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The BBC noted today that 98% of the £150 billion grocery trade in UK is in the hands of nine supermarket chains. Is this a bad thing? Personally, shopping for a household of one, I get my basics in once a week at one or two of these 9. I only go to a smaller shop lie a specialist deli, baker or butcher when I want something special that the Big 9 don't stock.
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I think the point of note is that not all people have access to all of the big 9, so choice and competition may be limited.
Supermarkets like to dominate an area, using perceived barriers (like motorways, railways, major roads - yes believe it or not research has proved that people perceive these things as limits of travel to buy stuff). So here, in this "boundary" we have two tesco extra within 3 miles, that dominate pricing.
As a non boundary limited person, I have 2 Waitrose, 3 Tesco, 2 Sainsbury, 1 Morrisons (posh type), 3 co-op locals, 1 budgens, all within 5 miles.
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We're the same in this gloomy outpost - three sizes of Asda, Tesco times three, Waitrose a Co-op and three Morrisons (and numerous Lidl and Aldis) within our domestic travel to work footprints..
Last edited by: R.P. on Sun 3 Feb 13 at 09:18
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So what are the nine?
I can get 8 with a presence locally - relatively so in case of Lidl who are other side of a barrier called 'town'.
Tesco
Asda
Sainsbury
Waitrose
Morrisons
Co-op
Lidl
Aldi
Which one is missing?
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I think you know Oakham Zero? Still some good local shops there to rival Tesco and the Co-oP (Deference to Rob!. You make a good point though, as always. I was in Edinburgh last year and noted that there was a Tesco every 800 yards between the Zoo and Waverley station. A check reveals that there are 27 Tesco outlets in Edinburgh and there 6 in Bicester!
Last edited by: Meldrew on Sun 3 Feb 13 at 09:21
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>> I think you know Oakham Zero?
Yes I do, Oakham was badly hit by the closure of the nearby RAF base, quite a few shops closed. It does have a fabulous butcher tho, and the Lands End factory outlet.
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The Army have moved in but I think there are fewer personnel there and maybe a lower disposable income.Now known as Kendrew Barracks. The Army officially took over the site in April 2012. It is now home to the 2nd Battalion, Royal Anglian Regiment, who moved from Dhekelia Garrison in Cyprus. A second regiment, 7 Regiment, Royal Logistic Corps, is due to move to the base in 2013.
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Tesco have landed in two small villages around here as well (forgotten about them) Benllech on Anglesey is the latest - Llanberis has one penciled in. The Spar shop there is run by a local family - it is expensive but was always busy when we lived there - reckon it's doomed now...
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Within 10 miles:
Asda
Tesco
Morrisons
Sainsbury
B&M
farmfoods
Budgens
Aldi
Lidl
Co-Op
Poundsaver
Poundland
Waitrose
Home Bargains.
Do your research and shop carefully and save 15% overall from the average... (or more: 240 Yorkshire tea £3.99 vs £5.99, Duerr's marmalade 90p vs £1.34)
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We have stopped buying or meat at the local Asda, along with a lot of other locals - they have pulled out of a contract with a local firm making hundreds unemployed. They use their buying power to change contracts so the their customers can do likewise. A small local meat supplier (locally sourced and slaughtered) has opened a "factory outlet" locally - beautifully presented meat cheaper and nicer than the Supermarket fodder.
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Our food shopping is fairly varied.
Weekly shop - Waitrose - 5 miles distant
Odds and ends - local Cooperative
Bread - local baker
Meat - Waitrose and local butchers
Bacon/ Sausages - guy on Norwich market
Herbs/Spices - guy on Norwich market
Oriental stuff - Chinese lady on Norwich Market
Fruit/Vegetables - Waitrose/ Norwich Market/Local farm shop
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Lidl has been named 'supermarket of the year' in France.
It's a different world over here though - huge gaps on shelves in the big name supermarkets is nothing unusual, they just don't seem to be able to grasp the notion of a stocking strategy, maybe because quite a lot of the well-known name outlets are actually local franchises. And you have to be very careful that what is on your till roll actually represents the prices you saw on the shelves or in the brochure.
There's still a big distinction here between those - usually the younger generations - who are happy with 'le supermarketisme' and those who still patronise specialist shops and markets where the sky-high prices don't always reflect the quality of what is on offer. Somehow you can't help thinking that, even though blatant protectionism is French standard policy, the supermarkets will win.
