To get rid of my office, I simply cannot afford to keep throwing money down the drain. I am doing less domestic repair work which requires PCs been on my bench and i AM trying to get more business work. I am also pushing web development and in the process of learning some niche products.
Following in from that, I am slowly tempted to get rid of the car as well, at the moment I will keep it but if I end up doing less work where I need to take computers back to the bench it is the car is becoming more of an expensive luxury item.
Been looking at applying for part time jobs too, e.g night shifts at places that won't affect my business too much but will allow me to start saving up. I have enjoyed my business, but been doing it almost 8 years now and it was never ever supposed go this far, it really was just a way of getting of the dole. I have succeeded in that, but I have not succeeded in making a decent living.
Edited at the request of the author
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 29 Jun 13 at 00:11
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I hope you take some pride in getting yourself off the dole Rattle, well done and a shame it hasn't turned out better. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do in these difficult times.
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8 years constant employment can't be bad, and I remind people of that when people say they are earning twice as much as me, well yes maybe so, but I haven't spent half that time in between work.
Not actually jacking in my repair business, just reducing costs to make things more manageable but could also with part time work as well. Profit lately has been down to around £600 a month and for somebody my age (nearly 31) it is not enough.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Wed 26 Jun 13 at 21:09
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You've clearly slogged at it Rats. Keep your pecker up....change may be around the corner !
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you need to make a bigger decision than this Ratts. As I warned you a couple of years back, there is a declining market for SOHO PC repairs and support.
You are going to need to get yourself in to company (contracting if required) or you are gonna have to change career completely.
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I have known for a while as well Zero but been putting my head in the sand for far too long. It is a shame as I really do enjoy the travelling around but the PC repair business is a problem for two reasons.
1) The obvious shift to tablets and phones
2) Increase in competition, too many startups charging 1/3 of what I do.
One thing I am doing at the moment is playing with VMware and learning Windows Server, Active Directory etc. I do have quite a few business customers that keep me going, if it wasn't for them I would have been forced to quite a long time ago.
I recently got 10,000 leaflets out, and from that I got one job from it, that is how bad the situation now is.
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Sorry things are tough right now Rats. Although things being tough is not an unusual state of current affairs unfortunately. You're probably already caught in that life trap where no one is going to pay you what you want or indeed even need to earn for knowledge and experience you don't have. ( if you see what I mean? )
In other words, you probably have to look for a fresh start if you are to radically re-position your future but fresh starts often mean having to accept having even less than you have now for a while during learning a new way of supporting and developing yourself.
However, a couple of thoughts occur to me. If you've harboured any ambitions to re-train ( at whatever ) then the new college / university year is not far off now. You live with your parents so presumably you can lean on them a while longer in terms of a bed. You could continue to run your repair business at a lower level while attending a training course and you might be surprised at how well weekend work can pay in even the most mundane of environments.
For example, when our son was little, my wife chose not to continue with her full time job but decided instead to get part time weekend work so that between us there would always be someone available to look after the wee fella. She managed to get a couple of shifts at our local supermarket in the back office. Just basic clerical work but because the hours were a bit strange ( 06.00 - 13.00 on Saturdays and 07.00 - 13.00 on Sundays ) the pay rates were actually quite good especially as it just nudged in under the tax threshold.
Good luck anyway with whatever you decide but if you are up for a tip, don't see this as a set back. See it as an opportunity to re-invent your fortunes. You can't radically re-position the direction of those without radically re-positioning the direction of your effort.
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What a very uplifting post. Seriously.
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Sorry to hear you have had to give up the office space - but I suspect you knew it was not the solution. I thought it was a change that was not the best idea - but I know you wanted to move out of the home for business purposes.
Looking ahead, and knowing a bit about your background in IT, like Zero I think you ought to look at getting into an IT company. A contracting position might be an opening. Or break fix. The latter involves driving which is a problem - I could have pointed you in the direction of something before now but thought it pointless because you won't drive anywhere new/busy.
Looking ahead then playing with virtualised environments will help. And do check out the free Microsoft Academy Online material:
www.microsoftvirtualacademy.com
Also virtual labs on Technet:
technet.microsoft.com/en-us/virtuallabs/bb467605.aspx
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Thanks for that, the virtual labs is a big help.
My as you know I don't have that much hands on business IT support, it always tends to be smaller businesses or when occasionally I have been subcontracted to do work such as setting up mailboxes on outlook and that sort of thing.
I have handed in my notice at my business park, but he said I can hand in my notice on a month by month basis, so if I change my mind I can let them know each month.
edited at request of author
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 29 Jun 13 at 00:13
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Yep seen that job on Reed that was the one I was meaning and I will apply for it.
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Possibly the fact that consumer laptops & PCs are quite cheap these days may have something to do with falling off repair work.
If something goes wrong it's not too hard to stroll into a retail shed and pick up a perfectly OK machine for everyday stuff for around three hundred quid, or a little more.
Contrast that with a few hours work to mend one at a labour rate of, say, twenty quid an hour and the argument for a shiny new machine starts to look persuasive.
