Agreed. I get really narked with people who take or make phone calls or read/send emails in the middle of business meetings or in restaurants too. I always turn mine off in those circumstances. It's just rude not to. I despise that behaviour almost as much as that of those who don't hold the button in when applying their handbrakes. Should be some punishment in law for that. Noise pollution or something should cover it.
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>> I despise that behaviour almost as much as that of those who don't hold the button in when applying their handbrakes.
Och awa wi ye you timorous auld wifie...
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Standards dear boy, standards...Have you quite forgotten?
:-)
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>> Me too
Not me. The customer (by her own account) was courteous. The assistant made her own amendment to company policy, imposed it on the customer and was pert and offhand in saying 'You learn something new every day.'
Cheek really. She'll either get fired soon or be promoted.
It's a highly uninteresting news item though. A tiny kerfuffle in a carrier bag. What we want is child abuse and axe murders. Surely the media can dredge something up to oblige? The heart has gone out of them if you ask me.
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You're a handbrake abuser too though aren't you AC? Figures...
:-)
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"Sainsbury's has apologised to a customer who was refused service by a checkout worker until she had ended her mobile phone call. "
I at first read that as meaning that the cashier was on the phone. That's not unknown either.
I can't see that it's any business of the cashier what customers are doing to while away the time they are waiting. Sometimes I read the newspaper I have not yet paid for.
It's not as if a busy supermarket is a place of silence. I'd like to get them to turn their music off before I am served, but I wouldn't raise a complaint about it if they refused.
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>> Cheek really.
She had a right to be cheeky when presented with such rudeness to start with.
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Do mean to say you pull out the hand-release while you push down your LEC's parking brake pedal, Humph? I'm learning to release mine quietly but even I haven't gone that far.
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The customer was extremely rude and discourteous to carry on with the phone call while dealing with the checkout. I'd ban her from the store. Typically she complained, and thats probably all she is capable of doing. Silly cow. Hope she got a parking ticket.
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>> had a right to be cheeky when presented with such rudeness to start with.
That would depend on whether there actually was any rudeness. It isn't rude to be talking on the phone when you reach the front of the queue. The customer said she ended her conversation quickly. Where's the rudeness?
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>> The customer said
>> she ended her conversation quickly. Where's the rudeness?
>>
She didn't end it quickly enough, i.e. before she got to the front of the queue. It wouldn't be that difficult for her to judge.
She'll be amongst her own shopping in Waitrose now, and paying through the nose for it too. Nose, face, spite. Ha.
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>> She didn't end it quickly enough, i.e. before she got to the front of the queue.
What nonsense Alanović. The checkout girl is there to tot up the bill and take the money. She has no reason to demand the punter's full attention while doing that. If the punter carries on rabbiting down the phone when the assistant has finished and is waiting for the money, then she's being rude.
The worst supermarket offences are bovine obstruction of aisles and timewasting at the checkout with handbags, purses, loyalty and other cards and money-off chits. Often too (round here) there's a bit of social conversation with the checkout girl before you eventually get your turn. They're all goddam yokels to me. Even in London people faff and get in the way at the checkout. It's bad for a chap's blood pressure.
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>> What nonsense Alanović. The checkout girl is there to tot up the bill and take
>> the money. She has no reason to demand the punter's full attention while doing that.
>> If the punter carries on rabbiting down the phone when the assistant has finished and
>> is waiting for the money, then she's being rude.
Nah, you're wrong there AC..a bit of common courtesy hurts no one. Anything other than that shows a lack of respect...and reflects badly on the individual and how they were dragged up like.
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>> a bit of common courtesy hurts no one. Anything other than that shows a lack of respect.
Couldn't agree more. I just don't see the need to fix the poor checkout girl with the full glare of your steely smile while she's running the crap past the beeper and shoving it towards you to stuff in carrier bags. It is after all primarily a commercial transaction, the social aspect limited as a rule to mere brisk courtesies. There are others in the queue.
I think I manage all right. I doubt if the local checkout people think me rude.
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>> What nonsense Alanović.
Manners maketh man, AC. I'm happy living by that, don't care who thinks it's nonsense.
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Surely Alanović you don't think I am saying politeness is nonsense? I was just suggesting there was no need to give full social attention, the beady stare, to someone who is actually working and thinking about your groceries, not you. I wasn't suggesting you should snatch the change and walk away scowling without saying thanks (the way some do actually).
Some checkout people welcome a bit of badinage or conversation, but a majority don't really. They are all different. And you are in different moods too, more or less preoccupied, sometimes even on the phone perhaps for good reason. If you know how to behave, none of that makes any difficulty. There's no need to be uptight and have exaggerated rules of respect. That seems a bit weird to me.
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Clearly we have a different approach to this, as with many other things (although I suspect we'd get on famously over a pint). I spent a lot of my formative years "serving" (restaurants, supermarkets, pubs etc) and couldn't abide people treating me as if I wasn't there.
So I now treat others how I would wish to be treated. If I'm overly polite by your or anyone else's standards, then at least I'm secure in the knowledge that I am very unlikely to be taken as rude. Which is one area of life where I am concerned what other people, including strangers, think of me.
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>> treat others how I would wish to be treated.
Yes, that's clear. One can only agree.
On the serving professions: not everyone is cut out to be a waiter, barman or barmaid, or a restaurateur come to that. I've seen quite staggering offensiveness from waiters and restaurant managers in France, but also in Italy. Tourist areas and touristy rip-off places are the worst of course. Looking at the tourists you can't blame the staff entirely, but if you can't stand the heat...
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>> >> It isn't rude to be
>> talking on the phone when you reach the front of the queue. The customer said
>> she ended her conversation quickly. Where's the rudeness?
>>
>>
Exactly. It's not a personal interaction until the point when you pay.
You can't be rude to a conveyor belt.
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I think it is exceptionally rude to pay for something in a shop and throughout the whole procedure be yapping away on a phone.
It is a gross lack of manners and disrespectful to the person serving you.
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>> I think it is exceptionally rude to pay for something in a shop and throughout
>> the whole procedure be yapping away on a phone.
>>
"The customer, Jo Clarke, was told her shopping would not be processed until she had finished talking on her phone. "
She wasn't at the paying stage, she was about to have her shopping processed.
There is no personal interaction at that stage. Have you ever been to a supermarket?
You load your stuff on at one end of the conveyor belt, and the cashier processes it at the other. The cashier is about 6 feet away. You follow your food along the belt, pushing the trolley in front of you, but you cannot move right to the end by the cashier because the previous customer is still fussing about loading bags etc.
When you reach the cashier, your food has been processed and you smile at the cashier, pay, and say thank you. That's all there is to it. It isn't necessary to say anything. It works the same way in countries speaking a totally different language you can't understand a word of.
It is hardly possible to be rude in such circumstances - it's an impersonal transaction. It's not like having your pot of caviar gift wrapped in Harrods.
