Various news sources talking about whether you should clear the snow on the pavement outside your house.
I'm a bad person. Not only have I not done so, I admit I sat about all day yesterday in super lazy mode and it didn't even cross my mind.
Do you clear your bit of street, if relevant?
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I dont do it, I didn't put it there.
I like the people who pile it somewhere else in the way.
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I have not cleared any snow............Reason? It has not snowed here yet.
2 years past November it was a different tale - snow was around 3-4 feet after 2/3 days snowing. Council ignored our road and eventually a JCB used it's bucket to dig it out and dump it at the foot of the road- snow eventually disappeared in March from the open area at the foot of the road.
Most neighbours do the same
DSS tenants a few doors away, both up/down road, do not
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"I'm a bad person. "
We already know that...:-)
As for clearing pavements... well yes I do that after the drive entrance (on a slope) and the entrance and path of our octogenarian neighbours... so it sometimes gets left.
As the pavement ends on our side of the road after our house - fields next - there are not many people wanting to walk on it...
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>> I have not cleared any snow............Reason? It has not snowed here yet.
>>
I am a bit to the East of you, we have an inch of slushy wet thawing snow, not worth shifting, it will soon be gone.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 21 Jan 13 at 11:46
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>> I am a bit to the East of you, we have an inch of slushy
>> wet thawing snow, not worth shifting, it will soon be gone.
Looking at the forecast, you may have some more soon.
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Can any of you send some snow over lanarkshire / Glasgow way???
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>> >> I am a bit to the East of you, we have an inch of
>> slushy
>> >> wet thawing snow, not worth shifting, it will soon be gone.
>>
>> Looking at the forecast, you may have some more soon.
>>
It has been half heartedly snowing all day, still have about an inch of slush. We are low enough not to get much snow and high enough not to get flooded. :-)
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>> >> I have not cleared any snow............Reason? It has not snowed here yet.
>>
Reason ? I am still not allowed out cos I might fall over - snow or no snow. :-(
I usually clear our very small drive and a strip of pavement ( tarmac ) outside.
To the horror of some I sometimes hose it down and brush off the little water left.
Never had a problem with icing cos I check the temperature.
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Somebody told me that if you clear down the snow and then it turns ice and someone falls over it, then you are responsible for it.
Don't know if that is an urban myth.
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>> Somebody told me that if you clear down the snow and then it turns ice
>> and someone falls over it, then you are responsible for it.
>>
>> Don't know if that is an urban myth.
>>
>>
My house cover includes £2 million public liability insurance, but as the pavement isn't mine the council can clear it. The road is gritted and safe to walk, no traffic or parked cars. The council only started gritting the road this winter, a councillor must have moved in nearby.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 21 Jan 13 at 16:16
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>> My house cover includes £2 million public liability insurance, but as the pavement isn't mine
>> the council can clear it. The road is gritted and safe to walk, no traffic
>> or parked cars. The council only started gritting the road this winter, a councillor must
>> have moved in nearby.
EDIT - The council have £30 million cover for any single claim, my council tax will cover clearing my bit of pavement.
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>>my council tax will cover clearing my bit of pavement.
How do you folk who think it's the council's responsibility think they are going to clear all those pavements simultaneously?
I got home today after 8 days away and spent 60 minutes clearing before I even set foot in the house. That's my exercise done for the week as well as the drive and paths cleared.
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>> >>my council tax will cover clearing my bit of pavement.
>>
>> How do you folk who think it's the council's responsibility think they are going to
>> clear all those pavements simultaneously?
>>
They use mini tractors with a snowplough blade on the front and they tow a small two wheeled grit spreader.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 22 Jan 13 at 20:27
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>>They use mini tractors with a snowplough blade on the front and they tow a small two wheeled grit spreader.
I didn't realise Andrew Carnegie's legacy ran to that - I've certainly never seen one anywhere else!
That clinches it. Dunfermline for us if I can plant the idea on the boss.
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>> I didn't realise Andrew Carnegie's legacy ran to that - I've certainly never seen one
>> anywhere else!
>>
I must admit that they don't do the residential street pavements, just the town (now city) centre, the main roads, hospital area pavements, etc.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 22 Jan 13 at 21:11
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>> They use mini tractors with a snowplough blade on the front and they tow a
>> small two wheeled grit spreader.
