Opinions as to which option below to pick gratefully received.
About ten years ago we bought a Bosch dishwasher. It failed in warranty, was repaired, failed again about a year out of warranty. So we got about five years out of it
We replaced it with another Bosch. It is now out of warranty and has failed. We also got about five years out of it.
Options:
1 - replace with same model (about £375)
2 - get it fixed by Bosch for £89 plus parts, whatever that might cost, getting a year's warranty on the repair.
3 - get it fixed on the Bosch £14 a month for a year scheme, no extra parts cost, getting a year's warranty on the repair and also on any other fault, up to and including a new for old machine replacement
4 - replace it with the cheapest Bush (not Bosch) model at a third of the cost (£130), and accept it will probably break quickly.
Suggestions that involve Marigolds will be rejected out of glove.
Edit: should add that we are a bit constrained as it has to be a "compact" countertop model.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Fri 12 Apr 13 at 11:33
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You've done all the self diagnosis stuff for blocked filters, spray arms etc. ?
Assuming you can start the Bosch £14/month thing with a broken machine I'd go for that. Wouldn't go that route for a TV or a tumble drier but for stuff like washing machines and dishwashers with complex moving parts they can be good value provided they use the manufacturers agent or other proven repairers.
They may get priority call out and, becuase the labour rate will be lower then a one off 'rack rate', job the equation with creating a 'sinking fund' for repairs is skewed.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 12 Apr 13 at 11:44
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You've had two failed Boschs and want to replace with a third? Or give them £15/month in perpetuity? Don't get suckered in, they're no better than any other brand and IMHO German engineering is never up to much anyway.
Get yourself down the local discount electrical store (or eBay) and grab an Indesit or something. It'll almost certainly do five years without a problem - especially if you use a dishwasher washer thing every so often - and if not, the money you've saved will buy a brand new one.
In fact, a quick peek at the Currys website shows a Hotpoint for £220. My parents have one and it receives daily abuse, and has gone for two years with no problems.
Bosch service plan: 5 * 12 * 14 = £840
That's 3.8 Hotpoints over 5 years. You could change the colour every 15 months and still be quids in.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Fri 12 Apr 13 at 12:17
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is it just failing to empty its water?
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Thanks so thus far.
I've done basic checks. Not a water problem, it's that the timer won't advance (and perhaps relevant, who knows) it's got very noisy. If you rotate the dial by hand past the "sticking point" it will then do the next phase, then sticks again. So can't be left unattended to wash, has to be intervened with every 20 minutes or so.
The 14 a month thing might be the way to go - it was my first idea, but then I started to think about it, hence posting. I should have chucked £50 a month somewhere in a savings account to cover "white goods failure" I suppose as Bromptonaut suggested. I'll start doing that perhaps.
Fursty, yes, take your point (although the sums don't quite work as you describe, given that a new Bosch would have a two year warranty when you buy and I don't think Hotpoint or Indesit do "compact" models.) But in essence, you're picking option 4 - buy something cheap and cheerful and hope.
I was hoping Bosch was a good name in dishwashers - I still don't know if five years is good or not and another brand would be expected to last two years, or whether five years is about par, or even poor. I know about names like Miele, but again I don't think they do a compact.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Fri 12 Apr 13 at 12:41
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We got a Siemens mid range dishwasher some years ago and it was well made, quiet, came with a 5 year warranty, was cheaper than a mid-to-top range Bosch (I know they are both from the same company).... a good buy. Don't know if it's still working more than 5 years later because it stayed in the house when we sold it.
Current house has an integrated Neff dishwasher (same company again) but it's not as well made. Lots more plastic inside, fewer programmes... but it is working well.
Would I go for a Bosch/Siemens again? Probably because:
1. They are more versatile than some cheaper makes/models including (a) removable top tray to wash large items, (b) adjustable height for top tray
2. We got a 'cheap' colour coded integrated dishwasher before the Siemens I mention above to match the one that needed replacing. It was as much as the Siemens standalone/white one but very poor quality and lasted little more than 12 months... scrapped it and got the Siemens. No comparison in quality - even those today that are built to a lower price.
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>> We got a Siemens mid range dishwasher some years ago ...
Our Siemens dishwasher needed one repair early in life but is now 15 years old. Its been getting noisier over the last couple of years, and a few of the 'prongs' on the top backet have broken.
The Siemens fridge died a couple of years ago. The freezer is still going strong. All came new with the house in early 1998.
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I think 5 years for a dishwasher is ok. Its not great, but its ok. I know the one I have in the kitchen here is about 10 years old, albeit an expensive one in its day.