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Me neither.
It was not a company policy.
You can go to self checkout with a phone stuck in your ear.
Supermarkets are trying to project that self checkout is same as manned checkout. It is not the case that you have to speak with checkout clerk. Those who think this rude, are probably comparing with old days when people used to chat with checkout clerks. Nowadays it is very mechanical process and supermarkets are replacing humans with machines. So can't blame customers for treating checkout clerks like machines.
Sometimes the queues in tills are too long. It is not usual for customers to start a conversation with someone while still far away from checkout. Personally if I'm on call and my turn comes at checkout, I ask other party to hold on for few moments while I'm packing it and then continue the conversation once I'm done. If I just cut the call off, it will be rude to other party.
IMHO, I really can't understand why this is a big news!
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>> Those who think this
>> rude, are probably comparing with old days when people used to chat with checkout clerks.
>> Nowadays it is very mechanical process and supermarkets are replacing humans with machines. So can't
>> blame customers for treating checkout clerks like machines.
If someone can't tell the difference between an auto check out till and a human being, and treat them accordingly, they probably shouldn't be out on community day release, let alone shopping somewhere that sells knives.
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>>
>> If someone can't tell the difference between an auto check out till and a human
>> being, .
>>
That's the Turing test for artificial intelligence.
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The customer obviously had very low standards.
I always turn my mobile off before I reach the checkout and pop it into the pocket on my pyjamas.
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In many schools in UK, the pupils
* throw pens/pencils etc. to teacher
* pass racist comments and swear words towards teacher
* play games in their phones, talk on phones etc. when teacher is trying to teach them
* draw obscene pictures on their exam sheets
... the list goes on.
Surprisingly, such actions are not considered "rude" by school authorities or ofsted.
The Ofsted rule says it is teachers' fault if pupils can't learn. But they take no step to discipline unruly pupils or make them behave properly.
Their behaviour goes unchecked and when they grow up they think it is ok to continue to same attitude with everyone.
Last edited by: movilogo on Wed 3 Jul 13 at 16:15
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>> Their behaviour goes unchecked and when they grow up they think it is ok to
>> continue to same attitude with everyone.
A process known as the normalisation of deviance.
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Just to flip this one around, what do you if you are talking to someone and your mobile rings?
I ignore it. After my conversation is over I'll see who it was and call back or not depending. The same applies if I'm talking to someone in my office and the desk phone rings.
This does not appear to be standard behaviour, but I find it intensely annoying if someone answers their phone when I'm talking to them, so don't do it to anyone else.
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Glad it's not just me, CC.
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>> Just to flip this one around, what do you if you are talking to someone
>> and your mobile rings?
>>
>>
Ignore it, unless it's an urgent call I'm expecting and then I excuse myself and tell the caller to wait a few minutes and I'll call back.
What I hate even more is when someone keeps reading and sending texts when I'm talking to them.
Last edited by: Robin Regal on Wed 3 Jul 13 at 16:42
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>> What I hate even more is when someone keeps reading and sending texts when I'm talking to them.
Met some teenagers and busy young mothers then RR?
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Quite right Crankcase. I remember an incident years ago ( well, it must have been after mobiles were commonplace but still a good while ago ) Anyway, I had gone with my then boss to interview a guy for a job. He was someone we knew who worked for a competitor so we had decided to keep it informal by meeting him in a pub after work for a preliminary chat about the job on offer.
The meeting started very well, we were interested in him and he was interested in us. However, his mobile rang and he did that "I must just take this" thing. My boss let him carry on but when he'd finished his call my boss took the chap's phone and put it straight in the guy's pint of beer.
Of course he was flabbergasted and didn't really know what to say but the boss filled in the gaps for him with something like the following. " We are interviewing you for a senior sales role, if you come to work for us, never, ever, do that to me again and certainly don't do it to a customer, now do you want the job or not?"
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Wed 3 Jul 13 at 16:46
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I suspect the cashier had had too many people using mobiles while trying to pay and was making a stand. I am on her side. Rudeness with mobiles is becomming endemic. Pity these phones can't be programed to be inoperable within 2 meters of other people.
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>>Rudeness with mobiles is becomming endemic
Only one Mmm in becoming - two more strikes and you're owt!
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I have been making that mistake since I was a kid, and now am hugely older. Should have read it. It does look funny.
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>> Pity these phones can't be programed to be inoperable within 2 meters of other
>> people.
>>
METRES.
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No need to shout, hearing aid on the fritz?
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"such actions are not considered "rude" by school authorities or ofsted."
Blimey ml
I only retired as a teacher a few years ago and they would have been considered as rude by me let alone school or Ofsted. If any phone appeared during a lesson at my school it was instantly "confiscated" and could only be recovered by pupil at end of school day after a confirmation call to parents. If it happened twice the parent had to collect phone and told pupil could not bring phone to school again - any urgent calls would be made via school.
As for other things - racist/swearing, throwing things at teacher/obscene pictures???? Which school is that? And which Ofsted inspector? It is not the role of an Ofsted inspector to discipline pupils - he's an observer - but any teacher whose class behaved like that would have received a very negative report and a "few words of advice"
By the way, I used to do Ofsted inspections, admittedly about 10 years ago now' but surely standards have not slipped so far since?? Or have they??
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>>The assistant made her own amendment to company policy, imposed it on the customer and
>>was pert and offhand in saying 'You learn something new every day.'
I agree with AC.
[just shoot me now].
The customer was seemingly rude and inconsiderate. However awful that is, the store still wanted her as a customer and now perhaps does not.
They have an internal HR process to handle employee's concerns.
I hate people taking or making a call or text in front of me. However, if I am paid to deal with them I will manage it.
Socially I'm all for dropping the phone in the beer / coffee / nearest river.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 3 Jul 13 at 17:28
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Results of a current online survey to date copied and pasted below...Pretty conclusive
A woman was refused service at Sainsbury's because she was on her mobile - is this fair?
Yes, it is bad manners
82%
No, I can use my phone when I want
7%
Maybe, what if it's an emergency?
11%
Total votes: 4400
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I hope someone parked in her mother and child bay.
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And if the question had been;
"Can a cashier refuse to serve anybody doing something she doesn't like irrespective of store policy, but then imply that it is store policy?"
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how about she considered loading up a conveyer and talking on a phone to be a health and safety hazard. It is company policy for everyone to create and maintain a safe working and customer environment.
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Slightly different I know, but I used to own a small chain of retail stores.
If, during a busy trading period there was a queue of customers waiting patiently to be served, a customer who 'had asked for advice and was receiving it' answered their mobile and began a conversation, my staff were under strict instructions to serve the next customer or customers. If they in turn wanted advice (it was a business where many customers asked for product information etc) then the customer who had answered their phone would just have to await their turn.
