***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 4 *****
Continuing discussion.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 23 Apr 13 at 10:21
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I was listening the other day to David Starkey a historian about politics.
He more or less stated that we are in a total mess and if the politicians do not get their act together quickly the people would do it for them.
Scary thought for the future.
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Listening to Nigel Farage, addressing the UKIP conference. He speaks well and most of what he says about the state of country and its infra-structure rings true. I am not sure if I agree with their manifesto but he knows what our problems are. A bit short on answers though, so far.
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>> Listening to Nigel Farage, addressing the UKIP conference. He speaks well and most of what
>> he says about the state of country and its infra-structure rings true. I am not
>> sure if I agree with their manifesto but he knows what our problems are. A
>> bit short on answers though, so far.
>>
It is how I see it too....although he is at least willing to say what others are not.
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Good strong speech, from a good strong speaker ... he's not over-fond of Van Rompuy though is he :)
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>>or David Cameron <<
Is anyone?
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Very fond of himself though.
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To go from 3% to polling at 16-17% in two years I should hope he is. Whether you agree with the politics or not, it is quite a rise in fortunes and there is little doubt that he has a great deal to do with it.
Last edited by: FoR on Mon 25 Mar 13 at 15:45
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I'd bet he'll be nearer 3% than 17% at the next General Election.
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How much? To be nearer it would need to be 9% or less, so that would still be three times more than 2010 at that level. Want to make a more accurate prediction?
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No. But I'll offer £10 to the charity of your choice if UKIP poll 9.0% or higher nationally at the next GE. Care to reciprocate, for a bit of fun?
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I dont gamble, it is against my faith but I will donate £10 regardless of the result in 2015 and you can do as you suggest yourself.
I will come here and say I am a hopeless political romantic and I know nothing though :-)
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>> it is against my faith
Bit of a gamble that, I hope your God exists and doesn't like gambling.
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>>Bit of a gamble that, I hope your God exists and doesn't like gambling <<
Well if my God doesnt exist then ive just saved myself some money to spend on other things. I dont smoke or drink either, same principle applies :-)
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But imagine if he exists and it turns out he invented gambling on purpose!
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Many would argue that satan invented it, garden of eden and all that.
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>>Many would argue that Satan invented it, garden of Eden and all that.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnaUvPoiTfQ
^_^
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A By-election coming up in South Shields as David Milliband quits Parliament to run a charity in the USA.
Safe Labour seat, but could be interesting.
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The electorate would elect a monkey with a red rosette.. Oh hang on, Miliband loves bananas..
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>> The electorate would elect a monkey
You may jest, but the North Easterners have form on that score. Hartlepool.
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>> >> The electorate would elect a monkey
>>
>> You may jest, but the North Easterners have form on that score. Hartlepool.
>>
Hartlepool prompted my remark..
Too much inbreeding with primates.
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I've had an earworm ever since I heard the news this morning:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWfu6rslHDs
I wonder who's pulling his strings?
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Should we be
A. Proud that our country is so governed by law that even when our elected govt want to take action on a possible threat, the courts wont allow it.
B. Worried that our Govt cannot have final say on matters like this?
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>> Should we be
>>
>> A. Proud that our country is so governed by law that even when our elected
>> govt want to take action on a possible threat, the courts wont allow it.
>> B. Worried that our Govt cannot have final say on matters like this?
A. AQ is a knotty problem but we should compartmentalise (a) protecting UK citizens and (b) sending anybody to face suspect justice. If the actions of Ministers are not subject to checks and balances then we live in a dictatorship and it's not just the rights of bearded foreigners that are at risk.
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What has AQ done? And why is there no trial in the UK if he is that quilty? Just wondering.
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Abu Qutada is a humorist. He hasn't actually 'done' anything that can be proved but has 'inappropriate material' on his computer and is said to have talked a lot of pernicious twaddle to disaffected Muslim halfwits, some of whom may have done or tried to do bad things.
One assumes he is being monitored in every way imaginable and a few that aren't. It might save money and add to the national level of glee to promote him officially to the status of National Treasure and give him a grace and favour apartment in Kensington Palace with plenty of room for spare wives and concubines. I only suggest this because my earlier proposal that he should be made police and crime commissioner for the capital was humiliatingly ignored. Backroom jiggery-pokery no doubt. These people know no shame.