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>> I will apply for it.
Wrong attitude (and tense). You should have applied for it the moment you saw it.
You're welcome, by the way.
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Thanks FM2.
edited at request of author
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 29 Jun 13 at 00:14
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Look, if you apply for a job when you're not fully prepared then you might not get a chance.
If you do not apply for a job because you're not fully prepared then you will *definitely* not get a chance.
Applying at the "wrong" moment will always be better than not applying.
And as I say to my children, if you have a complicated and credible reason to hand as to why you have not done something, then you're fooling yourself and trying to fool me.
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Following on from NoFM2R's post.
You know i drive lorries and have done for a lifetime, fortunately i had a lucky break and managed to specialise which has given me very well paid work for many years whilst able to be out and about, which suits me but we're all different.
The point of this post is that i now work for one of the best employers (family owned business) with 50 miles, during my time here i have seen how some people get jobs and how some don't, if you want work in any other industry that has to turn a profit i think there are some ways to stack the odds in your favour.
Whether you cold call (i did) or are recommended the theme is the same, if you get tipped the nod they are interested in you, rip their arm off, they mention CV and its on the bosses desk either straight away by email or as i did by hand delivering it the same evening, strike while the irons hot.
I've seen several turned away for not being keen or hungry enough.
''i'll think about it'' or ''i'll have a chat with the mrs about it''...then about a week later they get in touch, might even get an interview but i can tell you they won't get a job.
Have that CV ready Rattie, and have a little speech compiled in your head in case you happen to pigeon hole an interested employer, you probably have a couple of minutes to make him interested in you.
One other thing, i have never ever secured a good job by replying to an advert, good jobs certainly in my game are never advertised, go and knock on those doors, and the best of luck with it all.
PS Very inspirational post by Hump above.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Thu 27 Jun 13 at 18:53
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GB's post was all very good, but I think this is the key message.....
"or not being keen or hungry enough."
If you *were* keen and hungry enough, then doing your CV would be more important than writing here.
If you *were* keen and hungry enough, then you would have applied for that job. And I bet 10 other jobs which I could find advertised in the next 5 minutes.
And whilst GB is correct that the best jobs are not usually advertised, some are.
People who give jobs think they are giving a valuable thing. They are offering you an opportunity in the company that they themselves work in and therefore are usually proud of.
So if you don't come across as dead keen, then they're a little bit offended and don;t see why they should be keen on you.
GB, and he is just one example in here, is doing what he wants to do. He proactively went out and sought what he wanted and ultimately got it. He cold called, he hand delivered a CV immediately, he prepared and he appeared keen. I'm sure he did much more which he did not mention.
You should do no less.
There are no real reasons why you cannot do this, and the only reason why you do not (if you do not) is that you didn't want to enough.
Have you done your CV yet? Have you applied for that job yet? If not, ask yourself why not.
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All good advice above. Get your CV sorted and checked. You can polish it some more in the days to come but at least you have something to hand. You have to be keen and you cannot fake it. Presentation is both you and your CV.
Of course you can tweak your CV for different jobs.
I suspect less corporate speak and more honesty will be well received
My son while still in the sixth form enquired about a Saturday job at a big departmental store.
"Sorry no vacancies". Well here is my CV etc. He got a call from them the same day and a job.
He was on work experience at Heathrow check in when a passenger from a world wide blue chip company gave him her business card and said "If you want a job then contact me"
Good luck
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And don't do what a colleague of mine once did. Applying for the vacant foremans job he scribbled out his application on a piece of towel role and handed it in.
He then spent the next few months grumbling that the whole procedure was fixed because he didn't even get an interview.
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Getting to speak to a decision maker...
E-mails work better than letters
Phone calls work better than E-mails
Personal visits work better than phone calls
Being introduced by someone else works best of all.
But, whatever method you use, do it in the hour before 09.00 and the hour after 17.00. Quite often, the "boss" hasn't got any "protection" in the form of a receptionist / PA etc at those times and is unlikely to be caught up in a scheduled meeting but is very often there preparing for the day or finishing it off.
For example, turn up in reception at a company you'd like to talk to at 08.15 in the morning and politely ask whoever is about if you could "make an appointment" to have 5 minutes with the head of HR please? Chances are, whoever you have collared will be a senior manager. See what I mean? Course you do ! Go get 'em !
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And while I am on a roll....
Your CV is only capable of getting you an interview, it will not get you the job.
An interview will get you the job. But that comes later, so lets talk about getting an interview. We can worry about doing an interview or getting the job after you've got started.
So, read the advert and make sure your CV answers that job advert. If you are not customising your CV for each and every application, then you are not doing it properly. Do keep a copy of which CV you sent to whom.
When the CVs are received they will be sorted by an administrator. That Admin person will have been told that your CV must have these n key points.
If your CV does not have those points, it will be thrown away, however good the rest of it is.
Do not worry about telling your life story. That may come later in an interview. Your CV is simply to answer a few narrow questions.
If your CV is too difficult to read, or too long to read, then the administrator will get bored of trying to work it out and throw it away.
