Seems to be going through the roof at the moment. Tesco want £295 for my 9yo Lakeland Terrier cross..
That's more than my own car insurance. Mind you he does more smiles per gallon and his 0-60 isn't far behind the 330!
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Think yourself lucky, I married a vet and she costs a darn sight more than £295 per year.
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Yes but you get fringe benefits!
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Pet Insurance would still have been cheaper. In fact, paying for a bloomin' vet retail would have been cheaper.
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When they get to 9 or 10 years old, the insurers dont want them so try to price you off. I got quotes of 600 quid + for a 11 year old lab.
Pet insurance has hugely inflated the prices vets charge and in turn inflates pet insurance charges. Vicious circle.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 31 Jul 13 at 17:47
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1st dog - no insurance and she cost a lot!
2nd dog - took out insurance and anything that went wrong was usually not covered!or only partial cover that ended after 12 months.
Best to save up a "doggy fund" and self-insure.
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It's insurance that's not insurance really, and collectively pet owners would have been a lot better off without it.
It's virtually certain you'll claim, so it just becomes an advance payment scheme albeit based on risk averages.
When we had a cat 30 odd years ago pet insurance was unknown, to me anyway, and the vet was cheap enough not to have to worry about it. Mind you, they were less likely to suggest a transplant when the customers were paying.
Pets now get treatment to prolong their lives that people don't get.
The lady next door is a vet, though not conspicuously rich. But all her customers are farmers.
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Farmers wont pay large vets bills or insurance, as soon as the animal starts to cost money its the glue factory. No money in being a farm vet.
Pets and Equine, thats another matter.
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I was talking to some friends last week, and the lady of the house is a vet. I kept my opinions to myself, but I can see where the prices come from. She was talking about all sorts of things that I had no idea they do on animals those days, including cancer care, palliative care and cardiology.
I'm sure when I was young if your animal was ill you metaphorically (or perhaps literally!) chucked it in a bucket and got another one.
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I only ever insure against financial catastrophe, ie the house and contents, the car or medical bills if I go abroad. Everything else, phone, pets, bikes etc most people will probably pay out more in premiums than they'll ever claim. Logical really or the insurers would go bust.
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>> I only ever insure against financial catastrophe, ie the house and contents, the car or
>> medical bills if I go abroad.
Ezzackly. That's insurance.
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Absolutely correct but with the proviso that the poorer you are the smaller is the amount that would be financial catastrophe, so you have to decide for yourself where that amount lies .
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...and it would be ironic if the consequence of pet insurance is that poorer people can neither afford pet insurance nor vet's charges.
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My 13 year old R/Ridgeabck is like your Lakeland Terror X - a hardy breed.
Milo has never bin insured and, he's hardly ever bin to the vets either.
Last time e'e went was about, eh, 5 years ago, I bung him a Drontal XL Plus now and again, but that's about it.
Now if ya'll had a Vauxhall Cavalier Spaniel or a black flat-coated Retriever, you'd always have your hand in your pocket.
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High costs may be linked to a similar arrangement (racket?) that exists with car insurers. Ask the price for a collision repair at a body shop and the price if you say you are claiming on insurance is higher than if you are not. Insurers do not want to be told if you report the difference. I suppose they can always get their money back by increasing premiums for the insured, or maybe all of their customers. (If that is not the reason for their indifference, what might be?)
Our cat is not insured but this was the first question asked when he had to be admitted to a hospital in an emergency. The receptionist gave the strong impression that treatments would have cost more with insurance.
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I spoke with a vet friend a little while ago, and he told me the whole business is changing.
Many practices have been bought out by a large company, and the vets replaced with cheaper young vets. Many of the practices now don't do any operations, with all big jobs being sent to specialist centres owned by the same company, who can do a vast range of new and advanced procedures. This is all on the back of insurance companies paying for these treatments, of course. As the surgery bills have gone up, the insurance cost has gone up, the number of people insuring has dropped, and this has led to a number of insurance companies pulling out of the market recently.
So a combination of expensive specialist procedures, and fewer insurers, has moved the prices up strongly.
As others have said, a few years ago, a 10 year old dog with bad hips was put down. But now there is a host of fancy treatments to eek out another year or so, and it all has to be paid for, but with less people putting money in the pot. A bit like the NHS really.
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>>Many practices have been bought out by a large company.
>>
A good friend of ours recently sold his practice to a large chain of vets (90+ branches when I checked).
The fees have certainly jumped up for a simple injection and a very simple once over.
p.s. How do they work out a premium on our ancient tortoise ( estimated to be 80+ )
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>>p.s. How do they work out a premium on our ancient tortoise ( estimated to be 80+ )
You're confusing two things;
They work out the premium by working out the maximum their target market will pay.
They work out their costs by using a variety of data.
The two are unrelated beyond the insurer working out whether they can live with the difference or not.