A few of my customers were just pig ignorant, and the old phrase ''prices subject to fluctuation dependent upon customers attitude'' came into play.
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1999 was a dark year in the world of mobile phones. That was when PAYG was introduced and the great unwashed jumped on the bandwagon and everyone got one. I was still playing snooker regularly at the time and overnight the gentle click of ball on ball was drowned by text message beeps, stupid ringtones and yobs yelling into the things at the top of their voices.
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I think we're breeding a nation of hunchbacks. Look around any busy street and you'll see a vast number of people walking around with their heads permanently bowed like supplicant monks worshipping their handsets.
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The cashier missed a trick, should have used the "I didn't want to interrupt your conversation" line.
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What can you expect of anyone so common as to shop at Sainsbury's. They have a dangling apostrophe.
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Asda don't care what you do at the check-out, they're only too happy that you've made the effort to pay at all !!
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Take it you go in the Fiesta? Sort of deep cover affair eh?
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Funny you should say that - you're absolutely right. :-)
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Customer is always right, unless they are behaving unreasonably.
Mrs Clarke was in my opinion ill mannered, but that is about 75% of people.
The checkout operator was never going to win that one - customers don't go in to be humiliated, even if they deserve it, and anybody whose wages depend on them should have the sense to give them what they want, within reason.
I'd fire the operator - or at least give them some 'coaching'.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 3 Jul 13 at 19:51
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I'm with the checkout operator as well - it's just rude IMO. However the most distressing thing for me is that the customer's response was that she's going to take her custom to Waitrose!! I don't want my local branch cluttered up with customers like that ;-)
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I have to admit that my contrary view to the prevalent one is based on what I know of this story, and perhaps to excess on the lady's own account retailed by the comic. It's possible that demeanour and mannerism provoked the checkout girl into pertness and offhand dismissive behaviour. You have to be there to have a chance of getting it right on something like this. We are just rabbiting here.
But: there's nothing intrinsically rude about being on the phone when you arrive at the checkout. Depends on why, what happens next, how you deal with it.
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>> I'm with the checkout operator as well - it's just rude IMO. However the most
>> distressing thing for me is that the customer's response was that she's going to take
>> her custom to Waitrose!! I don't want my local branch cluttered up with customers like
>> that ;-)
>>
Fair point! Not sure whats going on in my local branch but its getting busier and busier. Its fair to say that the newish lidl store 200 meters away has probably had a positive impact due to its poor service and desire to always ensure you have to wait a significant time to pay for anything. I and quite a few others value the Waitrose experience (and the free coffee)
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I find it hard to make my mind up on this. I have to say from what I've read I probably hate the customer if I met her in the real world. I think Sainsbury's ten pound offer says it all.
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Actually I agree with everything that has been said about the rudeness of people with mobile phones, except this instance. It's a very poor instance to try and make an example over.
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I cannot really imagine that a checkout girl wants to talk to me, or is interested in my world, anymore than I wish to talk to or know about her.
This one clearly needed to get over herself.
If it had been me rather than the ridiculous woman then there would have been a two differences;
An absolute storm would have been created there and then until a manager joined us and resolved the situation.
Media would not have been informed.
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Well much a I deride Asda - I have to say the check out staff are always pretty chatty when I go there, one of the few attractive features about the place.
I work with one as a volunteer - he has just finished his MA with a distinction so is probably better qualified than most of the punters he serves, although they'd never guess. Never judge a book by its cover eh ?
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Most respondents to the poll, who think the checkout operator was in the right, have missed the main points.
- You can't 'win' argument with a customer, and you certainly shouldn't start one.
- If you only want to deal with considerate people, or those you like, you have no place in a service industry.
- The customer is trying to hand over money that pays your wages. Your job is to take it and make sure the customer gets what they are entitled to in return.
None of that means that abuse, bullying, or assault should be acceptable, but that isn't relevant here.
I'm fairly sure her manager will be reading this employee her horoscope, and predicting that if she does it again it's the early bath. She will either have to start doing the job, or stop taking the wages.
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IMHO, the till operative should have said in a loud voice (enough so that the other person on the end of the phone could hear)
"Oh hello, glad you could pop by. We have the results of your recent herpes test. I'm afraid its positive"
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And ended up in court as well as the dole queue. Stunning idea.
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>> And ended up in court as well as the dole queue. Stunning idea.
Morning grumpy.
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I'm not sure that most people are necessarily agreeing she was right - I'm certainly not. They're saying that they find the customer's behaviour rude. Which, IMO, it was. As a customer I also find it irritating if the person in front is on their phone at the checkout, because invariably they are slower than a customer who's just getting on with the task in hand. Which is paying for their stuff quickly and getting out of my way ;-)
Interestingly there was a programme on London Buses on BBC4 the night before last, coming back to how the public treat those in service industries. Apparently almost no one even acknowledges the bus driver nowadays - they just swipe their Oyster card and walk past. A figure of less than 1% was mentioned for people saying anything to the driver at all. I find that a bit depressing really
Last edited by: PeterS on Thu 4 Jul 13 at 07:03
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>> Apparently almost no one even
>> acknowledges the bus driver nowadays - they just swipe their Oyster card and walk past.
Sounds like a London only thing. Out here in the untamed wilds of Readingshire, just about everyone thanks the bus driver as they get off. I can't remember the last time I saw someone get off a bus without doing so.
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"just about everyone thanks the bus driver as they get off."
Certainly, my wife and I always say thanks to the driver as we leave the bus and it is a common behaviour in rural Suffolk. Sadly, bus drivers tend to remain the grumpiest of all breeds.
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S'funny ya know, reading through (some of) this fred ... I don't live 'in the real' world, and haven't been near nor by a super market in nigh-on 15 years and, I don't use a mobile phone either come to that but, my ole woman says - good fer er (the checkout gal) and that the bint with the phone glued to her lughole, is ignorant.
:}
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"I fear the day that technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots".
~Albert Einstein.
It's here!
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Try ALDI's checkout - it's so quick you hardly have time to breath let alone chat!
OTH, the checkout ops. at our local ALDI are always pleasant, greet you and are happy to smile if you give them the courtesy of a friendly greeting first.
Checkout ops. of supermarkets in Spain are very often rude, unsmiling and yapping to their mates in the adjacent till. Their attitude is "I'm paid to take your money, not to interact with you ".
Only one shop, or group, has instilled customer service with a smile and an offer to be helpful - El Corte Ingles, the Spanish equivalent of John Lewis, I guess.
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Phones are only part of the checkout problem, the people who seem to be taken by surprise that they actually have to pay and start rummaging around for cash or cards at checkouts, parking machines, etc. at the last moment are a pain too. They often seem to be the ones who insist on paying with the exact amount of cash to add to the delay.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 4 Jul 13 at 08:34
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Little old ladies are the worst for that, ON!
My wife, who like me, IS old but not little, fumes - mostly silently, at checkout delays caused by such ladies.
