***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 5 *****
Continuing discussion.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 7 May 13 at 00:52
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Today legendary trader Jim Sinclair told King World News that today is a day of financial infamy as Cyprus depositors are flushed
Eric King: “Jim, we now know the answer to the ‘Cyprus Solution.’”
Sinclair: “Yes, Cyprus depositors have now been flushed. The Bank of Cyprus, the island’s largest bank said it has converted 37.5% of deposits exceeding 100,000 euros into a Class A share, with an additional 22.5% held as a buffer for possible conversion in the future.
Another 30% will be temporarily frozen and held as a deposit. So the amount of money that has been taken from the Cyprus depositors is in all practicality almost their entire accounts. Major depositors funds have now been taken in grand style.
Depositors everywhere are now defined as lenders to the banks. Today is a day of financial infamy. History will see this event as serious as the flushing of Lehman Brothers....
So above 100,000 euro's you lose 90% (could be funds from a house sale, a mortgage approval or an amount set aside to fund your retirement )
"The "Cyprus solution" sound a bit like the "Final solution"
There is a 'D' notice on the MSM (mainstream social media) to stop the sheeple hearing about this theft of peoples savings.
Ireland next, then who ?
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Don't worry, Ed's got the answer.
Increase borrowing to fund a VAT cut.
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>> There is a 'D' notice on the MSM (mainstream social media) to stop the sheeple
>> hearing about this theft of peoples savings.
>>
I know there used to be D notices to warn 'Fleet St' off dangerous ground wher security of the realm was at issue.
Can somebody explain the concept of a D notice on 'MSM'?
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Jim Sinclair is a legend in his own mind. "Legendary" is a word he uses about himself and asks that others use about him.
You do yourself no favours placing his stuff up on anything other than a tabloid wall.
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Stolen from Wiki
In the UK the original D-Notice system was introduced in 1912 and run as a voluntary system by a joint committee headed by an Assistant Secretary of the War Office and a representative of the Press Association.
Any D-Notices or DA-notices are only advisory requests so are not legally enforceable and hence news editors can choose not to abide by them. However, they are generally complied with by the media.[1]
In 1971, all existing D-Notices were cancelled and replaced by standing D-Notices, which gave general guidance on what could be published and what could not, and what would require further advice from the secretary of the Defence, Press and Broadcasting Advisory Committee (DPBAC).
In 1993, the notices were renamed DA-Notices.
As of 2008, there are five standing DA-Notices:[2]
DA-Notice 01: Military Operations, Plans & Capabilities
DA-Notice 02: Nuclear and Non-Nuclear Weapons and Equipment
DA-Notice 03: Ciphers and Secure Communications
DA-Notice 04: Sensitive Installations and Home Addresses
DA-Notice 05: United Kingdom Security & Intelligence Special Services
On 8 April 2009, the Committee issued a DA-Notice in relation to sensitive anti-terror documents photographed when Assistant-Commissioner Bob Quick arrived at Downing Street for talks about current intelligence.[3]
On 25 November 2010, the Committee issued a note to editors drawing attention to standing DA-Notices 1 and 5 in relation to sensitive documents expected to be imminently released on the website WikiLeaks.[4][5][6]
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Thanks Z that enlarges on the 'keeping Fleet St off touchy stuff' line I had in mind.
I guess Sinclair's D notices are the stuff of conspiracy theory.
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>> There is a 'D' notice on the MSM (mainstream social media) to stop the sheeple
>> hearing about this theft of peoples savings.
>>
>> Ireland next, then who ?
You do talk a load of horlicks at times, I cant think the party see you as an asset.
Unless they are desperate.
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I think its much more cool and shows innate superiority when one uses terrible trendy and witty words like "sheeple".
As Monthy Python once said; "what a silly bunt".
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Putting aside attacks on the messenger, is the content correct?
Have depositors with more than 100K€ in Bank of Cyprus potentially lost up to 90% of their money? It seems so:
www.cityam.com/article/bank-cyprus-turns-cash-equity
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Shock, horror: I confess - I didn't write it.
It was a copy & paste from another (non-political) site I frequent.
It was the content, not the presentation, which caught my eye.
It certainly has stirred a few of you into life!
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UKIP now have absolutely no chance of winning anything, as their leader is clearly Satan incarnate.
