My wife has one. I think its this one;
www.amazon.co.uk/Kenwood-Patissier-MX275-Mixer-Litre/dp/B000779US4
It was working fine last time it was used (which was in the UK).
She went to use it yesterday and got a shock from it. I didn't think it was much until I tested it and the case has got the full 220v through it.
It has a UK plug, which she is using with an adapter to plug it into the Chile supply. The first thing to note is that the adapter is two-pin, and thus has no earth where as the UK 3 pin most certainly does.
These things are not available here, and in any case cost so much money I'm not going to the shops without a fight.
Is the issue possibly being caused simply by the lack of earth?
Is there likely to be another issue. When I take it apart am I looking for something simply like a faulty wire or connection, or is there another frequent cause?
I have meters and testers, and I'm assuming that there's just a 220/240v motor in there with some kind of variable controls.
|
>> Is the issue possibly being caused simply by the lack of earth?
No, the lack of earth means your wife is no longer protected from getting a shock when it goes wrong, as she found out. Under certain circumstances it could have been fatal. (tho i have had numerous shocks and UK mains has not killed me yet)
>> Is there likely to be another issue. When I take it apart am I looking
>> for something simply like a faulty wire or connection, or is there another frequent cause?
In effect you are looking at a connection from live or neutral to the case or the outside of any component where there shouldn't be one, possibly where the cord enters the appliance is a favourite - the wiggle test will find that one.
>> I have meters and testers, and I'm assuming that there's just a 220/240v motor in
>> there with some kind of variable controls.
yup. pretty simple.
|
|
Even when you think you've fixed it I'd still get her to test it first before you go switching it on yourself. Tell her to wear her wellies though. Only fair.
|
|
Yeah, everyone goes for the newer more powerful K-Mix.
|
>> Bin it.
Not before checking the lead wire as suggested by Zero. The outside of the mixer is live and there has to be a reason for that.
It's possible the 13amp plug is wired incorrectly (i.e. live wire to neutral terminal and vice versa). They often are. I don't see why that should cause a problem, but it just might be able to. It's also possible that that plug, or the two-pin adaptor, is faulty. They sometimes are. If the original lead cable appears frayed or kinked, it's a good idea to replace it. It's a hassle but what can you do?
|
>> It's possible the 13amp plug is wired incorrectly (i.e. live wire to neutral terminal and
>> vice versa). They often are. I don't see why that should cause a problem, but
>> it just might be able to. It's also possible that that plug, or the two-pin
>> adaptor, is faulty. They sometimes are. If the original lead cable appears frayed or kinked,
>> it's a good idea to replace it. It's a hassle but what can you do?
It certainly would. The mains voltage could still be leaking to the appliance from the unfused side.
In some countries (France is one IIRC, no idea re Chile) they don't distinguish polarity on mains supplies at all. It's a problem in UK if only the "live" side is fused or protected, and the wires are transposed, because there can still be mains voltage to the appliance when the fuse has blown or the breaker tripped. When there is a twin pole circuit breaker it doesn't matter.
E&OE. I don't do electrics.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 20 May 13 at 20:02
|
>> Even when you think you've fixed it I'd still get her to test it first
>> before you go switching it on yourself. Tell her to wear her wellies though. Only
>> fair.
I'd ask her to test it, barefoot in a bowl of water, one hand on the radiator.
|
>>I'd ask her to test it, barefoot in a bowl of water, one hand on the radiator.
This was my thought, and to be fair my wife only suggested one amendment.
Care to guess where she suggested her hand should be?
Right, off for a bit of dismantling.
|
Ok, dismantled. No damaged wires or dodgy connections obvious. In fact, everything looks in remarkably good order.
Suggestions?
|
|
Maybe it was a static voltage? I wouldn't use it though. I assume there are earthed sockets in Chile and you could at least use an earthed appliance correctly?
|
>> Ok, dismantled. No damaged wires or dodgy connections obvious. In fact, everything looks in remarkably
>> good order.
>>
>> Suggestions?
>>
Clk Sec has covered that one.
|
Have you checked resistance, case to live and case to neutral while wire wiggling? I'd be zapping it with a megger at ths point.
No On second thoughts, its shocked her once, I would be checking out Amazon Chile for a K-mix
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 20 May 13 at 20:47
|
Are there any 'interference supressor' capacitors connect to earth (frame) from the input wires?
see diagram tinyurl.com/NFM2R-death-plot
loss of earth could result in a significant current flow thro the wife.
|
|
Another possibility: the speed controller which seems to be in a slot on the side of the mixer would have a plastic knob but a steel shaft. If that has got a bit bent and is touching the outer casing of the mixer it could be the cause.
|
|
Why the K-Mix, Z? I've not used one but my cynical antennae tell me it's a fashion-first answer to all the product-placed KitchenAid mixers in TV programmes. (Blumenthal uses a Chef, though.) The Chef's long-established range of attachments would pull me that way if I had to replace the 40-year-old one I already have - unless you know something I don't.
|
>> Why the K-Mix, Z?
