensions. There was already a move back to school kitchens before this and dating back to the Jamie Oliver etc initiative. Our primary converted it's kitchen into extra class space in the eighties with kids required to bring packed lunch. A new kitchen was added around 5 years ago and hot meals now served again. Same in several others in the same cluster. Suspect that, while requiring some new build, a lot of this will be met by sharing and central kitchens. My own primary's lunches came on a truck form another nearby school fifty years ago. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 22:55
Free school dinners - bathtub tom
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>> All benefits should be means tested, and that includes the Old Age Pension. If someone >> has a few million in the bank and a fifty thou a year occupational pension >> why should the state (ie the rest of us) have to top up their income? What about those that were frugal throughout their working lives to ensure they'd have a comfortable retirement? Should they be disadvantaged compared to 'spendthrifts' who weren't so cautious? |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 23:05
Free school dinners - Robin O'Reliant
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It's not meant to hit at the frugal, if they've paid for a retirement pension that gives them a comfortable lifestyle when topped up with the state pension good luck to them. But there are many people in this country to whom the old age pension is no more than loose change they wouldn't miss if it fell through a hole in their pocket. They don't need it and shouldn't get it. Under the last government people earning up to 66k a year could be eligible for Tax Credits, now I believe it's down to fifty grand but even that's ridiculous. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 07:03
Free school dinners - Meldrew
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| It is not easy to see how anybody can or should be deprived of a benefit to which they have contributed for 44 years, in the case of a full state pension. A private pension provider could not do so and neither should a Government |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:53
Free school dinners - Mapmaker
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>> It is not easy to see how anybody can or should be deprived of a >> benefit to which they have contributed for 44 years, in the case of a full >> state pension. A private pension provider could not do so and neither should a Government >> But you haven't contributed to a benefit for 44 years. You've paid your taxes for 44 years. And whilst retired the Government can choose whether or not to give you cash. Easiest way to deal with it is to remove the tax-free personal allowance from pensioners, so as to claw back the old age pension. Reduce the annual allowance by 20p for every £1 earned over £30k. It's £6k per annum so people earning over £60k get no state pension. Perfectly sensible and fair. Best of all, it's easy to administer. Age allowance reduced by 20p for every £1 earned over £15k. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 12:25
Free school dinners - Manatee
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>> >> It is not easy to see how anybody can or should be deprived of >> a >> But you haven't contributed to a benefit for 44 years. You've paid your taxes for >> 44 years. And whilst retired the Government can choose whether or not to give you >> cash. Pension planning is a long term thing. It's reasonable to expect to receive what you have been promised. In fact, much of what we might reasonably assume we had been promised has already been lost with the missing years of earnings linkage. >> Easiest way to deal with it is to remove the tax-free personal allowance from pensioners, >> so as to claw back the old age pension. Reduce the annual allowance by 20p >> for every £1 earned over £30k. It's £6k per annum so people earning over £60k >> get no state pension. Perfectly sensible and fair. A marginal rate of tax for those between 41.5 & 60k of 60%? 60% tax on pension savings you got 40% relief on? It's hard enough to get anybody to save for a pension now. Anybody with advance knowledge will limit their pension savings to avoid it and put the remainder of their provision elsewhere. Unless you are advocating doing it to those who have already built up their pensions, which is just theft and will make younger people even more wary of saving. I suppose there's a kind of justice. At the other end of the income scale there's already little point in having a £200,000 pension pot to supplement state pension - the £100 a week it will buy you as an annuity will be 90% lost from your pension credits/housing benefit. For the avoid of doubt, I do not expect to have anything like £60k annual retirement income. Whatever the answer is, it's not simple. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 21:41
Free school dinners - Zero
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>> And Pat, the current perks pensioners enjoy almost certainly won't be around in 35 years. Nor will Pat, she wants it now. Me? I am patient, 7 years time will do me. |
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New Thu 19 Sep 13 21:49
Free school dinners - Dutchie
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Everybody failed that little Polish lad.Some kids have no change in live with dysfunctional parents.