Local news today. My goodness, life in the Fens is thrilling.
www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/UKIP-leader-Nigel-Farage-caught-parking-in-Ramsey-disabled-bay-20130501164323.htm
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Well thats it then, Im voting Green! Then again, they will prob ban car parks or cars aswell.
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If the greens get in, cambridgeshire will be cross crossed with guided bus ways all jammed up with lorries that took the wrong turn.
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That is how they will kickstart their campaign for a return to horse&cart. They have a cunning plan!
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The Greens are actually to the far left of the Labour Party - Marxists in a tree-hugging camouflage!
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Ramsey is a UKIP town, with a UKIP mayor!
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Watched Farage on Andrew Marr show being interviewed by Jeremy Vine, did well.
He answers the questions asked simply which is most unpolitician like these days (not since Thatcher) can't see the others doing that, when pressed by Vine he stated that he will stand for election in this country after the european elections are over, which presumably means in the general election.
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I just watched it too. Most interesting for me is that he is starting to put more stock in their ability to reach voters nationally, ironic because Labour and its daft 'One Nation' rhetoric is actually what UKIP is managing to do. Labour wants to do better in the South, Tories in the North and yet only UKIP is actually looking like a real 'one nation' party given the geographical reach they have, gotta laugh.
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"Gay marriage, foreign aid and wind farms. no wonder Tory voters feel closer to me"
Nigel Farage referring to the stupidity of Cameron's priorities, in today's DM.
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I dont think Nigel needs to say a thing, the Tories are busy enough beating themselves up, I dont know about UKIP splitting the vote but they are certainly splitting the Tories.
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A lot of things are splitting the Tories Stu. UKIP is just one of them, not the most important whatever the comics may say.
Snarling and biting like a pack of hungry, evil huskies without a clear top dog at the moment. The crabs-in-a-barrel aspect of party politics is strangely dispiriting to a sensitive person. Not everyone has the bowels for it as a profession.
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It has just occurred to me where Mr Farage sources his dapper, off-key schmutter: he goes to Peter Christian at Millett's (a new joint enterprise à la Armani at Marks and Spencer).
Eureka! I won't need to worry any more.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 5 May 13 at 17:26
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>>A lot of things are splitting the Tories Stu. UKIP is just one of them, not the most important whatever the comics may say. <<
Perhaps but it may yet prove to be. The Tories lack credibility, not on policy but honesty and that is an exceptionally hard thing to fix - UKIP has exposed the lack of trust between grassroots Tories and the leadership who even before this were not on good terms. UKIP has been hoovering up Tory activists of late and this will only serve to tempt more.
The Cameron u-turn on UKIP is on the one hand understandable and on the other just about the most cyncial piece of bad politics he could manage - people already thought he was free of any principles and not trustworthy, so now he is presenting himself as the man who will call you racist one minute and embrace you the next - if that is what he calls a winning strategy he is even more out of touch with reality than one could possibly imagine.
He is just lucky that Ed Milliband is an utter looser who will only wander into No.10 by default. It beggars belief that with talents like Umunna they somehow ended up with that wally in charge.
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>> >>A lot of things are splitting the Tories Stu. UKIP is just one of them,
>> not the most important whatever the comics may say. <<
>>
>> Perhaps but it may yet prove to be. The Tories lack credibility, not on policy
>> but honesty and that is an exceptionally hard thing to fix - UKIP has exposed
>> the lack of trust between grassroots Tories and the leadership who even before this were
>> not on good terms. UKIP has been hoovering up Tory activists of late and this
>> will only serve to tempt more.
The very worse thing on earth is a tory activist. They have strange 18th century morals, still think we should have a commonwealth we can exploit, consider us to be a mighty isle that can kick the europeans into touch, and bemoan the fact they are not allowed to send children up chimneys anymore.
And that is why UKIP is deplorable. It hoovers up the very worse "activists" of all persuasions. Racists, biggots, idiots, dreamers.
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"It hoovers up the very worse "activists" of all persuasions. Racists, biggots, idiots, dreamers."
But it does at least put them all in the same dustbag.
The sooner the right wing activist clowns and fruitcakes depart from the Conservative party the better. Now they have a party to pander to their views they can join it and the sooner the better.