If you put a picture on your CV (DON'T) then if the administrator thinks you are weird, ugly, unattractive, too young, too old, whatever then it will be thrown away.
Apply the SFW test. Imagine you are the interviewer reading each sentence of your CV. At the end of each sentence they will ask themselves - SFW? If they, or you, can't succinctly answer that then take it out.
e.g. "I was team leader in a meat packing factory". "SFW, this is an IT job with no supervisory duties".
Do NOT put anything in hobbies and interests if it isn't or you're not.
Consider EVERYTHING you write online. It can be found by a potential employer, especially when that's an IT group.
Be polite and truthful to everyone you meet, you do not know when you will meet them again.
You're CV should be typed. Many applications require a letter as well.
Popular advice says that cover letters should be written. I hate reading someone else's handwriting and would throw it away. I have no idea what is the prevalent view.
The cover letter is ONLY to get someone interested enough to read your CV. So don't say too much.
Don't forget that.........
In your cover letter you are answering the question;
"Why should I read your CV?"
In the CV you are answering the question;
"Why should I interview you?"
In the interview you are answering the question;
"Why should I employ you?"
And random conversations at bus stops, at Heathrow Check-In, in a pub, on here and anywhere else can count as a cover letter. Don't forget that either.
Because cover letters can STOP you getting on as well.
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All good points. When unemployed I was sent on a course for "professionals!" on job hunting - 13 weeks every Friday afternoon. Massive amount of help and good tips. I won't do them all here now, but:
CV is your advert, it has to look good
Top 1/3 needs to contain a succinct para or two about your experience, name dropping household names where you can, and quantifying stuff (in my case, for instance, I worked with Dell deploying 12000 machines in Ford Motor Company). (Top 1/3 because thats what they see when they open it on screen, and you want them to read on).
Apply ASAP for online jobs as they are often gone by the time you get the emails, particularly the sweepers (e.g. Indeed)
If you really fancy a particular job, get your CV into the agency then call them first thing next day "I just wanted to check you received my CV and whether I am what you are looking for". Then they have to open it (only ever had one refusal) and if you DO fit the bill they will usually out you forward - otherwise you are an also-ran whose CV didn't even get looked at
Work on your TMAY - Tell Me About Yourself and practice it aloud in front of the mirror. It's maybe 2 minutes about yourself, what you've done and what your key skills are. Once you have practiced it you will be able to trot it off on demand, and it will become invaluable to you - you might get to use it in a social situation where you are introduce to someone who says "What do you do?" and turns out to be a useful contact, but it will certainly help you in interviews as invariably you will get to use it at the start, and it will put you at ease.
Research competency based interviews as quite a few in the computer business use that technique - "tell me about a time when you..."
Remember the STAR technique (again, research) - if you get a competency type question formulate your answer as Situation, Task, Action, Result.
I've got loads more of this, how to greet if interviewers already in room, how to greet if you are sitting waiting for them, how to dress (plain shirt for banking, striped for business, flowery a non- unless for PR :-) ) . How to approach people on LinkedIn.
But the key thing is to get your CV right, it is your one and only advert and it is that, and that only, which gets you to the next stage.
Finally they quoted a statistic that over 70% of jobs are actually found through networking, so tap up old friends, colleagues and customers.
EDIT: I'm not claiming to be an expert but if you get the details down I can see if I can help knock your CV into a decent format if you want, and/or give you a free critical analysis!! You know how to contact me...
EDIT AGAIN - CV on two pages, don't include hobbies and interests (who cares if a grown man likes reading and bird-watching?) - use the space for useful stuff. I don't even have my postal address on mine, just postcode and mobile number.
RE_EDIT - Competency based stuff - first hot on Google www.interview-skills.co.uk/competency-based-interviews-questions.aspx
STAR technique - www.interview-skills.co.uk/competency-based-interviews-STAR.aspx
TMAY - www.openreq.com/news/tell-me-about-yourself-tmay/
But the first thing is to get your CV right.
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 27 Jun 13 at 20:23
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"not being keen or hungry enough."
Hope this is relevant. My son took a holiday/weekend job at a well known supermarket (name begins with Sain) when he was at school. Bottom end of the job market (trolley boy!). Because he was "keen and hungry" and would accept work at all sorts of unsocial hours he was soon working "inside" and, to cut a long story short, ended up managing the store (a good sized one) at weekends and overnight and when they opened 24 hrs a day. By the time he was at university a few years later they were asking him to go on management courses and work permanently for them.
Daughter also started work there, shelf stacker, then tills, then price management. She ended up going to other newly opened stores training others in price management.
All this as students - but key point is that they were keen, enthusiastic, intelligent (got that from their Mum!!) and willing to put in the daft hours to start with.
Point is, if you are "keen and hungry enough" and show a bit of initiative your employer will (should?) recognise it and you will make progress.
Not suggesting you should apply to be a "trolley boy" but hope you see what I mean.
Good luck Rattle.
P
PS Neither son or daughter work at supermarkets now!
