Non-motoring > Scary job market.	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: R.P.	Replies: 113

New Mon 17 May 10 17:35   Scary job market. - R.P.

Talking to a guy yesterday about a job - driver working for a HGV parts delivery company, sort of reliable one man band business - ideal for PU's new honest toil outlook on life....700 applicants, not only could they not acknowledge the letters, they only opened at random the first fifty - made me feel bad in a way as these are probably decent family types wanting to pay mortgage and buy food....shocking. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 17:47   Scary job market. - Dave_

>> 700 applicants Doesn't surprise me at all PU. My ex went for an interview for a part-time job at a greeting card shop around the corner a year or so ago, they told her they'd had over 100 applicants and asked her in simply because she lived the closest. My local police force had to turn people away from a recruitment day last year - when googling for a supporting link I found they also had 600 applicants for one 999 desk job: bit.ly/UTdrm I'm not filled with confidence for this December when I complete my college course. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 17:51   Scary job market. - Zero

A few jobs round here. I am toying with the idea of going for a Saturday Job with a local Ham Radio supplier. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 18:48   Scary job market. - spamcan61

The only reason I'm working in Stockholm is that in 10 weeks on the dole I never got as far as a face to face interview in the UK, seems no matter what sort of job you're after there are many, many potential applicants and so employers can be very fussy indeed. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 18:53   Scary job market. - R.P.

I confess to signing on - but was rejected in an interview....honest. I'll find something in time, but nothing like what I used to do. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 18:55   Scary job market. - Zero

I signed on, but was then told my pension was too big to get Jobseekers allowance, So I didnt turn up for the next mandatory interview, and got rebuked and told my jobseekers allowance would be withheld..... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 19:01   Scary job market. - R.P.

That's what happened to me - there must be a few thousand of us hidden unemployed ! The experience was lightened somewhat when I sat on the stained scruffy settee in the office waiting to be humiliated - la of around 16 sidles up to me - and says "your first time ? You'll be OK you know" It really made me feel for his generation.... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 19:14   Scary job market. - RattleandSmoke

My dads in the same siutation, too much pension to get any benefits, not anything like enough income to pay the bills. He is working part time with his business but its very part time and dosn't earn enough. He was sent on a ECDL course when he was on incapacity benefit (due to broken arm) but its all a bit of a joke. My dads getting onto 60 and he has nothing really that stands out. He does have experience but then so does everybody else. It is also very hard for the under 25's to get jobs too. Looking back now I can't believe how easily I got that part time job at Curry's and it was only four years ago Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Mon 17 May 10 at 19:15 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 19:33   Scary job market. - R.P.

I don't need the work, on a day to day basis between the two of us we have enough coming in (having pared costs to the bone - that's one thing with having the time scouring deals for house insurance and the such like) - there is a friend living at my home that's paying quite well, but he's found a house he wants to buy so that will dry up soon. I find I don't spend much day to day on myself.......funny old world... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 19:40   Scary job market. - Zero

Due the fact I now have no mortgage to service, and the enowment payments will stop shortly, and that I am now a basic rate tax payer, I am only actually down about 200 a month net. my next job will be for interest only. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 19:47   Scary job market. - R.P.

And me - HMRC and me are still at odds though ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 19:53   Scary job market. - Runfer D'Hills

I think I've been invited to everything but the the Christmas party by HMRC over the years. I comfort myself that they must like me really. Why else would they write to me so much and want to know so much about me ? :-)) Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 19:55   Scary job market. - R.P.

A nightmare Humph - my pension was geared in a way to er.....take advantage of various things by the first Mrs P - sadly all that was well and truly scuppered ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 20:09   Scary job market. - Zero

And me, HMRC owe me at least a monkey according to my calculations. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 19:58   Scary job market. - teabelly

Certainly is scary. Been trying to find work for the last 2 years. Can't sign on as I have a small amount of other income so at least I don't have to suffer the useless wasters that work in the job centre. What did you used to do? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 19:25   Scary job market. - spamcan61

Thankfully I chose to sign on in Ringwood, normally there was just me and a few wannabe hairdressers / stylists there, bit different to last time I was signing on in Luton 31 years ago. The only money I got was the non means tested taxable 60 odd quid jobseekers that you get if your NI stamps are up to date IIRC. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 20:01   Scary job market. - Roger.

WORK IS HORRIBLE. !! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 20:06   Scary job market. - R.P.