The worst thing the Conservativess can do it to try to appease their right wing. They should take the opportunity to be rid of them
Without the loony right they can then build a modern, economically literate, internationalist party which without the far right will undoubtably have a far greater appeal to that biggest block of all voters the moderate centre.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 5 May 13 at 18:55
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>>Without the loony right they can then build a modern, economically literate, internationalist party which without the far right will undoubtably have a far greater appeal to that biggest block of all voters the moderate centre.<<
Because that won them the GE didnt it? Oh wait, it didnt did it. The only loonies around here are the Cameroon sycophants who think that the best strategy is to copy one that has already failed.
You are right about the rightwing of the Tory Party though, it should join UKIP, they are not welcome in the Conservative Party and watching them try and persuade Cameron that redefining gay marriage isnt the most important thing he can do for the country right now is just tragic.
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>>They have strange 18th century morals, still think we should have a commonwealth we can exploit, consider us to be a mighty isle that can kick the europeans into touch, and bemoan the fact they are not allowed to send children up chimneys anymore <<
And they say UKIP talks nonsense, you read too many of the cartoons in the Mirror.
>>It hoovers up the very worse "activists" of all persuasions. Racists, biggots, idiots, dreamers.<<
The first two are split between the Lib Dems and Labour who love adding them to their ranks. I would never talk down to people for having dreams in life, we cannot all be as hopeless and miserable as you.
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>
>> we cannot all be as hopeless and miserable as you.
Says one of life achievers. Grandmas and daddys money wont last forever you know.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 5 May 13 at 19:32
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Stu, Zero may not be perfect but he isn't like that. I'm more like that than he is and even I am not like that. And he's right about yr miserablist discourse (although you aren't the only one round here, Zero's no slouch at it himself come to that...).
It's tempting to underrate the great and good, especially those the cut of whose jibs you don't like, and it's tempting when doing that to oversimplify the (often mysterious actually) processes involved. These are widespread vices that don't help people's judgement much. I blame the mass media (and the great and good of course).
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>>And he's right about yr miserablist discourse (although you aren't the only one round here, Zero's no slouch at it himself come to that...). <<
Its all a bit of fun though, I dont think you should ever actually engage emotionally in internet discussions, so if I appear miserable, it is only because it suits me to appear so, one has an image as a freeloading angry person to uphold ya know. I am hoping that pinning a UKIP badge on my blazer will further the picture :-)
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>> one has an image as a freeloading angry person to uphold ya know
I was thinking more along the lines of a 30-ish year old man whose life has already reached its zenith of financial and occupational aspirations and is now doomed to slowly and irrevocably find life increasingly difficult until he finally shuffles off to feed the worms.
But then I have a morbid and pessimistic persona to maintain too.
Good luck with the wean btw ;-)
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>>I was thinking more along the lines of a 30-ish year old man whose life has already reached its zenith of financial and occupational aspirations and is now doomed to slowly and irrevocably find life increasingly difficult until he finally shuffles off to feed the worms.<<
Actually I reached the zenith at 22 when I bought a house outright ;-) I wonder if smarty pants managed that.
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>>Actually I reached the zenith at 22
Even worse than I feared - you need these guys: www.dignitas.ch/?lang=en
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 5 May 13 at 20:49
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>>Even worse than I feared - you need these guys: www.dignitas.ch/?lang=en<<
Im happy enough enjoying semi-retirement ;-)
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>> Actually I reached the zenith at 22 when I bought a house outright ;-) I
>> wonder if smarty pants managed that.
No, but then again I managed to keep hold of my kid. As you said, its not all about money.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 5 May 13 at 20:58
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>> No, but then again I managed to keep hold of my kid.
>>
For Gods sake Zero, is that what passes for intelligent argument in your world, that is far below the belt and unworthy of a gentleman.
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I didnt start with the personal stuff GB, merely handing it back.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 5 May 13 at 21:03
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>>I didnt start with the personal stuff GB, merely handing it back <<
I suggested you lack hope and are miserable - you think a barb about not being able to see my child is at the same level do you? Will you be wishing him dead next perhaps, would that make you laugh perhaps, would that 'get' me?
You are factually wrong anyway since you cannot loose a child you never had custody over - and they say UKIP is shaky on detail. Doh.
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>> I didnt start with the personal stuff GB, merely handing it back.
Yeah, but it's escalated from a difference of opinion about politics. It's one thing to take it to heart and get a bit polemical, another to move on to the next stage and get nasty. You have to sheer off at a certain point or things get out of hand and silly.