The Matt cartoon on the front page of today's comic made me laugh.
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For anyone who IS interested and wants to attend, Nigel will be in Northants on the 10th.
Not sure about the times for everywhere, but he will be at Corby Cube at 10:30am so Im told. Im thinking I might go along, just to get a feel for it though public gatherings arent my thing.
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Good cartoon at his expense in Private Eye last week...:-)
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>> For anyone who IS interested and wants to attend, Nigel will be in Northants on
>> the 10th.
>>
....and on the 9th. April - in Gainsborough at 11:00 am, Lincoln at 12:00am and in the evening a meeting in Boston.
Last edited by: Roger on Tue 2 Apr 13 at 18:14
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Oh - and any one living in the Nottinghamshire County Council electoral division of Blyth & Harworth can vote for ME on May2nd! ;-)
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Mr V.
I'm sure you realise this but....
By posting about standing Blyth and Harworth you've made your full name and home address visible to all on this site who care to look up the nominations on Bassetlaw Council's website.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 22 Apr 13 at 10:12
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Yes I know - but my full name and address is pretty much public knowledge just by standing, It's published in a good few places!
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Nige was in Cornwall today speaking to Laurence Reed on Radio Cornwall.
Laurence is a hard-nosed journo of many years standing - Nige didn't come orf to well IMO.
Move cursor along to approx. 1.02pm: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p016b9hb interview lasts about 10 mins.
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Just listened to that D, the resident DJ comes across as someone trying to ape Paxman and failing miserably.
I'm surprised Farage put up with the frankly silly questioning about managing on whatever figure of benefit and pension at the end of the interview, that interview wasted much valuable time when it could have been about something important not a media storm in a teacup.
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>>Just listened to that D, the resident DJ comes across as someone trying to ape Paxman and failing miserably
Good point gb, I just don't think Farage handled the question too well re: living on £53 pw gord,
whether it was a silly question or not, shame really, as he was doing quite well up to then.
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shame really, as he was doing quite well up to then.
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I'm impressed that Nige didn't tell him exactly what he is D, the question was pointless and became embarrasing to listen to when he kept on and on trying to do his very own Paxo..
To be fair to Nige he doesn't go for cheap point scoring unlike his adversaries, he could have scored some political points by joining in the media hoo haa against IDS, but i have an inkling he's a cut above that.
Course he does reserve his most scathing attacks for Cast Iron Unelected Dave who deserves every one...;)
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>>I'm impressed that Nige didn't tell him exactly what he is D, the question was pointless and became embarrasing to listen to when he kept on and on trying to do his very own Paxo..
That's Laurence Reed's style gb, he gets up my nose sometimes (via the wireless) basically a good man though who has his heart 'in the right place', he does an awful lot for Cornwall/charity ... even you could get to like him ;)
I still stand by what I said though - Farage didn't do himself any favours by the way he 'came over' on Radio Cornwall.
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I thought he did OK - but what was the point of repeatedly asking him if he could live on £53 a week?
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>> I thought he did OK - but what was the point of repeatedly asking him
>> if he could live on £53 a week?
>>
Presumably to get him to answer the question instead of evading it. Better still, contrast £53 a week with his claims for a couple of meals in Strasbourg/Brussels.
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Because it's thelatest question to ask politicians
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Farage hasn't been the one finger pointing at the low paid or benefit claimants as the cause of the nations ills, so quite what the point of the silly questioning was i can't fathom.
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The big dude next to Farage is Bruce baby Robinson - Lord Trago, of Trago Mills fame.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_OPf6SNlVo
Last edited by: Dog on Wed 3 Apr 13 at 09:47
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>> www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Standing-room-UKIP-leader-Nigel-Farage-starts-UK/story-18595284-detail/story.html#axzz2PCCIR31y
>>
>> See also the comments at the bottom of the article.
Yes - the commentators obviously have an agenda themselves!
However, if what they say about questioners being shouted down is true, that is unnecessary and is to be deplored.
Even die-hard opponents have a right to be heard.
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>>if what they say about questioners being shouted down is true, that is unnecessary and is to be deplored.