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About the only faintly amusing thing you can do in a supermarket is to try and spot the checkouts that are going to be fast, and most importantly, the duds.
Look for older male assistants, older competent women, and young men with earrings and tatoos.
If you see a cashier ring the bell, choose another till - there is going to be a holdup.
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I wonder if the folk taken by surprise at having to pay are the same ones who can't plan further ahead than their windscreen wipers when driving? :-)
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>> Apparently almost no one even acknowledges the bus driver nowadays
>> Sounds like a London only thing.
A normal outcome of too much population. It is same in other countries where population density is high.
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Anyone who has ever worked in retail will have some empathy with the check out assistant. The way some customers treat retail staff and the regularity with which it happens can pall. I've done retail work in summer holidays and so on when I was younger and being constantly treated as sub-human can get a bit much.
Most of these jobs offer only the minimum wage and anyone with half a brain might fairly soon reckon they weren't being paid nearly enough to listen to the whinging unreasonable carp they have to suffer on a daily basis.
Good manners cost nothing and generally they are reciprocated in full by any reasonable person but who can really blame a grown up for retaliating mildly to rudeness.
Just because an individual has decided to enter into a commercial transaction with a business does not give then the right to treat the staff of that business with anything other than normal human respect. At the risk of sexism though, my own experience tells me that such behaviour is more prevalent among women who often appear at least to be more concerned with establishing their place in the pecking order in such circumstances. By and large, men tend to remain polite until given cause not to be. Can't begin to imagine why that should be the case but ask any retailer and they'll tell you the same.
I wouldn't sack her, I might quietly suggest she hold her tongue in future, but I might actually consider her for promotion too. She clearly has standards and thinks a bit which might suggest she has more to her than sitting behind a till. I'd far rather have a staff member I had to hold back than one I had to push forward any day.
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As a teenager, I worked on a Waitrose deli counter. It was a busy Saturday, and after serving one customer, I approached the next in line whose back was turned to the counter. "Can I help you, Madam?", I pipes up. Lovely long, dark hair, you see. For a geezer, as it turns out when he turns to face me. I thought I was going to get my white, see-though trilby knocked off but, after giving me a long hard stare to scare me, the chap burst out laughing. Phew. New trousers, please.
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Storm in a teacup! Would the checkout lady have refused to have served this customer if she (Customer) had been having a conversation with a friend or partner who was with her? Many is the time I have have been at a check out having items bleeped thru while the operator chats with her supervisor. Doesn't bother me one way or the other. All I really want is
1 Good morning
2. Do you want help with your packing
3. Cash or card
All of which I reply to and that's it really
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Quite right Humph...This area is generally quite pleasant compared to some of the accounts one hers/reads. Most shop people will talk beyond the purchase in the shops we go to. Lidl staff are a bit miserable - there is a shop in the next village some franchise or other, where we get the paper on the way back from walkies - and the woman that works there (Bethel, Bodorgan if you're reading love) has zero social skills - a shop that Royalty were seen in the past sure she's nice enough with them. Asda in Caernarfon - where I usually buy my lunch is superb - a young local lad has turned customer service into an art form.
Never go on a bus though !
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>>At the risk of sexism though, my own experience tells
>> me that such behaviour is more prevalent among women who often appear at least to
>> be more concerned with establishing their place in the pecking order in such circumstances.
Good post Humph, couldn't agree more.
Specifically on the bit I've copied above, you are definitely correct on that one. My wife, being a primary school teacher hated having a woman boss.
Also, when I retired from a management grade from the Old Bill and took a part-time job driving a van, (working for a friend and not really needing to work at all)...there was one lady, a junior manager in a set up that I regularly visited...who rang my shop and complained at my 'attitude'...yet I genuinely didn't have a clue what she was on about. There'd been no confrontation, no harsh words, nothing.
When I discussed it at length with my wife and then separately with the lady that runs the flower shop, a good friend (and let's face it, her business reputation is important to her) and one of the young girls who worked in the shop and had had the same thing 6 months before..I gradually worked it out...I didn't doff my cap enough??? She expected me to conform to her pecking order, she was the 'manager', I was the 'driver', something akin to detritus on the bottom of her shoe, therefore I should act accordingly..not stroll in confident as you like and as she was on the phone, leave the flowers and disappear with just a cheery wave. What a sad cow. I don't care if i'm delivering to the dinner lady or a head of a PLC, they all get the same cheery welcome. Proper annoyed me that did. The pretentiousness of some people? Had the last laugh though, she's recently been moved by her national outfit and went kicking and struggling..seems there were 'issues'..what a surprise?
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>> who rang my shop and complained at my 'attitude'...
Generally I am out of sympathy with this sort of grumbling, which has a misogynist edge. I expect a good proportion of the people I meet to be ignorant and uncultured and don't usually notice or give a damn when they are. But I have just remembered an incident from many years ago when I was dropping something off to an outfit in Soho or thereabouts: text, typescript, film, can't remember what or whether it was for me or someone else that I was delivering it.
The receptionist sitting behind a big empty desk looked disapprovingly at my unkempt attire and unshaven face, and coldly ordered me to 'take it to the cargo entrance'. I placed it on the desk, told her who it was for and coldly ordered her to telephone them and say it had arrived, adding: they will come down and get it. Then I left. That receptionist had succeeded in annoying me slightly.
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Things are only "ist" if they are not true. Otherwise they are just ( albeit sometimes uncomfortable ) facts.
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>> >> who rang my shop and complained at my 'attitude'...
>>
>> Generally I am out of sympathy with this sort of grumbling, which has a misogynist
>> edge. I expect a good proportion of the people I meet to be ignorant and
>> uncultured and don't usually notice or give a damn when they are.
Had the odd look or word that suggests I'm out of my place when welcoming senior people to conferences or explaining to speakers at events about using IT or what do do if firebell goes.
Particular example was about eight years ago when we wanted to engage somebody to assist us with communications. Shortlisted four and invited them to give a presentation to our Chairman and two others acting as a selection committee.
Inevitably each had a bit of Powerpoint and part of my job was to ensure it was loaded on a laptop and ran properly for them. There first slide was on the screen and I advised them rest were loaded and would advance on mouse clicks - for some reason we had a big trackball mouse rather then the usual sort.
All took it as intended bit the last gave me a withering look and very archly thanked me for the IT lesson.
I really hoped he'd cock it up!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 4 Jul 13 at 15:00
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>> Had the odd look or word that suggests I'm out of my place when welcoming
>> senior people to conferences
Is it your beard and sandals?....;-)
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>> Anyone who has ever worked in retail will have some empathy with the check out
>> assistant. The way some customers treat retail staff and the regularity with which it happens
>> can pall.
...
>> Just because an individual has decided to enter into a commercial transaction with a business
>> does not give then the right to treat the staff of that business with anything
>> other than normal human respect.
