Am I right in thinking the Mail has left a rather large and tantalising clue as to the identity of one of the participants on it's online article, or have I just got a suspicious mind?
No names as the identities cannot be published for legal reasons, whatever they might be.
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I read it and can't see any clues.
Sam seems to feature quite a bit in the twitterati.
Any help for the blind RR?
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So the MoS launches an exclusive about an affair at the heart of Government with the ability to knock policy off track. But not a cabinet minister.
Then they have a second story 'internet goes wild with rumours"!!!!!
If it has to be linked with policy it could be gay marriage, press freedom, etc There are so many possibilities!
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Do we really give a Sheet?
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"Do we really give a Sheet?"
Well.......mmmm......... aren't they supposed to be concentrating on running the country?
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>> "Do we really give a Sheet?"
>>
>> Well.......mmmm......... aren't they supposed to be concentrating on running the country?
Its not supposed to be a cabinet minister, so no they are not supposed to be running the country.
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"Its not supposed to be a cabinet minister, so no they are not supposed to be running the country."
According to the paper, Cameron is 'holding crisis talks'. I thought he had something to do with running the country ......... or, maybe not? Sounds like a bit of a distraction to me.
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they can multitask you know, despite being blokes.
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>> Its not supposed to be a cabinet minister, so no they are not supposed to
>> be running the country.
Junior Ministers do their bit too Zeddo.
Currie and Major were both in that role at DHSS while knocking each other off.
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A junior minister at the DHSS is not "running the country" The civil servants are "running the country"
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>> >> Its not supposed to be a cabinet minister, so no they are not supposed
>> to
>> >> be running the country.
>>
>> Junior Ministers do their bit too Zeddo.
>>
>> Currie and Major were both in that role at DHSS while knocking each other off.
>>
Currie wasn't an absolute dog at that time!
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>> Currie wasn't an absolute dog at that time!
Quite right Rastaman. She wasn't pretty, but she had what the French call 'chien'.
:o}
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Messages on other sites (Robin - see Patrick Stevens on cyclechat) also suggest there are clues for those good at cryptic crosswords or similar.
No real interest in the prurient aspects but the Tory party's capacity for self flagellation of sex/morality is good for a laugh.
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>> Messages on other sites (Robin - see Patrick Stevens on cyclechat) also suggest there are
>> clues for those good at cryptic crosswords or similar.
>>
>> No real interest in the prurient aspects but the Tory party's capacity for self flagellation
>> of sex/morality is good for a laugh.
Yeah, and the swivelled eye loonies have the balls to moan about gay marriage and morality while screwing anything vaguely warm with a pulse.
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Hover over the Daily Mail page image here: order-order.com/ and the filename appears to have two sets of initials.
I'm not repeating them here, but can think of two people for the first set and one for the second.
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I thought Alan Clarke passed away a few years ago.
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>> >> Messages on other sites (Robin - see Patrick Stevens on cyclechat) also suggest there
>> are
>> >> clues for those good at cryptic crosswords or similar.
>> >>
>> >> No real interest in the prurient aspects but the Tory party's capacity for self
>> flagellation
>> >> of sex/morality is good for a laugh.
>>
>> Yeah, and the swivelled eye loonies have the balls to moan about gay marriage and
>> morality while screwing anything vaguely warm with a pulse.
Not necessarily: Sir Jimmy was one of the "in" crowd!
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I'm guessing either some married man has been taking it up the gary, or being tied up with womens' tights and having an orange stuffed in their mouth.
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...all available on tea-time telly in Sweden.
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You can get them in the Ikea Restaurant, - WANKA the orange.
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Can't say I'm all that curious. Doubtless in the end broad enough hints will be dropped in the media for me to twig... or not as the case may be.
My comic which sponsors the Hay Festival ran a piece yesterday about a paper by the author John Le Carré. Not a huge favourite of mine as a writer but usually readable and certainly knows a thing or two about this and that.
The comic straplined the piece with the claim that Le Carré was 'warning' us against the fate of being run by a public school, Oxbridge elite. But that wasn't really what the piece said at all: Le Carré like most of the population is well used to that, and in his case one could say comfortable with it.
What he was really warning against was the craven attitude adopted by successive British governments of all colours to the wishes, however depraved and misconceived, of the United States, and the embarrassing pickle that has got us into.