Another Bosch might be ok. 5 years is reasonable, you're happy with the item, so at least you know what you're getting into.
£14 per month for ever? I don't think so. You could afford to be a new cheapy every 10 months, and they won't break that fast.
The problem with the cheapy will be its functionality. It won;t break that fast, although I guess it probably won't make 5 years. But it is not likely to perform as well as the more expensive options.
Personally I'd get the current one repaired. £80 + parts & a year's warranty? that probably compares favourably with a new cheapy.
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Our experience with Bosch has not been good.
Years ago we had a VERY expensive Bosch clothes washer/dryer, which was (a) rubbish & (b) costly to repair. Similarly the Bosch toasters and kettles we have are nothing special - China made of course!
In Spain we went for a Fagor dishwasher, (about middle of the range): here we have a slimline integrated machine fitted by our kitchen supplier/fitter, so I doubt it is a premium make. Over the years we have had several dishwashers, none expensive and have never had a moment's trouble with any of them.
A dishwasher is a very basic machine really - apart from its controls it is just a pump!
I would buy the cheapest machine you can find which meets your needs.
We have BEKO stuff here and it's fine.
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>>We have BEKO stuff here and it's fine.
There's a BEKO washing machine here that we took over when we moved in, BEKO wouldn't be my first choice for a domestic appliance but, it must be 7 years old now and does what it's supposed to do, so that's a big thumbs up from me.
It doesn't cope very well with the Meissen though for some reason.
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Must be the week for it. Our 6 yr old Bosch has just quit (working perfectly, then suddenly switched off mid-cycle and now completely dead). Until this point, it has not skipped a beat. We have an appliance cover policy and someone is coming out to take a look on Tuesday. Might just be a random failed plug fuse, but I suspect it isn't. The policy makes a cash contribution to a replacement if it's not fixable.
The pop-up plate rack on the bottom tray of the Bosch drove me nuts, so if they haven't done away with that on the new models, I won't buy another Bosch just for that reason. Otherwise, it will be whatever I can find a deal on at the time. Hopefully though, they will patch it up and restore normal service.
Last edited by: DP on Fri 12 Apr 13 at 13:15
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>> The pop-up plate rack on the bottom tray of the Bosch drove me nuts, so
>> if they haven't done away with that on the new models, I won't buy another
>> Bosch just for that reason. Otherwise, it will be whatever I can find a deal
>> on at the time. Hopefully though, they will patch it up and restore normal service.
An example of YMMV. The alternative configurations on the lower and upper trays of our old Bosch were something I really wanted on it's successor. None of the Bosch machines in budget at time had that flexibility. It seemed by then to be limited to £500+ range.
Eventually found a Zanussi that fitted the bill to some extent. Still doesn't swallow our crocks quite as well though. Cereal bowls, tumblers and mugs need great care to load so they cannot move. The Bosch also had a high rail at the rear of the bottom tray to which grill pan liners and the like could be clipped.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 12 Apr 13 at 13:36
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Still doesn't swallow our crocks quite as well though.
>>
I must get some new reading glasses...
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>> the timer won't advance (and perhaps relevant, who knows) it's got very noisy. If you rotate the dial by hand past the "sticking point" it will then do the next phase, then sticks again.
Feel like getting your hands dirty?
I'd apply a bit of lube to it, although you may have to remove it first.
I had a full size Bosch D/W that appeared to similarly 'stick'. It was a float valve that controlled the flow of water into the machine that was sticking. I marked its approximate position on the outside casing with an 'X'. A thump on the spot got it going again. SWMBO was less than gruntled!
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Thank you. I shall now spend, probably for the first and last time, an evening thinking about the combination of lube and thumping, possibly before calling a man to do it for me.
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I'd buy a Miele any day after our tumble dryer - which is excellent.
www.johnlewis.com/miele-g4420sc-dishwasher-white/p231905598
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We've got a mixture of Bosch and Neff white goods, none of which have given any bother in 5+ years. My Mum and Dad had a new kitchen back in 1984 and had an 'Etna' fitted dishwasher installed (no, I've never heard of them either!) It has only just given up the ghost after giving no problems whatsoever in 29 years! Not bad for an unknown make...
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We have used a small indy locally for many years. They've been trading a long time from a little shop and have built up an excellent reputation for sales and service.
We go by their recommendation for white goods. We've had an integrated CDA dishwasher for over 5 years without a hint of bother. Likewise, our LG washing machine is giving good service.