...
>>
>> I wouldn't sack her, I might quietly suggest she hold her tongue in future, but
>> I might actually consider her for promotion too. She clearly has standards and thinks a
>> bit which might suggest she has more to her than sitting behind a till. I'd
>> far rather have a staff member I had to hold back than one I had
>> to push forward any day.
I absolutely agree that many of the general public are thoughtless and ill mannered and for that reason I avoid them for the most part.
Anyone who has done bar work will know that you can choose your friends, but not your customers, and would never want to run a pub unless they can overcome that and still be the perfect host.
Same goes for shops. Nobody should put up with threats or abuse, but an offhand manner or even being on the phone is par for the course these days and you either have to put up with it or find another job. One thing is certain, the ill mannered customer will not thank you for correcting them and by doing so you are not doing your own job properly.
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Maybe so, but it doesn't make it right though does it? I'm glad the woman stood up for herself and I'm glad it's getting publicity. Won't change many but it night just occur to a few to think a bit harder about their behaviour towards others.
Courtesy should not be a direct function of one's economic standpoint. Everyone deserves the same level until they give the other party just cause not to reciprocate.
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It's a good one.
I *always* say hello to a checkout assistant when they start my stuff. I always try to have a chat with them, and I certainly would not conduct a telephone call whilst otherwise transacting with them (I have been known to be on the 'phone and say to the person at the other end just hang on whilst I pay for my apples, or whatever).
The customer was unforgivably rude. No; jolly rude, not as bad as unforgivable.
But if I were the manager of Sainsbury's, I'd be giving the cashier a formal warning.
So, as bad as each other, I'm afraid.
I *hate* it when the cashier ignores me and my best attempts to say hello. They often do.
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Like most organisations Sainsburys take the line of least resistance when it comes to dealing with complaints against staff. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the cashier had been privately told she was in the right, but the firm would apologise just so's not to upset a customer. I had to put up with this while working for a local authority, "You did the right thing, well done. He/she deserved to be told where to get off". Two weeks later the grinning member of the public comes up waving an official letter apologising and telling him/her you'd been spoken to and it wouldn't happen again. Such spineless behaviour used to drive me close to murder.
When I got into running a business myself I soon discovered that treating the odd ignorant moron how they deserved to be treated had no adverse effect on footfall. The customer who insists they are always right is more trouble than they're worth.
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I think the £10.00 voucher offer says it all. Talking to our volunteer yesterday (the newly minted M.A.) he works for a well known High Street shop to fund his course, he was saying that he is generally treated like a piece of crap by customers (who think they're right) he has developed his own strategy for dealing with phoning chavs. He scans their stuff as quickly as possible and demands payment in a very loud voice. I'm also reminded of a Syrian professor of classical studies who was kicked out of his native country for being the wrong kind of muslim, he works in the local Tesco on the check-outs to keep off benefits - I could never hope to even approach his world.
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"treated like a piece of crap"
I encounter this almost every day when picking up and dropping off cars.
Worst I had was in a dealership south of London.
I went in, spoke to receptionist - she was charming, and she said "someone would sign off car in a few minutes, would I take a seat and get a coffee". "Thank you, very kind of you" said I. She then rang salesman (I saw him pick up phone). Half an hour later she glanced across to me and indicated she would ring him again - he picked up phone: half an hour later the same thing. Finally, after one and half hours he waved me over. "Got a 5 series for you, there are one or two marks on it, do you want to have a look?" said I.
"Nah" said he, "just give me paperwork and I'll sign it off". Took him two seconds and I had waited 90 mins. There were no customers in the dealership at the time. He did not answer phone except when receptionist rang him for me. There were at least 4 other sales staff who could have dealt with me sitting at computers. And what did I do??
Said "Thank you very much" !!
On the other hand, today had immediate, very friendly service at 3 dealerships who signed me in/out in a few minutes.
So thank you Sytner Select, Leicester: Mazda, Northampton and BMW Milton Keynes - your efficiency and courtesy made the world of difference to my day!!! I got home early enough to have a glass of wine in the sunshine in the garden!!
All it takes is a little consideration and respect for the guy/gal doing their job.
PS - Generally Audi dealers are the worst - with one or two honourable exceptions!
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Skoda are the best. BMW Motorrad in Chester (They're in a smelly bit of Ellesmere Port really) are the most supercilious bunch of people I've ever had the displeasure to open my wallet to. They are on the first floor of a building and Harley Davidson occupy the ground floor and are much nicer. I won't be going to them again. Southport Motorrad for me next time. Human beings work there so I'm told.
I have to add with the exception of "Paul" who worked for Blue Bell in Crewe before they shut the franchise there.
Last edited by: R.P. on Fri 5 Jul 13 at 20:43
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"Skoda are the best."
But then Skoda Chester (up near the Cheshire Oaks place) kept me waiting for ages one time!
On the other hand, they were busy with customers and when it comes to selling a car or dealing with some old bloke picking up a car, I know where my priorities would lie!!!
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Motorrad is just down the road from there - Customer is King in Skoda-world. Used two of their dealers with my Roomie - totally peerless. The VW franchise at the same privately owned dealership was crap, really crap.
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In USA the cashiers all pack the shopping for you!
Mind you the cashier in the local Walmart also took out her phone and showed me directions to a local restaurant on her Google maps!
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I don't see how it's rude to use your phone when you are at a checkout anyway. I can't remember having done it myself, but what exactly does it matter?
The cashier starts scanning your stuff and then you bag it up, which you could do while on your phone. Half the time, the cashiers don't even tell you how much the shopping was and just wait silently for you to hand over your payment.
Do they expect you to wait in silent reverence while they carry out their sacred craft?
It would seem that there is a cashier with a chip on their shoulder, who just fancied being rude to a customer, for no good reason, even if it involved making up their own policy.
Sainsbury's did the right thing by apologising, and now we have these stupid retailers associations suggesting that the cashier was in the right.
Yeah, let's be rude to customers for no good reason, by imposing silly rules and talking to them like children. Oh, and maybe we can find some way to entice people back to the high street, while we're at it...idiots...
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Fri 5 Jul 13 at 23:24
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Do they expect you to wait in silent reverence while they carry out their sacred craft?
That made me laugh ! :-)
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>>their sacred craft?
There's often more to these things than meets the eye. I have yet successfully to use the self service checkout. I don't see the point, as there has to be a bod there to sort it out when it starts nagging about something to do with the bagging area.
I wonder if the cashiers alternate between left and right handed checkouts so they don't develop one enormous arm, like fiddler crabs?
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>> >>their sacred craft?
>>
>> There's often more to these things than meets the eye. I have yet successfully to
>> use the self service checkout.
I think you perhaps overestimate the skill required to work on a checkout. :)
Self service checkouts seem to have improved over the last couple of years. Previously they were very slow to scan and very temperamental about you doing things off script.