But I guess the weirdo Barclay twins weren't too keen on that and came on heavy with the hacks.
Snigger.... or perhaps the hacks did it themselves to slip the piece past them. If so, heads could roll.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 3 Jun 13 at 19:20
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>> Any help for the blind RR?
>>
A picture is worth a thousand words ;-)
Last edited by: Robin Regal on Mon 3 Jun 13 at 22:35
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Two people who are not married to each other may be having what Private Eye used to call "Ugandan Discussions" = so what? This is in no way news or interesting.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 6 Jun 13 at 01:09
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>> Two people who are not married to each other may be having what Private Eye
>> used to call "Ugandan Discussions" = so what? This is in no way news
>> or interesting.
Unless of course questions of pillow talk arise...................
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 6 Jun 13 at 01:09
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I seem to remember back in the sixties a scandal involving two expeditions to East Africa, unknown to each other, one the soviet attache, the other a government minister in whom the Prime Minister had complete confidence.
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Origin of Ugandan Affairs = The term originally referred to an incident at a party hosted by journalist Neal Ascherson and his first wife, at which fellow journalist Mary Kenny had a "meaningful confrontation" with a former cabinet minister in the government of Milton Obote, later claiming that they were "upstairs discussing Uganda".
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Don't suppose you have the name of the former Obote minister Mellers?
Back in the day came across Obote and a few of his men, knew one of them as a fellow hack for some years. Discussed Uganda with them all too (but only in the literal sense). Didn't always leave me any wiser though. That was a hell of a place for labyrinthine Renaissance-Italy politics complete with murders and assassinations. You had to have a very sharp ear for the unsaid, and I haven't really got one.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 4 Jun 13 at 15:16
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No information here I am afraid AC. It seems that many members of Obote's 1971 cabinet were purged by Amin, by the end of 1973 which is when the Discussions are alleged to have occurred - names are nor mentioned.
Last edited by: Meldrew on Tue 4 Jun 13 at 16:21
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>> many members of Obote's 1971 cabinet were purged by Amin, by the end of 1973
Six or seven years before my East Africa time... with Amin in power most of that time.
Obote was very down on Amin once the Tanzanians had got rid of him, but most other Ugandans blamed Obote squarely for the whole Amin disaster. It was Obote who promoted him to general (he was an NCO really) to scare Obote's political rivals or kill them if necessary. Amin then got ideas - encouraged by the British among others - and overthrew Obote.
Amin was a clown and utter brute, but quite able in a way. Terrible fellow.
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The names are now out! (Mods: Can I post a link?)
No wonder David Cameron is in a panic.
Probable undue influence by one party and and poor judgement in taking that persons advice may well be the straw too much for the PM's back!
Order in the six-pack and popcorn and enjoy the show!
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>> The names are now out! (Mods: Can I post a link?)
Why post a link on here? Anyone interested can find the details elsewhere. So don't post any information here please. Thanks.
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Are you a moderator ? Just asking.
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>> don't post any information here please. Thanks.
Do you speak for our leaders rtj? Just curious. I must say that a website without any information in it would be a bleak place indeed. Should we all worry about giving away too much? Damn! I was toying with the idea of starting a thread on sexually transmitted diseases, calling on a number of lurid and upsetting experiences. But you've made me change my mind. Perhaps they will thank you for it, who knows?
Of course I won't bother to look the latest gossip up anywhere else on line. I can wait for the comic tomorrow or the day after, or the telly, or just for all the nudge nudge wink wink to die down. But I wouldn't have minded reading who Rastaman thought was involved. News is a strange unending non-nutritious greedy addiction. Must be terrible not to have it... a bit like all the other addictions really.
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. But I wouldn't have
>> minded reading who Rastaman thought was involved. >>
Just for you, AC :- tomwinnifrith.com/articles/3486/
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>>Order in the six-pack and popcorn and enjoy the show!
And that's really the sort of thing that you enjoy?
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Oh, yes!
Watching our leaders squirm does appeal!
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Says someone who has recently actively sought office and power. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on such matters if (heaven forbid) the boot's ever on the other foot.
But I'm sure you, and all UKIP candidates, have nothing to hide, Roger.
