I see the union's promising a strike.
I was around when BT was privatised. The union fought it tooth and nail, calling a strike. It was inevitable it was going to happen and a few of us stayed in. The majority lost a couple of months wages (and pension contributions, which they came to regret).
I can see it all happening again.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 13 Sep 13 at 01:41
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If I may be pedantic, the Post Office is NOT being privatised. Royal Mail is. They are now separate organisations
edited header to reflect this
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 13 Sep 13 at 01:41
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If they offer the workers some kind of share option, cheap or free shares say, you think they will go on strike?
Royal Mail was ideally placed to make a fortune as the country switched from mail to internet shopping delivery.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 12 Sep 13 at 11:45
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>> If they offer the workers some kind of share option, cheap or free shares say,
>> you think they will go on strike?
BT staff were and those that borrowed loads of money to take full advantage made a killing.
I don't think the terms were available at the time of the strike.
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>> BT staff were and those that borrowed loads of money to take full advantage made
>> a killing.
I did a university placement at Martlesham a year or two after privatisation. I remember half the office moaning about someone who had made a killing. But when I spoke with him, he's remortgaged his house to raise the funds - so he'd taken the risk that the others had not.
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Despite the written conditions associated with the BT staff offer they reneged on the deal and scaled back the allocations made to the staff. I did take legal advice, but the prospect of sucess was not seen as havoing 100% guarantee of winning the case.
Rumour had it that there was a Technical Officer who worked in the City and was able to put up funds approaching £0.5 M. That spoilt it for the few who were capable of raisng smaller (but still significant) sums.
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So why should a load of people make a killing when the govt sells off its assets? Surely that means the govt of the day got less income than it could have?
If Royal Mail is now making profits whilst sticking to the rules that postal charges should remain the same no matter where you are in GB, why sell it off? Why not continue to make profit for the country?
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>> If Royal Mail is now making profits whilst sticking to the rules that postal charges
>> should remain the same no matter where you are in GB, why sell it off?
>> Why not continue to make profit for the country?
Because if it remains in public ownership, it will end up not making any money, it will end up costing us money. Like everything in public ownership.
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So you reckon if we had kept BT, Gas, Electricity then they would all have been costing us money? And as consumers we would have being paying more as well?
No chance
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>> So you reckon if we had kept BT, Gas, Electricity then they would all have
>> been costing us money? And as consumers we would have being paying more as well?
>>
>> No chance
Yes chance. NO public utility has EVER been cost efficient. Plus if we had kept BT in public ownership you would still be on dial up.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 12 Sep 13 at 21:11
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So its more efficient to have hundreds of power companies with their head offices, admin and sales costs etc than it is to have one?
And all these companies making hundreds of millions profits each but we couldnt have turned in a profit by keeping it Nationalised?
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>>Yes chance. NO public utility has EVER been cost efficient.
Scottish Water?
www.watercommission.co.uk/view_Monitoring_Performance.aspx
Royal mail was a cash cow for the govt in the 80s/early 90s I believe - 200-300 million profit annually (PO Counters ran cost neutral, and Parcelforce lost money every year)
Virtually nothing of that profit went into RM investment.
Labour practices, however, were some of the crappiest ever, but even these have been hauled into the 20th.. maybe even 21st.. century over the past few years with tough management and no need for privatisation.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 12 Sep 13 at 21:25
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>> Labour practices, however, were some of the crappiest ever, but even these have been hauled
>> into the 20th.. maybe even 21st.. century over the past few years with tough management
Nope, still crappy by any measure.
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>> >>Yes chance. NO public utility has EVER been cost efficient.
>>
>> Scottish Water?
>>
>> www.watercommission.co.uk/view_Monitoring_Performance.aspx
Has only NOW become as good as the private sector, was 40% WORSE. And that in a country where it rains every day.
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>>Has only NOW become as good as the private sector
Thanks for seeing you were wrong.
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So you only have that one small example? out of all the others? Best you can do?
Not that much wrong was I.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 12 Sep 13 at 21:45
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Nah.
No point nationalising industries where true competition can be created.
Water companies just seem like a nonsense - at the end of the day it is largely the regulator and not the company itself that decides how good a deal the customer ends up with.
Maybe the "Jock Sovereignty Fund" can be sustained by hawking water to you guys after the North Sea ends up empty.