Damn yes you're right - back to the deck chair then. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 21:35   Scary job market. - bathtub tom

I confess to signing on for six months when I took voluntary redundancy. I had to sign on every alternate Friday at 1620. By that time of the day they were behind, so were always late seeing me and by the time they got round to me the other staff would be locking their drawers and putting on their coats prior to the weekend. I was dealt with in a hasty manner with very little interrogation on what steps I was taking to obtain employment. After five months I was given a three-monthly interview. I was perfectly honest in describing my half-hearted attempts to find a job and my treatment at signing on. It took them a few more weeks to decide I wasn't doing enough to qualify for job-seekers allowance which I didn't qualify for after six months of payment because of my personal situation. The little car delivery job I've got now is an ad-hoc arrangement and I don't do more than a couple of days a week. I'm humbled by those that do it as often as possible and one guy was holding down two other jobs just to earn enough to cover his outgoings. It pays just over £6/hour! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 22:06   Scary job market. - Runfer D'Hills

I've been lucky enough to have had some quite good jobs. Then I was also fortunate enough to have the opportunity to run my own small business for a number of years. It didn't make us rich but it usually provided more than we needed. Then relatively recently I was asked to come and work for a company again in a so-called senior position. That too, despite the current economic climate, seems to be going well enough for now. Little to moan or complain about then you might reasonably think. Maybe so, and when I'm on the corporate "stage" in the glare of the footlights I know I can still give the "audience" the impression of enthusiasm and fire. Truthfully though, deep inside, I find it all a bit fatous and pointless other than as a way of making provision for myself and my family. I can remember when I truly believed in the worth of what I did but now it is frankly all an act. I think, having made the leap to providing for myself once before, the thought of having to do it again, if required, is far less scary. There were times when we got very close to the wire financially but somehow we muddled through and it felt very rewarding knowing that all the effort was for ourselves. Occasionally we did rather well too which was even more pleasing of course. I think many people have become disenchanted by and disconnected from their work. Security and long termism is not in the vocabulary of many workplaces now with the result that we treat it with the sort of disdain once reserved for a mistress rather than the respect deserved by a wife. The world has changed and will continue to do so. There are livings still to be made but maybe we all have to accept that we need to be far more prepared to be more itinerant. To be happy when times are good and to show stoicism when they are not. Our culture of material aquisition gives us feelings of achievement at one level but commits us at another. If only we were able to de-clutter a bit, move with the time and tide, adapt like the wild creatures we once were to the changes in our environment and in the modern world accept fluctuations in our income streams as the norm we would all be more at peace I feel. Change need not be feared, it can just as easily be embraced. "Standards" are not stone set things anymore. Like primitives, feast a little when you can and save a little for when winter comes and above all take pleasure in that and those important to us. Reply to this message | Report message       4

New Mon 17 May 10 22:13   Scary job market. - R.P.

Wise words. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 22:35   Scary job market. - Bigtee

Why don't you come and join us on the railway not for everybody i know most jobs are shift work unsociable hours weekend work and nights but the money is good and the time off is great good pension & free travel. There always recruiting i work with guys who have done 40,30 years so retirement is looming better starting on a low paid job and working your way up you can do it quite quick just everybody wants to be a driver and the list is long.!! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 22:38   Scary job market. - Zero

no vacancies on southwest trains. I am thinking of doing volunteer work at Brooklands museum. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 22:14   Scary job market. - MD

Humph. That is a brilliant post. MD Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 07:41   Scary job market. - Pat

What a good post Humph. It's opened my eyes to see that these changing times have affected the better paid, and also those in a lot higher position than myself and a few others on here. I'm not patronising when I say it must be hard to realise the plans and security you once had for the future, is no longer there, and to some extent, harder than those of us who never had it in the first place. I've only ever signed on once, when I was in my twenties and the experience than wasn't any better than it is now. I vowed never to 'lower myself' again and have since always taken any work going sooner than repeat the experience. A fear among employers is when someone is over qualified and they feel that person won't give the job the dedication it deserves. This is entirely wrong and I know an Ex Police Superintendent, someone with a law degree and an awful lot of Farmers who have all turned to lorry driving and do it succesfully. Pat Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 22:08   Scary job market. - WillDeBeest

Yikes - been there, done that (twice, the first time for almost a year) and I feel for those who are doing it now. I quite agree that the JobCentre Plus (yes, Plus) ritual is a humiliating waste of time spent talking to someone who knows less than you do about what you can do and how to find some more of it. Gordon Brown's much-maligned Child Tax Credit was our safety net through that period. The forms took some navigation but were essentially asking for reasonable information and the difference to my family was huge. The system may not be perfect but the mean-spirited sniping over Brown's departure last week forgot a great deal of the good he did. By comparison George Osborne has some work to do to avoid looking like a toddler trying on his dad's shoes. Meanwhile, we're moving house while we can afford to; partly to reduce the time I spend commuting, but partly also because our Midland location was a problem in my last two job searches and in my business (IT) I'd rather be in the Southeast if there has to be a next time. Good luck to all of you. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 17 May 10 23:09   Scary job market. - RattleandSmoke