Last edited by: Dutchie on Thu 19 Sep 13 at 21:51
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 04:40
Free school dinners - Pat
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>>Everybody failed that little Polish lad.<< They did and it was a tragic loss of life but feeding every child under 7 years old with a school dinner won't stop it happening again to another child or make that child have a happy home life. Using it as an example is like a bit of moral blackmail. FF homed in on pensioners benefits, and I'm not going to defend them. I compare the expense of the free school dinners to the recent bedroom tax, the one benefit fits all introduction which has seen a lot of people worse off. The amount of people having to use food banks who are struggling to survive yet are in low paid jobs. Taken in that context the money could have been put to better use. Pat |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 08:11
Free school dinners - CGNorwich
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| There is no doubt that a lot of young children go hungry or do not receive a balanced meal. If the proposal means that such children receive at least one decent meal a day then I believe that a worthwhile use of taxpayers money. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 08:52
Free school dinners - Cliff Pope
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>> There is no doubt that a lot of young children go hungry or do not >> receive a balanced meal. If the proposal means that such children receive at least one >> decent meal a day then I believe that a worthwhile use of taxpayers money. >> As Churchill once said, there is no better investment for a nation than putting milk into babies. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 08:12
Free school dinners - Fursty Ferret
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RE: Bedroom tax. Know exactly where you're coming from on this Pat, and have a lot of sympathy. But on the other side of the coin there's a single mum near me with three really nice kids whose husband walked out on her crammed into a tiny two bed flat, while somewhere close by a single person rattles around a three bed council semi. Repeat x 10,000 and you begin to appreciate that the situation is somewhat complicated. I think there is a more subtle way to do it - "we'll pay your moving costs and provide you with meals on wheels etc if you agree to move" than slapping a tax on unoccupied homes, but ultimately I think the single mum and the kid need priority. If this is the only way to do it, so be it. As it stands an alternative approach would be forced swaps, which will make the "bedroom tax" seem like a drop in the ocean! |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 08:38
Free school dinners - Pat
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The bedroom tax is unfair, and will continue to be so, whilst tenants are charged it while waiting for local councils to move them into a one bed house. There is a dire shortage of small properties in all areas but this hasn't been taken into consideration at all. Any tenant who is ready and waiting to be down sized should be exempt. Pat |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 09:00
Free school dinners - commerdriver
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>> The bedroom tax is unfair In some specific instances in any benefit cut there are those who lose unfairly But while there are so many cases of people living in crowded accommodation while others still live in 3 bedroom houses long after the kids have left home, all at the taxpayers expense, something has to be done about it. Did make me laugh on Saturday when someone in a radio 4 discussion on this seriously tried to make the point that anything under 70 sq ft wasn't big enough to classify as a bedroom anyway |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 09:01
Free school dinners - Fursty Ferret
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>> The bedroom tax is unfair, and will continue to be so, whilst tenants are charged >> it while waiting for local councils to move them into a one bed house. >> >> There is a dire shortage of small properties in all areas but this hasn't been >> taken into consideration at all. >> >> Any tenant who is ready and waiting to be down sized should be exempt. >> >> Pat >> Maybe if councils across the country talked to each other then this wouldn't be such a problem. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 09:46
Free school dinners - Pat
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Maybe FF but if you were recently bereaved from having a life long partner would you really want to move away from the remainder of your family? Who would care for you when you needed it...social services instead of family? Pat |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:24
Free school dinners - commerdriver
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>> if you were recently bereaved from having a life long partner would >> you really want to move away from the remainder of your family? >> Don't know if that's how it's being applied but that is surely not how most who support the cut would expect it to be used. two people living together and one person living alone should both be in a 1 bedroom property in council housing terms. The concept of the cut is for situations where one person, or a couple are living in a 2 or 3 bedroom house when there are families on the waiting list living in, say, a 1 bedroom house, that is what is unfair |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:29
Free school dinners - Mapmaker
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>> Maybe FF but if you were recently bereaved from having a life long partner would >> you really want to move away from the remainder of your family? >> >> Pat If you're living in state-subsidised accommodation, then tough. Tell me, Pat (and you cannot because it's illogical) how can you justify denying free school lunches to everybody whilst at the same time defending the right of an older person to continue living in a huge house just because they always did? |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:35
Free school dinners - Pat
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>>Tell me, Pat (and you cannot because it's illogical)<< Not much point in me making the effort then. The two are not a direct comparison anyway, and it certainly isn't the case of to have one option we have to lose the other. Pat |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:48
Free school dinners - Bromptonaut