**Bah Zero edited his anti-Jock racist slur: he'll be joining Roger and Stu next ;-)
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 12 Sep 13 at 21:50
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>> Nah.
>>
>> No point nationalising industries where true competition can be created.
>>
>> Water companies just seem like a nonsense - at the end of the day it
>> is largely the regulator and not the company itself that decides how good a deal
>> the customer ends up with.
>>
>> Maybe the "Jock Sovereignty Fund" can be sustained by hawking water to you guys after
>> the North Sea ends up empty.
>>
>> **Bah Zero edited his anti-Jock racist slur: he'll be joining Roger and Stu next ;-)
Wasnt racist, I merely said "when you lot sod off you can nationalise what you want" Bobby will nationalise everything.
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In my version of Utopian Jockland, Glasgow gets surgically removed and shifted over to the Irish subcontinent where it belongs ;-)
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You state no example exists.
I show one.
My maths suggest you were therefore infinitely wrong.
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if it pleases you, if are really that insecure, sure - go ahead.
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Thanks.
Your humility is appreciated.
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I know its tough to walk in my shadow. Chin up.
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I always walk behind you.
It keeps the flies off my chippy.
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Bobby will nationalise the chippy, you wont be able to afford any.
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I bet it'll serve salt and vinegar rather than salt and chip sauce too.
Damn Commies.
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you'll only get a choice of Irn' Bru. No Vimto.
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Diet Bru - the choice of the health conscious Scotsman.
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I hope not or I might go out of business.
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'sok, Bobby will nationalise you, you need never work again. Just show up from time to time.
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That's sounds ok, but I don't think nationalising the golf courses will work out well.
I'm off to practice my English accent in case plan B is required.
Spiffing, what-ho old chap.
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Bobby will nationalise the chippy, you wont be able to afford any.
Ah, but by doing that it will ensure that everyone can afford the chippy and not just the chosen few!
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>Ah, but by doing that it will ensure that everyone can afford the chippy and not just the chosen few!
Mmmm, I visited East Berlin before The Wall came down. There weren't any chippy's, there was £$%! all.
And you can forget your fried Mars Sunday lunch.
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>> And all these companies making hundreds of millions profits each but we couldnt have turned
>> in a profit by keeping it Nationalised?
But they never did when they were nationalised, did they.
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>>
>> >> And all these companies making hundreds of millions profits each but we couldnt have
>> turned
>> >> in a profit by keeping it Nationalised?
>>
>> But they never did when they were nationalised, did they.
>>
As a point of history.
PO Telephones the precursor of BT was in profit every year from 1938-39 up until it became BT in 1981.
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Och, don't let a good fact spoil Zero's ramblings.
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>> PO Telephones the precursor of BT was in profit every year from 1938-39 up until
>> it became BT in 1981.
I'm afraid your historical fact are not accurate. There was no thing called "PO Telephones" There was a group called "Post Office Telecommunications" formed out of the GPO Telegraph and Telephones department in 1969, and only at that point was it given separate profit or loss accountability.
Now I would have thought you might have chosen Cable and Wireless from 1947 to 1981 to beat me over the head with.
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IIRC it was called the Post Office Engineering Department.
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>> I'm afraid your historical fact are not accurate. There was no thing called "PO Telephones"
>> There was a group called "Post Office Telecommunications" formed out of the GPO Telegraph and
>> Telephones department in 1969, and only at that point was it given separate profit or
>> loss accountability.
Post Office Telephones was certainly a trading style, though it may have been a department of the Post Office rather than a separate corporate entity.
I saw this recently - should bring back the memories.
goo.gl/9spv5C
I'd be surprised if there weren't at least nominally some departmental accounts.
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You can call the telephones side whatever you wish but there are separate accounts available in the archives if you care to look.
www.postalheritage.org.uk/page/statistics
In fact the last time the telephone/telegraph side made a loss was in 1921 due to exceptional investment and wage increases following the austerity measures followed during the Great War.
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>> >> Plus if we had kept
>> BT in public ownership you would still be on dial up.
>>
I wish we were on dial-up. Our home broadband has been out of action for three months while BT faff around doing tests, inventing explanations, sending out engineers, wasting hours of time on fruitless calls to the Helpline.
