is a war on ...or just kim getting a bag on?
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An island will get some shells lobbed on it, or a ROK navy ship will get sunk by the DPRK navy, but if no-one retaliates, thats where it will end.
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Who's telling the media what the North Koreans are saying?, who genuinely independent is corroborating those messages as being true and not CIA script.
WMD still ringing in anyone's shell likes?
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>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaKX9YYHiQ
>>
>> Still makes me raugh.
>>
Or, from the same movie the Hans Blix scene:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIPSvIz9NDs
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I don't understand a word of Korean, but I love clips of North Korean news announcers, their vibrant indignation or boundless joy depending on whether it's some imperialist outrage or the leader's birthday being announced.
Bloodshed is always a bit provocative, so I hope no one has it in mind. As for Korean missiles crossing the Pacific and taking out the US's West Coast defences... me don't tink so.
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t>> Who's telling the media what the North Koreans are saying?, who genuinely independent is corroborating
>> those messages as being true and not CIA script.
tune into the DPRK radio and broadcasts.
>> WMD still ringing in anyone's shell likes?
CIA have nothing to gain here. There is no good outcome can be planned from a war there, its in no-ones interests.
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>> Who's telling the media what the North Koreans are saying?, who genuinely independent is corroborating
>> those messages as being true and not CIA script.
>>
>> WMD still ringing in anyone's shell likes?
Of course, Saddam did everything he could to pretend that he did have WMD.
I don't remember the naysayers strongly suggesting that there was no WMD, but rather that you shouldn't attack a "sovereign nation" that hadn't actually attacked you.
Once it became clear that there were no WMD, and that Saddam had simply just been doing everything he could to pretend that he had them tucked away in all the sites he wouldn't give access to, the revisionism started with a vengeance. Then everybody had always known that Saddam had no WMD.
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>> Once it became clear that there were no WMD, and that Saddam had simply just
>> been doing everything he could to pretend that he had them tucked away in all
>> the sites he wouldn't give access to, the revisionism started with a vengeance. Then everybody
>> had always known that Saddam had no WMD.
I wouldn't be surprised to find the same happen if the US or Israel ever attacked Iran, and then discovered that, in fact, it had only ever been a civilian nuclear program.
Oh what a field day they would have on "Have I Got News for You", and how Gorgeous George would bask in the limelight of slagging off Obama...or, Obomba, or OilBomba, as he would be hilariously known as.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Sat 30 Mar 13 at 19:55
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If truth be told, ole kim sung of a gun is a bit miffed that DPRK isn't in the 'Union', and he can't get his mitts on all them luverly €billions, like all the other banksters.
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Maybe the West (inc the Japanese and maybe the Chinese) should start a real hearts and minds on the people. Pour in billions in food-aid etc.
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>> Maybe the West (inc the Japanese and maybe the Chinese) should start a real hearts
>> and minds on the people. Pour in billions in food-aid etc.
Its one of the few countries where forced regime change is probably justified and desirable.
The Chinese will be in there to tidy it up if it goes on too much longer. The West will turn a blind eye by prior arrangement.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 30 Mar 13 at 19:50
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>>Pour in billions in food-aid etc
And there, in a nutshell, is what it's all about, the people are starving, the sanctions are hurting, the big chiefs would never start a war which would erase them from the face of the Earth.
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Food aid to N Korea?
On and off for years..
tinyurl.com/d85nkyh
You don't seriously - I mean seriously - think the N Korean Gov't would ever acknowledge the US has sent it Food Aid?
They'd rather have a war first. Credibility is worth a lot of lives to dicatators,, See Mugabe, etc,, let alone S Hussein
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I dont think anyone really cares if the fat little fella with a bad haircut makes threats or not - he hasnt the weapons to take on anyone of note, unless he has a time machine, which appears to be how he sources his military hardware - when he plays war games it is like watching a museum roll out the exibits.
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I may be wrong but this is how I feel about the entire thing
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY
While it is potentially very serious there is quite a comedy element to it.
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Their military officers have really weird hats!
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>> I dont think anyone really cares if the fat little fella with a bad haircut
>> makes threats or not - he hasnt the weapons to take on anyone of note,
>> unless he has a time machine, which appears to be how he sources his military
>> hardware - when he plays war games it is like watching a museum roll out
>> the exibits.