>>
Similar to this -
www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=201&pos=27
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>>The council only started gritting the road this winter, a councillor must have moved in nearby.
My road's gritted, it used to be a bus route and the stops are still there, but the only bus we see now is the free one to Tesco's on Friday.
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>> Somebody told me that if you clear down the snow and then it turns ice
>> and someone falls over it, then you are responsible for it.
>>
>> Don't know if that is an urban myth.
>>
I have always understood that to be the case.
We have always had insurance to cover that.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8443745.stm
or
www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/6958131/Health-and-safety-experts-warn-dont-clear-icy-pavements-you-could-get-sued.html
www.malcolmcoles.co.uk/blog/sue-snow-pavement/
www.newham.gov.uk/parkingandtransport/grittingandsnowclearance/clearingsnowandicefrompavementsandpublicspaces.htm
Will I be held liable if someone falls on a path I have cleared?
There is no law preventing you from clearing snow and ice on the pavement outside your property, pathways to your property or public spaces.
It is very unlikely that you would face any legal liability, as long as you are careful, and use common sense to ensure that you do not make the pavement or pathway clearly more dangerous than before. People using areas affected by snow and ice also have responsibility to be careful themselves.
So thats all clear then!
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CandUB
Find me a case where anybody has ever been sued for anything as a result of clearing the snow on their path.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 21 Jan 13 at 17:17
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>> Find me a case where anybody has ever been sued for anything as a result
>> of clearing the snow on their path.
>>
>>
I am not bothered about my paths, but clearing a path which is the responsibility of the council without written permission, a risk assessment, personal protective equipment, and council approved tools, would put the council jobsworths into a full scale self perpetuating clipboard waving tantrum. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 21 Jan 13 at 19:16
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>> Do you clear your bit of street, if relevant?
Yes. Is't it obviously the right thing to do? If everybody does their own and that of less able neighbours then the job gets done for everybody's benefit. There is no other sensible approach, but it's old fashioned now.
My 84 year old uncle here has just been out and cleared a path to the road to make the postman's life easier. I'd have helped him, but he was enjoying himself and is only waiting for a bit more precipitation before he builds a snowman!
I can see that people who are off to work early and back late might find it harder to find time for, but we are obviously a million miles from the Big Society if leisured retirees like Zero think it's not their problem!
My cousin lives in a suburban area of greater Berlin. It's an obligation to keep the pavement outside the house tidy and clear of leaves etc - I assume that applies to snow too, and woe betide anyone who cuts the grass on a Sunday. Sounds to me like a more community minded approach than is usual in UK.
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>> >> Do you clear your bit of street, if relevant?
>>
>> Yes. Is't it obviously the right thing to do?
no, its not. It makes the now damp surface far more dangerous to walk on when it freezes over night. Its safer to walk on the snow.
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Oh gosh! I agree with Zero.
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>>It makes the now damp surface far more dangerous to walk on when it freezes over night. Its safer to walk on the snow<<
Where I live there aren't any streets, pavements, or snow but, if I lived in a 'normal' street I'd do what ^ Z does.
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Last week, I took my shovel and bucket down the slope to the grit bunker and spread grit up the road to the houses and across the pavers in front of our group of houses; I did the same again yesterday as it had snowed again during the night. I'm retired and, in many respects, fairly fit, and I have the time.
I shall shortly be posting MBE nomination forms through my neighbours' letterboxes.
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If I lived on a street I'd do the length of my frontage... clear the snow and salt it.
As it happens we are at the end of a longish drive off a cul-de-sac where the path is all dropped kerb as several drives exit over it. No-one really needs to walk over it.
I have done all our paths and the bottom 10% of the drive where the cars stand so at least we're not tracking snow into the house.
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Our pavement is also a continuous dropped kerb for the cars parked off road, so there's nowhere sensible to clear the snow to!
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There are no pavements here, but I vaguely remember shovelling snow off the pavement in front of our old gaff once or perhaps twice, before noticing that it could do as much harm as good.
What one did have to do was wash the front steps after Carnival, and the pavement directly in front of them. People would sit on the steps all day spilling soft drinks and chucking coke cans and bottles into the front area of the house. Until it rains heavily a couple of times the gunge and sticky stains look terrible for ages.