Depends who you're talking to up to a point I suppose.
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>> I didnt start with the personal stuff GB, merely handing it back.
But you elevated it to a different level. Money is one thing. Flesh and blood is another.
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>> passes for intelligent argument in your world,
The playground? It's a bit like minicabbing hanging out here sometimes.
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>> It's a bit like minicabbing hanging out here sometimes.
>>
I wonder if you ever ran into (figuratively speaking) SWM, she worked out of Wembley office i believe in the 80s, unforgettable it would have been she's still as mad as box of frogs now as she was then, and the second the key went in the ignition the two horns sprouted...you'd have got on like a house on fire.
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>> she's still as mad as box of frogs now as she was then, and the second the key went in the ignition the two horns sprouted...
Heh heh... never met a lady doing it that I can remember, but I was in Clapham a decade earlier, early and mid seventies. Perhaps by the time Ms gb was driving there would have been a few well-flash Indian boys up there earning the disapproval of the toothsucking old native Wembleyites... They would be wall to wall now I guess.
The firm I worked for was overtly racist. No black or brown person drove there. There was a Cypriot but he was a London Cypriot. They were very sexist too and politically reactionary. They found me very exotic, but I could do the work and they tolerated me.
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Not Addison Lee minicabs by any chance Sire ;)
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>> Not Addison Lee minicabs by any chance
Minicabs don't exist any more Perro. Addison Lee... tchah! People carriers driven by mimsing, wandering recent immigrants with their eyes glued to their pratnavs... you're joking innit?
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People carriers driven by mimsing, wandering
>> recent immigrants with their eyes glued to their pratnavs... you're joking innit?
Wacist! :-)
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>> Wacist! :-)
Not at all Rastaman... just got some of that old jokey Bwitish xenophobia...
And in all seriousness, have you never got stuck behind one of these modern apologies for minicabs? They really are appalling. We were too of course, but in a much better way if you see what I mean.
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>> >> Wacist! :-)
>>
>> Not at all Rastaman... just got some of that old jokey Bwitish xenophobia...
>>
>> And in all seriousness, have you never got stuck behind one of these modern apologies
>> for minicabs? They really are appalling. We were too of course, but in a much
>> better way if you see what I mean.
>>
I bet you remember the awful fleet of Renault Dauphines run by Welbeck Motors?
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I do remember them, very well, every panel bashed in by evil resentful black cabs and Cinzano ads all over them. They were the first minicabs, an attempt by Welbeck Motors to do an Addison Lee. Charlie Short, ex-jazzman and speedhead, who I mentioned the other day in another thread, actually drove for them. I imagine they lost a lot of money though.
By the time I did minicabbing it was quite widespread, but a network of small firms, sort of lumpen capitalist cooperatives really. The drivers owned the cars and got work through the firms which had offices and radios. The drivers paid rent for the radios and had to do a certain number of 'account jobs' for which they were generally paid a bit less. Expensive hire and reward insurance often came via the firms too on an agency or kickback basis. And the firms could be a bit naughty about producing the documents. One wasn't entirely sure that one was really insured. But people were big tippers in the seventies and you could make a rather arduous living if you did the hours. It was entertaining too, for a couple of months.
I imagine a lot of those firms were put out of business by insurance and other regulations being tightened up a few years ago. So now there's Addison Lee and country firms, posh limo hire and so on. The great days are gone.
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>>As you said, its not all about money. <<
Not for me but you were moaning like a little girl that I was living off my family money so it obviously matters to you. They actually owe me money lol, charming though I am as a charity case.
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>> >>As you said, its not all about money. <<
>>
>> Not for me but you were moaning like a little girl that I was living
>> off my family money so it obviously matters to you. They actually owe me money
>> lol, charming though I am as a charity case.
A little girl? I give it a rest if i were you
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For heaven's sake leave it You really look like a playground bully sometimes.
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Defending myself you mean?
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Don't have a go at Z or he will flounce, standard bully routine.
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Thats it, stick your nose in.
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Whatever the rights and wrongs of this particular spat, You (FoR) join happily into the personal comments and spats and then suddenly decide to become a victim.
This is hardly the first time.
Since chucking a personal comment at Zero tends to get a bomb thrown back, then I would suggest that not throwing the comment in the first place would be smarter. And you do throw them frequently, often initiating the personal exchange. You just fail to cope at stuff thrown back at you.