BT and Openreach are locked in a never-ending dispute over the fault, each blaming the other. Finally one man with a ladder (our 5th engineer) has said the line is rubbing on a tree about half a mile away. But he cannot of course fix it. It has been referred to yet another team who will send out a surveyor to decide what to do.
That's efficient private industry of course, not a nationalised undertaking.
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>>If I may be pedantic, the Post Office is NOT being privatised. Royal Mail is. They are now separate organisations
Probably in same way that trains are privatized but tracks are not :-)
Last edited by: movilogo on Thu 12 Sep 13 at 16:30
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>> >>If I may be pedantic, the Post Office is NOT being privatised. Royal Mail is.
>> They are now separate organisations
>>
>> Probably in same way that trains are privatized but tracks are not :-)
Some of the trains are.
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A short history of privatisation in the UK: 1979-2012 tinyurl.com/omxlqtu
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>> I see the union's promising a strike.
>>
>> I was around when BT was privatised. The union fought it tooth and nail, calling
>> a strike. It was inevitable it was going to happen and a few of us
>> stayed in. The majority lost a couple of months wages (and pension contributions, which they
>> came to regret).
>>
>> I can see it all happening again.
As I understand it there are ongoing disputes about pay and conditions including strike action. While the privatisation is no doubt a factor in stance of both employer and union they are not, as i understand it, strikes against privatisation itself.
The prospectus for the shares has had to highlight the action because it is potentialy material to future results.
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so in what way is it a bad idea? In what way is the country dependent on a bunch of tattooed hairy men in shorts?
We no longer need the royal mail. Its just not needed. In fact it would cut down my junk mail.
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To be honest who really cares a hoot who delivers the junk mail and the stuff they ordered from Amazon.
In a few year tine the daily letter mail service will seem a thing of the past like telephone boxes steam engines and canals. Nobody sends personal letters and post cards these day. The post consists of junk mail and bills. to be honest if the whole lots was delivered once a week it wouldn't be a concern to me.
I doubt whether there will be a daily postal delivery in five years time whoever owns the service. Hardly anything delivered by mail these days is time critical so daily mail delivery is doomed to disappear.
Any money to be made is in parcel delivery and quite frankly who cares whether their goods are delivered by DHL, Royal Mail or Deutscher Post?
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If the Royal Mail goes on strike, people will suddenly realise how little they are needed.
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It would certainly save work transporting the junk mail from the hall floor to the recycling bin.
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The postman brought me two ebay packages today, and a memory card coming next day from Amazon tomorrow is Royal Mail too. If they keep the pricing right they should be able to maintain the density for daily deliveries.
Maybe the main worry is the decline of junk mail, which must be contributing a big whack to fixed costs. Its effectiveness must decline as it competes with electronic means, and bills/statements are increasingly online too which is the other prop.
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Anything I get from Amazon is delivered by the same woman who goes round with the mail order catalogue stuff. All other small packages could easily be delivered the same way, there is no shortage of courier firms or people willing to do courier work. Nothing I get letter wise couldn't come over the net, in fact I can't remember the last time I wrote a letter myself.
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This is great for all the people stopping at home able to accept deliveries made by non-RM, if you aren't you usually get one more chance of re-delivery and then you have to go to the couriers central depot for pick-up which for me is easily over 25 miles away, whereas if a get a red card from RM it's just a 10 minute walk up to the village and the Sorting Office.
As for once a week deliveries, I can see that meaning the end for the card/greetings industry.
I just see how privatisation of the current mail service will improve the regular/convenient RM service I currently have.
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>> This is great for all the people stopping at home able to accept deliveries made
>> by non-RM, ...
I recommend a parcel safe box.
It's left open. The person delivering puts the parcel in the box, then turns the lock. Only you can open it with the key.
It took a little while to train the various delivery people, but it now works a dream.
The only downside is if you have two deliveries in a day - the second one finds the box already locked.
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>>I recommend a parcel safe box. Only you can open it with the key
Eh, I wouldn't bank on it.
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"I just see how privatisation of the current mail service will improve the regular/convenient RM service I currently have."
I think you miss the point -It's not meant to make the service better. The aim is to make the service economically viable. If the RM continues in its present format and under public ownership its going to cost the taxpayer an awful lot of money.
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See also Britain's railways.