I've always fancied working on the railways as a guard or even customer service person. I won't be bother with train driving I won't pass any of the tests - it took me long enough to pass my driving test (although I did pass first time, i just needed centures of lessons). The reality is though even the TOCs are getting 100's of applicants for basic jobs. I may volunteer for the east lancs railway but I just don't have enough time. Even now I am working (installing windows on a hard drive failure PC). I setup my business simply for one reason, I couldn't get a job and I couldn't stand being patronised on the dole any longer. I setup my business with £250 and four and a half years later I am still doing it and I don't need to worry about getting the sack. It is a much harder business to get into now though and if I was a current crop of graduates I think I would just work in Morrisons full time stacking shelves but the reality is I wouldn't even get that job! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 01:03   Scary job market. - Auntie Lockbrakes

An interesting thread, and perhaps a taste of difficult times ahead for millions more people, judging by some of the economic headlines at the moment. I was made redundant at the beginning of last year, and I made a conscious decision to not even bother looking for work for the remainder of 2009, such was the state of the economy. Yes I was lucky that I could afford to make this choice, but as Zero alludes to above, if you pay off all that you owe (including mortgage) you can actually start to live life quite frugally. And as Pugugly says, you have time to shop around for better prices on insurance policies, electricity providers, etc. I'm now looking for work again, refreshed and recharged, and the high number of rejection letters can be counter-balanced by the thought that 200 quid a week wages from the supermarket down the road will be enough to maintain my lifestyle if push comes to shove. It's (too much) personal debt that is the killer in our society today. People overspent wildly over the past few years and now cannot afford to miss a pay packet just to keep the interest paid and the wolves at bay. Misery. Tough times ahead. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 07:13   Scary job market. - Bigtee

Rattle join the IT depaertment and still run your buisness on your days off there very busy with lots to do look on the northern rail website, but i have found doing voluntary work can pay off employers think wow he will get of his backside and work, it did for r kid now works for the nhs after a spell with st johns ambulance. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 08:14   Scary job market. - L'escargot

The best way to find a job is to write (including your CV) to as many companies as possible, telling them that you are looking for a job and enquiring whether they have a suitable vacancy. With any luck your application will be circulated around the various departmental managers, and a vacancy may be created when they realise that you may be of value to the company. It's important for you to be flexible regarding in which part of the country you are prepared to work, and you have to send out big batches of application letters every day until you are successful. It worked for me on two occasions when I had been made redundant. On both occasions I sent out well over 100 letters ~ all hand written because it was before the days of personal computers and word processors. With this method there's less competition. When applying to an advertisement you could be competing with hundreds (or even thousands) of other applicants. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 08:44   Scary job market. - Clk Sec

Working on a temporary basis for an agency can often lead to a permanent job offer. It did for me. Last edited by: Clk Sec on Tue 18 May 10 at 08:46 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 08:50   Scary job market. - Dog

My 2 legged rottweiler is the executioner for a firm of solicitors in cornwall with 2 offices, she has taken the axe to 1/3 of the staff during this dire economic mess, much sadness ... many, many tear's, alas. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 09:39   Scary job market. - John H

>> she has taken the axe to 1/3 of the staff during this dire economic mess, >> much sadness ... many, many tear's, alas. >> The extent of teh economic mess has yet to be revealed fully. Gordon went on a spend spend spend spree to save his reputation. We will have to pay for it for years to come. Unfortunately, many UK citizens believe that the owrld owes them a living. for proof, just look at the BA cabin crew who do not realise that the world airlines they are competing against do not have the overheads BA has to carry such as NI, H&S, pensions, holidays, overtime, sick pay, maternity pay. Even some of the very high teck companies located in the advanced science parks of Universities such as Oxford, Cambridge and Surrey are looking at moving to Asia with their research and production facilities. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 10:13   Scary job market. - Zero

Even some of the very high teck >> companies located in the advanced science parks of Universities such as Oxford, Cambridge and Surrey >> are looking at moving to Asia with their research and production facilities. make that ALL of the major hi tech and IT companies are sourcing work to the east. There is an economic zone in Mumbai, that has large facilities and offices for ALL of the biggies. And to make matters worse, they dont just make redundant here and move work to workers there, they ship the indians back here on short term periods to do the work they shipped out there! One senior exec in an IT major, slipped out that he was looking to make two thirds (that 150 thousand people) of his staff into part time contract by contract workers. Last edited by: Zero on Tue 18 May 10 at 10:16 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 10:20   Scary job market. - Dog