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Henry is a Cocker Spaniel aged two. He was diagnosed with Epilepsy last September and so far the vet's bills have exceeded £500. His medication alone costs just over £60 per month. He is insured with John Lewis on a lifetime policy and I dread his renewal in October. The current cost is £288 per annum.
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This is gonna sound really callous, but you cant fault the logic.
Your medical bills and insurance bills are pushing 1500 quid a year. The dog is only two years old and is going to have have cost you 15k if it makes 10. Thats silly money, Sorry I would have it put down now before I got got really attached to it over a number of years.
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>> This is gonna sound really callous, but you cant fault the logic.
>>
>> Your medical bills and insurance bills are pushing 1500 quid a year. The dog is
>> only two years old and is going to have have cost you 15k if it
>> makes 10. Thats silly money, Sorry I would have it put down now before I
>> got got really attached to it over a number of years.
I'm quite shocked at your response to this. Clearly, your dog doesn't mean that much to you, and says a lot about you.
Had you understood my post better you should have realised that the insurance company is paying my vet's bills and it only costs me my insurance premium.
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I think Zero is correct.
That doesn't mean I could bring myself to do it, but he is correct.
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"Had you understood my post better you should have realised that the insurance company is paying my vet's bills and it only costs me my insurance premium."
I regret to say it but those insurance premiums are going to end up at least equalling the cost of treatment.
As Zero said it may sound callous but every pet owner has to decide where to draw the line as regards vets bills. Our ageing cat has lost weight over the past year. I paid for a few tests and that ending up costing me £250. They offered me more test which could run into 4 figures. I declined. It doesn't mean I don't care for the animal, it's just that you have to make a rational decision, cost versus benefit to myself and the animal.
The NHS makes these judgements all the times regards our treatment. It's the same with our animals.
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>> I'm quite shocked at your response to this. Clearly, your dog doesn't mean that much
>> to you, and says a lot about you.
clearly you know nothing about me, I am currently keeping an elderly dog that is suffering from doggy dementia and starting to get mobility problems, and I am building up the balls up to do the right thing for the dog at the right time. As soon as its no longer clean around the house its getting the chop. The dog, being naturally uber clean, would want it no other way.
The money spent in keeping a dog alive with reduced quality of life could be be better spent rescuing another dog with a better quality of life.
Yes sorry my mistake. 10 x 280 = 2,800 + 10 x 720 = 7200 = 10 grand.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 1 Aug 13 at 15:54
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>> >> I'm quite shocked at your response to this. Clearly, your dog doesn't mean that
>> much
>> >> to you, and says a lot about you.
>>
>> clearly you know nothing about me,
Looking at many of your posts they say a lot about you.
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Yeah well at least I wasn't a cruel git who kept a demented, blind, deaf and doubly incontinent dog alive for two year longer than i should have.
And you call yourself a dog lover you selfish raging hypocrite.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 1 Aug 13 at 17:53
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oh this is going to go well................
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>> Yeah well at least I wasn't a cruel git who kept a demented, blind, deaf
>> and doubly incontinent dog alive for two year longer than i should have.
>>
>>
>> And you call yourself a dog lover you selfish raging hypocrite.
You know nothing about me and my elderly dog, but your response says a lot about you, you nasty piece of work.
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Truth hurts huh? Lets hope this dog doesn't suffer to pander to your selfishness.
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Too far Zero, and below the belt. You don't need to nuke someone just because you can. And you know yourself how difficult these decisions can be.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 1 Aug 13 at 18:33
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Yeah and I don't need some pillock slagging me off when I am facing up that choice.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 1 Aug 13 at 18:39
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As FM2R says, too far. Why do you always have to go over the top? I guess you don't care what others think but its a shame you act like this.
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Was it in anyway untruthful?
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It was unnecessary, spiteful and and demeaning of yourself.
It's only an internet forum for Christ's sake.
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I'll take that as a no then.
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Again...
>>You don't need to nuke someone just because you can.
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yes mum, I promise not to nuke anyone again.
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Now, don't be silly. [slap] Just choose your targets better.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 1 Aug 13 at 19:41
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O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
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The truth isn't usually simple.
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Wot we need is a moderator who doesn't spend all his time vindictively and recklessly trying to mess up people's computers and has time left over to actually read stuff.
[Normal Service, Dave! Its been resumed!!]
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>> Wot we need is a moderator who doesn't spend all his time vindictively and recklessly
>> trying to mess up people's computers and has time left over to actually read stuff.
>>
>> [Normal Service, Dave! Its been resumed!!]
>>
>>
You don't need to nuke someone just because you can.
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Sometimes you just do need to. (not you, you never do, but its ok if I do).
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 1 Aug 13 at 20:36
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>> Wot we need is a moderator .....
No need when we have you to hand out the anti nuclear tablets.
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>>No need when we have you to hand out the anti nuclear tablets.
Well I've got to do something to do now you've taken over my role of p.issin people off.