>>
As opposed to:
DC: Hello FH, can we borrow the aircraft carrier, we seem to be in a bit of a pickle in the Pacific/South Atlantic (take your pick).
FH: Daveed, mon petit pois. What's init for me mate ? Need some nuclear power to fill the shortfall on the grid ? No ? Sorry the aircraft carrier is currently engaging the Rainbow Warrior somewhere warm and exotic.
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>> I dont think anyone really cares if the fat little fella with a bad haircut
>> makes threats or not - he hasnt the weapons to take on anyone of note,
using a very well handled and quiet old submarine, with a very old but efficient and well aimed russian torpedo, they made a very big mess of a fairly modern South korean corvette.
And thats the problem, the stuff they have may be old, obsolete, or old fashioned, but some of it works well enough to be a problem.
Remember Seoul, the heart of South Korea with 20 million people is only 50 miles away form the border, well within range of old obsolete but effective traditional artillery fitted with nerve gas shells.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 30 Mar 13 at 21:00
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Even old military hardware can do real damage if used properly. But the real ace of NK military power is manpower. Very big armies can be used to occupy territory in ways that modern technologised forces can't. That's why people are a bit intimidated by North Korea.
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I wonder if this sabre rattling has started because of a refusal to supply food aid ?
Then North Korea will go quiet once a food aid deal has been struck (like in the past).
I could be wrong and I have no basis to say that food aid has been stopped, just an idea.
Another idea, China is supplying North Korea and wants to make a distraction whilst invading that disputed Japanese island and Taiwan.
Just two schools of thought.
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diddy, look at MacArthur's stance back in the 50s.
he refused Taiwanese aid to the Korean war, because he didn't wish for the Red Chinese to have an excuse for attacking.
Formosa remains a sovereign state, with UN backing up to a point.
And the USA will jump in, boots and all, in the event of aggresion.
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China is exceptionally irritated by North Korea, its a pain on their backside borders wise, and keeps the Yanks mooching about the place with interest. Their annoyance was shown when they joined in condemnation of the last Nuclear test for the first time.
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>> That's why people are a bit intimidated by
>> North Korea.
The goose stepping intimidates me.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwoSFQb5HVk
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While all that is true Zero, those weapons only work in isolation, but up against modern Western kit I doubt it will be much of a threat. Even a quiet old sub makes a noise and ive no doubt the Americans are listening to every sound.
If chunky boy really wanted to actually land a shot his best strategy would have been to give no warning. I suspect this sabre rattling is just that and has far more to do with internal politics than it does with his desire to actually start a fight.
China tolerates NK but ive no doubt they will turn on them in a second if it disrupts their international trade in any way.
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We have the quiet (and fast) subs. No-one else has such designs. The reason: we can't afford to run a big fleet:) I suspect chubby will be soon having his last burger....Either the NK generals will come to their senses, or the SK seals will get him and family eliminated by a tragic accident.
Last edited by: NIL on Sun 31 Mar 13 at 00:08
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>> Either the NK generals will come to their senses, or the SK seals will get him and family eliminated by a tragic accident.
It isn't in anyone's interests to eliminate Kim Jong Un. His missus wears western schmutter. Better the pussy cat you know than the devil you don't, knowImean? Tchah!
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>> >> Either the NK generals will come to their senses, or the SK seals will
>> get him and family eliminated by a tragic accident.
>>
>> It isn't in anyone's interests to eliminate Kim Jong Un. His missus wears western schmutter.
>> Better the pussy cat you know than the devil you don't, knowImean? Tchah!
Quite. Let's not forget that the whole charade is primarily for domestic consumption, to keep the populace nervous and the leaders looking powerful and in control.
By our standards much of it is laughable of course.
I remember a couple of years back when there was some kind of spat and the South Korean president was in some kind of war room, wearing a black leather jacket.
One of the western news agencies managed to find a woman in the street who specifically mentioned that she was happy to see that the president was wearing the correct clothes for the situation and showing that he was powerful. And that was South Korea!
Of course, Putin does the same, riding his motorbikes with his shirt off and shooting bears.
Given that it obviously plays well to a fair chunk of the population, I'm not sure what it says about the average Russian, or South/North Korean.
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>> Given that it obviously plays well to a fair chunk of the population, I'm not
>> sure what it says about the average Russian, or South/North Korean.
>>
>>
>>
It says they know full well what happens to dissidents.