My 2 legged Rottweiler was speaking to her boss (another 2 legged r/w) about how another 2 legged r/w who was on holiday in Florida for 3 weeks (are you still with me?) The boss said " I wish I could afford to go to Florida for 3 weeks" 2 years ago she 'almost' exchanged cons on a £1 million house in St. Ives. If I was her I'd be tempted ... no I wouldn't cos I know me - I WOULD chuck it all in and get a job on the railways. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 10:30   Scary job market. - John H

>> >> make that ALL of the major hi tech and IT companies are sourcing work to >> the east. There is an economic zone in Mumbai, that has large facilities and offices >> for ALL of the biggies. And to make matters worse, they dont just make redundant www.jsonline.com/business/91306009.html more than IT industry that is at risk. Last edited by: John H on Tue 18 May 10 at 10:31 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 10:40   Scary job market. - helicopter

Interesting thread.. I have worked solidly now for 42 years and would love to retire but still feel that I cannot afford to. I too have been made redundant three times but have always managed to get work without having to draw the dole. You make your own luck in my opinion. I once spent 5 months working as self employed motorcycle courier when times were hard but it brought in enough to pay the motgage and to keep my son in the private school we sent him to when we realised his potential would not be realised within the state system.. I am now in the happy position of being an employer. Running a business you see the job applications and applicants from the other side where you get unbelievably incompetent applicants with no interest in working and who have no idea how to behave at interview , make spelling mistakes and tell lies on their CV etc etc. I too find the Jobcentre useless from the employer side , when I advertised a purchasing position last year I was not impressed at all with the service although we got a good candidate eventually a lot that we were sent were only there because they lost the allowance if they did not go to interviews. Waste of my time and theirs Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 11:26   Scary job market. - teabelly

The only future jobs that are safe are ones that require a physical presence in a particular location eg train driver, doctor, care worker, mechanic etc I find it quite ironic that the old 'trades' as they once were are the safe options after everyone has pitched out of them and into the cyber jobs like web design or systems admin, programming etc. IT can be done anywhere pretty much now apart from physical installations or physical fault finding. Labour always does the same. Spend too much and ruins the country. The tories clean up after them then everyone wonders why they don't spend as much on things and why there are no books in schools having conveniently forgotten labour blew their budget and wasted billions and the poverty gap has widened under them anyway! Some socialist lot they are. Useless. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 18 May 10 11:36   Scary job market. - BobbyG

Humph, that was a very honest post and very true to life. Luckily, I am in a job that, although not unique, is a very rewarding job. I used to work for Safeway, Morrisons then Sainsburys and put up with crap all day long and as a manager, I had to give out instructions to staff that I knew we were not capable of seeing through. You know the sort of thing, we have employed consultants to analyse how many hours we need to run a deli and after months of analysis they have decided 300. But , we are now in profit recovery, we are falling short of our billion pounds profits, so you can only have 200 hours but you must still run it to the same standards etc so force the minimum wage workers on the shop floor to maybe work through their breaks etc for the sake of the "team". I was able to take my retail skills and I now work for a Hospice running and developing their charity shops. As my office is based in the Hospice, every day I can see where the profits go, what it means to people and their families to receive the services we provide and it drives me on much more than any profit payment or bonus scheme would ever do. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 12:02   Scary job market. - Fenlander

Very pertinent thread for me... >>>Truthfully though, deep inside, I find it all a bit fatous and pointless other than as a way of making provision for myself and my family. Interesting comment by Humph because that is exactly the thought that led to me taking a lump sum VR from my *career* back in the early 90s before I was 40. I could see the wind of change blowing through my industry and the wider world and didn't want to be part of it. As it happened the good lady had done exactly the same a year before for the same reasons so we found ourselves free to do whatever we wanted. As part of our plans we sold our prestige house and found this more modest mortgage free place where we still live. Getting housing costs down was the biggest single factor in freeing us up from needing a major income. Also I had a very secure old fashioned pension that I could draw at 55 which gave some backup to our plans. I started a modest self employed business where I could determine my own hours and that carried on for some 15yrs until it outweighed its usefulness so I wound it down a while back. Since then I've self funded spending time restoring our 30s house but now that's very close to the finish. So getting back to the thread title I'm considering reaching out into the job market for some work. I don't need security, full time or a career so it could be almost anything but I note just how few jobs appear in the paper and hear how oversubscribed the ones on offer are. I'd thought of something charity based where the pay isn't perhaps high enough to normally attract the type of person they need but may well suit my situation. I've not drawn dole since I had it for 3mths when in my teens and there's no way I'd expect the system to find me work... I'll get off my backside and see whats about... starting with contacts and contacts of contacts first. We'll see. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 12:28   Scary job market. - RattleandSmoke

