king richard 111 remains found in leicester car park confirmed
i live just around the corner from the car park so took a slight interest
question... should his remains be buried in westminster abbey... or in the grounds of leicester cathedral?
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Just saw a nice Tweet:
King Richard is not the first Englishman to wait a very long time to exit a multi-story car park!
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I think King Dick should have been left where he was, I mean, what's the point of being buried if some clowns gonna dig you up at a later date and fiddle about with your bones.
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His brother Edward IV is buried in St George's Chapel, Windsor castle.
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No doubt some loony leftie will insist Cameron apologises during PMQ's for Dicks death hundreds of years ago or will ask for a public inquiry costing £3million.
;-)
Last edited by: TheManWithNoName on Mon 4 Feb 13 at 13:34
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Does there have to be an inquest?
If not, what is the cut-off age for the discovery of human remains?
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I was being sarcastic Cliff but actually you may have a point. There may have to be a coroners inquest at least to ensure the body is as old as claimed. I've watched Time Team's in the past where they've suspended digging after finding bones and need to be sure they are not 'recent'.
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>> I was being sarcastic Cliff
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Yes, I know. Good point.
Actually it's getter harder to be nicely sarcastic nowadays because every absurdity one pokes fun at really does come true after a while.
If people in the 21st century can seriously think it means anything to apologise for their ancestors' actions in supporting slavery or the crusades then perhaps decendants of Lancastrians really ought to apologise to Yorkists, and vice versa.
I'll start the ball rolling by apologising for being a Norman.
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I'm probably Norman French so it's a 'Sorry!' from me too.
I just had a thought. I wonder if they'll make the distant living relative pay for his exhumation and reburial?
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"because every absurdity one pokes fun at really does come true after a while."
I remember the old ragmag gag.....
Q. Should a married couple be frank and earnest?
A. No - one of them should be a woman.
Doesn't work any more, does it?!
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>> I'll start the ball rolling by apologising for being a Norman.
Yeah, I would have said you were a right Norman....
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>> I'll start the ball rolling by apologising for being a Norman.
>>
I'm glad you've had the Wisdom to do that Sire.
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when i used to work in the building trade a few years back we had to stop a job because the groundworkers dug up some bones ...the coddy had to inform the police and the corona in case they were human remains
also one of our tipper truck drivers was " weighing in" some lead he found on a job on an old graveyard site
he was found dead at the wheel of his truck whilst on his dinner break not long after
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Cracking report on Today this morning. They say that the finders had a hunch where he was...!
The guy who bumped him off may well have been Welsh. May not have fired the fatal arrow - but a good story nonetheless
If the Welsh poet Guto'r Glyn is to believed, it was Rhys ap Thomas (1448-1525) who killed King Richard III on the battlefield at Bosworth on 22nd August 1485.
In the process his kinsman Henry Tudor became Henry VII and inaugurated the age of the Tudor dynasty.
Rhys ap Thomas became Sir Rhys ap Thomas just three days after this battle and under the patronage of both Henry VII and his son Henry VIII he became the most powerful man in south Wales. (The modern Dynevor peerage can trace its ancestry directly back to this warrior, the most influential Welshman in south Wales since the Lord Rhys three hundred years earlier).
The Tudors are from Anglesey - don't mess with Islanders..
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"The Tudors are from Anglesey"
Henry VII was born in Pembroke castle I believe
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Interesting RP but you have to admit the association with Anglesey is pretty remote. If I'm reading this correctly we are saying that Henry VII"s great, great, grandfather Tudor ap Goronwy once had property in Pennmynydd which he lost.
Henry VII was certainly born in Pembroke castle, you can still visit the room where he was born. He spent much of his life in Brittany before usurping the English throne after the battle of Bosworth.
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Deleted - duplicate post re tonight's prog on Channel 4
Last edited by: Meldrew on Mon 4 Feb 13 at 18:17
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talking of digging up interesting artifacts... have those spitfires materialised yet ?
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>> talking of digging up interesting artifacts... have those spitfires materialised yet ?
They dont exist, everyone has gone home.
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Its a fantastic tale for sure, now are the jocks going to cough were they buried they Roman Legion of the 9th - IX Hispana?