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Difference is though Mike, is that the French have managed to have Super/Hypermarkets and small local shops thrive in town centres (well the last time I observed !) - we can't do that !
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I'm not a meat eater, but Mrs CS buys almost all her locally sourced meat from our local butcher and says that it's excellent quality and no more expensive than that on offer at Sainsbury's or Waitrose.
We buy all our fish from Waitrose. It's expensive, but again, excellent quality.
She won't set foot in one of the other supermarkets because of the stench of fish, even a good distance from the fish counter. That's not fresh.
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>>We buy all our fish from Waitrose. It's expensive, but again, excellent quality.
We buy farmed frozen Sea Bass from Aldi. Much cheaper than Waitrose.
M & S frozen fish is good.
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>>M & S frozen fish is good<<
^ I'm with this gentle man.
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>> I only go to a smaller shop lie a specialist deli,
>> baker or butcher when I want something special that the Big 9 don't stock.
As do most of us Meldrew, so I'm not picking on you. But there is the problem. A butcher can't exist just on the customers wanting things they can't get in Tesco, given Tesco will sell anything there is reasonable demand for. Similarly bakers, fishmongers, etc.
If we have a local fishmonger for example and we want it to survive, we need to think of him first when we want fish of any kind.
Too late in most places of course, which is why you now have the curious experience of finding greater choice in the few remaining underserved small towns in thinly populated areas.
Castle Douglas springs to mind as somewhere I have visited recently, though Tesco has appeared there too. Fortunately King Street has a free car park and on-street parking which seems to be helping two butchers, 2 bakers and a greengrocer to survive. Tesco is pushing hard for a filling station, presumably further to increase its market share, and that is being resisted.
The loss I regret most most here is the bread shops. I just can't enthuse about any of the bread I can find in supermarkets, so now I make my own - I'm not very good at it yet but I'm getting better.
Reminds me - doesn't somebody here live in Hemel Hempstead? Pruden's bread shops at Adeyfield and Warners End are good, but it's out of my way now I don't "go" to work.
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>>- I'm not very good at it yet but I'm getting better.
You don't knead to be very good at bread making if you buy a breadmaker. And the results are excellent.
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>> Tesco man gets castaway...
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qdr2m
I'll listen to that in a bit. I wonder if he trots out the old line about "it's the customers' choice to shop in Tesco so it's not us who close the little shops". I detest these people who think everybody else is stupid.
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I re-tuned into to it from Ambridge Extra - I didn't hear him mention that specifically. But his general conversation got me thinking about a comment from a regular here (made some time ago) we have a problem in this country with successful businessmen - we seem to despise them. I rarely darken Tesco's door these days, I only do it to grab their loss leaders or get at the petrol offers...not an ethical choice but Asda is generally cheaper for Leffe !
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>> I re-tuned into to it from Ambridge Extra - I didn't hear him mention that
>> specifically.
Sir Terry told the programme that he had mixed feelings about the issue. While acknowledging that seeing boarded up local shops was sad, he said this happened because consumers were choosing to shop at the bigger supermarkets.
“It is part of progress,” he said. “People are not made to shop in supermarkets, they choose to shop there.”
“High streets - some of them are medieval and the way that we live our lives now is very different, so what you have to do is make sure the benefits do outweigh the costs, and I think that they do,” he added.
He pointed out that all big organisations started out small and it is important to ensure that large businesses do not prevent smaller businesses from growing, and that competitions is fair.
Shame Kirsty didn't ask about the 7p loaf bread war of 1999.
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I have a breadmaker. Still use that as well as handmaking, but either way you have to experiment a bit to get what you want.
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My hair actually rose when I found out about the Benllech Tesco! I can't picture where it could be, I haven't been since about June.
I know the bank closed down last year but the only other places I can see it could be is the Spar, the petrol station or the co-op none of them are likely.
So I am guessing this could be in the old bank?
There is that awful eye sore of a close down hotel if that has not been pulled down yet, but I would not have thought that was the right location for a Tesco express.
Eitherway I am annoyed about it, Benllech was a place I could go and be Tesco free!
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 4 Feb 13 at 00:44
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Anyway I am within 25 minute drive of all the major stores, including Booths and Waitrose. I mostly do my shopping in:-
Fruit and veg - local green grocers unless something is on offer at the supermarkets
General - Morrisons or Tesco
Freezer stuff - My local freezer shop called Cool Trader
Junk food type stuff - Quality Save and B&M
Meat - my local butcher
So although I do shop at supermarkets I only use them as a source of discounted good when something is on genuine special offer. However I have time on my hands and actually enjoy shopping in all the local shops.