Its one reason why I left curries. To be put it blunt I could not care less how rich we were making Lord Karms. All the manager did was make empty threads we knew he couldn't see through! Then they decided to scrap the commision system so loads of all left. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 13:38   Scary job market. - L'escargot

>> Its one reason why I left curries. The reason I leave curries is that I don't like spicy food! ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 12:47   Scary job market. - John H

>> I was able to take my retail skills and I now work for a Hospice >> running and developing their charity shops. As my office is based in the Hospice, every >> day I can see where the profits go, what it means to people and their >> families to receive the services we provide and it drives me on much more than >> any profit payment or bonus scheme would ever do. >> It looks like most jobs in future are likely to be in the service and charity sector. Today's papers report that the new Office of Budget Responsibility when it has finished its work, Britain's official debt might turn out to be far more than double the current official estimate, up from £890billion to £2,242billion i.e. £77,770 for everyone with a job. I do not know how on earth we will pay for it when even with current low interest rates just the interest payment exceeds UK's income. Can't begin to imagine what it will be like if we get hit by high Gilt borrowing rates like Greece. The only option is to live for today for who knows what tomorrow will bring. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 12:48   Scary job market. - RattleandSmoke

Exatly get into as much debt as possible today, because everbody will go bankrupt in a few years time anyway! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 13:34   Scary job market. - borasport

PU - i'm bemused that you seemed to be unaware of the state of the job market, but my image of you has you sat (until recently) in a leather chair in a wood panelled office, dispensing wisdom with benign authority whilst grateful myrmidons deal with your every need. ;-) Last edited by: borasport on Tue 18 May 10 at 13:35 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 13:45   Scary job market. - R.P.

Close but no wood and leather - I knew it was bad but not this bad ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 13:54   Scary job market. - John H

>> Close but no wood and leather - I knew it was bad but not this >> bad ! >> What will all the state sector workers to be made redundant by Lib_dem_cons do? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 14:07   Scary job market. - R.P.

Good question, where I now live is a few miles from the council's "county seat" they employ 8000 people according to their website - the local paper was stuffed with job adverts, some essentials like teachers admittedly but the majority were NTEW (not the end of the world) jobs like in consultation - some paying healthy sums - fiddling whilst Rome burns ??? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 15:57   Scary job market. - rtj70

One of a few reasons to downsize was to be mortgage free and have a valuable asset to boot. Another was we didn't need the space etc. But a big factor was we could downsize to a nice 3 bed semi and be better prepared for what might happen with the economy. It doesn't look good does it. All it would take to affect someone like me would be to lose some government IT contracts we thought we would (or even had won).... At least the redundancy money should cover me for a living costs for a while - helps not having a mortgage. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 16:21   Scary job market. - R.P.

Getting rid of a mortgage has to be the priority after food. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 16:25   Scary job market. - Bigtee

Then get rid of the wife but keep the dog and you will be better off. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 16:27   Scary job market. - R.P.

Only just got her - she likes shiny kit, holidays and cars ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 16:36   Scary job market. - Zero

>> Only just got her - she likes shiny kit, holidays and cars ! Only useful if she pays for it. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 16:38   Scary job market. - R.P.

Not paid for anything yet (other than equal share in this and that) my birthday in a week, asked me today "I suppose you'll want an iPad as some stage won't you ?" I could only nod. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 16:29   Scary job market. - Tooslow

Mine's working and earns. Plus you don't get vet's bills. JH Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 16:37   Scary job market. - Zero

>> Getting rid of a mortgage has to be the priority after food. Big deep mortgage pain is on the way. Interest rates will take off. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 16:38   Scary job market. - R.P.

There was a hint today... Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 17:57   Scary job market. - rtj70

>> Big deep mortgage pain is on the way. Interest rates will take off. Hopefully interest rates will go up a bit ;-) Have to put my savings from mortgage payments somewhere. Not huge increases but at least inflation. Mortgage rates already a lot higher than base rate. Base interest rate will increase for sure. Mortgage rates are a lot higher anyway. Before we sold the house in December, we were on the SVR and it was cheaper than any deal you could have got for a new mortgage for sure. And was a few hundred less per month than when I first took out the mortgage in 2001. Mortgages are likely to go up. I would not like to have a mortgage of £300k+ regardless of income. If I wanted to I could probably save 50% of my take home wage from Sept (covering some of step-sons bills for now when he's away and benefiting from a house sit before we bought the new house). But I am not bragging and find myself in a lucky few who benefitted from house price rises - as will Rattle's parents upon selling their house. Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 18 May 10 at 17:57 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 17:11   Scary job market. - RattleandSmoke