Wasnt a recommendation, merely a shorter way of saying "buy a new kenwood mixer"
Meself I have a Bosch MUM46A1GB
|
|
I don't think we have one any more. My son is old enough to eat solid food and we both still have all our own teeth.
|
Mmmm, this might be beyond me. I am more than happy to recommission it providing I can find and resolve an issue - which right now I can't.
There seems to be no intentional connection between the casing and the electrics, but obviously there is an unintentional one.
The live base/case seems to be unshakable at present. I think I will sleep on the issue and try again tomorrow.
Thanks for your thoughts so far (except for Bin it", which might make sense, but is defeatist and I am a boy and thus fundamentally believe that if I poke and bang something enough it will get fixed).
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 20 May 13 at 22:07
|
Yeah, I tried the ' poke and bang ' thing years ago..........now I'm well fixed !
Ted
|
|
yeah jim fixed it for him.
|
>> There seems to be no intentional connection between the casing and the electrics, but obviously there is an unintentional one.
A motor winding gone down, or causing a direct short to earth?
|
>> Why the K-Mix, Z? I've not used one but my cynical antennae tell me it's
>> a fashion-first answer to all the product-placed KitchenAid mixers in TV programmes. (Blumenthal uses a
>> Chef, though.) The Chef's long-established range of attachments would pull me that way if I
>> had to replace the 40-year-old one I already have - unless you know something I
>> don't.
Replaced the Kenwood that we had as a wedding present in 1977 with this (Chef)
in January -
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006WYVF98
I mix up my bread with it before thumping it around therapeutically.
It seems to have gone up £58 since I bought it. It's effective.
It did once throw itself bodily off the worktop when about 1.6kg of dough went unbalanced. I don't leave it unattended now.
Pat will be chortling again.
|
*sigh*
It's morphed into a girlie forum again!
Pat
|
Think of it as a power tool, Pat.
My previous Chef - of similar vintage - also survived a waltz off the counter (although Mrs Beest's foot might not have done had it landed six inches to the left.) It met its end when I borrowed a mincer attachment with no instructions and inserted one part back to front; the resulting jam caused the motor housing to tear itself apart.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Tue 21 May 13 at 07:04
|
Why would you want to mix things up?
I can make shepherds pie..I make mince and mash and if you want the mash on the mince you can put it there on the plate.
Life really is too short and anyway, that's what restaurants are for.
Pat
|
>> Why would you want to mix things up?
>>
>> I can make shepherds pie..I make mince and mash and if you want the mash
>> on the mince you can put it there on the plate.
We don't need gastronomic advice from Deliverance country. We know what you lot do with your bacon.
|
See that long queue of hungry C4Pers outside your kitchen, Pat?
No, nor do I.
|
Squeal like a pig, boy !
You will after dining Chez Pat !
Ted
|
Scenes outside Morrisons in March, Cambridgeshire.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=myhnAZFR1po
|
>> Scenes outside Morrisons
Heh heh... well done Zero... I am encouraging my violin-playing granddaughter to play bluegrass fiddle along those lines...
That movie was on the box last night, but I didn't watch it. It's sinister and slightly silly. Of course I've seen it at least twice.
|
>> It has a UK plug, which she is using with an adapter to plug it into the Chile supply.
>> The first thing to note is that the adapter is two-pin,
>> and thus has no earth where as the UK 3 pin most certainly does.
Are you sure you don't have any "L-plug" sockets in the kitchen?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:L_plug.jpg
If so, put a proper local 3 pin plug on the death trap mixer, as it is designed to have an earth.
If the ELCB (assuming you have one) trips, replace the mixer.
|
|
Might be a good idea to make sure the life insurance is up to date too.
|
Mark,
Have you investigated the three to two pin adapter?
Personaly though I'd be very chary indeed of using an appliance with an earth lead on a two pin supply still less one where live and neutral are not differentiated.
|
I'd test it properly with my mini meggar!
The fact the earth rises to mains voltage certainly suggests it needs taken apart and either mended or chucked as dangerous. However, I've known unconnected earth pins/connections rise in potential owing to a capacitor.
|
If you only have 2-pin plugs then you should have an earth leakage circuit breaker attached to the mains supply. Otherwise your house is a death-trap. (Or just a bit old fashioned, and our parents all lived to tell the tale...)
If not, go and spend a fiver on one, and use it for your future testing of this machine. If it was only a static shock (possible) then you haven't a problem.
Presumably you have put one end of your circuit tester on the metal case, and the other end on the live pin of the plug, to prove you have a problem.
Then repeat the process using your 3-pin to 2-pin adapter as well.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Tue 21 May 13 at 17:52
|
Kenwood Food Mixer - Zero