I use them where I can, unless I am buying a lot, when they can be too slow (because of the delay of having to place the items in the bagging area and wait a moment, before you can scan again).
Cashiers don't need to worry about such things, they can just scan item after item.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Fri 5 Jul 13 at 23:52
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Some checkout related misery here today. Went with SWM to the big new Tecsos not far away. We had a fair old load and the checkouts were fairly busy. Crafty, us ! Noticed a chap just starting his unload. Full trolley but multiples of just 3 or 4 items.......baps, packs of sausages/burgers, butter...maybe a dozen. Obviously for a BBQ.
Thought ' this'll be quick ' No such luck, the elderly male operator scanned each and every item instead of just one then multiplying. One pack of the buns wouldn't scan....he must have made 20 attempts instead of scanning the next one and multiplying by 2.
Took forever. No common sense !
Ted
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Why didn't you complain Ted? The checkout geezer hadn't been trained.
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>> Why didn't you complain Ted? The checkout geezer hadn't been trained.
>>
Blimey eight minutes to two in the morning!
You chaps that are up all night posting on here could easily go down to the 24 hour supermarket.
There would just be a few other like minded old eccentrics with whom you could have a good old group moan!
;-0
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I see that the press (Mail) are reporting that Sainsburys have done a U turn and are not going to discipline the checkout operator. Must have seen which way the wind of public opinion was blowing.
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"I see that the press (Mail) are reporting that Sainsburys have done a U turn and are not going to discipline the checkout operator"
Good - though a word on customer diplomacy might not go amiss. I say this, bearing in mind that my daughter works behind the counter in our local Sainsbury's bakery.
The mobile phone is an addictive disease, prevalent particularly among young women. My mate's daughter clutches hers as though her very life depends on it - and now, oh dear, my daughter is showing symptoms of the same disease. As I cycle down the cycle/foot path, I see them talking or tapping into their phones whilst pushing push-chairs, completely oblivious to me ringing my bell. I nearly fell off my bike a couple of weeks ago when I saw one actually talking to her baby!
EDIT - my wife has just pointed out that she'd probably lost the signal!
Last edited by: Haywain on Sat 6 Jul 13 at 14:54
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>> Good - though a word on customer diplomacy might not go amiss. I say this,
>> bearing in mind that my daughter works behind the counter in our local Sainsbury's bakery.
Quite. If you're the sort who has to put customers "in their place", then you probably shouldn't consider a career in retail.
But if we are moving into a new world of universal, old fashioned common courtesy, I suppose the supermarkets will now be enforcing a policy of all cashiers saying "hello, goodbye, please and thank you", and helping to bag your shopping when they have finished scanning rather than just sitting looking at you while you fumble about.
I'll expect that the next time I buy a pack of Airborne Pork Sausages...
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Sat 6 Jul 13 at 15:52
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Customer reaction is a fickle beast.
Following a single customer complaint Tesco staff in the Potteries were forbidden from addressing customers in the local vernacular of m'duck.
Cue dozens of complaints from locals who appreciated such informality.
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Might be Welsh language thing, noticed that Welsh language staff spend far more time gassing with customers, as the conduct the sacred task of scanning in the local Asda - odd thing linguistic dynamics.
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>> Customer reaction is a fickle beast.
Sure. But it always pays to be on the safe side.
Most people will never complain and will just let their feet do the talking.
As much as many staff may disagree, a retailer is there to make money, not to lead change in manners, customs etc.
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We meandered briefly onto customer service at garages. Took the Scoot in for its MoT this morning. There in plenty of time to share a coffee with the tester, then a pleasant hour of talking bikes with customers, another coffee when the shop manager came in then another when the owner came in. Bike test took all of 15 minutes spent over an hour there - how it should be - if you want. Umming an ahhing over coming to a deal with running a snack/bar van on his forecourt now. New skills required though...
Witnessed a cracking telling off delivered to the "boy" who turned up late. How it should be.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 19 Jul 13 at 01:15
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>>Sainsburys have done a U turn and are not going to discipline the checkout operator.
It doesn't really matter. I suspect that her career direction is assured.
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>> It doesn't really matter. I suspect that her career direction is assured.
>>
One of my thoughts on the subject too.
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I've just remembered that I did once lose my rag and come the heavy punter, in a motor factor somewhere or other.
The young fellow behind the counter had served another young fellow. Evidently they were friends, because they then embarked on an open-ended social conversation of no particular urgency. After waiting to be acknowledged for what seemed about ten minutes (but may well have been less than five) I exploded with rage and bawled at the young fellow behind the counter to pay some attention to me before continuing his interesting social conversation. He didn't know what to say and just gaped at me, not best pleased of course (but not as not best pleased as I was).
An older guy stepped forward instantly and served me. A bit embarrassing in retrospect.
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" I suspect that her career direction is assured."
Do you mean that she is a bright spark, a free thinker who will, one day, take over from Justin, or an undiplomatic twit who would be a lability? I haven't read all that was written - she wasn't a vac student biding her time before going on to Oxbridge and ultimately to become the next Margaret Thatcher, was she?
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Well, as I said previously, I'm glad the till lady's actions have served at least to draw public attention to how what would now appear to be the substantial majority of people feel about mobile phone ettiquette. Perhaps, with luck, a few of those who were too thick or full of their own self importance to realise they were being rude might just think twice in future about their phone usage and its appropriateness to a situation. ( was that a pig I saw flying by? )
As for the "customer is always right" BS, well, no they are not always. All transactions occur between humans and as such all parties have a duty of basic courtesy until given just cause to withhold it. Without that we are not much really.
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No, they are not always right. Nor often polite or respectful.
But if you want their money.....
And in any case, still not her decision.
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>> But if you want their money.....
That shouldn't necessarily be the major factor, it depends on the business. You might want the positive publicity of encouraging manners, to encourage a certain demographic (perhaps the well to do older or semi-older customer) who may well be more affluent...or...you might decide that the polite outnumber the rude, so encourage the polite.
>> And in any case, still not her decision.
>>
It might be. A good outfit would encourage junior staff to make their own decisions..and support them if it goes wrong.
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..you might decide that the
>> polite outnumber the rude, so encourage the polite.
>>
>>
>
Not sure how it would work in this case? How is this going to encourage the pilot, another customer talking on the phone at the checkout isn't going to put anyone off nor bring in the customers.
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>> Not sure how it would work in this case? How is this going to encourage
>> the pilot, another customer talking on the phone at the checkout isn't going to put
>> anyone off nor bring in the customers.
>>
This individual incident, i'd agree...but a company that had a known policy of encouraging good manners, old fashioned values, were known to look after their staff, etc, etc...that's a positive.
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>> >> Not sure how it would work in this case? How is this going to
>> encourage
>> >> the pilot, another customer talking on the phone at the checkout isn't going to
>> put
>> >> anyone off nor bring in the customers.