I am very worried about it, I live in an area of Manchester which relies on the higher education sector. I live within three miles of three major universities, Manchester, MMU and Salford so any cut backs here will effect my business. This why I don't agree with cut backs so soon. They have not seen the wider picture, make a load of people jobless then small businesses will suffer and the job centre just gets busier and busier. Landlords then go bust because there is no shop keepers paying them rent. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 17:23   Scary job market. - L'escargot

>> I live within three miles of three major universities, Manchester, >> MMU and Salford so any cut backs here will effect my business. There's no reason why you have to stay in Manchester. Spread your wings. The world is your lobster. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 17:24   Scary job market. - RattleandSmoke

Everything is here though, my friends, the music etc. I would be lost any where else other than central London and I can't afford to live there! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 17:27   Scary job market. - John H

>> Everything is here though, my friends, the music etc. I would be lost any where >> else other than central London and I can't afford to live there! >> excuses, excuses, excuses. Just get on your mountain bike as Tebbit said. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 17:28   Scary job market. - L'escargot

>> Everything is here though, my friends, the music etc. I could have said that on the two occasions that I was made redundant. If I had I would probably have ended up as a shelf stacker in a supermarket. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 18:00   Scary job market. - RattleandSmoke

I think social housing is the answer. I am not sure how it could be done without the problems of council estates in the past 30 years though. I am thinking social not for profit housing for professionals but I am not sure how you could filter it out. My other grand idea is altnerative living such as boats, carravans or even double decker buses but for some reason the idea has never taken off in the UK. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 18:15   Scary job market. - Bigtee

Yes rats become a gipsy all you need is a caravan and your sorted a bus is not bad and plenty of old train units about or live in a tree house the list is endless, canal boat is not bad but watch out for submarines! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 18:17   Scary job market. - rtj70

Our plans are to exit the UK. The nice house might get rented out in the next few years for income. Now if I could setup a business I can run from overseas on the net that brings in big money... excellent. A friend/colleague did this but continues to live in the UK. Doh. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 19:26   Scary job market. - Dog

>>My other grand idea is altnerative living such as boats, carravans or even double decker buses but for some reason the idea has never taken off in the UK. << I thought you said you came to Cornwall comrade doom merchant? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 19:31   Scary job market. - Zero

>boats, carravans or even double decker buses but for some reason the idea has never >taken off in the UK. Because that does not solve the fundamental question Somewhere to put it. We dont have the land. IN fact we have less mooring spots than building plots. A houseboat is valueless without somewhere to moor it. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 19:36   Scary job market. - Tooslow

"Somewhere to moor it". That's a serious problem. Ask Captain Van der Decken, he knows all about that little problem. JH Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 19:41   Scary job market. - Zero

Is that an Albatross round your neck JH? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 18:24   Scary job market. - teabelly

HE cuts are going to be deep and long lasting. The daft idea of everyone having a degree is going to get shelved and once the tuition fee ceiling comes off then all the unis will be competing for rich overseas students as they're already used to paying for the cost of their education. With 3 unis so close expect at least 2 of them to merge....if not all 3. I actually think the simple answer would be to shut the post 92 unis as a lot of them are badly managed or in debt or offering useless courses to poor quality students. Retention targets and funding depending on successful completion of modules has meant unis are desperate to hang onto even the most inarticulate and hopeless cases. If students start paying full whack I don't see where the betterment in standards is going to come from as it will not pay to get rid of students as they want the money. Then students will get an idea of entitlement (more than they do now) that they paid for this degree so they should pass! Landlords are going bust already through the death of the commercial letting sector. Student sector is probably next on the belt tightening. Only growth area is housing those on HB... The unemployed and claiming benefit figures are the tip of the iceberg. They don't include anyone that wants to work more hours and can't. Those that want to move jobs but can't find anything better and those that have given up looking for work. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 18:31   Scary job market. - rtj70

The Victoria University of Manchester and UMIST already merged as well. And not that long ago really. I kid you not about discussions of foreign student quotas when on a committee at Manchester uni. The figures needed x.5 students (where the 0.5 is a half) and it was debated if they could get away with fewer. After 20 minutes they had to accept the full student with language any problems it brought (English not being first language being the most obvious issue). They would have preferred 0.5 fewer but the money said they needed the 0.5 so had to take the whole student. Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 18 May 10 at 18:32 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 20:26   Scary job market. - -