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it was only a hunch then zeddo?
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A flight of fancy. Pie in the Sky...
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Perhaps if they send the team that found Dick 3 to Burma?
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King Richard remains should be buried in York Minster.
Apparantly that where the King wishes.
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Will he be taken by horse though? Or was he really calling for a hearse?
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>> was he really calling for a hearse?
Tee hee Biggles... In the highly entertaining Olivier Richard III movie, he does this wonderful Olivier Belgravia Cockney thing on meeting the two evil toerags he sends to murder someone or other, First and Second Murderers.
Glowing with insincere bonhomie, he cries: "How now, my hearty stout resolvéd mates?"
That's a terrific Shakespeare movie as long as you can stomach a bit of Tudor propaganda. Olivier is fantastic in it, has one in fits of evil laughter.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 4 Feb 13 at 20:43
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Richard, soliloquizing: 'Simple, good Clarence, I do love thee so that I will shortly send thy soul to Heaven... '
(Aside, smirking in a snooty royal way) ' ... if Heaven will receive it at our hands.'
Has you rolling on the floor.
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>> Henry VII was certainly born in Pembroke castle, you can still visit the room where
>> he was born.
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His mother was 14.
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Who was his dad ? Savile de Begerac ?
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Richard the third killed by the Tudors.The true royalty came from Yorkshire.
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those yorkists get on my wick... they even claim robin hood was from yorkshire, and we all know he lived in nottingham ...west bridgeford i think?
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They are now arguing over his bones, and want them in York Minster. Leicester wants to keep them.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 5 Feb 13 at 15:43
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we aint givin up dem bones.... semper eadem... always the same.. our bones we aint given em away
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He died near Leicester, he has been "buried" there for 400+ years, the Uni did the legwork and research. I think he should be buried in Leicester Cathedral.
Last edited by: Meldrew on Tue 5 Feb 13 at 17:02
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Was he not Catholic? Aren't all the option inappropriate? That is if you're religious but I take it he might have been.
I do wonder if the cathedrals all want him to raise income from tourism. York for instance charges a small fortune to get inside. Best to go when it's free (e.g. when there's something religious going on inside).
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 5 Feb 13 at 18:11
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Maybe all those 'institutions' which want a piece of him can do so.
York can have his fingers, Leicester his toes, Canterbury can have his skull etc.
Be a bit like medieval churches all claiming to have Christs finger bones or a piece of the one true cross.
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>> Was he not Catholic?
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Everybody's ancestor was a catholic then. We're not going to exhume everyone from old churches and graveyards and re-bury them in modern catholic graveyards.
He was King of England and should be reburied with respect in one of the various traditional resting places of our kings.
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>> I do wonder if the cathedrals all want him to raise income from tourism. York for instance charges a small fortune to get inside. Best to go when it's free (e.g. when there's something religious going on inside.........................Choirboys!!
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What Island? You have a bridge...............Pah!
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I have noticed there is lots of micky taken and jokes about this king.
I wonder if it is to protect
the Tudors.He died in combat had the guts to fight and got hacked to death.
His remains should be moved to York as a Yorkshireman.
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He was no more a Yorkshireman than you are an Englishman Dutchie. He was born in Fotheringhay Castle in Northamptonshire. His father was Richard Plantagenet, 3rd Duke of York, 6th Earl of March, 4th Earl of Cambridge, and 7th Earl of Ulster,
He certainly spent a good deal of his life in Yorkshire and that was where his power base was but he wouldn't have been allowed to play cricket for Yorkshire.
I suppose Richard III has always been portrayed as a sort of comic book villein - mainly due to the Shakespeare play I suppose and hence the jokes - a bit like booing the villein in a pantomime.
The intriguing thing about Richard are the unanswered questions around him coming to power and in particular what happened to his nephew Edward, the legitimate heir and his brother. Circumstantial evidence implicates him fairly strongly in their probable murder in the Tower of London .
And there you have it, was he a power hungry child murderer or just and brave monarch slandered by the Tudors. Well we now know they were right in one thing - he did have a hunched back!
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No doubt most will have seen the programme yesterday about the dig. Apart from the emotional blonde lady who seemed to half-believe she actually is Richard III, although she is just a senior member of his fan club, the interesting comments came from an academic historian.