>> >>
>>
>> This individual incident, i'd agree...but a company that had a known policy of encouraging good
>> manners, old fashioned values, were known to look after their staff, etc, etc...that's a positive.
>>
Well my point was, would it, using this as an example, bring in the customers? To me no, I couldn't care less if the person in front of me is talking to the person stood 1ft away or 1000 miles away talking on a mobile whilst the bill was being rung up.
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>> still not her decision.
Agreed, but I'm still pleased she took it.
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Was in a supermarket earlier this week. Got my trolley in the way of a man loading the shelves and apologised. He said "No, no, customers have priority". Waitrose, of course.
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>> Well, as I said previously, I'm glad the till lady's actions have served at least
>> to draw public attention to how what would now appear to be the substantial majority
>> of people feel about mobile phone ettiquette.
Although I think the operator was wrong, I still think the customer was ignorant of good manners. But that is not unusual now. And it isn't the supermarket's or the employee's job to educate the customers - the ones that need it won't 'get' it, they will just go to Waitrose.
I don't mean that service providers should take insults or abuse. That is different. In this case, there was no insult given, only perceived.
>> As for the "customer is always right" BS, well, no they are not always.
Not BS. The proposition is service. The customer pays for it, they should get it. It doesn't need to be grovelling. And I'd rather it wasn't. But neither should the staff be pulling up the customers on their manners.
>> All
>> transactions occur between humans and as such all parties have a duty of basic courtesy
>> until given just cause to withhold it. Without that we are not much really.
I agree. I'm not some pompous prat who expects forelock tugging, I make a point of engaging with everybody I deal with, and it shows no character at all to be offhand or nasty with people just because you can - I would never be a git to somebody who is in no position to answer back.
I completely understand the operator's view. But she should have let it pass.
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Manatee's comment reminded me of this wonderful Private Eye cartoon...!
www.flickr.com/photos/67389469@N02/9223886131/in/set-72157634462799519
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I can't believe that apparently rational people are still discussing the rights and wrongs of this trivial, imperfectly described incident.
Or that a rational person could think the mere use of a mobile phone at an awkward moment might constitute disrespectful behaviour in itself.
Yes, I'm The Thing from Another World, and proud of it.
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>>I'm The Thing from Another World, and proud of it.
That was on the Sci-Fi channel the other day Sire, good film, it reminded me of thee.
:}
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>>>> But if you want their money.....
>> That shouldn't necessarily be the major factor
I'm not quite sure what you think a supermarket is there for if it isn't to extract as much money from as many different people as possible.
Certainly if n% of the country is horribly rude and wants to use their cell phone at the checkout, the supermarket wants their money as well. I guess unless they think that the behaviour of one customer will put off several others.
But, why is it rude? I don't want to talk to the checkout girl. I doubt she wants to talk to me. No sense in being rude about it, but we're not friends and I didn't go to the supermarket for a chat.
Is it more or less rude if I'm talking to the person standing next to me?
Perhaps she was ignoring the girl, or perhaps she was holding other people up. Then the issue is that she was ignoring the girl, or that she was holding people up.
I don't really understand why talking on the phone is annoying per se - its not as if I am attempting to interact with someone directly and that is the purpose of our meeting. (office meeting, interview, friend for examples).
The girl objected to someone on the phone, She voiced that objection, and she was at least off hand, and perhaps rude about it. I see no merit in any of that as she was working to serve a customer.
The customer was using a phone. So? That would be her right.
I see no redeeming qualities in the girl's behaviour. She didn't even have the wit to work out what might irritate her employer.
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>>I can't believe that apparently rational people are still discussing the rights and wrongs
It'd be pretty quiet round here if we only discussed the stuff worth discussing.
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"Is it more or less rude if I'm talking to the person standing next to me?"
It's more rude to talk on phone because the till girl could be part of a conversation if you/she/the person standing next to you wanted her to be.
Chatting on phone excludes the till girl.
"its not as if I am attempting to interact with someone directly" but surely you are - you are placing goods in front of her, expecting her to "swipe" them and then you are going to give her cash or swipe your card and then she gives you a receipt. And she'll probably ask you if you want help packing the goods or whether you need a bag.
Why don't you want to speak to the till girl? Why not have a little (meaningless?) chat? Doesn't it make her, and you, feel less like an automaton? Maybe that you value her help and she values your custom?
Must admit that I chat to almost every person who "serves " me. I thank bus drivers, the guy who sells me the train ticket, the bloke/girl who takes my money at the fuel station, the girl/guy who gets me a coffee, the receptionist at the dealership - why not? I'm not telling them my life story, just interacting a bit. Costs nowt and I can have a little interaction with another human being, otherwise I might get to speak to no-one all day.
Maybe I annoy them - but I usually get a smile and reply and a little chat.
Each to their own - not criticizing you, but I wonder if you "interact" with your "customers"?
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>>Each to their own - not criticizing you, but I wonder if you "interact" with your "customers"?
No, I'm not a particularly outgoing person. Quite genuinely other people do not interest me very much as individuals, and I don't expect to be particularly interesting to them. That does not mean I am rude or dismissive or disrespectful. Neither am I shy or withdrawn. I'm just not very interested.
I am a habitual thanker and probably write slightly more "thank you" letters than I do "oi, you git" letters.
I believe very much in courtesy, feigned interest on the other hand, as in the US for example, grates.
With my customers its an entirely different thought process. There I am doing a job, and I do it effectively which requires flexible levels of interaction.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 7 Jul 13 at 03:25
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>> But, why is it rude?
If you can't work that out, I haven't the time or energy to bother explaining.
On a similar front, if you were wearing sunglasses and started up a conversation with someone, would you out of politeness remove your sunglasses whilst talking with them..or just leave them on?
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>>If you can't work that out, I haven't the time or energy to bother explaining.
Don't be an ass. You had the time and energy to write out the above.
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>> >>If you can't work that out, I haven't the time or energy to bother explaining.
>>
>> Don't be an ass. You had the time and energy to write out the above.
>>
Deep sigh...I mean that if you cannot see it for yourself, then my explaining it won't make any difference
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>>Deep sigh...I mean that if you cannot see it for yourself, then my explaining it won't make any difference
Ok, but think about the *genuine* question;
Why is it rude?
Presumably talking to your partner whilst standing in the queue and not involving the checkout person is not rude? So why is it when its a phone call?
I get why its rude when you're actually with someone and they take or make a phone call, but that isn't the case here.
If someone was directly rude to the person or ignored the person, I'd understand why that is to be avoided. But I'm really not getting why the mobile phone is rude.
Perhaps its because its frustrating for the listener? Because they only get half of the conversation and so don't get to follow the conversation? But whilst I understand why that would be frustrating, I still don't get why it is rude.
Just because you choose to be annoyed by something a stranger does, doesn't make them rude.