Sometimes it's not so clear cut...from outside anyone would think i was bonkers, gave up a very well paid job and went on an agency still trucking but less than 2/3rds the hours and less than half the work..mind you half the pay. As said above, getting rid of mortgage and having no debts does ease the worries. The most important person in my life sat me down and told me she didn't want to be the richest widow in our town...it wasn't till the last few weeks that i realised just how bad i was getting..i was averaging 4 headache tablets a day on the job just to keep them under control...since leaving that way of life i haven't needed one...i hadn't realised just how stressed i had been. Sometimes that breadwinning duty and it is a duty can become all consuming. Many companies have taken undue advantage of the downturn to push their workforce to dangerous lengths, seeing as the only known by staff number no one's bothered as they fall by the wayside...plenty to take up the slack. I reckon it's going to get a lot worse for a long time, the streets may yet run with blood. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 20:42   Scary job market. - RattleandSmoke

Me and my sister (both have degrees) cannot understand how universities get away with keeping on hopeless students beyond the first year. Both Salford and Manchester do this because they get the fees. I think we need a system where if you don't get 60% in the first year you're kicked out. I know that when I was at Salford the department was so rich it was quite scary. All the money came from research but a lot of it would have come from the government funding that research. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 21:00   Scary job market. - MrTee43

Felix Dennis was on Working Lunch a few days ago and he was commenting on how the number of people going to university these days was ridiculous and not enough people doing apprentice training and going into the trades. Trouble is, our manufacturing industries have mostly gone so no jobs there. Spare a thought for all those that were not quite bright academically and used to get jobs in the mills, mines etc. Where do they go now. It,s no wonder that we have young lads who "stick a knife against someones neck and get a couple hundred quid". Anyway, by the sound of it, some of you early retired folk should not need to find a job as you must have nice big pensions, unless retirement is not all its cracked up to be. No problems for the Euro lottery winner, 80 odd million pounds to play with. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 21:05   Scary job market. - Zero

>> Anyway, by the sound of it, some of you early retired folk should not need >> to find a job as you must have nice big pensions, unless retirement is not >> all its cracked up to be. We are the last of a lucky generation. Pensions as good as ours are a dying beast. The civil service will find that out soon. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 22:14   Scary job market. - henry k

>>I think we need a system where if you don't get 60% in the first year you're kicked out. >> It is not just at the bottom of the pile. Having got into med school if you do not shape up in the first two years ( of five / six) then you are usually off out. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 23:01   Scary job market. - R.P.

Yes still true, my niece is on her second year - major stress time now. I keep telling her it's practice for the real world... Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 23:11   Scary job market. - teabelly

It's quite simple. HEFCE have targets on retention so unis lose money if students drop out! If they over recruit they get penalised. Under recruit ditto. It's all this widening participation cobblers. ie letting in any knuckle dragging herbert because they are from a poor background. What's worse there are so many of these dodgy essay sites around it is hard to tell even if the students with good grades are earning them... back to 100% exams I say. And even then you have to be careful the right person is even sitting the exam and not some imposter. Would certainly weed out the poor ones but I think we'd be back to 20% or lower HE participation very quickly. Had some berk ring up from one of these essay writing sites moaning that one of the students had paid with a stolen credit card!!! He was basically allowing a student to commit fraud (essays weren't being submitted to turnitin or other plagiarism detection so you know these companies are bent) and was moaning the student had de-frauded him! I wasn't sympathetic to his plight.... Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 18 May 10 23:48   Scary job market. - Dave_

>> Only growth area is housing those on HB Forgive me if I'm being a bit slow, but having lived in rented HA property for most of the last 13 years, and been claiming HB since last summer, how do I engineer a move to a private landlord on HB? These social housing estates aren't bad, but in my street (as in most, I suspect) there are a couple of "problem" tenants who cause everyone else a lot of grief and I'd quite like to get away from them. Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Tue 18 May 10 at 23:48 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 08:42   Scary job market. - Clk Sec

>>how do I engineer a move to a private landlord on HB? Just keep an eye on the small ads placed by private landlords; local paper, shops, Gumtree, etc. As long as you can provide good references, you shouldn't have a problem. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 08:50   Scary job market. - Pat

And a hefty deposit upfront, that you never see back even on a long term let until you leave. Pat Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 08:56   Scary job market. - teabelly

>> And a hefty deposit upfront, that you never see back even on a long term >> let until you leave. >> >> Pat >> A deposit is standard and sensible. Would you give a stranger control of a valuable asset without wanting some kind of surety?? With deposit protection schemes it is easier to get the money back at the end of the term. I don't think it is much different to paying a deposit to buy a house. Either way you don't see that money again until you leave :-) Unfortunately it is the bad tenants and bad landlords that ruin it for everyone else. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 09:02   Scary job market. - Pat

The point you don't understand is that most people in HA accomodation can't find £1000+ up front. I fully accept that a deposit is needed but a few years ago I lived in a privately rented house and the landlord held my deposit for 8 years during my tenancy. No interest whatsoever, and I had to make noises to get it returned which I did eventually and in full. Is this fair either? Pat Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 09:18   Scary job market. - teabelly