I'll have to ask my m8 about that Dodger, as he was there.
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And m8 says:
"I agree that there was no real substance to his policies as outlined yesterday.
He relies on his charisma and he is using lowest common denominator issues to attract previously non voting people, rather like some little Austrian bloke did back in the thirties.
I mean, I felt a little uncomfortable standing there yesterday listening to all them Cornish farmers baying for blood, and I'm only half Polish!
^_^
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I've just received the "absent voters", i.e. postal voters list, for the division I am standing in the CC elections.
There are over 1300 names on this list = about 20% of the electorate. There are whole families on the list.
This cannot be right! The whole system needs a re-make!
Last edited by: Roger on Thu 11 Apr 13 at 13:01
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That surprised me Dog you being half Polish South London lad.Son on law is Polish hard working lad .Gdanks we carried timber to Scarborough through Kiel Canal heavy cargo decklast.Long time ago.
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Nay Dutchie, I'm as cockney as pie and mash, it's my friend (m8) in Plymouth that is arf a Pole ;)
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arf a Pole is that the Queens English Dog ..;) A true blue Cockney not many of them about .
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I knew Arthur Pole - he was an Italian.
;>)
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Er, that would be Artù Polo then (or Arthurus Polus)
;)
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>> I knew Arthur Pole - he was an Italian.
>>
>> ;>)
There's a bloke calling himself Arfur Towcrate who writes to the papers from time to time.
He'll be from Staffordshire!!
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First UKIP Election Broadcast tomorrow (Mon 15th) on BBC2 (17.55), ITV (18.25) and BBC1 (18.55).
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>> First UKIP Election Broadcast tomorrow (Mon 15th) on BBC2 (17.55), ITV (18.25) and BBC1 (18.55).
>>
And what a load of pony it was. It was a real case of "you want jam? we'll give it to you - how much do you want and what flavour"
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As opposed to the George Osborne "I have a cunning plan on deficit, gone by 2015 I tell you".
I like jam. You say it as if the other parties somehow have all the answers. None of them do, that is politics, but I would rather vote for BS I like than that which I dont.
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I switched off when Mr Vuvuzela uttered the expression 'year on year', which made me notice that he was wearing a red, or reddish, tie.
The fellow is a closet labour MP Rastaman! Haven't you twigged yet?
:o}
(Oh, and has anyone else noticed that he bobs up on tiptoe every ten seconds or so, like a uniformed copper emerging from a public convenience while resettling his regulation long johns?)
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 17 Apr 13 at 15:43
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"The more I listen to Nigal Farage, the more I am persuaded.
UKIP has absolutely no electoral chance of power, but just to hear someone tell it like it is (even though most will not listen) is really refreshing politics.
From the beginning of this thread, many have said that the raid was nothing short of (legalised?) theft. It is one thing for us ordinary folk to say such things. Farage is the only politician of any persuasion in any EU state that I have heard actually say it - and in the EU chamber too! Bravo!"
Lifted from the Cyprus expat forum in reply to Dodgers link.
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Fraid I wont be voting for any uKippers in the local elections Dodger, we ain't got a candy date down here.
We have ze choice of Cons, Fibdems, or Mebyon Kernow (The Party for Cornwall) so I'll vote for the latter.
No Labour candy date down here either, thankfully.
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Sounds like a right khazi if you don't mind my saying so Perro. Not even a tin miners' liberation front I ask you, just a bunch of monster raving loonies...
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You're probably quite correct on that score Sire, I suppose I could always vote for en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Gof
:}
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We do have some stalwarts down by there!
ukip.org/page/cornwall-candidates
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Quite a few then it seems, and some good old Cornish surnames too, it'll be interesting to see how they fare.
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Self determination for Cornwall ho ho ho.
"It is our belief that the historic nation of Cornwall, with its own distinct identity, language and heritage, has the same right to self-determination as Scotland and Wales."
Could say the same about anywhere really. A free and independent Norfolk. We have our own language too - its called Anglish. Just that everyone else started using it
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I had to laugh to myself reading what a UKIP supporter was saying about how UKIP is a libertarian party. I dont know how someone who knows what libertarianism is could say that really and my take on UKIP and libertarianism is that it is more a general nod towards a much smaller state as opposed to the hardline libertarian views that some supporters seem to hold, but I fear they wont be getting what they want any time soon.