Without facetious comment, can you explain to me why talking on a cell phone when surrounded by strangers is rude, but talking to the person next to you is not?
I bet you can't. I bet you don't even know.
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>> I'm not quite sure what you think a supermarket is there for if it isn't
>> to extract as much money from as many different people as possible.
With other angles intertwined..e.g. ethics.
Think John Lewis.
You are coming across as a double glazing salesman.
Grab what you can now...or create the atmosphere to nurture custom over a long period?
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According to Broadcasting House on R4 this morning it was reported that a coffee shop somewhere in London (Pimlico I think) - have a notice saying they won't serve people who are using cell phones.
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>> According to Broadcasting House on R4 this morning it was reported that a coffee shop
>> somewhere in London (Pimlico I think) - have a notice saying they won't serve people
>> who are using cell phones.
>>
They will encourage their customer base by appearing to be 'on side' with well mannered people, (having a common goal and sharing their distaste for bad manners)... and encouraging them to use their business...and in the meantime they've got some free publicity as well.
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I have a feeling that if C4P members start interacting with each other in real lives, that will be a very interesting situation.
Suddenly many otherwise very polite and helpful bunch of people will appear as rude :-)
Glad that we interact here anonymously.
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>> >> According to Broadcasting House on R4 this morning it was reported that a coffee
>> shop
>> >> somewhere in London (Pimlico I think) - have a notice saying they won't serve
>> people
>> >> who are using cell phones.
>> >>
>>
>> They will encourage their customer base by appearing to be 'on side' with well mannered
>> people, (having a common goal and sharing their distaste for bad manners)... and encouraging them
>> to use their business...and in the meantime they've got some free publicity as well.
It is ONLY free publicity WP.
Nobody really cares enough to pick a coffee shop based on the idea that they are crusaders for good manners. Some might like to think they would, but once the excitement has worn off, they'd think differently.
However, anybody they do refuse to serve may well never go back there.
It's not as if there is a lack of coffee shops.
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>> I'm not quite sure what you think a supermarket is there for if it isn't
>> to extract as much money from as many different people as possible.
>
>With other angles intertwined. e.g. ethics.
Ethics are a method by which you attract the market segment which you believe will bring you the most revenue.
It is a competitive differentiator. AS is being cheap, being cool, being conservative or whatever.
The end goal remains the same, revenue.
Custom over a long period versus a short term customer is a business decision valuing the cost of customer service relative to the cost of customer acquisition within the context of the target markets for that business.
Or to put it more simply - getting more money.
A store would ban cell phone if they thought that the number of customers and amount of revenue attracted would exceed the amount lost.
Its why pubs didn't ban smoking until a) it was compulsory and b) the playing field remained equal because everybody had to do it.
Money.
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>> Ethics are a method by which you attract the market segment which you believe will
>> bring you the most revenue.
Yes...John lewis, Waitrose, First Direct and many more.
They are very successful and are not money at all costs, but choose the right customer to maximise the money....
...and that is why Sainsbury's have done an about turn when they realised public opinion supported their staff member rather than the customer.
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>>and are not money at all costs, but choose the right customer to maximise the money
I can only suggest you re-read your own sentence.
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>> >>and are not money at all costs, but choose the right customer to maximise the
>> money
>>
>> I can only suggest you re-read your own sentence.
There's nothing anomalous about my statement, albeit it could have been more full.
I'll put it another way...only I suspect you know very well what I mean.
The end goal i.e. maximising the profit might well mean a short term loss or a seeming short term loss...to go for the right sort of customer and the right profit...not automatically taking every customer...so you enhance your status with the right sort of customer, to the detriment of the wrong sort of customer.
So you're not taking the money or trying to take the money off everyone, just targeting the fruitful ones.
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>So you're not............. trying to take the money off everyone
Yes you are.
But when one has to make a choice, where one customer precludes another, then one will choose those who will represent the largest positive impact on revenue.
Every business tries to widen its audience without alienating any part of its existing audience.
It is *all* about money.
It is *only* about money.
That is the point of a business. That is the only point about a business.
However much you wish it was, or insist on stating it to be, otherwise.
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>>Every business tries to widen its audience without alienating any part of its existing audience.
It is *all* about money.
It is *only* about money.
That is the point of a business. That is the only point about a business.
However much you wish it was, or insist on stating it to be, otherwise.
And that, in a nutshell, is why running the NHS like a business will throw up "Staffords" time and time again.
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Spot on.
It is why financial budget can not be, should not be, in fact must not be, any kind of useful measure on the NHS.
Ditto the Police, Fire, Ambulance etc. etc.
Because financially one would never have an NHS; Whereas morally, philosophically and aspirationally one would.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 7 Jul 13 at 22:06
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When I studied Business studies after leaving school the Lecturer posed a question, "Is a business based on making a profit or providing a service/catering for a demand?" It sparked an interesting discussion. The overiding aim is, of course, to make a profit but the two go hand in hand one does not happen without the other.
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>> ...and that is why Sainsbury's have done an about turn when they realised public opinion
>> supported their staff member rather than the customer.
But they haven't done an about turn have they? They've cleverly played to all audiences.
The customer got an apology and some cash, and the cashier didn't get disciplined (yet she won't ever do it again), they made a vague statement about manners and people working hard, but certainly aren't talking any nonsense about banning use of mobiles.
So, as it should be, everybody thinks that they won, the staff, the customer, the public who side with the customer and the public who side with the staff.
Good diplomacy.
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Ethics is a county to the east of London, innit?
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I feel sure you meant...
Ethics is a county to the eatht of London, innit?
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Well I never - It's just happened to me - I was asked by a colleague to speak to a client today - When I got to her she was texting like mad - and without even a please thank you or an F Off she or without even a pause for effect to thank me for advice that would have cost her £250.00 from a Solicitor. I never got to see her boat race thanks to her giant Smart-phone....Well that's it - I know where I stand on this now. Ignorant or what !
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"When I got to her she was texting like mad................."
It's an illness, I tell you......... an illness!
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......on a par with folk walking along a street, shopping, and almost any other activity, with wires leading from their lug-holes to a "music" making machine - iPods aren't they, or summat similar?
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>> "When I got to her she was texting like mad................."
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>> It's an illness, I tell you......... an illness!
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Look on the bright side, at least she wasn't aiming two tons of steel at you.
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>> Well I never - It's just happened to me - I was asked by a
>> colleague to speak to a client today - When I got to her she was
>> texting like mad - and without even a please thank you or an F Off
>> she or without even a pause for effect to thank me for advice that would
>> have cost her £250.00 from a Solicitor. I never got to see her boat race
>> thanks to her giant Smart-phone....Well that's it - I know where I stand on this
>> now. Ignorant or what !
Oh dont be upset there RP, I would offer you an eff off.
Have a nice day.
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Thank you dear - I feel better now.
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Whose side are you on? - Alanovich