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>> If you're living in state-subsidised accommodation, then tough. >> >> Tell me, Pat (and you cannot because it's illogical) how can you justify denying free >> school lunches to everybody whilst at the same time defending the right of an older >> person to continue living in a huge house just because they always did? Don't buy the like it or lump it approach to so called state subsidised housing as a principle. Bit too much like the workhouse and be grateful for the thin gruel. So far as the 'bedroom tax' goes there is an issue of fairness with the principal and how it is being applied. Cases are just starting to get to the First-tier Tribunal with interesting outcomes over what is and is not a bedroom. No doubt some will be appealed so another year at least before any proper legal authority emerges. The other is practicality. In many places there is simply not the supply of smaller properties to meet the demand. Those that are available are buy to let places in the private sector and as costly as the old place. This is not a measure to redistribute the social housing stock. It's about red meat for the backbench and the right wing press. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 12:34
Free school dinners - commerdriver
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>> This is not a measure to redistribute the social housing stock. It's about red meat for the >> backbench and the right wing press. I don't think we will ever agree on political matters Bromp but that is over simplistic and just plain wrong. We have a limited housing stock (cue more debate about the wisdom or otherwise of council house right to buy and the aspirations of home ownership among the working class) but more important we have a huge benefit bill that has gone way beyond what the original architects of the welfare state would have intended and not just financially but socially it needs to be readjusted. This measure has cases that are unfair but as a whole we need to balance the needs of all those who cannot finance their own housing and not just dismiss a real attempt to do this as some kind of political stunt. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 13:03
Free school dinners - Bromptonaut
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>> This measure has cases that are unfair but as a whole we need to balance >> the needs of all those who cannot finance their own housing and not just dismiss >> a real attempt to do this as some kind of political stunt. It goes beyond unfair. People are now accumulating debt while being unable to be rehoused. Either that debt sticks to them, or given most lack a pot to p#ss in, it will be a loss of revenue to the Landlord. And that's without touching on family break up or kid's education interrupted by forced move. I'd have no issue with a well thought through and flexible plan to re-jig allocation of social housing. But this IS a political stunt by a government that's found, largely by manipulation of public opinion in the right wing press who present the egrgious as the typical, kicking the poor to be a vote winner. As I've said before their philosophy is to let the squeezed middle blame the poor for their plight while the truly rich carry on accumulating ever more obscene amounts. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 08:16
Free school dinners - tyro
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"feeding every child under 7 years old with a school dinner won't stop it happening again to another child or make that child have a happy home life. Using it as an example is like a bit of moral blackmail." Alas, Pat, you are right. If one takes the view that £600,000,000 is money well spent to prevent one seven year old from starving to death, then you are also going to take the view that spending £700,000,000 to prevent one eight year old from falling to his death is money well spent, and that £1,000,000,000 to prevent one nine year old from getting onto a railway track at a level crossing and being killed is money well spent and spending £1,000,000,000,000 to stop a ten year old from being killed in a car crash is money well spent and so on ad infinitum. Or so it seems to me. Last edited by: tyro on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 08:20
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:23
Free school dinners - movilogo
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>> surely if you choose to have children you expect to feed them. Slightly wrong, our government is promoting the following version if you choose to have children you expect tax payers to feed them % of free meal takers in a school is a good measure to identify how good/bad the school is. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 11:21
Free school dinners - bathtub tom
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>>% of free meal takers in a school is a good measure to identify how good/bad the school is. Can't agree with that. There's an academy I know of that's over 90% ethnic minority (you can guess the type of catchment area). It regularly gets outstanding Ofsted reports. It has a very high percentage of free school meals. I suspect it's down to the dedication of the staff and being an academy isn't hamstrung by council diktats. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 11:34
Free school dinners - Bromptonaut
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>> >>% of free meal takers in a school is a good measure to identify how >> good/bad the school is. >> >> Can't agree with that. >> >> There's an academy I know of that's over 90% ethnic minority (you can guess the >> type of catchment area). It regularly gets outstanding Ofsted reports. It has a very high >> percentage of free school meals. >> >> I suspect it's down to the dedication of the staff and being an academy isn't >> hamstrung by council diktats. Take up of free meals is an indicator of social deprivation and a likley marker for schools that will have more than its share of kids with problems attaining their potential. It is not though in itself a measure of success/failure by a school. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:27
Free school dinners - Gromit