He said that during his short reign Richard III was a responsible, respected and liked monarch, a good ruler. He casually added that he probably did have the little princes murdered, but that was just politics (like his other high-profile victim the Duke of Clarence who didn't get a mention that I heard). The wickedness was highlighted and the beneficent rule shoved under the carpet by the Tudors after his death, helped by their propagandists including Shakespeare.
What did I say in the Hooner thread? Politicians have a wicked side because it is necessary, but power if gained can be used in a good way. That is the way the world still is.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 6 Feb 13 at 23:52
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Yes. To use power for good, first you have to get and hang on to the power.
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"Apart from the emotional blonde lady"
What a strange woman she was. I think where was only there because the Richard III society had helped fund the excavation. I noticed several of the archaeologists trying hard not to laugh at her emotional outbursts and stunts like draping Richard III's standard over a cardboard box of then unidentified bones.
The program could have been a lot better with more history and science and less emotional twaddle and jokey presenting. The story is hugely interesting in its own right.
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>> He was no more a Yorkshireman than you are an Englishman Dutchie.
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No, but it fits with the modern desire to rewrite history and biography to emphasise regionalism.
Geography is king now. Boundaries and allegiancies are supposed to be entirely based on the geographical location of someone's "roots". Cross-cutting notions like family, class, clan, caste, loyalties etc command little respect now.
There were lost souls in the 20s and 30s who maintained allegiance to the Hapsburg Holy Roman Emperor, and refused to acknowledge upstart concepts like Austria, Czechoslovakia, Rumania etc.
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>> There were lost souls in the 20s and 30s who maintained allegiance to the Hapsburg
>> Holy Roman Emperor, and refused to acknowledge upstart concepts like Austria, Czechoslovakia, Rumania etc.
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You mean like Scots who "want independence " (but not enough to pay for it)
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>> when i used to work in the building trade a few years back we had
>> to stop a job because the groundworkers dug up some bones ...the coddy had to
>> inform the police
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'Coddy' That's a word I haven't heard for a long time.
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Family of man left under car park blames NHS
The family of a man who lay for more than 500 years beneath a car park in Leicestershire "without once receiving medical attention" is to sue the NHS for negligence.
Campaigners have demanded a public enquiry into the death of Richard Plantagenet, who also suffered "centuries of abuse" from historians.
Mr Plantagenet was only 32 when he sustained serious injuries in the Battle of Bosworth Field during the course of his job as king of England.
Relatives of the dead man said employers had breached health and safety rules by failing to make clear the dangers of the job, which included regular pitched battles, defending the realm against foreign invasion and putting down rival claims to the throne.
The family also claim Mr Plantagenet, who suffered chronic back problems, was routinely bullied by colleagues about his appearance.
A preliminary investigation found that on the day he died Mr Plantagenet had gone into battle with substandard armour offering little protection from the broadsword, longbow and mace.
Government sources argue that Mr Plantagenet was aware that violent death was an occupational hazard.
Investigators reserved particular criticism for NHS staff, who failed to spot signs of depression despite Mr Plantagenet's frequent complaints of a "winter of discontent".
Relatives said that Mr Plantagenet might have survived his injuries had paramedics been quicker to reach the scene. One said: "He just stood there shouting for help, but an ambulance never came. Richard even tried to buy a horse to take him to hospital, but there wasn't one available at any price."
A post mortem concluded that cuts were a contributory factor in the death, which was "almost certainly avoidable".
Robert Francis QC was unavailable for comment.
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I reckon that ye olde social services knew where the bodies were buried !
Seems that more of Britain's lost might be in Leicester...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21476014
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That's very funny hk. Not attributed, so is it yours?
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>> That's very funny hk. Not attributed, so is it yours?
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No, saddily, but IMO good enough to pass on.
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The Spitfire story never ends, does it?
www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/time-teams-tony-robinson-excited-1325417
Incidentally, I'm very sad that Time Team has been ended, especially in a such a dreary if predictable way.
Been watching it, on and off, for twenty years. Just have to watch the repeats for the next twenty I guess.
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my horse my horse - Focusless