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I've never had to have a CV, but if I was looking to employ someone then I would be more impressed if the spelling/grammar was correct with apostrophes in all the right places.
I don't know if any others here think the same. I know some teachers think the subject isn't important as long as the meaning is understood.
I do think it may be important to older readers of your CV. Lud and I can help you here !
Ted
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Thanks for all the comments not read all the advice yet but I intend to after I have replied. , I applied for that job but I don't expect to get it, I need to start lower down the chain.
I found it difficult to get a job when I graduated hence setting up my business.
I have also decided to keep the unit another month, so I vacant at the end of August, to give me time to try and find another income but then I may change my mind again tomorrow morning. I think it is like a final moment of admitting defeat, a lot of the furniture like work bench I built myself and is unique to that unit, so I will have to break it all up :( That will be quite sad.
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Reading all the CV things, it is interesting a lot of people have different opinions, I do like the idea of excluding hobbies, I never really got the point of that.
As for hand written covering letters, I never knew that was supposed to be preferred, I would have thought at least for IT jobs it is a no no. My chance of getting a job through conventional means is frankly slim but I am asking around as people may know something.
II do really appreciate your replies. I am away tomorrow for a family short break but hopefully I will be able to get onto the net at some point, probably on my phone if not I will be back on Sunday to do some more search.
edited at request of author
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 29 Jun 13 at 00:16
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Using the call-'em-up-after-applying approach, I hardly bother with covering letters when it's an agency. They are all leeches anyway and just want to place anyone, they really don't care who, before some other agency gets in, so they get their commission.
I applied for a job the other week which I actually had the perfect fit background. He was so excited and actually called me before I had the chance to call him. By the Wed the other agencies had scraped the details and it was advertised all over the place, and he then told me the on the Thursday that the company (a well respected accountancy company who I would have thought were able to plan their requirements a little) were only interested in candidates who were immediately available, so my two week notice period ruled me out. (The point being he is allowed to put in 3 CVs and their mission is to be the first to submit them, doesn't really matter whether the candidates are top flight, they just need to be adequate, so that he gets repeat business)
With apologies to any IT recruiters here of course :-)
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removed as it included some stuff that the author didn't want mentioning
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Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 29 Jun 13 at 00:17
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It isn't tough to get jobs at the moment Rattle, over 90% of those eligible for work are employed. Go back to what Mark said about a self fulfilling prophecy.
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Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 29 Jun 13 at 00:19
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I am the last person to give career advice having had no proper career of any description, just random bits of what might have become three or four careers in an erratic, generally fortunate life.
However being old and overbearing I would say that Humph's post up there is very much along the right lines.
Someone else referred to some career possibility but said the Sheikh wouldn't want to do all that driving. I've never understood why a young man with a new car doesn't get used to it and hurtle about happily for much of the time. But it isn't Rattolo's nature. However I don't think it's too late for him to acquire a more gung-ho and confident attitude to the road. An IAM teacher perhaps, but only the right one...
My late lamented cousin was a pony-obsessed girl quite silly in many ways although charming. But she was a damn good driver having been privately tutored by a Flying Squad driver hired by her old military grandfather. The Sheikh needs something like that. It's mad of him to consider flogging his jalopy. It's a 'means of production' for heaven's sake.
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Pick one in demand skill area and focus on that if I were you. And the version of products will be important. Windows Server 2012 is obviously the latest server OS for example, but W2K8 R2 will be a more in demand skill I would think.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 29 Jun 13 at 00:19
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>> Someone else referred to some career possibility but said the Sheikh wouldn't want to do all
>> that driving. I've never understood why a young man with a new car doesn't get used
>> to it and hurtle about happily for much of the time.
That will have been me. And if he got the job would have got a company car too. But he'd be expected to drive places and so I didn't see the point in mentioning it really. Wouldn't post details on an open forum either.
Could have been a stepping stone to something else. We have plenty of positions on help desks, some based in Manchester. Not great pay. He could even get on the tram near his home and get off opposite our offices. I would think jobs come up all the time on help desks.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 27 Jun 13 at 23:43
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rats sad news man that your business has taken a hit, blame it on the recession, what you gotta do is strike it hot, lean and hungry, are you hungry rats, picture you after a audi bmw rolls Royce, etc,,,, or a lada then go and get them.
If you are working with business customers ask if there is a vacancy available even if its part time,
don't be too lax rats there are others who wanna grab the slice of pie
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Anxiety.
Basically a lack of self-worth so bad that you convince yourself no-one else would possibly want to employ you = you are beaten before the start.
The lay-person who doesn't suffer anxiety would imagine it to be a horrific, destructive, negative force.
To the anxious person, however, the danger is it becomes a safe, welcome, comforting blanket that helps you justify why your life is crap and why you can't move forward.
In reality, Rats, you are trying to sell yourself to an employer: there are plenty of managers and sales guys on this forum, who will tell you that you can look for the perfect opportunity to make that sale but in the real world here's how sales work...
You remain positive, believing in what you have for sale, and you pitch to each potential customer - if you are lucky you will get a hit rate of 1 sale for every 6 or 7 pitches.