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As suggested above, you have to weigh the cost of giving a benefit to everyone against the cost of means testing it if the entitlement is restricted. I remember a school uniform subsidy being given to needy pupils in my school. Those who got it were often taunted for being poor. Kids can be nasty that way, and you can imagine its far easier single out Johnny who get the hot meal while Jim brings a lunchbox from home. Also, if the meals are healthy (big if!), its a chance to promote healthy eating, with big savings possible on the NHS in the long term. Here at home, the Growing Up in Ireland study has announced this morning that even at 3 years old, 25% of Irish children are now obese. I can't imagine the UK is much different. As for cash benefits, the only straightforward way I can think of allocating them is to have negative tax, i.e.: everyone submits a tax return each year. A tax-free allowance is given for dependents, housing cost and anything else that is to be subsidised. Now set a minimum income standard - if your income is lower than that, you get a top-up. If not, you pay tax. Simples? BUT, who decides the minimum income? How much work is involved in that? No so simple after all... |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 10:32
Free school dinners - Mapmaker
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>> to have negative tax, i.e.: everyone submits a tax return each year. A tax-free allowance >> Simples? Well-educated people struggle with the tax return form. A simpleton who can barely read or write will have to pay to have their tax return completed. Last edited by: Mapmaker on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 10:33
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 11:51
Free school dinners - RattleandSmoke
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I went to a school in the innercity for complicated reasons. It was in one of the most deprived areas of Manchester and I remember there were two ques for lunch. One was the teachers the other was for people with dinner tickets. I think in the entire school out of 500 people, there was less than 50 pupils who didn't have a diner ticket. If the system didn't exist then I am not sure what would have happened, but certainly as we got into year 11 a lot of us used to sneak out through the hole in the fence and go the fried chicken places for lunch in Rushulme. I do agree with the idea of free healthy meals for those from poor backgrounds, but this plan free meal for all is simply potty. At a time when people are being made homeless because they cannot afford the rent on their two bedroom flat and there is a shortage of one bedroom flats it seems mad to spend millions on giving free meals to infants from privileged backgrounds. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 12:26
Free school dinners - Alanovich
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>> Am I really the only one who, as a pensioner and still working to maintain >> a few luxuries resents paying tax to provide this? Never mind pensioners. As someone paying enormous private school fees at the expense of some of life's other luxuries, I don't resent it. I and others like me, and the childless, could argue that we shouldn't be paying tax for state education at all. It's all part of the greater good. So be it. It's better than the alternative. (this bit isn't aimed at you, Pat, or anyone in particular.) There really are some un-Christian attitudes pervading this supposedly Christian country which certain elements of society are so vocally declaring to be under threat. It's a bit like Communism - there never has been and never will be a truly Communist nor a truly Christian country. The Soviets had little to do with Marx, the Christian Churches, all of them, have little to do with Christ. Venal power and money grubbing bandits is what they are. The point being missed here is that many of those whose children are entitled to free lunches simply don't take up the offer, for one reason or the other. The children often then get sent to school with a pack of 29p Asda SmartPrice pork pies for lunch. These are the ones the policy is seeking to catch, and there's very few other ways to deal with it and ensure that the most disadvantaged (and by that I mean those with the most arrogant and feckless parents, not just the most financially bereft parents) are given a fairer chance to perform well and benefit from the school education which we are as a nation providing at great expense. It's been proven that a good diet is vital for good concentration and academic performance. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 12:37
Free school dinners - Manatee
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There's more to this than free food. There must be quite a few children now who almost never eat sociably or sit at a table and eat with a knife and fork, and don't know what hot food is when it's not cook-chill ready meals or fast food. The wife of a friend of mine got a job as a school cook a few years ago. Despite having something ridiculous like 37p a meal for ingredients, within a couple of years about 85 out of 90 children were having school dinners, compared with 20 when she started. According to her, the school found the children were much better behaved and easier to teach as well, than when they were all feeding on crisps and chocolate biscuits. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 14:06
Free school dinners - Roger.
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Children are better behaved and learn better if they are properly fed.(So my daughter says!) With many parents it is not real shortage of money which prevents proper nutrition, it is either idleness (the ASDA pork pies/crisps for school lunch example) or ignorance of (a) what is a balanced diet and (b) the lack of knowledge of how to cook! For many years there has been little, or no, teaching of home economics in schools., with the result that young people enter adulthood just do not know how to cook. The abundance of ready meals has to be a contributory factor, as has today's lifestyle where both parents have to work, leaving little time for the disorganised to home cook. It is a fact that many families NEVER sit down together at a table to eat like civilised people: many families do not actually HAVE a dining table! Snacking or grazing while gazing at the TV is the norm in many family units. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 14:11
Free school dinners - Alanovich
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>> >> It is a fact that many families NEVER sit down together at a table to >> eat like civilised people: 7 days a week in our house, twice a day at weekends. *breathes on back of fingers, polishes imaginary badge* Most families I know are the same. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 14:15
Free school dinners - Roger.