Watching old Labour, social conservatives and libertarians thrash it out is all good fun, though luckily they seem to find more glue holding them together than you would expect which I do not fully understand, perhaps as one suggested it is the libertarian view of letting people be themselves and being ok with disagreeing on some things.
What is your take on how libertarianism fits into UKIP Roger?
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Libertarianism in its extreme form is, I think, more akin to Anarchism.
UKIP believes in smaller government, but not to the extent that society espouses the "every man for himself" idea which seems to be the Libertarians thrust.
True, in the UKIP website there is a reference to UKIP being libertarian, but I think that is rather a hangover from older ideas which were prevalent at one time.
The party is evolving and frankly, is having to be more pragmatic, while striving to keep the idealism shown by its members. A bit of a balancing act.
We are enrolling members from all the "old" parties and from people who have never been members of a political party.
The only people we will not accept are and I quote:-
"Membership is not available to anyone who is or has previously been a member of the British National Party, National Front, British Freedom Party, British People's Party, English Defence League, Britain First or the UK First Party."
Several members, particularly in Young Independence, have quit UKIP on the grounds that it is "not libertarian", so I reckon that in answer to your question - No we are not a true libertarian party, but we retain some libertarian leanings!
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Any one tried the Political Compass?
www.politicalcompass.org/
Needless to say, I'm coming out towards the edge of the lower left quadrant.
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Economic L/R 3.38
Social Libeertarian/Authoritarian 2
Upper right quadrant , but towards the bottom left hand corner of it.
Whatever that means!
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My scores were:
Left/Right -8.8
Libertarian/Authoritarian -6.51
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Very curious, first time I have ever tried to quantify my politics. I like it!
Economic L/R 2.5
Libertarian/Authoritarian -0.51
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I got fed up with the test.
There should be a box "This question is based upon a false premise".
From page 2, I just clicked all 'disagrees' or 'agrees' on each page regardless of what I thought. It is not possible to leave a box empty.
I got just above the horizontal line and just to the left of the vertical line.
Whatever that makes me!
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Economic Left/Right: -1.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.05
So i ended up in the same spot as Duncan above and slightly left of the crosshairs despite answering as truthfully as possible.
Some question didn't have a none of the above answer which should have been available for many.
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>> I got fed up with the test.
>>
>> There should be a box "This question is based upon a false premise".
>>
>> From page 2, I just clicked all 'disagrees' or 'agrees' on each page regardless of
>> what I thought. It is not possible to leave a box empty.
It works like those psychometric tests employers sometimes use to sort recruits. It doesn't pay to think to much about the questions. The test is looking for gut responses and will cross check those by asking two or three similar questions designed to test the same views.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 22 Apr 13 at 10:18
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Economic Left/Right: -0.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.51
Make me very center-ist Politically and Socially.
Guess that make me the most balanced one here.
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>> Guess that make me the most balanced one here.
pfffft...:-)
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>> Economic Left/Right: -0.75
>> Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.51
>>
>> Make me very center-ist Politically and Socially.
>>
>>
>> Guess that make me the most balanced one here.
>>
Or a fence-sitter. :-)
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Economic Left/Right 0.38
Soc Lib/Auth -0.54
Which would make me slightly more balanced than Zero.
Something I have long suspected.
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Economic Left/Right: -3.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.26
^_^
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Economic Left/Right: -4.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.03
Bottom left quadrant. Just about exactly the same spot as the Dalai Lama. :-)
Interesting to see there's barely a fag paper between Cameron and Miliband, up there in the right upper quadrant. Wonder where Cleggy and Cable are?
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out in the cold where they always are.
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Yeah, they must be absolutely freezing as British Deputy Prime Minister and Business Secretary.
* eye roll smiley *
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Both offices have the heating turned off, the phones dont work, and no names on the doors.
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Economic Left/Right: -2.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
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I just did it on behalf of The Reverend Ian Paisley.
Economic Left/Right: -2.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 7.23
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>> I just did it on behalf of The Reverend Ian Paisley.
>>
>>
>> Economic Left/Right: -2.12
>> Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 7.23
LOL
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I just did it as I thought a wet Leftie might do it.