Ted
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Ted, I've got a few things from A&S not sure if this is the one you mean (the Siemens dishwasher came from there as did a few other appliances). Also know a good repairer who lives in Chorlton - he's good value and more importantly trusted. He's come out and said something was not cost effective to fix before now and not charged for his time. Or put us in touch with someone else for example when he knew they'd be better placed to help fix something.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 12 Apr 13 at 17:51
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>> Ted, I've got a few things from A&S not sure if this is the one
>> you mean
No, the people I deal with are in Urmston on Higher Road. Appliance Care.
Useful to have a good indy repairer, though. I wouldn't mind his number. Just been recommended a good plumber, local guy.....called today to sort out a rad that wasn't getting hot.
Booked him for a system flush at a time to suit himself . Didn't charge for today so I slipped him a tenner anyway.
Ted
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>> is it just failing to empty its water?
>>
As the nurse said to the old man in the home. :)
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Buy another, a make that does not include the letters B O S C H.
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Our Bosch (age unknown - previous owner of house left it behind) failed recently too. I wondered whether some bits would fix it - the upper deck had been getting less and less water and eventually none at all - but we decided on one of John Lewis's rebadged AEG appliances.
Should have done it three years ago. Even on the 30-min programme, the glasses we thought must have something wrong with them come out sparkling. And 33cm pasta bowls that were too big for the old machine go in comfortably. Good decision.
We looked too at a similarly priced Siemens. Not only is it from the same company as Bosch, it contains many of the same parts, some unpleasantly flimsy and sharp-edged. Had a fussy slidy tray for cutlery too, which would take for ever to unload. Not impressed.
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My theory with almost anything is to go by price - buy the second cheapest or the second most expensive, nothing in between.
My first dishwasher was an Indesit. It lasted 19 years before catastrophic chassis rot caused it to fall apart. Everything mechanical was still working.
Second Indesit only lasted 5 years.
Tried something else - mid-range, timer packed up after 5 years.
So switched tack and went for a Miele. So far nothing has gone wrong after 4 years.
I like the cutlery rack. Fiddly to load but a joy to empty.
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Our Miele is now 10, has never missed a beat and if it failed tomorrow it wouldn't owe us a penny, its been used at least 6 times a week since new.
The insides are as new, the only minus is that there is slight corrosion on the metal trim rivetted around the door, pity about that and it shouldn't really be happening...didn't expect it needed Waxoyling before use.
However we invested last year in an ISE washing machine, about the only make to match Miele for a full 10 year parts and labour warranty.
Built like a brick outhouse does the job and is ridiculously quiet doing so.
ISE now offer their own dishwasher, that has the same warranty.
When the Mile eventually pegs out we will get one....only drawback is the price £900.
www.iseappliances.co.uk/index.php/products/d243w-dishwasher
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Some on here may recall I had issues with a Beko dishwasher a little while back which failed just out of warranty. DSG refused to help, even going as far as telling me they didn't care what the SOGA stated.
Anyway, after some persuasion Beko themselves agreed to a repair. Its then failed a further 3 times since (4 breakdowns in 20 months) The repair agent told us he didn't know what else to replace on it, so he appealed to Beko who agreed to a replacement machine.
Our previous machine was a Bosh and that gave good service for about 9 years.
How about a john lewis machine
www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-jldww1200-dishwasher-white/p230604486
£279 delivered with 3 year warranty, or extra 60 quid for 5 years
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Depends who you're suggesting it to, Mikey. Cranks needs a teeny-tiny one.
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Aha. All bets are off. Having now spent as much time as I care to this evening muttering imprecations at it whilst following various suggestions from here and Youtube, it's beyond anything I can do to fix it.
Mrs C, however, with her superior spatial awareness, has made a blinder of a suggestion, rearranging various kitchen items in such a way as to allow us to put in full size dishwasher.
That opens up the market a lot, and I thank you all for your various ideas, the prime one being that John Lewis one I think. Even with the extra 60 quid for an extended warranty I'd get five years cover on it for less total outlay than the replacement Bosch, and we all trust JL to play fair.
My only reservation is that in the new arrangement the dishwasher would have to share a drain with the washing machine. I guess there are little two way type gadgets of some sort that can feed two pipes down one hole, as it were....
Edit: that'll be this then?
www.amazon.co.uk/Twin-Adaptor-Connect-appliances-waste/dp/B005CTSA4W/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_2
Last edited by: Crankcase on Fri 12 Apr 13 at 21:47
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We decided to pay a little more for this one:
www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-jldw1221-dishwasher-white/p231072510
Mainly because of the adjustable racking that lets it take our big plates and bowls. The letters XXL are helpfully embossed on the inside of the door, as they are on the AEG-badged machine displayed in the next row in the Wycombe store. They even put a 34cm-diameter plastic plate in the display machine to convince you.