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Same - always has been, always will be - our daughter has imposed the same standards in her life. Our grandchildren @ 7 & 10, always sit at the table, wait until everyone has been served to start eating, use their cutlery correctly, say please & thank you and ask if they may leave the table. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 14:24
Free school dinners - DP
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>> Same - always has been, always will be - our daughter has imposed the same >> standards in her life. >> Our grandchildren @ 7 & 10, always sit at the table, wait until everyone has >> been served to start eating, use their cutlery correctly, say please & thank you and >> ask if they may leave the table. >> My kids do this too (8 & 6) And from the astonished reaction we get from shop or restaurant staff, you'd think we'd taught them differential calculus! It is clearly out of the ordinary to serve polite children. Last edited by: DP on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 14:25
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 15:38
Free school dinners - Mapmaker
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>>And from the astonished reaction That's why nobody else will join our forum. A bunch of old fuddy duddies we are. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 16:06
Free school dinners - Pat
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I'm not trying to be pedantic or argumentative MM but I'm not an old fuddy duddy. I've always tried to do my best with what I could afford and there are many families who still do this today. As an example, I was lucky to have worked 'in service' in my teenage years while still at school to earn some extra money and it taught me many social skills. Correct knife and fork, which wine in which glass and how to tackle various foods. In later years when I got into sales and had to attend some 'posh' dinners this information was invaluable to me. I was determined to see my Son, who is 47 now, had the same sort of basic skills. This meant saving up to take him out for meals and make sure he knew how to behave, to tackle a whole trout, use the correct cutlery and to be polite and courteous. My grandson is now 20 and they have made sure he has had the same sort of basic grounding despite not always being able to afford it. School dinners can never replace a good upbringing and it's the parenting at fault when children don't socialise and only eat at Maccy D's. Pat Last edited by: pda on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 16:06
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 16:22
Free school dinners - Roger.
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>> >>And from the astonished reaction >> >> That's why nobody else will join our forum. A bunch of old fuddy duddies we >> are. >> 7 No, we have standards! |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 15:56
Free school dinners - Bromptonaut
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>> 7 days a week in our house, twice a day at weekends. *breathes on back >> of fingers, polishes imaginary badge* >> >> Most families I know are the same. Same in my household. Even now when kids are only here during Uni Vac etc. we eat together in eveninig. Seperate meals allowed if they're going out (though they may have to cook for themselves). They've also been expected to help set/side tables and help with cooking since primary school. Both can also operate a washing machine, dishwasher and vacuum cleaner. Most of their friends eat en famille but by no means all. Use of domestic equipment seems less common. Housemates last year were straight to Miss B for instruction in/problems with washer etc. Same when fuses tripped or whatever. None seemed to have much clue about checks when a fuse goes like what was done or running at time and turning high drain stuff off before attempting to re-set circuit breakers. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 15:57
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 17:15
Free school dinners - Armel Coussine
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To revert to the subject: while many if not most schoolchildren have parents who can well afford to feed or even overfeed them, it may simply be cheaper to give them all a 47p free lunch for a couple of years than to means-test all parents, pursue those trying it on, etc etc... Easier for school staff too. Trouble with this society is it's too damn rich and spoiled for its own good, thank goodness... but it does make us seem rather silly a lot of the time, badger-lovers, fracking freaks, speedbump and chicane merchants lobbying for 20mph in towns, it's almost unbearable sometimes. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 17:16
Free school dinners - R.P.
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| I agree with the free school meals - Most people don't realise how lucky they are. There's a for instance with the new Bedroom tax...this can drop people's budgets right in the brown stuff. There is now genuine poverty out there. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 17:24
Free school dinners - MJW1994
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| Agree with the social aspect, getting everyone sitting down together. Provided food fights don't start! |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 19:38
Free school dinners - Lygonos
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Stop feeding patients in hospitals too. They'd be buying their own food if they were at home. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 20:10
Free school dinners - R.P.