And, with respect to Bromp, if its really necessary for him (and GB and Pat) to protect you when it gets too tough, then perhaps you'd be better off not participating in such conversations or arguments in the first place.
And for you to say its better not to get emotionally involved in an internet forum, then I suggest you read some of the over-emotional stuff you've put in here over recent months.
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Bromp - I gave you a frowny. Not because I am offended with what you say, but I can just see the "me toos" all pouring out with their thumbs, so I thought I'd balance it at least a bit.
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>> And, with respect to Bromp, if its really necessary for him (and GB and Pat)
>> to protect you when it gets too tough.
Stu doesn't need anyone to protect him, i stuck my oar in because i disliked the below the belt particularly nasty comment that Zero made.
This forum doesn't need comments like that, i would expect an intelligent and apparently otherwise successful person to know when a line has been reached and not cross it.
edit...i have given no frown faces and no thumbs up here.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sun 5 May 13 at 21:44
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>>Whatever the rights and wrongs of this particular spat, You (FoR) join happily into the personal comments and spats and then suddenly decide to become a victim <<
I am not bothered by what he said, but that doesnt mean I dont see it as a rather low level to go to. I cannot imagine the circumstances when I would ever use that particular element of someones life to be mean to them, you have to have a line somewhere, jeez I only called him miserable.
>>And you do throw them frequently, often initiating the personal exchange. You just fail to cope at stuff thrown back at you <<
I would suggest that the big grin on my face means Im coping OK :-)
If he wasnt so superior I wouldnt bother but ive known plenty like him in my life and I dont suffer them anymore, I dont mind if he winds himself up, I had a lovely morning with my son although the little monkey tried to cheat at Top Trumps :-p
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>>I would suggest that the big grin on my face means Im coping OK :-)
You don't really want me to trawl through finding examples, do you?
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>>You don't really want me to trawl through finding examples, do you? <<
Only if it is from today since today is when it is happening. Happy to admit I tied myself in knots in the past but you should be pleased Im not doing it now, we all have to progress in life and a decent person acknowledges change aswell as history.
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>> If he wasnt so superior I wouldnt bother but ive known plenty like him in
>> my life and I dont suffer them anymore,
You really dont want to give it a rest do you. I really really would if i were you.
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>>You really dont want to give it a rest do you. I really really would if i were you.<<
Why the threats, are you really that kind of person?
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>> (and GB and Pat)<<
Hey, don't bring me into it, I had far better things to do on a sunny Sunday than sit arguing on an internet forum!
Reading it this morning though I do think FoR asked for this one, for what it's worth!
Pat
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>>A little girl? I give it a rest if i were you<<
Or what? Going to bore me to death talking about your taxi?
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>> >>A little girl? I give it a rest if i were you<<
>>
>> Or what? Going to bore me to death talking about your taxi?
Yeah right, I'll leave the rest unsaid lest I be accused of being a bully.
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>>Says one of life achievers.<<
Happily married, bills get paid and happy in life. More than many people manage so yeah, maybe I am. Not everything boils down to money and how much of it you have.
>>Grandmas and daddys money wont last forever you know <<
I make my own luck, you know far less than you think you do, im tempted sometimes to tell you more to shut you up, but I need something to pass the time :-)
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>>we cannot all be as hopeless and miserable as you.
Oh you underestimate yourself.
[sorry, I tried but I couldn't resist]
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>>Oh you underestimate yourself.<<
Cheeky :-)
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Seems the sun has gone to some people's heads.
I don't care who started it, I don't even care who's willy is bigger.
Now how about returning to topic instead of continuing to argue with each other.
Or is that too much to ask?
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To be fair it was the original topic that started it :-)
If you call a million people racist bigots, you have to expect some pushback afterall.
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Me & my chums definitely put the world to right this afternoon. A late morning train to Lancaster, taking light refreshment in the Tap House, the Borough, Water Witch & Sir Robert Gillow where we listened to some live Blues.
Followed by a few more in 2 local pubs after a snooze returning home on the old rattler.
Good company, decent beer and no rain.
Carry on as before.
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>> And that is why UKIP is deplorable. It hoovers up the very worse "activists" of
>> all persuasions. Racists, biggots, idiots, dreamers.