Of course, if you've been managing with a baby machine, you may have nothing big enough to make this useful.
};---)
The extra programmes are probably less useful than they appear - we've not yet found anything that the 60'C Quick programme can't do.
Ours shares a drain with the washing machine, and both will run happily at once.
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>> Depending on your plumbing layout you might be better with one of these.
>> compare.ebay.co.uk/like/151000251476?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla&crdt=0
>>
IMO that looks like a Y piece for the supply,
Something like this?
www.wickes.co.uk/1-12in-sink-p-trap-+-2-x-nozzle-wm11/invt/226994/
Last edited by: henry k on Fri 12 Apr 13 at 22:21
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yeah, thats what I installed.
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The only failing of those is that if the Ubend of the sink waste blocks, the dish washer and washing machine waste will pump up into the sink. However the upside is that the water from the dish washer and washing machine help keep the trap clear :)
The Y piece is a disaster waiting to happen. Just wait for SWMBO delicates being washed in the greasy remains of an Indian fish curry!
Last edited by: pmh on Sat 13 Apr 13 at 15:04
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>> The only failing of those is that if the Ubend of the sink waste blocks,
>> the dish washer and washing machine waste will pump up into the sink.
And when the pump stops the sink should drain ( back into the dish washer?)
>>However the upside is that the water from the dish washer and washing machine help keep the trap clear :)
>>
Spend all them £££s on a fancy machine and then not chuck some soda down the sink ? Soda cost me £1.20 a kilo at my local DIY. Simples!
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I would always prefer to connect the wastes separately to a trap like that. But it all depends on what Crankcase already has.
Water supply Y pieces look like this.
www.wickes.co.uk/invt/421648
Last edited by: Crocks on Fri 12 Apr 13 at 22:33
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OK, I have thought about this a bit more and would recommend you avoid the simple Y piece I linked to at 21.54 above. Unnecessary risk of your dishwasher waste ending up in the washing machine!
Replace the sink trap with one like henry linked, preferably with non-return valves in.
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We have a new-ish Bosch Exxcel. I doesn't dry off the contents properly at the end of the cycle. Apparantly some examples of this model have all-steel liners, some part steel and part plastic. Our installer told us to avoid the latter as they develop leaks along the join.
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We've had a (steel-lined) Bosch Exxcel since April 2005 and it has always worked perfectly - he says, touching the nearest piece of wood! My only criticism is that there is little or no explanation of the various cycles; I'm not sure why the 'economy' cycle is economical, but I know it can take an age i.e. 160 minutes. I guess we use it, on average, 4 times a week.
It was included in the great Bosch (+ Neff + Siemens) recall almost 2 years ago when, I understand that around 500,000 faulty dishwashers were at large throughout the world. Apparently the main control module could catch fire and take the kitchen/house with it! Rather concerning if you like to leave the dishwasher running when you go to bed!
A Bosch technician came and replaced the module in the door panel at no cost to us, though the work sheet stated £271.75 +vat. The original cost of the dishwasher was £282.98.
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*
Last edited by: mikeyb on Sat 13 Apr 13 at 14:37
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In terms of drainage, the washing machine currently feeds into a standpipe. It looks very much like the drawing at the top of this page:
www.doityourself.com/forum/plumbing-piping/354491-what-standpipe.html
So the dishwasher will need to share that.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Sat 13 Apr 13 at 17:24
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Thanks CG. Amazingly that seems to be one I originally linked from Amazon when I was guessing earlier in the thread. As I almost always get the wrong thing,in these circumstances -we have drawers full of half opened wrong things - that is cheery making.
Until someone else pops up and says "ooh, you don't want to do that", just after I've pressed the buy button.
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Save yourself £12 and just hook/insert the 2 pipes into the stand pipe!
But make sure that the pipework can cope with flow rate from 2 machines pumping waste at the same time!
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You probably cant get two discharge hoses into one standpipe and its probably not not advisable. If you squash them in you risk limiting the flow from the machines or worse completely blocking air flow into the standpipe and allowing siphoning to take place.
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I have dishwasher, washing machine & condensing tumble dryer into one.
I don't really see how syphoning, or backflow would be possible. Unless of course the pipe backs-up and AND is airtight at the top.
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>> I have dishwasher, washing machine & condensing tumble dryer into one.
>>
>
I initially read that carelessly as if you had some new combi-appliance that did everything.
I had a delicious vision of the crockery getting spun at 1000 rpm and then tumbled for good measure. :)
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Just throw a few walnut shells in. Gives a lovely finish.
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Dishwasher advice - Bromptonaut