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| If you are serious - just to note that some benefits do stop when the recipients are in hospital.. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 20:37
Free school dinners - CGNorwich
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Good idea. Would have the twin benefits of saving the NHS money and as the patients would be paying with their money they would feel they had the right to complain if the food was not up to standard , A bit like charging a modest fee to see your GP really. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 20:55
Free school dinners - Armel Coussine
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>> Stop feeding patients in hospitals too. As you doubtless know Lygonos, in large areas of the world, where hospitals are few and far between, and poorly funded, the relations of hospital patients camp outside in the hospital grounds cooking food for them over open fires. It's a bit hard on the relations but the patients get home cooking. And of course they are probably very lucky to have got to a hospital when they needed one. Your idea is a good one, wards filled with convivial scenes of tattooed relations bearing buckets of curry, pizzas, kebabs and so on. Sounds terrific in fact. |
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New Fri 20 Sep 13 22:41
Free school dinners - Zero
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>> I agree with the free school meals - Most people don't realise how lucky they >> are. There's a for instance with the new Bedroom tax...this can drop people's budgets right >> in the brown stuff. There is now genuine poverty out there. There has always been genuine poverty out there, just as there has always been skivers, dodgers and moaners. The bedroom tax is a farce, as always by the tories, a sound idea badly implemented with appalling publicity. Council tenants should be informed that, contrary to their beliefs, their council house is not theirs nor do they have a right to it for life. Its social housing, and the tenancy should be on an annual basis, with need reviewed. Kids left home? spare bedroom? You get moved to a smaller one. Bigger family, new kids? you get moved into the vacated bigger home. Income now at a high enough level? you should be moved into the private sector housing (ARE YOU LISTENING BOB CROWE?) Now to school meals, while we are cutting incapacity benefit It is scandalous to waste money on free food for kids, most of whom wont eat it. Its ridiculous posturing by the liberals. |
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New Sat 21 Sep 13 01:12
Free school dinners - Fullchat
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I appreciate there are few fans of the public sector and the Police but the force I work for has an annual budget of around £185M 85% of which is for salaries. Since austeritity kicked in we had to save in the region of £30M by 2015 in the comprehensive spending review. The majority of this saving is being achieved by the cutting of both Police and Support Staff posts. Most forces are in similar positions. And yes the public sector does need to run more efficiently - no argument. There is currently a review as to how we can function on a smaller budget with a view to reducing what we respond to and overall responsibilities in some areas. Bearing in mind that the Police are the last stop shop for all of life's ills. You may argue that this may not be a bad thing but we have always been there as a backstop. These ideas are not coming from central government, they are not and will not give a directive as to what the Police will no longer undertake. The reverse infact. More and more responsibility and bureaucracy is being piled on the Police. Now currently an idea being canvassed is the suggestion that all staff should take a reduction of 2hrs per week which could save something like (I can't remember the exact figures) 125 Police Officer posts or 300 Support Staff posts. Once again this sort of thing is not unusual in the private sector in an attempt to keep businesses running until things improve. So to get to the point, what is starting to stick in peoples throats is that the government is perfectly happy to throw £600M free school meals and god knows how much in foreign aid yet be skinning an important part of the public sector. I don't expect sympathy but just saying. Last edited by: Fullchat on Sat 21 Sep 13 at 01:15
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New Sat 21 Sep 13 01:25
Free school dinners - No FM2R
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As far as I can see people are striving to achieve a cheap police force. The best I've heard is that they want an efficient force. Personally I'd rather pay more and strive to have a [more] effective one. Measuring the NHS or the Police by efficiency as judged by financial metrics seems a little out of place. Surely we should set effectiveness targets and stump up the neccessary budget for that. Insofar as free school meals are concerned, it seems like a reasonable idea and approach. If a child is so well fed at home that they can pick and choose their school dinners then good luck to them. Personally I remember being thankful. It shouldn't be an either/or situation. Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 21 Sep 13 at 01:26
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New Sat 21 Sep 13 11:37
Free school dinners - swiss tony
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>> Kids left home? spare bedroom? You get moved to a smaller one. Bigger family, new >> kids? you get moved into the vacated bigger home. Income now at a high enough >> level? you should be moved into the private sector housing (ARE YOU LISTENING BOB CROWE?) That's a good idea. One that most tenants would agree with. Problem is, historically the housing stock has never matched the needs of the tenants. |
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New Sat 21 Sep 13 15:13
Free school dinners - L'escargot
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| At some schools you can apparently get free dinners if you are a teacher pretending to be supervising the pupils having their dinner! |
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