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>> Nothing I get letter wise couldn't come over the net, in fact I can't remember
>> the last time I wrote a letter myself.
>>
19% of the UK population doesn't have a computer. tinyurl.com/p9k7c87
Although I have a computer, 'er indoors has never used a computer. A lot of her childhood pals have never used a computer.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 13 Sep 13 at 07:37
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I think the better measure is daily access to the internet. Which is lower than the link you gave, but rising fast.
www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/rdit2/internet-access---households-and-individuals/2013/stb-ia-2013.html
What really jumped out to me was the rise in internet shopping. In 2013, 72% of all adults bought goods or services online, up from 53% in 2008.
Last edited by: Tigger on Fri 13 Sep 13 at 07:43
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>> www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/rdit2/internet-access---households-and-individuals/2013/stb-ia-2013.html
"•In Great Britain, 21 million households (83%) had Internet access in 2013"
Pointing out the obvious, that means that 17% of households don't have internet access. 17% is hardly a trifling amount. Without a postal service that 17% would be even more isolated than what they are now.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 13 Sep 13 at 09:09
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"Without a postal service that 17% would be even more isolated than what they are now."
Nobody is going to close down the postal system. In fact the terms of the privatisation insist on the continuation of daily deliveries at a flat rate anywhere in the UK. However things change and I don't see that being viable in five years time - certainly not ten. We will eventually end up with something like a weekly delivery.
The number of people without internet access will continue to decrease not least because it mainly consists of the elderly. The internet will inevitably become the standard way of delivering written time sensitive information to individuals as well as companies. It already is for many people.
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>> The internet will inevitably become the standard way of delivering
>> written time sensitive information to individuals as well as companies. It already is for
>> many people.
>>
Totally agree, but some surprising processes are at the moment heavily dependent on snail mail.
Miss C is just about to start a postgrad teacher training course at university. She has had to post/take 3 different forms, proof of ID (birth certificate, driving licence and counterpart etc) and copies of all her school and college certificates to the university, despite the fact that another UK university already had all that and had given her a degree at the end of her course
No copies or email verification were acceptable.
Personal letters may be disappearing but officialdom will still have their bits of paper crossing the country for a long time yet.
Last edited by: commerdriver on Fri 13 Sep 13 at 10:38
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>> What really jumped out to me was the rise in internet shopping. In 2013, 72%
>> of all adults bought goods or services online, up from 53% in 2008.
Ah but what is classed as "Internet Shopping"? Is "click and collect" for example?
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>> Nobody sends personal letters ..............
What about birthday cards and Christmas cards, and letters sent by pen pals?
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>> What about birthday cards and Christmas cards, and letters sent by pen pals?
>>
Don't send very many cards now. And even my father's pen pals are all online.
Last edited by: Tigger on Fri 13 Sep 13 at 07:52
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>> And even my father's pen pals are all online.
>>
A lot of it is down to age. Your father is possibly significantly younger than the friends/classmates of 'er indoors who have never used a computer.
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>> A lot of it is down to age. Your father is possibly significantly younger than
>> the friends/classmates of 'er indoors who have never used a computer.
>>
Late 70s. But he was the young one in the family so his sisters and penpals are mostly in their early to mid 80s.
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>> >> Nobody sends personal letters ..............
>>
>> What about birthday cards and Christmas cards, and letters sent by pen pals?
Pen pals? good lord man, have you not heard of Facebook?
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>> >> >> Nobody sends personal letters ..............
>> >>
>> >> What about birthday cards and Christmas cards, and letters sent by pen pals?
>>
>> Pen pals? good lord man, have you not heard of Facebook?
>>
It doesn't matter what I have, or haven't, heard of. I'm being sympathetic for the 17% of households who don't have a computer.
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they don't have pen pals either. Its a dying segment.
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>> Its a dying segment.
>>
It won't be long before you're in it as well.
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I have more time than you. Besides I have internet access.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 13 Sep 13 at 09:23
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"I have more time than you."
Probably but not necessarily.
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I still have internet access up till the the time I go tho.
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>> I still have internet access up till the the time I go tho.
>>
Not beyond? Made me think of the victorians who used bells for fear of being buried alive.
I have visions of burying people with their latest phone, connected to a heart rate and movement sensor?