Economic Left/Right -8.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -9.49
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Economic Left/Right: -3.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.33
I doubt if the results will surprise many on this forum ;-).
"Just a bit of fun" though. Probably a simplified version of a bigger and more in-depth test.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22220345
Get ready to pay your fair share of tax for a change you pensioners who apparently have never had it so good.
Now where's me pikestaff mace and shield?
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22220345
>>
>> Get ready to pay your fair share of tax for a change you pensioners who
>> apparently have never had it so good.
>>
>> Now where's me pikestaff mace and shield?
That may only be the beginning. If benefit cuts are to save a truly meaningful amount then the 50% of the Social Security budget that goes to those over working age has to bear its share as well.
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Politicians know that there are a lot of pensioners and a high proportion of them use their votes. No such thing as a brave politician.
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>> Politicians know that there are a lot of pensioners and a high proportion of them
>> use their votes. No such thing as a brave politician.
Indeed. Which I read as meaning they'll lie and spin.
As in 'no more top down reform of the NHS'.
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22220345
>>
>> Get ready to pay your fair share of tax for a change you pensioners who
>> apparently have never had it so good.
>>
>> Now where's me pikestaff mace and shield?
quote
Better-off older people should pay tax at the same rate as younger people on similar incomes, a think tank argues.
Now for the life of me, I cant see a problem with that goal.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 22 Apr 13 at 21:27
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There are an awful lot of older people (including me!), but leafleting today around our immediate vicinity, I was struck by how many inhabitants of housing association stock are obviously, judging by grab handles, inclined slopes and handrails, in a pretty infirm condition.
Not many people about, but a good response from those we did see. We had a friendly chat - civilised - with a couple of Conservative leafleters, both incensed by gay marriage and both Euro-sceptics, but still sticking stubbornly to their traditional party, although underwhelmed by D. Cameron.
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I shall probably regret this, but I don't understand the noise about gay marriage.
For example, the Catholic religion believes that gay, sexual relationships are wrong. If I was Gay, then I wonder why I would make such a furor about being married by a religion that I presumably don't believe in and forcing them to do it against their beliefs and will.
Or is it that the Gay person(s) concerned does believe themselves to be Catholic, and its just that bit they don't agree with. In which case why don't they start their own spin-off, why force someone else's beliefs? Especially since I suspect you're not allowed to pick and choose.
As it happens I am not religious, don't like the church and have no interest in whether or not people are gay together, gay married or whatever.
But if I was religious and did attend Church, I don't see why I should be forced to accept any beliefs other than my own and those of my religion. Isn't that the whole point?
I might just as well insist that a Muslim organisation marry me whilst I maintain my right to be a drinker and pork eater. (let me be clear, there is *NO* pun there).
What is the big point here for gay people? The point for religious people is obvious.
And whatever has it got to do with a Government anyway?
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>
>> And whatever has it got to do with a Government anyway?
No idea, Didn't maggie sell them off?
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Amusing speech from the Kiwi parliament about their own gay marriage law just being passed:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl8oKO7BAuU
Gay marriage = not a jot of change to the world inhabited by straight people.
Not a jot.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 23 Apr 13 at 00:45
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>
>> And whatever has it got to do with a Government anyway?
Apart from the obvious point that governments think everything is their business, there's the fact that as well as a religious sacrament for those so minded, marriage in our society involves a civil contract endorsed by government. Or am I wrong?
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>> I shall probably regret this, but I don't understand the noise about gay marriage.
>>
Don't see why you should regret it, some warrior with an axe to grind might manage to be offended but there's a whole offence industry out there ready to do so on their behalf.
An entirely sensible common sense point of view as far as i can see.
We have the case of people openly hostile to the church and have no religion who cannot see the irony of then demanding that they be allowed to marry in church, sheer hypocrisy, this applies to all people not just insistent gay publicity seekers.
Being a lapsed Catholic who unless feeling particulary troubled only visits church for funerals and weddings, SWMB and i felt it would be hypocritical to ask to be married in church and were instead wed at the registry office.
My son and his wife who did wed in church and will be having their daughter baptised this year for genuine reasons do attend frequently.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 23 Apr 13 at 07:48
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Stu/GB
I don't know if you've followed it but Lygonos's link is well worth the 4 minutes or so it runs for. As one of the gay members on CycleChat who linked it yesterday said - we need more MP's like that over here.