Either you can learn to deal with this rejection/acceptance ratio, or you continue to convince yourself that no-one wants you, and it's not your fault, and that maybe somehow in the future things will change.
Summary: you can do it, and you can do it NOW - no ifs, buts, or bullshizz. Or give in to the warm suffocating embrace of failure and sink into a future of what may have been.
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>> I have also decided to keep the unit another month, so I vacant at the
>> end of August, to give me time to try and find another income but then
>> I may change my mind again tomorrow morning.
So you haven't made a big decision today.
And there is the problem. If you put you mind to do stuff, you need to do it, not drift. people who drift get cast away and drown.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 28 Jun 13 at 09:27
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>> I have also decided to keep the unit another month, so I vacant at the
>> end of August, to give me time to try and find another income but then
>> I may change my mind again tomorrow morning.
Procrastination is the thief of time, and you're in your thirties already. And for goodness sake try to improve your English, both written and verbal.
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>> And for goodness sake try to improve your English, both written and verbal.
To be fair, when Rattle arrived here he was almost completely illiterate, and blamed that on incurable dyslexia. He's significantly cured that, and I like to think I can take some of the credit through being rude about it.
An awful lot of "dyslexia" is teacher-sponsored laziness. I've two dyslexic ex-girlfriends who aren't dyslexic these days...
Dyslexia is perfectly curable, but it takes hard work.
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>> >> And for goodness sake try to improve your English, both written and verbal.
>>
>> To be fair, when Rattle arrived here he was almost completely illiterate, and blamed that
>> on incurable dyslexia. He's significantly cured that, and I like to think I can take
>> some of the credit through being rude about it.
Not been able to cure you of your delusions tho have we.
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I found that the best technique for applying for jobs is ...........
(a) Choose the area of the country in which you're prepared to work/live.
(b) Decide what type of company/industry you want to work for.
(c) Find as many companies as you can that satisfy (a) and (b).
(d) Contact as many companies from (c) as possible, and tell them your virtues and what sort of job you're looking for. Sometimes a department head within a company will realise that they could do with someone of your calibre, and they will create a vacancy and you'll be the first to be interviewed. Keep up a steady stream of applications daily, not just one at a time. Expect your number of applications to run into the hundreds.
I had this technique endorsed by more than one personnel manager.
Applying for jobs that are advertised will generally be far less productive because of the large number of applicants and hence the large amount of competition.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 28 Jun 13 at 09:12
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First thing I'd do is polish your interview "style" if you're good at getting interviews but fall short at this stage. There are a few good recruitment agencies out there and they can help you on this if they sense it is a problem. Whether you get work from them is immaterial just benefit from their knowledge. It should be free.
>>>>>>I do have quite a few business customers that keep me going, if it wasn't for them I would have been forced to quite a long time ago.
Call them up or drop by early/late and ask if you can make an appointment for just 10 or 15 minutes of their time as you'd appreciate their help and advice on the next stage of your career. Reassure the customer that you'll be around to provide continuity of support and don't mention you're not making enough money. The vast majority of decent people like "helping" if they can even in a small way. They know you, they know you do a decent job (probably very good I don't know) and they know other people in their business and outside of it that they should feel comfortable introducing you (or at least your CV) to. Key thing is that whoever reads your CV or meets you knows you come recommended. You have to put yourself about but just doing it blind or scattergun can be difficult.
I'm not a big user of Linkedin but if I was looking for a career change I'd be on it, joining the relevant IT groups, finding other people who know me, seeking endorsements for my work and skills and doing the same for them. In my CV and on email signature I'd have a link to my Linkedin profile. Having seen this work on many occasions I am no longer the grumpy old cynic I once was.
Good luck
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Thanks for all the advice again, that seems to be the trick to nag people and ask around etc and not rely on the traditional process of applying for jobs.
I am now going to ask the mods to delete this thread, as people have said employers often read forums and there is quite a bit of personal information on here which means it would be obvious it was me.
Thanks to everybody who has replied, I can't name all the helpful replies as there were so many of them. I have copied and pasted a lot of the replies on here so I can re-read them when as I am working on my plan.
Once again a kind thank you.
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NeilS is spot on. You don't go and ask people if they have a job for you because by the law of averages they haven't, it makes them feel bad, and it's a short conversation.
But almost everybody you know through business will make time if you call them in the way that Neil suggests, on the basis that you would value their view on how you might develop your business. They might even take you out to lunch. You can speculate if you like about the sort of things you have been thinking about (i.e. give them the odd hint if necessary) They may or may not volunteer any contacts, so before you leave, Columbo style, ask them - "do you know anybody who might be able to use my skills/services?" They almost certainly will, which gives you a far better intro than making a cold call.
You don't have to ask if they have anything else going, or a full time job - if they have, and they're willing to consider you for it they'll tell you.
Most people feel embarrassed if somebody comes with a problem they can't help with. But if somebody says they value their opinion and are interested in their advice, it's a different conversation.
People you know really well you can be more direct with, but if you want to ask straight out if they know of any jobs going, leave it to the end.