>>
There's too many voting UKIP at the moment (or considering it) for that to be anywhere near true..unless you are saying a great chunk of the country fit that definition.
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>> >> And that is why UKIP is deplorable. It hoovers up the very worse "activists"
>> of
>> >> all persuasions. Racists, biggots, idiots, dreamers.
>> >>
>>
>> There's too many voting UKIP at the moment (or considering it) for that to be
>> anywhere near true..unless you are saying a great chunk of the country fit that definition.
I was taking about the people within the party, and those NIBMY, corrupt, gay hating, right wing perverts in the Tory party not the electorate who registered their protest votes. However, now you come to mention it......
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 5 May 13 at 23:04
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Zero : You are (whisper it) - a LibDem & I claim my £5.
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Political life would be easier in some ways if we had a decent system of PR.
I think that political groupings would coalesce into 6 parties in England:
- UKIP & Tories on the right.
- Social Democratic & Socialist on the left.
- The Greens (Leftish but dominated by environmentalism)
- The LibDems as the centre party
To these, we could add the Nationalist Parties in Scotland and Wales.
We could potentially see some weird and wonderful coalitions out of that lot!
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You're absolutely right London, but until an alternative leader such as but not necessarily Farage emerges and holds a balance of power PR will never happen.
That would be true democracy which we have recentlyseen in action with the meteoric rise of UKIP, and look at the furore its causing when the status quo fear for their cartel, those who own and really run the show via their bought and future promised political mainstream front men would never allow it.
Those who oppose PR will point out that we had the Alternative Voting System vote, which of course was nothing like PR just another weasel worded system designed to prevent real representation.
The Libs had their chance to make a real difference and force PR through as the Tories without an elected majority needed them, they as usual failed on priniciple on something at the heart of their beliefs...they proved themselves as untrustworthy as the Cameron govt over this and tuition fees and the like.
I have no problem with tuition fees personally by the way as far too many unsuitable young people go to university with predictable results for them in the real world.
It was the fact that the Libs, just like the Eton/Bullingdon mob they fag for lied, but then lying to get elected seems to be the current wheeze in Britsh politics, the recent UKIP gains seem to indicate that finally at long last a good number of voters have twigged the game, not before time either.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 6 May 13 at 07:57
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If UKIP puts the fear of a fate worse than death (loss of income perks and expenses) into the current politicians and encourages them to be a bit more careful with our money, which they spend like pouring water down a drain, they will have done a good job. Regardless of winning any seats in parliament.
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For years now, prior to general elections, the main parties have been asking themselves “What do we stand for?” and coming up with corporate-speak slogans like ‘going forward together’, ‘making a difference’ etc. First it would be the Conservatives and Labour, and then the LibDems would come up with something combining the two. Every time, I’d shout at the t.v. “How about standing for common sense” …………”COMMON SENSE!!!” I’d scream.
Then this year, for the first time, I heard a Politician use the words ’Common sense’ – Nigel Farage took to his battle bus and called his outing ‘The Common Sense Tour’.
Did I vote for UKIP? Of course I did. Like any other sensible person, I can see that this country is sinking under the weight of too many bodies. And that is not a racist statement – I am not a racist. This is a massive elephant in the room – and only UKIP seems to have recognized the problem; it affects health, education, transport etc.
Westpig was right when he said >There's too many voting UKIP at the moment (or considering it) for that to be anywhere near true… unless you are saying a great chunk of the country fit that definition.<
My natural political views veer to the left; Dad was a miner and I was born and brought up in a council prefab in a Leicestershire pit village (Dad still thinks that Arthur Scargill and Gordon Brown were good blokes). In the 6th form, when a budding psychologist tested me with the Penguin Book of Psychology, I came out as a ‘soft socialist’. The following year, ’68, I was protesting in Grosvenor Square.
Life has taught me, however, not to fall into that trap of dogma.
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I happened to be flicking through some of the comments on a DM Melanie Philips article when this gem leaped out.
''The story used to be "we need to communicate our policies better" whenever the Conservatives did badly; now it is "our advisers were the wrong advisers" and "we misjudged how left or not the voters really are".
Wouldn't it be better to have a PM and party which believed in something and campaigned on that? What we actually have are three marketing teams determined to get their brand elected so all their favoured friends can live off the backs of the rest of us. If Cameron believes in anything it is antithetic to the Brits.''