The council used to leave the streets littered with cans, broken glass and food wrappers for several days, and after the bank holiday traffic clattered cheerfully through the carpet of flattened cans. These days they clean up before dawn on the day after carnival, but you still have to collect all the gunge and rubbish from the area or the drains will get blocked up for example.
Cheap at the price though I always thought. I am sure Westpig would agree.
:o}
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>> What one did have to do was wash the front steps after Carnival......
>> flattened cans. These days they clean up before dawn on the day after carnival,
What happened to the definite article?
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>> What happened to the definite article?
Terribly sorry Duncan. Local dialect often obscure to carrot eaters and the like. Old habits die hard. Covered in shame and so on.
Would it be all right to come on Lancashire say and call it 't'carnival'?
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>> What happened to the definite article?
Most Slavic languages do without it, and the indefinite one, entirely. Overrated part of speech. Of the Slavic languages, I can only think of Bulgarian which has one, off the top of my head. They use it in a most bizarre manner and it stems from ancient declensions, rather than being a phenomenon which developed on its own. One of the more fascinating languages of the group, along with Slovene and it's singular, dual, plural system.
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>> Most Slavic languages do without it,
Yes, and omission of definite article is one of several charming aspects of east European accent when they speak English. Another is intrusive y-sound liberally used by Russians in particular.
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Indeed, Slavs often miss it out in English because they're not used to the concept. And it is pretty much redundant in most cases. They have trouble getting it right, which I find ironic as a student of their languages, which are hideously, fiendishly difficult in grammatical terms compared to English (although not quite on Planet Arabic/Chinese).
The "y" Russians show in their English accents whcih you mention is a legacy of their sound system which contains two versions of every vowel - one "dark" (guttural) and one "light".
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About 6" of snow here now, with drifts up to 24" in the wind.
I have no intention of clearing any snow from my drive/steps because as Z says, it freezes solid at night and turns to sheet ice.
I went on 2 long dog walks yesterday in the hills around me, snow hopping to escape the ice where the snow had been compacted by tractors.
Far too busy on my day off doing domestics and drinking tea, repairing the bird table and later to my local to sit in front of their fire!
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>>
>> Yes. Is't it obviously the right thing to do?
>>
>
No.
If I cleared my 200 yards of road frontage that would still leave about 2 miles either way to the next house.
Are farmers supposed to clear all the roads in the country?
Where am I supposed to put the snow?
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The folk across the road have cleared the snow from their off street parking.
In their infinite consideration for others, { :-() } they have left in two mini-mountains completely blocking the pavement!
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I live in a flat, accessed by outdoor steps. While fresh snow is ok, when it compacts and freezes the steps become lethal - I have been down them on my backside more than once.
As a result, I take it on myself to clear the snow off them and sprinkle rocksalt as necessary to keep them clear. The fact my three neighbours all benefit from my work matters not a jot - so long as it makes it safer for me.
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I clear my drive up to the front door for postman and milkman. I don't do the pavement. It seems Cwmbran council don't bother either.
We had to walk down the road from the station bridge today. It was solid knobbly ice. I felt myself go a few times but managed to keep upright. We were glad to get onto Morrison's car park...all nicely cleared away and gritted.
Walking in the road wasn't an option, carriageway too narrow due to snow piled up against the kerb.
Ted
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You supposed to clear the snow on the footpath and put salt on it.That is what we did in our street fifty years back.Not many people bother here to do this and people and up walking on the road or older people dare not go out walking on snow.
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>> woe betide anyone who cuts the grass on a Sunday. Sounds to me like a more community minded approach than is usual in UK. >>
Better social order is one reason I would might enjoy living in Germany, but it was taken to excess in the then communist Leipsig of 1970, where I spent three weeks. Toilets in the block of flats where I was lodged could not be flushed after 10 p.m., nor showers used. I saw someone who must have been a plain clothes policeman blow a whistle at a man who was riding a bicycle with a flat tyre, then treating him to an harangue on the dangers of what he was doing and how he was a disgrace to the revolution etc. Tram travellers would keep a sharp eye on new passengers, to make sure they paid up. Long-haired Finnish girls in our student party were jeered publically as prostitutes. An English girl was jeered for wearing a flowered straw hat. Pedestrians would shout insults at anyone jumping the gun at traffic crossings.