We also need a way of ensuring a signal. Maybe there is a market for a headstone with a built in mobile wifi point and solar charger?
Perhaps it could also post to face book. "Still dead. Worms moving in now", etc.
Last edited by: Tigger on Fri 13 Sep 13 at 10:33
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There must be a lot of scope for RM to compete in the proper courier market.
They need more flexibility in the size of vans they send out.
They also need an official system for picking up parcels and bulk post, not just delivering.
Our postman is excellent. He will leave letters and parcels in the porch if there is no-one in, and probably unofficially picks up any letters and pre-paid parcels that need sending.
He also helps out with odd jobs. Once he helped my wife change a wheel because she was struggling with the jack. Last winter he borrowed a friend's landrover in order to get round.
He thoroughly deserves his tip.
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Ironically, there is in fact good environmental and customer service reasons to take "the last mile" into public ownership. The problem is there are too many delivery vans, doing to many inefficient duplicated journeys.
The RM is* ideally equipped to accept and distribute packets ad parcels over the last leg, and if stuff can not be delivered the customer does not have a 15 mile schlep to go and get the stuff.
*should i say was, they are doing away with the local facilities.
The Vendors, and Trunk carriers could collect, sort and deliver to the RM local distribution. Much more efficient, cost effective and environmentally beneficial. Its the same theory and delivery as electricity, gas and telecoms services.
Its the same with food deliveries. A multi branded local delivery wagon should be given an area to cover, and go collect from the vendor(s) and deliver to the customer. Its ideal fodder for electric vehicles.
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>>>there is in fact good environmental and customer service reasons to take "the last mile" into public ownership. The problem is there are too many delivery vans, doing to many inefficient duplicated journeys.
Fully agree, been saying the bit re parcel vans for years. I often have to be here for three different delivery drivers in a day... plus the postman.
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That's just how how it works around me; if I get a red card for a missed small parcel then I have to pick that up at the Sorting Office (0730 - 1200) whereas if I miss a large parcel (ParcelForce) then that goes to the local Post Office (0830 - 1700).
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Well it will take some kind of change (law?) by certain institutions, I've had to send off three letters this week to companies that will ONLY except written replies with my signature on, I tried sending emails but none of them were happy with this.
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>> Well it will take some kind of change (law?) by certain institutions, I've had to
>> send off three letters this week to companies that will ONLY except written replies with
>> my signature on, I tried sending emails but none of them were happy with this.
>>
Well, should things change they'll have to be happy with it, whether they like it or not. If HMRC are happy to to accept a ticked box instead of a signature so should other people.
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May be they should but they DON'T!, who's going to make them change? as has been said by other posters certain companies will only accept original documents, it's a PITA and has caused me lots of frustration in the past.
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If the day comes when original documents are either impossible or too inconvenient to send they'll either have to change or go out of business. You have to move with the times, like it or not.
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Royal Mail should get rid of everything except special delivery, which works very nicely.
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Even bills and statements no longer neccesarily come in the post. My gas and electric are on e-billing and my Santander bank & CC accounts are paperless too.
There's a problem looming there as a utility bill or bank statement is required as proof of address for various purposes. These include (motoring link) registration of new vehicle or making up of numberplates. Bills downloaded from internet are not accepted (though an emailed pdf presumably is).
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>>
>> There's a problem looming there as a utility bill or bank statement is required as
>> proof of address for various purposes.
Some organisations already seem to have immediate access to some kind of secure on-line database.
When I recently opened an on-line account at a building society I had never before had any dealings with, they confirmed my identity within seconds of sending the application.
Yet to open a second account with the Post Office Bank required me to take original documents to a PO to have my identity verified.
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>>There's a problem looming there as a utility bill or bank statement is required as proof of address for various purposes.
I made sure I had paper bank statements as I've only the one PC. That proved a life saver when it went TU.
Ever tried buying a new PC when you haven't got internet access?
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>> Ever tried buying a new PC when you haven't got internet access?
Put wallet in pocket, extract car keys from pocket and drive to PC world.
Peruse lines of PCs and Laptops.
Extract Credit card from Wallet
Place PC in boot of car
Drive home
Easy PC
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>> Easy PC
And probably a crap one too.
The choice in local CPCW last week was abysmal. Just ranks of 15.6" machines with a handful of different specs. A few netbooks and ultrathins and another display of Apple products.