That poster has spoken for me far better than i could possibly manage, the phrase
''a PM and party which believed in something and campaigned on that''
has described exactly whats wrong with the three stooge parties, they stand for nothing except self gain.
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>>I can see that this country is sinking under the weight of too many bodies. And that is not a racist statement – I am not a racist. This is a massive elephant in the room – and only UKIP seems to have recognized the problem; it affects health, education, transport etc.
Unfortunately UKIP see the issue and find the wrong cause/cure.
The vast bulk of pensioners, unemployed and disabled are of ethnic British stock.
Watch in amazement as net immigration drops as jobs dry up - and also watch as the Tories/Lib Dems take credit for it with their "tough stance" on immigration.
The balance in the UK is that there are too few workers supporting too many children, pensioners, disabled, prisoners, and unemployed.
The real 'elephant' in the room is cost to the nation those past working age and the utter failure of the govt to address this, painful as it may be.
The country gains a net benefit of importing young men/women/families where the adults work and pay tax. Virtually none of the Poles/Lithuanians up this way come in for their sick lines - their too busy working to be sick.
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>> The real 'elephant' in the room is cost to the nation those past working age
>> and the utter failure of the govt to address this, painful as it may be.
>>
The reason the politicians won't upset the numerous pensioners is a very high proportion of the use their votes.
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>> The reason the politicians won't upset the numerous pensioners is a very high proportion of the use their votes.
Hmm time to make voting mandatory?
;-)
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>> Hmm time to make voting mandatory?
One can only agree, but the insouciant young who don't vote now will be unlikely to vote for their own future prosperity like the middle-aged curmudgeons who abound here. They will vote for the caring, extravagant, bunny-hugging party if they get a chance.
All advanced capitalist countries are suffering these problems with youth unemployment and - in Europe anyway - large social subsidies. It's to do with technology putting people out of work, and capitalism being at a loss to occupy their idle hands (and find an excuse to pay them). I haven't a clue what ought to be done about it, but something original will be needed. Fingers crossed eh?
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>>Hmm time to make voting mandatory?
Until last year voting in Chile was compulsory.
In the first elections, where it was not compulsory, turn out dropped in one fell swoop to European levels.
However they maintain, and I agree, that for a true democracy you must have the right not to vote.
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"The real 'elephant' in the room is cost to the nation those past working age and the utter failure of the govt to address this, painful as it may be."
It it of course somewhat ironic that a large proportion of UKIP supporters are pensioners.
Realistically not much you can really do to reduce the financial burden of supporting an ageing population. You can tinker around the edges with thinks like heating allowances but at the end of the day that cost is always going to be with us.
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It is just a case of priorities, you could finance the pensioners for decades for the cost of a war, or foreign aid, (bribes), or health tourists, or housing foreigners and paying them benefits, or paying pensions and / or benefits to people living abroad, etc.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 6 May 13 at 18:53
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>> you could finance the pensioners for decades for the cost of a war, or foreign aid, (bribes), or health tourists, or housing foreigners and paying them benefits...
And therein lies the problem because you could not
The cost of pensions, health and social care to those outside working age massively dwarfs all other parts of goverment spending.
Trying to save 20% of government spending while 'ringfencing' 50% of the budget means a 40% cut on the rest.
Or being economical with how you define ringfencing (watch this space for NHS budget being used to pay for social care, overseas aid budget being used for defence/security, etc).
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>> The real 'elephant' in the room is cost to the nation those past working age
>> and the utter failure of the govt to address this, painful as it may be.
Blimey, even tho you are a Jock, you have articulated the problem perfectly - well said.
Of course, being a doctor, its all your fault.
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>>This is a massive elephant in the room – and only UKIP seems to have recognized the problem; it affects health, education, transport etc.
I think you don't understand. Immigration is not the problem, nor even a significant part of the problem. It is merely a convenient and simplistic scapegoat for the hard of understanding upon which all their ills can be blamed.
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"I think you don't understand."
Sorry, old pal, I think I understand rather better than you but, I won't take your bait, I'll go and re-arrange my sock-drawer.
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>> I'll go and re-arrange my sock-drawer.
We should all stick to what we're good at.
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Darn fine riposte, that will make him toe the line.
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Politics/putting the world to rights thread. Vol 4 - Stuu