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 5 Jun 13 at 09:42
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you think this is squirming material?
sad git.
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"you think this is squirming material?"
Depends which rumour you have in mind ;-)
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>> you think this is squirming material?
>>
>>
>> sad git.
Yes - it is as it calls into question the judgement of actions of a holder of high public office.
At a basic human level it matters not a jot who is bonking who - unless it reflects on possible decisions at this level.
Last edited by: Roger on Wed 5 Jun 13 at 11:32
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>> >> you think this is squirming material?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> sad git.
>> Yes - it is as it calls into question the judgement of actions of a
>> holder of high public office.
No it doesn't. You are the only sad git making a pathetic noise about it. Scraping up dead end material to make your case.
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>> Yes - it is as it calls into question the judgement of actions of a
>> holder of high public office.
>> At a basic human level it matters not a jot who is bonking who -
>> unless it reflects on possible decisions at this level.
Assuming links are a correct,,,,
If you're talking about the judgement of bonker and bonkee then I think you're on a hiding to nothing. It does however cast doubt on Cameron's judgement, already questioned, in appointing Coulson apparently on RB's reccomendation.
If he'd known they were having an affair then he's in trouble given the background to phoneacking emerging before Coulson's appointment.
If he didn't know and affair was kept from him then he ought to have found out anyway. Very few couples manage to carry on leaving others utterly oblivious never mind someone with the resources of Number 10 at his fingertips.
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>> If you're talking about the judgement of bonker and bonkee then I think you're on
>> a hiding to nothing. It does however cast doubt on Cameron's judgement, already questioned, in
>> appointing Coulson apparently on RB's reccomendation.
Its an excellent idea to appoint a press advisor who is bonking a leading fleet street editor. Had the phone hacking scandal not dumped her ass on the street Cameroon could have been having great press now.
As it is the press are gunning for anyone (thats opposition and government) who wants to cut their hands off after the lawson report
Now is not the time to believe one damn thing that any press source says about any government, coalition or opposition target.
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Having read who it is, I could not give a tinker's cuss.
After all Boris Johnson - a politician - has had several affairs whilst married. and still is a political force to be reckoned with.
It's absolute BS.
Show that when the old duffers complain the Tories are "destroying marriage" by allowing gay marriage, they are either 1> out of touch and ignorant or 2> hypocrites. Since they if they were pro marriage BoJo would be the target of their ire.
Storm in a Westminster tea cup...
Meanwhile our elected Members take bribes and still remain MPs. Ditto the unelected ones.
I know which is scandalous and what is tittle tattle.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 6 Jun 13 at 01:09
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Grateful though I am to Roger for obligingly blowing the whistle, I must confess to a certain disappointment. I was hoping for at least a same-sex marriage proposal between a cabinet minister and a senior royal.
Slap and tickle between a couple of louche hacks is most unlikely to bring the government down.
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Once I found out it was Princess Merida and some bloke my interest waned... thought it was going to be someone much more exciting in line with the early Guido Fawkes blog comments.
Sorry for her husband for a moment until I remembered he pinched Francome's lovely wife Miriam years ago. What comes around and all that... but then remembered Francome in turn had pinched Trainer Kim Baileys lovely wife.
Perhaps they all deserve each other.
PS all of the above waffle no interest to non-racing folks!
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~Every now and again I worry a little bit about UKIP; I don't want them running the country, and it bothers me that they might continue to fool people and gain more power.
Then Roger expresses his views and I can't help but feel there's nothing to worry about after all. With supporters like that.....
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With opponents like you and Zero, I'm not worried!
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And neither should you be, because we're not competing for any part of your world.
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>> And neither should you be, because we're not competing for any part of your world.
If you mean Great Britain - you certainly are not.
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>> If you mean Great Britain - you certainly are not.
And likewise I think you are confusing Great Britain with myopic England.
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>> >> If you mean Great Britain - you certainly are not.
>>
>> And likewise I think you are confusing Great Britain with myopic England.
>>
tinyurl.com/luqcrjp
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>> >> >> If you mean Great Britain - you certainly are not.
>> >>
>> >> And likewise I think you are confusing Great Britain with myopic England.