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They've bought the Texaco garage in the centre of the village - that will become a Tesco mini or whatever they call it these days - The few small shops won't be abe to compete with them - the butcher will be closing and I reckon the Co-Op days are numbered, the local's nearest garage wil be in Llangefni or Pentraeth - but I believe the garage in Pentraeth's days are numbered from another application I saw. No question of bribing councillors in Anglesey seeing as they have no powers here at the moment - so I suppose that's a positive.
www.northwaleschronicle.co.uk/news/116686/benllech-concern-over-tesco-arrival.aspx
Found this for you Rats - by chance there is a quote from an outraged butcher in the article - not seen it before !
Last edited by: R.P. on Sun 3 Feb 13 at 13:18
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We called in at the Benllech Texaco a few times last year when we had the caravan nearby.
SWM was going to knock up a pasta but had no tinned tomatos. Budget ones at Asda near home were under 20p.......Benllech ones, same size, were a click under 2 quid.
Perhaps the rip-off price charged to holidaymakers might come down a bit !
Ted
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'This week, I have been mainly eating disguised junk food and wilted lettuce leaves.'
SLAM
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What I noticed with Benllech once is that in the weekend the price of petrol suddenly went up about 10p per litre. Obviously think its funny to rip off tourists. Is a lovely place but it does get over run by rowdy scousers at weekends.
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Reading the article I can't help but think they are over hyping it. While I am not exactly pleased, its a small Tesco express, not a giant supermarket. . It will be about the same size as the Co-Op which is already there.
When a Tesco expressed opened on my road businesses were expressing fear. The only loss seems to be a small newsagent but that was damaged goods well before Tesco came along. The other local shops are an award winning bakery and a green grocer/grocer store who sells a much wider and better quality range than Tesco it is still mad busy DESPITE being opposite a Tesco express.
If anything they probably gain business from it.
I am however not a fan at all of Tesco express, it is far too expensive but its getting frequently hard to avoid. My town had no Tescos three years ago, now it has two Express stores, and there is a new Tesco Extra just 1 mile away.
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Tesco don't have it all their own way, we have 2x ASDA, 2xALDI, one Tesco and a big Tesco express, and a Co-Op. Tesco bought a big site in the town centre, rebuilt the road system and infrastructure and have now stopped all work and resubmitted plans for a much smaller food only store to be built at an unspecified time.
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Tesco are reducing the non-food element of their stores. They believe that there is too much competition form on-line merchants.
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/9563726/Tesco-puts-food-at-centre-of-UK-fightback.html
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The Extra near me was the one of the very last of its kind, it opened in the end of October. Its massive and mostly dead. It cannot possibly be making any money. I suspect they might reduce the size of it and sub let some of it.
The problem with big chains has is the consumer is now wise to the gimmicks they do to try and get us to spend more and of course online shopping.
My local Extra were selling a TV co-axial cable for £19.99, it should cost 80p. With prices like that they can't really moan about online competition!
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She must be mad then - she owns another garage within a mile of me (technically my nearest) always competitive, never darken her door unless it's an urgent fill-up - rather travel a few miles down the road and pay a penny extra.
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If it is a bread-maker it really must be a Panasonic IMO. The cheap ones can make breeze blocks!
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The Extra near Rats is great to shop in after the dump that is Morrisons here.
It's so big that you feel you're the only shopper in there. Plus the fact that it's all above the massive car park so you don't need to get wet at all.
Nice cafe with a lounge area, a Timpsons, dry cleaner, hairdresser, phone shop and opticians all in the same place.
Blast...Liverpool have just equalised !
Ted
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I do think the Morrisons will suffer as a result but they deserve to. It has to be one of the worst managed shops I have ever been in.
Yeah the new Tesco is not a bad shop, I just think they have err taken on a bit too much. There is another new Tesco just 3 miles away from it in Pendleton in Salford too.
With the traffic it actually doesn't take me any longer to get there than Morrisons though, its only one set of traffic lights away despite being about 1.5 miles away.
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Last August, my wife and I spent a several days in Portsmouth and used a fairly new Morrisons store. The shop had the ambience of a spacious Waitrose and the cafeteria was excellent; we ate breakfast there every day. Location was the Victory Retail Park on Flathouse Road, though istr that it was quite difficult to get at because of the one-way system.
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The Morrison's in Ross on Wye does brilliant fish and chips. I think it's their signature dish.