If you wondered what getting jobs through networking was, that's it.
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To quote from the thread:-
"I am now going to ask the mods to delete this thread, as people have said employers often read forums and there is quite a bit of personal information on here which means it would be obvious it was me.
Thanks for all the advice again, that seems to be the trick to nag people and ask around etc and not rely on the traditional process of applying for jobs.
Thanks to everybody who has replied, I can't name all the helpful replies as there were so many of them. I have copied and pasted a lot of the replies on here so I can re-read them when as I am working on my plan.
Once again a kind thank you."
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I have just written a massive post on Linked In for Rattle, If the thread is just hidden for now, maybe a mod can cut and paste it and email it to him.
Otherwise Rattle, get in touch and I'll rewrite it for you. It'll be later as I have to go out now.
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And if so, perhaps send me a copy also.
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And I spent quite a bit of time giving constructive advice based on experience which it'd be a shame to lose...
Mind you, I did offer to discuss a possible contract deployment role a couple of years back when a similar thread was running which was declined.
Lesson learnt!!
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Actually thinking about this, and I know it'd be a chunk of work for a moderator;
Can you just hide Rattle's stuff?
The rest was pretty good generic advice that effort was put into and which might help others in the future.
I'm sure its churlish, but I feel a little aggrieved that the considerable thought and effort put in is simply hidden because Rattle changed his mind.
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>> Can you just hide Rattle's stuff?
Probably easier just to delete content from his posts, and any posts that quote it.
>> I feel a little aggrieved that the considerable thought and effort put in
I appreciate what you are saying.
I'll try and sort it out ASAP (unless another mod wants to volunteer?)
EDIT - I'll ask Rattle's permission first before I get the scissors out.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 28 Jun 13 at 12:54
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I don't think it's worth getting upset or aggrieved by much these days. Few things come as any real surprise ultimately. Leopards and spots y'know...
Good luck to you anyway Rats. You will need to make some of your own though.
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>> Leopards and spots y'know.
Yeah I know, but it is frustrating, whether or not it is worth being frustrated.
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Can't you give him a job Hump selling shoes? He is a likeable lad with a good education,some training and he could be on his way.Rattle needs a bit of luck.
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>>Rattle needs a bit of luck.
I don't think that's the first step. I think luck most usually goes to those who get off the sofa.
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>>I think luck most usually goes to those who get off the sofa.
De acuerdo, as in "God helps those who help themselves".
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>> >>Rattle needs a bit of luck.
>>
>> I don't think that's the first step. I think luck most usually goes to those
>> who get off the sofa.
That's the way it usually works. But I know someone quite well, who didn't really follow through with anything until getting a fairly humdrum job, of necessity, at 26. Turned out to be quite good at it and was given a couple of upjars fairly quickly, and is now getting on with it.
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Back in 1990, I was a new graduate and they were really tough times. Three months passed and I'd had 12 interviews but nothing had come of it. I was well down in the dumps and even wondered if I'd end up pushing trolleys in Asda for the rest of my life. Then suddenly, I had an epiphany. I decided to changed my attitude, be positive, no more being a timid, gutless ex-student pussy but time to act like a real man - a complete d. head. I even devised my own 'interview pointers'. The next job for which I applied was in Mayfair and I was selected for an interview firstly with HR, followed by the Art directors. Those were two gruelling hours but I never deviated from my interview pointer list:
First of all, be polite.
Unless you feel like winding them up.
Calculate the salary you need including coke and hookers.
Keep it brief, get yourself down the pub asap.
Only make sensible suggestions. And silly ones too.
Focus. Think carefully which girls are do-able in that company and which aren't.
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. But who cares?
Lo and behold, an art director called me that very next day - you've got the job. And that Rattles, is the honest truth. Use my system Rattles, you know it will serve you well.
(And yes, at the Christmas party I drilled one of the HR girls that had interviewed me.)
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Rattle - PCs / MS Server this / that....too much competition driving down ££s
You need a change in outlook... shift up the food chain and look at getting some real skills outwith PC/Microsoft that can attract a good rate with possibly less competition.
Currently, my son is interviewing for DB skills (Oracle), UNIX administrator etc etc
These jobs are contractor based 12 mth contracts paying £350 / day upwards - somebody with 2/3 strings can get even more per day.
Post Graduate courses are available lasting 1 year. Evening classes at some Colleges - 12 weeks on a topic - mixing this with on-line training etc etc
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What FB says ^^
The real money is in SQL Server at the moment. If you still have a .ac.uk email address (maybe via the alumni site) you get get all of this stuff for free to practice on.
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You can get all the Microsoft software as evaluation copies anyway. It will run for 180 days without a problem but start complaining after that. You can extend it a bit. Or you could pay for a Technet subscription - even the basic one will get you all the software you could ever want access to. This doesn't get you enterprise editions for the like of Windows 7/8, Server, SQL etc.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 28 Jun 13 at 17:30
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Wouldn't be banking my future career on anything MS.
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Still quite good for underwear I gather.