>> >>
>>
>> tinyurl.com/luqcrjp
The link is to a Telegraph report suggesting support for Scots independence is ebbing. It's a telegraph report and should be read with appropriate caution. The suggestion that Cameron has lobbed a grenade into Holyrood and is now standing back is not entirely true. There's a lot of background briefing going on and Cabinet Office have circulated reams of guidance on subject to the Civil Service and Members of cross border public bodies.
Whatever happens with devolution Scots politics will be quite distinct from those of England and particularly the south. The preferred option remains 'Devo Max' which of course is not on offer - at least not formally. Little if any hope that Scottish Tories will resurge or that UKIP will gain any sort of foothold north of the border.
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>> >> tinyurl.com/luqcrjp
>>
>> It's a telegraph report and should be read with appropriate caution.
>>
>>
Too true.
The Telegraph is almost as biased as the Guardian these days.
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A late friend of mine long nurtured a plan to write a brisk book on how to read a newspaper. Don't think he got round to it though.
It isn't just newspapers - all of them without exception - that have to be approached sidelong and scrutinized from every angle. It's any medium at all, radio, TV, official government announcements, anything.
We have to count ourselves lucky that we have so many sources of variously inaccurate and biased information. The media in countries run by tyrannies or despotisms are truly surreal. Pure Alice in Wonderland, and so severe and po-faced with it.
Basically people are just liars and toerags. All except thee and me of course.
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>> Basically people are just liars and toerags. All except thee and me of course.
And you're not so sure about me, right?
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>> not so sure about me, right?
Not a bit of it lad... it's mesen I sometimes have doubts about in me darker moments like...
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.
Last edited by: AnotherJohnH on Fri 7 Jun 13 at 19:20
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>> ' . '
Your concision leaves me speechless with admiration AJH. Are you trying to show me up as a blatherer?
:o}
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No opinion poll in Scotland, to my knowledge, has ever shown 50%+ in favour of independence.
I'm still a fence-sitter on the topic as I don't think it would make a huge difference to the nation (or the rest of the UK) one way or another, although I can't see the guys in the Borders being too keen.
It's a socio-political argument, rather than economic in my mind, and I just don't care.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2_Yi-1Ryf4
First 8 seconds sums it up.
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>> It's a socio-political argument, rather than economic in my mind, and I just don't care.
So you will abstain?
I trust the polls will be open for at least an hour after pub closing time to ensure a warm-hearted, impulsive, representative vote. Anything could happen!
Or has it all happened already? Can't say I find it totally absorbing either really. But it's still going to be indicative of the direction being taken by the much-threatened old style Nation State. Perhaps anyway. This global carp feels a bit threatening to people like us and the French and Germans. Will our internal empires rally to the nation state cause or will they insist on balkanizing us agonizingly bit by bit and letting the damn globe suck our blood?
Only time will tell. Meanwhile Lygonos, I feel you should put on your voting boots and nip down there unless pressing duties retain you elsewhere...
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I could always vote "Yes", safe in the knowledge if Scotland became a 3rd world country I could simply move to England, Australia or Canada with my skill set.
Much in the same way I could move if the UK goes toiletward with respect to GP-dom.
Already a bit concerned with the outflow of good medics towards Australia.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 7 Jun 13 at 23:51
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Scotland (and the UK come to that) could go right down the toilet like that Chinese baby and still not be third world. Might be worse than third world, but would still be different.
That baby by the way will need a damn good psychoanalyst when it grows up. A symmetrical double birth trauma, the second one sort of in reverse... no one should imagine it won't remember in some offcentre fashion.
Let's hope though that nothing dramatically cloacal will occur and things will bumble unevenly along as usual. My sister and her other half, both doctors, both trained in Edinburgh, left soon after graduation to be virtuous in Africa, moved on to the Chatham Islands and for decades now have been established in New Zealand. They love it there, and it's certainly very nice, with penguins and so on. Seems a bit far away to me though. Too peaceful somehow if that doesn't seem too picky.
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>> My sister and her other half, both doctors, both trained in Edinburgh, left soon after graduation to be virtuous in Africa, moved on to the Chatham Islands and for decades now have been established in New Zealand.
The flip-side of immigration: 2 medics, trained to the tune of around £250k each in today's money, then going abroad.
The flip-flip side is we absorbed a bunch of Asian doctors not trained at our expense especially in the 70s.