Might be OK for you as you were in the IT trade and know your stuff. For rest of us it gave no concept of the sort of choice that's really available.
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They days of PC world selling "crap" pcs is long gone. You may have limited choice, and you may not get the best value, but you will get a respectable pc. It may be a distress purchase but i doubt you will seriously regret it.
I was in a home counties branch of CPCW, and if you wanted a laptop PC or slab for home there was a respectable choice, not outrageously priced.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 13 Sep 13 at 15:06
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>>
>> >> Ever tried buying a new PC when you haven't got internet access?
>>
>> Put wallet in pocket, extract car keys from pocket and drive to PC world.
>> Peruse lines of PCs and Laptops.
>> Extract Credit card from Wallet
>> Place PC in boot of car
>> Drive home
>>
>> Easy PC
>>
>>
And spend the rest of your life closing down nag screens for updates!
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>> And spend the rest of your life closing down nag screens for updates!
And where does that NOT apply for any consumer pc purchase?
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>>when you haven't got internet access?<<
At least if you are connected it gets updated and relieves you continual pressure!
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What the hell are you warbling on about.
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So you are a closet twitcher then!
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Retail park sheds are the only places I've ever bought a PC.
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John Lewis do PCs. Better bet surely than the PC World type hangars?
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Old people can't or won't use the internet or new technology. One set of grandparents are completely useless with anything more complex that a piece of paper and a pen. I've tried mobile phones and they won't go near the internet. I have aged trying to get them involved but it's hopeless. Many of their friends are the same though. At the other end of the spectrum is people of my age group who have no real memory of the pre-internet days. Over time the problem will solve itself as the older generation fall off life's conveyor belt. However when I'm old I expect technology will have moved on just as much, you can imagine the conversation in 2060 - "what, you used the internet to do shopping??? that's so old technology, Scotty comes down from Mars to do ours..."
I don't see the harm of keeping some services in Public ownership, not everything should be subjected to market forces.
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Old people can't or won't use the internet or new technology.
Very sweeping generalisation. My stepfather is a definite silver surfer* although try as I might, I can't get my mum to do much, although I did get one text from her.
*I'd say in ones 80s counts for this definition.
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>> Old people can't or won't use the internet or new technology.
>>
>> Very sweeping generalisation. My stepfather is a definite silver surfer* although try as I might,
>> I can't get my mum to do much, although I did get one text from
>> her.
>>
>> *I'd say in ones 80s counts for this definition.
There is a significant proportion though.
Some won't but in other cases they could use IT but need a lot of support.
My Mother is 87 and sharp as a tack bit her body lags behind her brain; she struggles to get about on a walking frame. She'd actually get a huge amount of stimulation from being able to exchange messages with all and sundry from school friends to grandchildren or explore the Leeds of her childhood via Leodis etc.
Unfortunately she lacks the tolerance/patience she'd need to learn to use a PC and my sister and I lack the time to provide the relevant support and instruction.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 16 Sep 13 at 21:48
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The elderly are always left behind by the latest technology, from reading and writing through to the telephone and now computing. It's just how it is and should we live long enough it will effect all of us at some stage or other. Like previous generations of crinklies we'll get by though.
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>> >> Old people can't or won't use the internet or new technology.
>> >>
>> >> Very sweeping generalisation. My stepfather is a definite silver surfer* although try as I
>> might,
>> >> I can't get my mum to do much, although I did get one text
>> from
>> >> her.
>> >>
>> >> *I'd say in ones 80s counts for this definition.
>>
>> There is a significant proportion though.
Its significantly declining proportion, In 10 years there wont be any proportion. The pace of life cant be slowed to the slowest 5% - we wouldn't progress anywhere.
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>> Old people can't or won't use the internet or new technology.
>>
¡OYE!
I was born in 1935 and I not only use the internet, but am quite capable of carrying out pretty well most ordinary computer operations (in Windows) apart from programming!
I even flirt with Linux from time to time!
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My father was always bombarding me with new technological gadgets right up to his death aged 87. It was hard to keep up with him. All very well for him, being retired with plenty of time for his hobbies. There's no point in learning stuff that's going to become out of date soon anyway, especially if you have any 13-year olds on hand to do it for you.
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Post Office privatisation - Tigger
