Non-motoring > Night flying	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Focusless	Replies: 29

New Wed 17 Jul 13 21:22   Night flying - Focusless

Living not far from Heathrow, I was under the impression planes stopped coming over some time late (12?) at night then started again early in the morning (6?). However, our flight back from Gran Canaria on Sunday was scheduled to land at 0405. Is Manchester subject to less stringent controls, or am I just sleeping through the Heathrow flights at similar times? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 17 Jul 13 22:00   Night flying - Alastairw

Afaik Manchester does not have a curfew, certainly not as strict as Heathrow's. Take off is usually over Knutsford, which can only be a good thing, IMO. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 17 Jul 13 22:29   Night flying - Focusless

Thanks Alastairw, and well done for spotting that I missed out a couple of important words in the OP - "...flight back from Gran Canaria to Manchester on Sunday...". BTW the M6 is nice and quiet at 5am on a Sunday morning :) Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 17 Jul 13 22:46   Night flying - RattleandSmoke

Why you flying to Manchester? Was it cheaper? Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 07:55   Night flying - Focusless

>> Why you flying to Manchester? Was it cheaper? Didn't have a choice for the holiday we wanted. I think the parking was a bit cheaper than it would have been at Gatwick/Heathrow, £38 for 7.5 days (APH), but obviously that was outweighed by the extra petrol needed to get there/back. We'd use it again if we had to. Had plenty of time to explore the departures lounge on the outward leg - plane delayed by about 3 hours, taking off at 9pm instead of 6. Checked into hotel just after 3am - the promised welcoming glass of bubbly didn't materialise, but they did leave some bottles in the restaurant at breakfast so we could help ourselves :) Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 17 Jul 13 23:02   Night flying - crocks

>>Is Manchester subject to less stringent controls, or am I just sleeping through the Heathrow flights at similar times? Looks like you are sleeping through it. From the Wiki Heathrow page -en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Heathrow_Airport "Night-time flights at Heathrow are subject to restrictions. Between 23:00 and 07:00, the noisiest aircraft (rated QC/8 and QC/16) cannot be scheduled for operation. In addition, during the night quota period (23:30–06:00) there are four limits: A limit on the number of flights allowed; A quota count system which limits the total amount of noise permitted, but allows operators to choose to operate fewer noisy aircraft or a greater number of quieter planes;[27] QC/4 aircraft cannot be scheduled for operation. A voluntary agreement with the airlines that no early morning arrivals will be scheduled to land before 04:30" Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 06:03   Night flying - zookeeper

www.heathrowairport.com/static/Heathrow_Noise/Downloads/PDF/operation-noise-benchmarking-draft-final-report_case-studies_LHR.pdf Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 13:11   Night flying - Fursty Ferret

No curfew at Manchester. The noise restrictions at Heathrow are designed to prevent antique and exceptionally noisy aircraft like a 707 or similar flying in or out - anything else, up to and including a 747/A380 is fine. Each airline at Heathrow has an allocation of night slots which they can use as they wish. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 13:20   Night flying - Focusless

Thanks for the info chaps. Nice holiday - shame we had to come back to miserable wet old UK. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 13:25   Night flying - Dog

Where abouts did you stay, Focus less - Playa del Inglés or Puerto Rico? Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 15:35   Night flying - Focusless

>> Where abouts did you stay, Focus less - Playa del Inglés or Puerto Rico? We did take the hotel bus to Playa del Inglés once - the bit we saw looked a bit too touristy and not as nice as our area in San Agustin. Only stopped briefly in Puerto Rico as part of a half day coach trip Puerto de Mogan. Didn't do much exploring to be honest - we were all inclusive, so obviously it's more important to get your money's worth of food/drink from the hotel :) EDIT: sorry, bit too much info there... Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 18 Jul 13 at 15:38 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 15:39   Night flying - Focusless

>> EDIT: sorry, bit too much info there... Try this: goo.gl/maps/qdtvp Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 16:53   Night flying - Dog

>>EDIT: sorry, bit too much info there...Try this: goo.gl/maps/qdtvp Ah yes, I remember it now, I dare say all the Canary Islands have changed somewhat since we were last there ... 16 years ago :) Good thing (IMO) about Puerto Rico is that the sun sets over that side of the island, and you can seeMount Teide in Tenerife, on a clear day. Maspalomas is something else, if you like sand dunes but, it's best to carry a cudgel if y'all go there alone. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 13:22   Night flying - Bromptonaut

>> The noise restrictions at Heathrow are designed to prevent antique and exceptionally noisy aircraft like >> a 707 or similar flying in or out - anything else, up to and including >> a 747/A380 is fine. >> The noise issue years ago was largely about take offs. The roar/crackle of a turbojet or low bypass fan engine passing overhead was deafening to point of causing pain. The early 'Classic' 747 had a noise like a buzz saw as it came towards you, whether with P&W or Rolls engines, but then faded to a whooshing sound as it crossed overhead. Today's machines are near silent by time they cross the aerodrome boundary, though the buzz is still occasionally present. Landing on the other hand still makes a racket once the gear and flaps are in play. Not just the engines but airframe noise too. Low drag approaches have moved the noise westward from Central London (cp the seventies) but the western 'burbs still cop it big time. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 18 Jul 13 at 13:27 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 13:55   Night flying - CGNorwich