:-)
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No, not at all, you don't want M&S in big letters on display round the waistband of your kecks when you bend over.
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I was thinking of ladies underwear. I do so try not to of course but there it is. We all have to be thinking of something I suppose.
:-)
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>> you don't want M&S in big letters on display round the waistband of your kecks
Why not? Even if it says Armani or Hugo Boss in gold thread embroidery, the strides are made by the same slaves in the same Bangladeshi death trap factories at the behest of the same Camorristi and n'drangheta enforcers.
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I'd rather have M&S on my waistband than those others, which would only serve to identify me as a counterfeit clothing mug or worse, a money waster!
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S&M works for me anytime...
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While we're on the subject of career changes....( or not ) here's a guy who must've got up one morning and thought "I know what I'll do ! "
I challenge anyone not to at least smile at his audacity - Pure dead brilliant ( as some of us still say ) !
www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-Op1Mng4oY&feature=player_embedded
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>> While we're on the subject of career changes....( or not ) here's a guy who
>> must've got up one morning and thought "I know what I'll do ! "
>>
>> I challenge anyone not to at least smile at his audacity - Pure dead brilliant
>> ( as some of us still say ) !
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-Op1Mng4oY&feature=player_embedded
>>
That's BBD, surely?
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Wonder if we will see him at the Edinburgh Tattoo ? :)
Doubt it :(
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>> Pure dead brilliant ( as some of us still say ) !
Now I've looked at it, I agree absolutely. The guy swings - one of the capabilities of bagpipes often ignored - and is as you say a street performer with real chutzpah. A pro. Terrific.
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>>you don't want M&S
Better than Clemens and August Brenninkmeijer's logo.
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>> No, not at all, you don't want M&S in big letters on display round the waistband of your kecks when you bend over.
>>
Give Humph a break.. He wouldn't wear M&S would he?
Not when he gets staff discount from Primark.....
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I like how Steve Balmer in charge of Microsoft is making so many stupid decisions. He's a liability and is doing real damage to Microsoft.
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I deal with a lot of large private and public sector IT departments, and I see no sign that Microsoft is going anywhere. When all is said and done, despite all the detractors, their stuff by and large works, is well supported, and it's easier and cheaper to recruit people who know it well enough to deploy, maintain and administrate it than it is any alternative.
Home users are increasingly deserting Microsoft, but that's never been their bread and butter.
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Away at the moment for the night (a family thing) but will reply properly tommorrow. For the couple of people that wanted to contact me I am happy for the mods to give them my email address.
Using my phone so is quite difficult to post any long reply
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Fri 28 Jun 13 at 23:14
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Original thread now edited and open again. Hopefully I've removed enough content for Rats to be happy for it to be shown again?
Vx.
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Cheers Dave.
And Rattle, if you don't want it to live for ever, then don't write it in the first place. You're not a child.
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First, just about all recruiters use it, because it's a massive database of pseudo CVs and they can use keyword search. Best advice is to use it, but remember it is akin to your CV and many of the same comments apply.
Like google, you you can optimise for search results. If you want to appear high in search results then you need a complete profile. Use a picture, but make it a good one, i.e. not bad one.
Add "skills" to your profile. Think of these as tags.
Build connections. You don't have to accept everybody and watch out for people who just want access to your connections; but generally, more is better. Again it helps your search profile.
Where you see "Trolley Collector at Tesco" or whatever, under somebody's name, that has automatically been populated from the fields below. You can edit that in your own profile to a brief "brand statement" that mirrors the short summary at the top of your CV. So instead of "Assistant Company Secretary at Blenkinsop's" it could read "Qualified solicitor and company secretary, expert in insurance, employment and property legislation, FTSE 100 experience"; instead of "Sales Trainer at Woolworths", "HR professional and insprirational coach with proven success in motivation" or whatever. Just try not to sound like an Apprentice candidate!
"Endorse" your connections' skills - they get a notification and endorse you which bumps up your search rating.
Review your profile regularly and add or change something. That triggers a notification, reminds people you are still there, and again ups your search results.
Oh, and recommendations help - solicit some, provided you are happy to repay the favour if asked. I don't think they are as powerful as they used to be but they help to complete your profile and earn you more 'points'.
People who have your CV will also look you up. You will tailor your CV for different purposes, so make sure your LinkedIn profile remains consistent with whatever you have in your CV, even if the emphasis is less directed.
This is all from memory and there will be more nuances now - a bit of digging should bring up lots more tips.
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I do have a linked in account bust never really used it, just seem to get hassle with spammers from it.
Just had a night away (I won't say where) but it gave me a chance to forget about things. Have been invited to a party this afternoon but I am not going as I am just not in the mood, will spend my time doing something productive instead.
I have made my mind to get rid of the office this month, and move as much as I can into a corner of a spare bedroom so I can carry on trading until I wind things down. For now I have also contacted a couple of customers about their website. If I can get a couple of website jobs that but me back into the black.