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>> >> Given that it obviously plays well to a fair chunk of the population, I'm
>> not
>> >> sure what it says about the average Russian, or South/North Korean.
>> >>
>> >>
>> It says they know full well what happens to dissidents.
It might explain why they don't go out and protest with an impromptu song in the local church but, in Russia and South Korea at least, it presumably plays well enough to get votes, rather than just been tolerated to avoid the Gulag.
Putin may look like an idiot to us, when he is wrestling a drugged elk, but he obviously knows what the people want.
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"Of course, Putin does the same, riding his motorbikes with his shirt off and shooting bears.
Given that it obviously plays well to a fair chunk of the population, I'm not sure what it says about the average Russian, or South/North Korean."
Good job the electorate here is more sophisticated and our leaders don't indulge in that sort of thing
www.thenational.ae/deployedfiles/Assets/Richmedia/Image/AP860901016.jpg
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Or Cameron riding his bicycle, one of the boys..:) Yes we are sophisticated.
One of the most devious caracters I found was Harold Wilson with his pipe wouldn't trust him as far I could trow him.
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>> Good job the electorate here is more sophisticated and our leaders don't indulge in that
>> sort of thing
>>
>> www.thenational.ae/deployedfiles/Assets/Richmedia/Image/AP860901016.jpg
Oh sure, the old fashioned photo-op with a bit of military hardware.
tinyurl.com/c2jc2ua
tinyurl.com/cy8cflz
Or Cameron showing that he is a man of the people on his bike. All politicians want a bit of a photo-op.
But the level of audience sophistication varies:
tinyurl.com/6zec3b2
tinyurl.com/cjnda64
Especially if you live in Texas, and like you district attorneys to wear stensons...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21986432
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The odd man out in this being Churchill, who would not only have been able ( and probably willing) to use the SMG in anger but had front-line combat experience, something which for good or ill is usually limited to truly great leaders; I use the word "great" advisedly as Hitler of course served in the trenches of WW1. But I'm sure you all understand where I'm coming from.
Every time I see a picture of that little Korean oik I cannot help but think he's probably the most dangerous child in the world.
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Churchill was deeply flawed - his operational "experience" led to the wasted death of thousands in both wars...Great rhetorical war leader...and nawt else sadly.
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I never inferred that he was perfect. But I would suggest that to say that he was all talk does him a great disservice.
Every death in war is a waste.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Sun 31 Mar 13 at 22:47
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>> Churchill was deeply flawed - his operational "experience" led to the wasted death of thousands
>> in both wars...Great rhetorical war leader...and nawt else sadly.
>>
That's enough isn't it? Do you think Neville Chamberlain or Lord Halifax could have done it?
Not exactly brimming with charisma, were they?
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>> Gannex Man - a shyster.
Aye. My Labour views are shaped by those of the late Anthony Crosland. After Gaitskell's death he was presented with what he regarded as an unenviable choice between George Brown and J H Wislon; a drunk or a crook.
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>> I'm not sure what it says about the average Russian, or South/North Korean.
It says they are average. It may seem an obvious point, but we have average people with depressingly average attitudes and responses even here in the West.
Frightfully supercilious because of our dishwashers and vulgar, brutal media. But average for all that. Able to stomach the dominant public discourse and unable to criticise it effectively.
Yup, it's one world all right. We're all in the same boat, like it or not.
(Sour smirk)
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 31 Mar 13 at 20:50
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Re Duckmarine...
As a lifetime boating person I hate anything that is a barely floating brick... like these tour "Ducks" and modern cruise liners.
They were very lucky that nobody got wet or worse... good responses by the driver/captain to avoid that.
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The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh had a trip on a Yellow Duckmarine in May as part of the Diamond Jubilee tour.
The Beeb eh ?
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Hugely and entertainingly indignant NK TV news announcers - are they all moonlighting opera singers? - have been promising (we are told) merciless nuclear armageddon on the US. The media here are encouraging them by talking about NK's 'nuclear arsenal' (two or three large old-fashioned devices perhaps, unsuited to rocket delivery - the equivalent of three old men and a dog).
I can see they might be feeling rattled, with those magnificent giant American batplanes deployed to Guam. They may be stealth bombers but it's seeing them that will put the fear of God into people. They're so black and blind-looking... terrific things.