I had a breakfast at the Sheffield Catcliffe one last year when I called in to re-stock with Hendo's Relish, that was good too.
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>> The Morrison's in Ross on Wye does brilliant fish and chips. I think it's their
>> signature dish.
Riiiiiiiiiight.............. You from the wivvies gourmet school?
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We have a large Morrisons a few miles from where we live. I say large, actually it's massive. But it's well laid out, very light and airy and has an excellent deli, fish counter and cafeteria.
It also occasionally sells my favourite whisky at a worthwhile discount.
The coffee isn't up to much, though.
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We have one of the new posh morrisons nearby, they stock fruits that no-one has ever heard of let alone seen. Its a strange place, fantastic fruit and veg, with a rank butchers. The meat is crap.
you still cant beat Waitrose quality
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>>you still cant beat Waitrose quality
Wot, better than M&S?
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>> >>you still cant beat Waitrose quality
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>> Wot, better than M&S?
Yeah.
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Wifey sez Waitrose is a richmans/womans supermercado ... you never find a Waitrose in a poor area, like Bodmin or St Awful.
In fact I can only recall there being one in Cornwall, that's in Saltash which is in Devon, almost.
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The stuff is nice but it sadly fails the Leffe test.
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You and your Leffe m8 - if it's THAT good, it must be as-good as Warsteiner then.
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>> We have one of the new posh morrisons nearby, they stock fruits that no-one has
>> ever heard of let alone seen. Its a strange place, fantastic fruit and veg, with
>> a rank butchers. The meat is crap.
>>
We buy most of our meat from Morrisons, with the exception of sausage which we buy from Coopers in Llandeilo and bacon from a local farm shop in bulk packs. Tesco's meats, by comparison, always seems to look tired and plasticky, and on the rare occasions when we have bought there we've been disappointed by the poor quality. Same criteria apply to fresh fruit and veg, Morrisons' produce seems to keep better.
I really ought to put more effort into buying from local traders, Carmarthen has an excellent indoor market which is still very much focussed on local needs. Time and convenience tend to win out though.
I can't help but think that the British public is slowly falling out of love with Tesco's, the overwhelming ubiquitousness of the brand gets tiresome.
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>> >> The Morrison's in Ross on Wye does brilliant fish and chips. I think it's
>> their
>> >> signature dish.
>>
>> Riiiiiiiiiight.............. You from the wivvies gourmet school?
I consider myself a fish and chip gourmand, if not a gourmet:-)
What's a wivvie?
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I should have made it more clearer that I was talking about my local Morrisons. It was built in 1985 from memory (I think I was 3) and was a Safeway. It would have been big when it was built but these days its a small supermarket. It is a strange size being much bigger than an express but much smaller than an extra type store.
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>> Wivviespoons
Ah, yes, I like them as well, as industrial fast food, so I probably am. Usually a choice of good beer at sensible prices too. Good standby.
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>> >> Wivviespoons
>>
>> Ah, yes, I like them as well, as industrial fast food, so I probably am.
>> Usually a choice of good beer at sensible prices too. Good standby.
I met a friend I used to work with in one near Victoria for a catch up last week. Good beer, OK food, decent loos and no music so conversation was easy. Does what it says on the tin.
If, in a parallel universe, I'd been taking her out to impress I wouldn't have looked but for two of us chatting it was just fine.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 3 Feb 13 at 18:48
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Visited the new one in the old Corn Exchange building in Bury St Edmunds last week. They have done a great job on the building and had a decent pint. Was full of normal people too!
The ones in Norwich are pretty grim however and conform to the Weatherspoons norm for clientele
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We went to the Bury Wetherspoons just before Christmas and, as it was a Tuesday steak night, we had a couple of steaks for a very reasonable price. As always in Wetherspoons, I got the impression that you’re only supposed to stay for a max of an hour and a half or so before you move on.
As CGN says, they’ve made a decent job of converting the Corn Exchange. I have fond memories of the building from when our old band used to play there for functions; thanks to some strange quirk of physics, my guitar amp used to pick up the radios from the taxi rank outside. The fire brigade once invaded us when the smoke machine [but it’s only vapour] set the smoke alarms off. It made an excellent concert hall, particularly for the lunchtime festival gigs, and I was once privileged to see Larry Adler perform there.
I would expect Bury Wetherspoons to be mostly full of (CGN’s) ‘normal people’ – the town has a relatively low chav ratio; having moved here in 1975, I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else in this country. Yesterday, I went back home to Coalville, a depressing place and the armpit of the grimy midlands; alas, imho, its decline can be traced back to the demise of the town’s old grammar school.