Currently I think it's going back to 'brain drain' status.
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>> flip-side of immigration: 2 medics, trained to the tune of around £250k each in today's money, then going abroad.
I note you stop short, just, of moral disapproval. You are an honest cat Lygonos.
The teams that did my two urgent operations came from everywhere under the sun. The supremo in the second case was a classy Pakistani or Indian surgeon, but all sorts of nurses and such including proper mainland Chinese. Never a moment's anxiety apart from the obvious.
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>> The teams that did my two urgent operations came from everywhere under the sun. The
>> supremo in the second case was a classy Pakistani or Indian surgeon, but all sorts
>> of nurses and such including proper mainland Chinese. Never a moment's anxiety apart from the
>> obvious.
>>
>>
Similar experience here, medicine seems to be an international game. My life was saved by a Pakistani surgeon (reputedly one of the best in his field) who had just returned from delivering a lecture in the USA, and asked me if it was OK for a South African professor of surgery assist on my procedure as a trainee.
I never have a problem with medical students using me as a training aid, (as they have on several occasions), one of them may mend me in the future.
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>>I note you stop short, just, of moral disapproval
Not really a moral point, more one of economic good sense.
If pay and/or conditions became bad enough when compared to elsewhere I'd consider moving away, but I'm very proud of what the NHS has done and what it can still offer when compared to other systems around the world.
Push people's goodwill too far and you get the bare minimum, which I feel is significantly less than is currently supplied.
Politician's don't care, as No FM2R regularly states: they are making decisions that they believe in and also that they believe will keep them in office/a job.
Managing health care is a very complex issue, and once targets become the be-all and end-all of performance, management understandably often neglect some areas to hit targets elsewhere - eg. get more A&E consultants to hit the '4 hour target' when you will be waiting 6 months to see a rheumatologist with disabling arthritis - not a target thus not a priority.
I don't believe giving GPs the reins will make a huge difference either, but it certainly gives the govt of the day a new scapegoat to point at when things go mams-up.
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I live in a country with pretty much no social healthcare. That's ok for me, because I and the family, are insured.
However, when you see the hardship that people go through because of the cost of healthcare one cannot help but think that however awful the NHS is, the alternative is really ugly.
My grandmother-in-law couldn't get insurance because of long term health issues. Her last month cost £3,000 per day. And the alternative public hospital was not somewhere you'd probably let your dog stay.
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Here's a typical page of GP income in Australia - combination of Medicare and direct payment.
austmedics.com/salaries/
I am wary of any system that pays directly for doing something as there are plenty of well-meaning (and also frankly dishonest) guys out there who will be tempted to increase their income doing excessive work.
£200-300k pa does seem tempting ;-)
edit: I see 38 patients per day so it's not as if the Ozzie docs are working flat out.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 10 Jun 13 at 14:44
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Don't overlook the cost of this bit "Most positions are as contractors. As a contractor you are responsible for your holiday and sick pay and pension arrangements."
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>>Don't overlook the cost of this bit
I am already a contractor, responsible for sick-pay and holidays.
As for pension we've had that recently ;-)
(I pay about 25% of my gross NHS income into the NHS pension scheme as both employee and employer)
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>> above waffle no interest to non-racing folks!
Today's comic ran a photo of R Brooks looking unusually blowsy with her husband Charlie. No mention of the Coulson allegation.
Who is this Tom Winfrith? He calls the PM Call me Dave, like Brillo Pad Neil who one has at least heard of. But of course all these commentators, you, me, Private Eye, almost everyone coming up with cheeky stuff and allegations, are no more than a cloud of gnats to those in office. They really do have more important things to worry about, God help them.
Not that a satirical population and a heavy accretion of sleazy scandals doesn't have an exhausting side of course. In the end they can be pulled down and some perhaps torn to pieces. But there are others where they came from, never fear.
'Last days of the McMillan government' indeed. What do they know.
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Im not interestent in sleazy scandals.R Brooks got a nice pay off from the Murdochs I believe.
Not guilty My Lord and they will get away with any wrongdoing.Just a sideline Bilderberberg meeting in Watford.Gut feeling just a word Mr Cameron no referendum on the EU we are here to tell you.>;)
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Tory "Devastating Affair" Scandal - smokie