NK does have a genuine grievance it seems. Perhaps it is time for SK, with US encouragement, to suggest an armistice treaty ending the Korean war? It's possible of course that continuing tension suits everyone better, as it appears to in the much more frightening Middle East.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 24 Apr 13 at 01:00
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not that easy caramelle, did we learn nothing from 1914? 1939? 1950?
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What could you mean zook? Anyway 'we' aren't leading players in Korea. We are in the walk-on crowd playing 'capitalist world', mumbling rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb and wearing horrid grey suits.
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The Prime Minister used this Korea thing - the threat of nuclear annihilation at the hands of the little fat leader - to justify continuing colossal expenditure on maintaining our submarine-based ICBM arsenal.
He kept saying it was 'independent', insisting too much I thought. We don't need ICBMs and these damn things eat up too much defence money. It would be better spent on conventional surface ships, boots on the ground and their necessary kit. We can afford aircraft and cruise missile delivery systems for whatever nuclear deterrent capacity we think we need. That might be genuinely independent too.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 5 Apr 13 at 00:47
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>> It would be better spent
>> on conventional surface ships, boots on the ground and their necessary kit. We can afford
>> aircraft and cruise missile delivery systems for whatever nuclear deterrent capacity we think we need.
All these things are vulnerable to a first strike, and therefore not a genuine deterrent. Also they do not have the unimaginable firepower of a Trident submarine. The chance of us using nuclear weapons without the USAs OK is negligible in my opinion.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 4 Apr 13 at 21:13
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>> The chance of us using nuclear weapons without the USAs OK is negligible in my opinion.
One has to hope that the probability of our having to use it at all is negligible. But of course Trident is a US system. It isn't independent, which is why it seems a bit much that we have to pay for it.
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The USA isn't daft, they get a boost to their nuclear strike capability at our expense.
Personally I think it is an expense we can do without, a nuclear submarine with a nuclear armed cruise missile would ruin your whole day.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 4 Apr 13 at 21:30
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The Nuclear deterrent c/o Yes Minister.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX_d_vMKswE
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Exactly. You only need a nuclear deterrent because your enemies have nuclear weapons.
France has the bomb, therefore the UK needs it too.
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>> a nuclear submarine with a nuclear armed cruise missile would ruin your whole day.
Well exactly ON.
We aren't going to disagree radically with Russia, China, India, Pakistan or the US, and if we do we will try to keep quiet about it. So we simply don't need very long-range nuclear capacity.
If we ever (God forbid) need to use or threaten to use these things, it will be against people who can't shut us down with a first strike and who can be reached with sophisticated conventional delivery systems.
In the early sixties, with the real war still a recent memory, there was genuine fear of nuclear armageddon, one thing leading to another until kablooie!
Anyone who hasn't seen Stanley Kubrick's movie Doctor Strangelove should see it. Great dark fun.
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>I can see they might be feeling rattled, with those magnificent giant American batplanes deployed to Guam.
The US are also moving their SBX missile defense radar and a THAAD missile battery from Pearl Harbour to Guam.
I think that the Chinese military won't be too happy about having a US missile defense system in their backyard with Kim giving them a perfectly valid excuse for being there. It poses a direct threat to their own nuclear deterrent.
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112.170.78.145:50000/chosun
Great music, emotional commentary, smiles everywhere. Good lord, after ten minutes thoughts of the Dear Leader had faded from my mind to be replaced by an overwhelming joy at the sight of the Second Supreme Leader.
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>> Great music, emotional commentary, smiles everywhere.
Same tactics Christianity has been using to brainwash the masses for 2 millenia. Except the smiling bit.
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This is a total non-event for the South Koreans I work and interact with on a daily basis. Kim Jong-un and his cohorts are widely regarded as a bit of a joke. The mood is very much of business as usual. That said, there isn't much that diverts the South Koreans from business as usual....
Last edited by: DP on Wed 10 Apr 13 at 11:42
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.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 10 Apr 13 at 15:13
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I was walking the dog round your place yesterday. I kept a close eye on her in case she ended up on the menu.
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The TV feed I posted yesterday (and have been watching on odd occasions for several weeks) has today gone down.
Brace yourselves.
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>> The TV feed I posted yesterday (and have been watching on odd occasions for several
>> weeks) has today gone down.
>>
>> Brace yourselves.
Somebody probably plugged a toaster in at the TV station and blew the fuse for the transmitter.
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they failed to pay their isp bill.
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korean sabre rattling - Zero