Still, it was great to have the streets hosed clean every night, even though the cleaning gang did once shout protests of "Stiptease" up at me for appearing at my sixth floor window, fully and decently pyjamaed, one hot night. The opera was great, too, and I took easily to the custom of having two breakfasts every day.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 22 Jan 13 at 12:38
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East Germany was a regime not pleasant to live.It took the West Germans about ten years to bring the East German infrastructure up to scratch.Nobody wants to live in a society where people shop each other.Clearing some snow or just put sand on the snow for people to walk on does help.
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Nowadays in Germany, according to my daughter, you are not allowed to cut your grass or put out washing on a Sunday.
Supermarkets don't open on Sundays.
You are obliged to clear leaves falling onto public paths, from trees within your property's curtilage; you must also clear snow from adjoining footpaths outside your house.
Last edited by: Roger on Tue 22 Jan 13 at 14:04
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Neighbour who's not into manual labour had to shift some snow due to his car couldn't get a grip and was stuck. :-)
I don't shift it as the car is in and out lots of the time.
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Ours is a private, gated street about 300 metres or so. 45 houses, more or less. It's a fantastic community, nearly everyone shovels the street. Women, men, pensioners and an English guy.
Last night it snowed heavily, it took about 30 minutes to clear my section - pavement, road, parking for 3 cars off-street and I clear my patio too. The 'shovel' is about 1 metre wide and has wheels underneath and has a kind of large looping handle, not one handle. I push/plough through and dump it round the back. It's effortless and takes no time (I broke my back remember). If I need to make a pile I wedge a foot under the shovel and kick it up. Easy peasy. It was -10 last night. There is no frozen, lethal, dangerous ice. No pensioners landing A-over-T.
What is dangerous is when snow isn't cleared, deep rutted streets, slush, walking through snow up to your knees. Then at night it freezes solid. It's like stumbling over huge, slippery rocks. Pensioners can't leave the door, young mothers can't possible push a pram, the postman can't ride his bike, you can't even pull a sledge. That's what's dangerous.
The odd few that won't make an effort, the one opposite is an absolute ay-hole. His weekend toy is a customised V8 Jeep, huge wheels, snorkel, lights on the roll-bar and a winch. And get this, he bought a plough three years ago - huge and raises up and down. Not only has he never shovelled his drive, he's never even used the plough - by the time that lazy fudger has woken up, the street is clear. I feel sorry for his wife, she struggles to get through to the cleared bit so she can push her little wheel trolley to the local shop. Her old man won't ever drive her to a supermarket either. Unbelievable prick. Can't remember how many times I've seen her pushing the trolley and given her a lift home.
Care for the less-abled. So clear your damned street. Try being men, not a wincy excuse-maker.
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. The 'shovel'
>> is about 1 metre wide and has wheels underneath and has a kind of large
>> looping handle, not one handle. I push/plough through and dump it round the back. It's
>> effortless and takes no time (I broke my back remember). If I need to make
>> a pile I wedge a foot under the shovel and kick it up. Easy peasy.
Where can I get one of these?
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Mine's has smaller wheels and cost about a tenner
But Zero's is fantastic. It's a Hummer.
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They must work better on crisp dry powdery well-below-freezing from beginning to end Polish snow, surely, than on the pressed down, half-thawed then half-refrozen stuff on our pavements and driveways.
OK if you get to it before anyone's trampled it down I guess.
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While Zero was doing that I was googling "wheeled snow shovel".
I think this is a Hummer.
www.langtoninfo.co.uk/showitem.aspx?isbn=0094922756985&loc=GBP
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Buy a plastic shovel for a tenner.
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No this is a hummer snow shovel.
tinyurl.com/blyv49u
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>> No this is a hummer snow shovel.
>>
>> tinyurl.com/blyv49u
>>
Winter tyres make a difference.
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BBD said
>> Can't remember how many times I've given her a lift home.
>>
Tidy?
Last edited by: Duncan on Tue 22 Jan 13 at 22:18
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Our local council would be ill advised to prosecute anyone for damages or injuries if they clear roads and pathways themselves. They're actively encouraging people to do it:
cllrrobwhite.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/thanks-for-clearing-snow-and-ice.html
(N.B. I am not a Green Party supporter, nor a member of the local Islamic group, just thought this article would quosh any suggestion that the council would be able to sue people if they're openly encouraging them to clear paths.)
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I'm a bad person - Zero