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Tell you what though, it attracted very few Green Thumbs and !no! scowly faces.
So who isn't here at the moment?
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Probably the ones who clicked on the link ;)
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>> Well I've got to do something to do now
those were the days, when you were somebody when people used to look up to you, the power of it all.
now you are just a pleb like the rest of us.
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>> Now if ya'll had a Vauxhall Cavalier Spaniel ... you'd always
>> have your hand in your pocket.
Tell us about it! Although since he had his dangly bits removed his running costs do appear to have settled down. We were going to keep him intact, but when we looked through his voluminous vets notes, most of his issues problems seemed undercarriage-related. His (fantastic) character hasn't changed, and we probably should have done it earlier; I think he was 4 when done, now 6.
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Lovely looking dog Focus-less, a lot of their problems stem from inbreeding, I hear, like so many other
pedigree dogs.
Neighb in Bexhill had a 'King Charles', always at the vets for something or other ISTR.
When I go about choosing a car, reliability always comes first, I'm the same with dogs :)
The black flat-coated Retriever I mentioned earlier appealed to me as an ideal breed of dog (for us) but when I checked out the potential health problems, I wouldn't touch one with a Roach pole.
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There are pedigree dogs and Pedigree dogs. Dogs bred for working and active sports (still bred from pedigree lines) tend to suffer less from congenital issues than those bred for showing.
There are however crossovers
The German Shepard is a case in point, now a virtually useless breed in the UK, because of the work of one breeder and senior member of the Kennel Club.
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A big part of the problem is that anyone can put a dog and a bitch together then advertise the litter in the local rag.
Wifeys work colleague went all the way to Southampton recently for a Yorkie, it spent more time with the vet than it did with her, before turning its toes up within about 1 month of buying the poor critter.
Of course, the 'breeder' didn't want to know. She's got another one now, and all's well.
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>>The German Shepard is a case in point, now a virtually useless breed in the UK, because of
>>the work of one breeder and senior member of the Kennel Club.
What was that, then?
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What did the Breeder and the Kennel Club [spit] do?
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Ah right.
The kennel club breed standard for the German Shepard included the description.
Overall strong, broad and well muscled, enabling effortless forward propulsion. Upper and lower thigh are approximately of equal length. Hind angulation sufficient if imaginary line dropped from point of buttocks cuts through lower thigh just in front of hock, continuing down slightly in front of hindfeet.
and
The topline runs without any visible break from the set on of the neck, over the well defined withers, falling away slightly in a straight line to the gently sloping croup.
To you and I that means it looks like the back is squatting down. One Kennel club judge then decided that those that squatted down more would be marked higher, and funnily enough he bred Shepard's exactly like that. The only way to achieve that look was to breed in a skeletal problem called "Hip Dysplacia" He became a member of the breed standard panel and bullied other members into preventing a change of the standard because it would harm his interests.
It became so bad the breed standard panel was disbanded and the standard had the following items added.
Any tendency towards over-angulation of hindquarters, weak hocks, cow hocks or sickle hooks, is to be heavily penalised as this reduces firmness and endurance in movement.
The kennel club holds its hand up in glee and says "See look what we have done to improve the breed"
Guess who they still allow to judge?
Breed standards are still producing pugs that cant breath, King Charles with skulls to small for the brain. Breed shows should all be closed down, all Breed standards should be reviewed with primary emphasis on health, temperament and mobility and breed shows not started till the blood stock is improved to meet the new standards. Wont happen because the KC is composed entirely of show breeders.
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The KC should be nuked out of existence for so many reasons; sanctimonious superiority is just one.
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Famous BBC documentary including an expose of this - lot of fuss at the time. IIRC it led to Crufts being dropped from BBC schedules? (since picked up by another channel?)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jROjFPAis
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>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jROjFPAis
For Z's Alsation issues ffwd to 6:50.
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This is a nice picture of a dog, its not real though, it's made of china :)
s969.photobucket.com/user/focushj/media/07112010028.jpg.html
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I'm now thinking along the lines of self insurance. Much as I like my Lakeland (who lives with my old Mum and adores her) if anything serious was to happen to him then it would be good night Vienna time. This might sound callous but he has had 9 good years, and hopefully more to follow.
My last dog, a Westie who called it a day at 15, was a one off. I made the heartbreaking decision to terminate his life and was upset for weeks. But the life quality was gone. I only wish someone can do the same for me.
A relation has (had) 3 King Charles Spaniels. Now down to 2. Nothing but problems. The remaining 2 can barely walk, are incredibly obese, have diabetes requiring injections every 12 hours, and would be gone in 60 seconds if it was up to me. Replaced by two rescue dogs that needed a bit of good fortune. Callous. Maybe. But I can live with it. And I often prefer dogs to humans.
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>> And I often prefer dogs to humans
Tehe! - where's Catwoman this morning :)
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I'm here!...and I frequently prefer any animal to humans.
Pat
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Pet insurance - No FM2R