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Low chav count and Bury made me a bit confused, then I realised you were talking about a Bury St Edmunds!
If I ever eat out during the day (not drinking) for a quick lunch it always tends to be Wetherspoons.
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It had me confused as well, it's 20 years or more since I went to the shopping centre in Bury, I thought things must have improved a lot!
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Sorry, chaps, as CGN had referred to Bury St Edmunds in the previous post, I inadvertently resorted to the usual local abbreviation of just 'Bury'. I don't think I've ever been to the proper 'Bury', though I'm sure it's charming.
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>> I don't think I've ever been to the proper 'Bury', though I'm sure it's charming.
Which one is that? There's one near here but it's too insignificant to be the proper one. Retpocileh slithered up its notorious hill the other day in the snow.
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A colleague mentioned he was off to Bury St Edmonds - as I said didn't he was dead...
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afaik, Bury St Edmunds is derived from 'Borough of St Edmund', whereas Bury (Lancs) is derived from 'Bury the evidence, the police are coming'
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I am with you on the food and drink but, depending where you are, the clientèle can be a problem. My nearest has men, on their 3rd pint by 11am, picking losers out of the Racing Post and then running over the road to William Hill to spend the rest of their money. My small village pub is selling a branded bitter @ £2 a pint, while stocks last
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My antipathy towards Wetherspoons has been documented before. I'd never even been in the Carmarthen branch till last night, when on the spur of the moment I decided to give it a try.
And guess what? Yep, just like all the rest. Place is clean enough, sells cheap and drinkable beer, but it's curiously soulless and lacking in any kind of atmosphere no matter how many people are in there. They all seem to be the same; only one I've ever found that I do go back to is the one in Market Harborough and that's only because my bike club has its AGM there.
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I wouldn't disagree with that analysis HM.
Some of them, at least in London, have a modicum of artistic/architectural interest (eg The Knight's Templar on Carey St). As well as being big the absence of music, 'regulars' and the mine host Landlord inevitably mean they're not pubs in sense that the place in the village here is. And I don't think that's what they set out to do.
Instead, they fulfil a need for somewhere that's good for a business pint, a family meal or an after work get together.
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Within a 15 minute drive:
1 Waitrose
3 Tesco Express
1 Tesco Extra
1 M&S with a huge Foodhall
1 Asda
1 Morrisons
1 Co-op
1 Aldi
1 Lidl
1 Sainsbury's Superstore
1 "One-Stop" mini-supermarket
We get about 95% of our groceries from Waitrose. Lovely fresh fruit and vegetables, tasty, locally sourced meat, and as SWMBO works for the Partnership, we enjoy a 15% discount on everything, even the already reduced stuff. For the odd out of hours emergency pint of milk or loaf of bread, we'll go to Tesco Express or the One-Stop.
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>> Within a 15 minute drive:
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>> 1 Waitrose (snip)
Being rural(ish) I'd apply a 25 minute isochrone. That gives:
3 Waitrose
1 Tesco extra
1 M&S (In Northampton centre)
1 Morrisons
1 modest Asda - no fuel
2 CoOp (both in Towcester- superstore and convenience place)
3 Aldi
1 Sainsbury superstore
3 village stores on of which is 7-11.
6/7 filling stations with convenience stores.
There's a Lidl, another large Tesco and an ex Safeway Morrison's east of town but too far to bother with.
Pretty much all the basics (tea/coffee, veg, cheese, bacon, household clean 7 wash stuff) comes from Aldi. Top up at Waitrose for a few things not stocked or where Aldi quality is supect. Daventry is great as both can be accessed from one car aprk but it's only a short drive in Towcester.
Meat mostly comes from the Farmers Market. Spend £60-£100 a month there and fill the freezer.
Occasional offers in Sainsbury - like the 'half price' joints.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 4 Feb 13 at 16:54
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We have Waitrose in Esher.
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>>Occasional offers in Sainsbury - like the 'half price' joints<<
I'm on me way ;)
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Don't bother, I can let you have all the grass you want now I've a new mower. Weeds too.
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And an example of the big chains deceptive pricing....
Stella (yeah i know) in Sainsbury's yesterday was £4.50 for 4x440ml or 'special offer' £8 for 2.
4x440ml in Aldi is £3.75.
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Dominance of the Supermarket Chains - Zero