Just need to focus my mind now and work out what job I want to do, that is sort of why I was thinking of trying to get a job at the bottom end of the IT industry so I can decide where to go. Going back to university is something I am considering but only if it is something low risk, I feel like university was a mistake already. When I was 16 I was offered a job for a small RAID company. I turned it down as I wanted to go college and study electronics. I always wondered what might have been, that company was taken over by a little firm called SUN and the people that work there are all driving round in Porches now.
I am not ruling out being self employed if I can get good at offering a service where people will pay good money for but for now just applying for jobs and will see what happens.
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Revive the LinkedIn (never had a spam problem) and use the networking. I appreciate the point made by No FM2R re being defeatist on applying for advertised jobs, but most people do far better with networking.
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>> Revive the LinkedIn (never had a spam problem) and use the networking. I appreciate the
>> point made by No FM2R re being defeatist on applying for advertised jobs, but most
>> people do far better with networking.
>>
I have had no direct spam from linkedin, but I do get requests from people to join my network who are clearly just recruitment agents looking for leads, although when you are actively looking then that may not be a bad thing
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You are privileged to have a university education Rattle.How can you say that was a mistake?
Have more believe in yourself Rattle and take live by the scruff of the neck.
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I will have to pay for that though when I earn enough (hopefully one day I will!). At the time I was very proud but ten years later I suppose it is just a distant memory but hopefully it won't have all been for nothing in the long term.
Need to decide now if I want to stay in the IT industry or start from scratch with something new. In the meantime I will apply for any general job I can get but still do the business part time.
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the people that work>> there are all driving round in Porches now.
>>
What like this, you mean?
tinyurl.com/pcz7594
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...or this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-22619361
Looking at that photo a few weeks on, I wonder why no-one commented at the time about the two-headed staff member by the door. I mean, even in East Anglia that must be a little unusual.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Sun 30 Jun 13 at 21:55
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Most people that worked for Sun at its height got made redundant.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 30 Jun 13 at 17:52
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Sun paid so much for the company the employees all got a share of the sale. Some truly clever chaps worked there, one man did all the firmware programming while the other designed all the PCBs.
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My niece who came to visit us about a month ago with her husband.He is a computer programmer.Very timid quet chap about six foot five.He told me salary over 50 grand a year.Not bad for a day job,something for you Rattle.
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Sounds like a bit of a cop out but in 2000 I realised I was probably earning enough and managing to work from close to home a lot (in IT). So didn't push for more senior roles. I could be on at least £20k pa more if I'd wanted and probably still could. And there'd be a downside.
So I manage to be mostly based in NW (work from home or Manchester office) and get similar money as Dutchie says (plus bonuses) and a car of my choice. Why Rattle has not gone down this route I have no idea! He sounds a nice and capable chap. By now he should and could easily be earning over £30k pa plus a company car.
Graduates where I started got around £14k but now it's over £25k starting salary which sounds about right.
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All probably out of work now. As are a lot of original Sun Microsystems employees. ORACLE as I hope you realise bought it... and the hardware side of Oracle is doing as well as SUN before they bought it.
I hope the people you reference got cash for the sale or offloaded share options a long time ago.
Sounds like a cottage type IT outfit to me... those days are long gone.
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I should have got out of business a long time ago, but my job has been secure so I suppose that is the only reason I stuck it at for so long but I should have pushed myself earlier but that is another matter.
The company in question was a PLC but it only had about 10 employees. I don't think they invented RAID but they were one of the first people to offer the solutions. I am talking about 1998 here, and I was amazed how big the 4GB hard drives were!
Of course Sun had an office just round the corner from the place I worked for as well, and they were a big supplier to Sun before the were bought out. Their equipment was often branded Sun.
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I was in the IT scene that was happening in Cambridge in the 80s and 90s. At the company I was working for we had a couple of secretaries/receptionists - as in non-IT bods - hop over to some little startup Acorn spin off company call ARM, and in those days they handed out shares on joining to all and sundry. I didn't follow them.
In comparison to me, they are now Croesus like.
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Rattle, IT has changed, many roles have become commodities these days - which means lower pay and worse conditions. The golden rule is to pick something customer-facing that cannot be off-shored.
Hardware engineers enjoy a niche, there is a trend towards mere part substitution but skilled roles remain. On the less skilled (but fun for a while) side, I've worked on projects employing people in white vans to deploy (say) Point of Sale rollouts, you'd get to travel I guess but not sure what job satisfaction or career path it would ultimately provide.
In software, the trend is for customer facing architects and designers i.e. people with end to end hybrid business/IT skills to provide leadership and not backroom coders who can be (are mostly) in Eastern Europe/India/China or wherever.
Have you thought of travelling - there is demand for skilled IT people in other parts of the world, mainly to train locals, you can earn decent money and it will change your life (I admit to something of a bias here).
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>>Have you thought of travelling - there is demand for skilled IT people in other parts of the world, mainly to train locals, you can earn decent money and it will change your life (I admit to something of a bias here)
To somewhere like:
www.expatforum.com/expats/cyprus-expat-forum-expats-living-cyprus/161512-coming-cyprus.html
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Made a big decision today - Woodster