The gay marriage law proposed in the UK does not force any church to celebrate such unions. It does allow those religions/sects that wish to to do so. The Quakers and some reform Synagogues have indicated they might. As far as the established church goes it will be 'protected' from doing same sex marriages by a legal lock requiring further legislation to undo it*.
As AC say it's primarily about the Civil side of marriage and allowing same sex couples the same civil rights and terminology as straight couples. Labour should have had the courage to do that when they introduced Civil Partnership and it's to their enduring shame that they did not.
* Caveat alert. The true cynics suggest Cameron is playing long politics here. It's probable that the lock on the CofE will be challenged on ECHR grounds with a win in Strasbourg possible. He than has the Church on his side in a move to withdraw from the Convention.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 23 Apr 13 at 08:27
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>> it will be 'protected' from doing same sex marriages by a legal lock requiring further
>> legislation to undo it*.
Problem is Bromp that there will always be attention seeking troublemakers, such as those who deliberately chose a Guest House run by an old fashioned Christian couple to vent their spleen on.
Such boring warriors won't be happy until they force their minority views concerning church weddings at all churches onto everyone else.
Obviously they won't try this at a Mosque, the majority sensible Muslim members simply wouldn't stand for it, and nor could i blame them.
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>> Problem is Bromp that there will always be attention seeking troublemakers, such as those who
>> deliberately chose a Guest House run by an old fashioned Christian couple to vent their
>> spleen on.
True but the militant outliers are there either way. Lorry driving might be different but being an 'out' civil servant is no deal at all. There must be half a dozen amongst the 50-60 people with whom I work. They just live with a him or a her instead of a her or a him!!
Why should they not be allowed the right to a proper marriage like their straight brethren?
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>> Why should they not be allowed the right to a proper marriage like their straight
>> brethren?
Think you might have me or my attitude confused Bromp, i know gay lorry drivers, there are gay people in my life, i have no problem with them, indeed i often find them deep close warm people often more tolerant of others weaknesses and fun to be with, at least those who don't take themselves too seriously which might be where the problems start.
Indeed from personal observation, the lack of care affection understanding and companionship shown by many men towards the women then i'm only surprised that more females haven't found comfort/companionship with other women...thats only my view by the way but it does stirke a cord when i've aired it to gay females.
No doubt the same could apply with the way some females behave towards men, and treat their supposed loved ones.
The people i do have a problem with are hypocrites, those of all persuasions who are indifferent to religion, are non believers and sometimes hostile critics of those who are (and we've seen their searing scorn aired here many times) yet fail to see the heavy irony and hypocrisy of the big church wedding presided over by a man of the cloth.
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Sorry GB I misread you as someone finding reasons why marriage should not be allowed for 'them'.
Funny you should mention women seeking comfort/companionship with their own sex. A former colleague did just that and comments that the greatest comfort is to come home to somebody who's interested!
I'm as searing about religion as I am about right wing politics. For that reason alone I'd not go near getting wed in a Church. OTOH if Miss B wanted to (and her b/f is from a family with religious conviction) I'd comply with pleasure.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 23 Apr 13 at 09:55
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>> just that and comments that the greatest comfort is to come home to somebody who's
>> interested!
Thats the point Bromp, far too many men haven't a clue.
Point in case, another forum i frequent for lorry drivers, discussion about nights away and long hours detracting from home and family life and relationship, which it does and i have always tried my damndest to get home whatever it entails, you wouldn't believe the strokes that have been pulled..;)
One chap complaining bitterly mentioned that his home life/relationship was suffering, indeed that very evening he was stuck in his lorry and had received a phone calll from his mates about meeting down the pub....he couldn't go.....because he was stuck in the lorry..:-))
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>> ........... I don't understand the noise about gay marriage.
Nor me. It's not as if the participants will procreate and pass their homosexuality on to future generations. tinyurl.com/cf4lx45
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>> judging by .......... inclined slopes .............
We have an inclined slope up to our front door. The angle of the incline is zero.
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Politics/putting the world to rights thread. Vol 3 - Dutchie