Aerodrome? Not been used since Croydon was London's airport. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 14:24   Night flying - Number_Cruncher

>>a noise like a buzz saw It is sometimes called buzz saw noise by acousticians. It happens when the tips of the fan blades go faster then the local speed of sound, and the normal small amplitude approximations of acoustics are no longer applicable. It still happens with modern engines, particularly so with larger fans. The extreme acoustic pressures in this region cause local damage to the engine lining ducts, and the acoustic treatments in the lining tend to fail via acoustic fatigue. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 14:48   Night flying - Fursty Ferret

>> >>a noise like a buzz saw >> >> It is sometimes called buzz saw noise by acousticians. >> >> It happens when the tips of the fan blades go faster then the local speed >> of sound, and the normal small amplitude approximations of acoustics are no longer applicable. It >> still happens with modern engines, particularly so with larger fans. The extreme acoustic pressures in >> this region cause local damage to the engine lining ducts, and the acoustic treatments in >> the lining tend to fail via acoustic fatigue. >> >> Interesting. I always assumed the damage to the acoustic lining is caused by the tips of the fan blades and debris sucked through the engine, not purely acoustic pressure. Will have a closer look today. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 15:07   Night flying - Number_Cruncher

>>Will have a closer look today. Yes, obvious damage from debris getting between the fan tips and the liner will produce a failure of the perforated sheet AND the honeycomb inside, wheras acoustic damage will cause the hexagonal walls of the honeycomb to break internally without there necessarily being any obvious damage to the perforated sheet. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 14:51   Night flying - helicopter

I was on my way to Dubai from Heathrow a couple of years back and we followed Concorde out ....... the Olympus engines were pretty noisy but what an awesome sight..... have a listen www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-xMOOEngJw ..... Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Jul 13 15:33   Night flying - TeeCee

Some years ago I was queueing on the A4 for the A312 roundabout on a summer's evening in the MGB roadster with the top down. There was a sound like the end of the world in Dolby 5.1 overhead. I looked up and Concorde went over on final into LHR. The interesting bit was that, once it reached the point where it was well in front and I was looking through the windscreen at the business end of four Olympus engines, the ground effect from the ogee wings hit. Flattened me into the seat that did. Not the loudest "aircraft overhead" noise. That was the Battle of Britain flight going into Northolt while I was sat at the lights in South Ruislip (also with the roof down). They can't have been an inch over 500' and a shedload of Merlins all going like the clappers at once is a fearsome racket at that distance. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Jul 13 08:35   Night flying - helicopter

I go to Farnborough on business and there have been some pretty noisy aircraft , the Eurofighter sticks in the mind ...... but best memories are from the seventies taking my nephew round at Biggin Hill and watching the Lightning taking off...... check it out .....fabulous sight ..... rate of climb is amazing... www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CDLbokf9sg Last edited by: helicopter on Fri 19 Jul 13 at 08:38 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Jul 13 08:40   Night flying - Dog

I often hear (rather than see) the Eurofighter screaming across the sky here from RAF St Mawgan - terrifying! Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Jul 13 09:05   Night flying - borasport

Saw one a Lightning do that many years ago at the Woodford (BAE) air show and it was utterly stunning, even asa young kid. I can't remember the noise, but I can remember the sensation of the noise. Sadly Woodford is sold for development and will only be known to most people for the images of the Nimrods being torn apart Last edited by: borasport on Fri 19 Jul 13 at 09:05 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Jul 13 09:45   Night flying - CGNorwich

"rate of climb is amazing..." and the rate of descent! www.eyemead.com/noise-1a.jpg. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Jul 13 09:57   Night flying - CGNorwich

www.aviationclassics.co.uk/news/issue-5-english-electric-lightning-eject-eject Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Jul 13 12:00   Night flying - helicopter

What goes up must come down...CG Lucky escape for the pilot there...... I do a lot of business with ejector seat manufacturer Martin Baker and have visited their factory and seen the care and attention that goes into the production , it is a mightily impressive operation and a lot of pilots owe their lives to their expertise.....sometimes more than once.... One story I was told of by them about a pilot who ejected underwater after he missed an aircraft carrier , was rescued and taken to hospital where the medical staff discovered a brain tumour which would have killed him if not discovered...... Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Jul 13 12:18   Night flying - Zero

>> Low drag approaches have moved the noise westward from Central London (cp the seventies) but >> the western 'burbs still cop it big time. Living in the "Western burbs" since 1970, its never been quieter. I miss the daily Concorde flights. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Jul 13 19:04   Night flying - AnotherJohnH

Not much to add, except it is amazing what noise people can get used to: last night I stopped near the middle of Stockport and was a bit dismayed to read that Manchester Airport does run 24 hours - "as it has for over 60 years", and was underwhelmed when the link to "night noise policy" came up "page not found" from this page: www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/Content/communityoperations Such professionalism. Earlier in the evening I visited the site of the 4 June 1967 crash (Hopes Carr/Waterloo Road) which was only a few hundred metres from the hotel... which didn't really help me sleep at all. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Jul 13 20:04   Night flying - mikeyb

A few years back I got stacked coming into heathrow as it was to early to land. We were on a 777 and IIRC it was just before 6am Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Jul 13 21:05   Night flying - borasport

As a very young boy, I flew on that aircraft the year before.. Reply to this message | Report message