>> The point you don't understand is that most people in HA accomodation can't find £1000+ >> up front. Then they'll have to stay in HA accommodation or find a landlord that will accept a guarantor and a smaller deposit or no deposit. Generally landlords accept that HB tenants can't pay in advance if they are a first time claimant for HB. It's a free market. Landlords are free to ask for deposits or not. Most choose to do this as it means there is a hold over the tenant to make sure they behave and don't trash the place. Like I said. Bad tenants make landlords cautious. Bad landlords make tenants resentful. Neither is good! >> No interest whatsoever, and I had to make noises to get it returned which I >> did eventually and in full. >> >> Is this fair either? Tenancy law is clear though. Deposits are to be returned at the end of the tenancy. If you chose to move then you would have had it back but wouldn't have done you any good as you would have needed it for another place. The deposit protection schemes are there to return deposits automatically to tenants now unless there is a very good reason to have them withheld. Also if landlords take deposits and don't put them in schemes and tell the tenant then the tenant can automatically claim double the deposit. In spite of what you may feel tenancy law is quite on the side of the tenant as any landlord knows when they want to remove a non paying or problem tenant. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 08:49   Scary job market. - teabelly

A lot of landlords accept HB tenants. Generally they will want a guarantor ie someone you know with assets. Have a chat with local letting agents as they will know which of theirs already do and generally properties via letting agents are higher quality and the letting agents make sure all legal requirements are fulfilled. Gumtree/small ad landlords can be the rough end of the market or the inexperienced that don't want to pay letting agent fees. Both are worth avoiding! Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 10:51   Scary job market. - Iffy

...how do I engineer a move to a private landlord on HB?... Most people would rather rent from a housing association than privately. Private landlords generally have a bad name in the North East. Too many are eager to take the rent, but relcutant to carry out any maintenance. Such landlords tend to like housing benefits claimants because they believe the rent is fairly secure. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 13:30   Scary job market. - Clk Sec

>>generally properties via letting agents are higher quality and the letting agents make sure all legal requirements are fulfilled. Gumtree/small ad landlords can be the rough end of the market or the inexperienced that don't want to pay letting agent fees. Both are worth avoiding! And don’t forget the Experienced landlords who also don’t want to pay letting agent fees. Assuming they let good quality, immaculately presented properties in areas of high demand, why would they want to part with up to 15% plus vat, plus additional charges for re-letting, inventories, etc, if they have the time to manage it themselves? A responsible private landlord will be well aware of his obligations, some will return deposits with accrued interest (if no arrears), some will provide references from past tenants, and, as a result of lower overheads, some will charge less rent. As with everything else, though, proceed with caution. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 13:37   Scary job market. - Fenlander

Sorry to sound hard about this but a £1000 rental deposit is a small price to pay for someone to allow you their home to use effectively as your own. We were landlords at the start of the recession. A 4yr old immaculate 3-bed semi worth £180,000. To buy it would have taken a £20,000 deposit and £1200/mth in mortgage payments. Our tenants were able to move in for £1000 plus £675/mth..... a bargain I reckon. We had it presented & maintained to the standard of a brand new house with expensive fitted carpets and let via a quality local agent. We never gave the tenants a moments trouble whereas they hassled us for every little thing. The letting agent left us under no illusions that whatever agreement was drawn up, and whatever level of deposit was taken, you still exposed yourself to the house being damaged and crafty tenants staying on too long but moving out just before court papers were served. On the other side of the coin we rented flats for the first 18mths we were together.... from a money grabbing Rigsby character who would never do any maintenance unless something fell down... and then he'd blame the tenant. He was an unsavoury character who'd snapped up loads of townhouses in the late 50s when they were worthless and then started to rake it in during the 70s. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 15:12   Scary job market. - teabelly

>> We had it presented & maintained to the standard of a brand new house with >> expensive fitted carpets and let via a quality local agent. We never gave the tenants >> a moments trouble whereas they hassled us for every little thing. The letting agent left >> us under no illusions that whatever agreement was drawn up, and whatever level of deposit >> was taken, you still exposed yourself to the house being damaged and crafty tenants staying >> on too long but moving out just before court papers were served. >> This is why it is essential as a landlord to have a guarantor. It is amazing how much better behaved tenants are knowing that another person will come banging on the door demanding they pay up and another person would also be liable for any damage. Plus as a landlord it means you can rely on rent being more likely to be paid on time and the tenants will look after the place so when they want something it is easier to provide it knowing it will be appreciated. Some tenants are more demanding than others. Good letting agents tend to spot those kind of picky people and weed them out if they can :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 15:34   Scary job market. - Crankcase

Having over the last five years rented and moved three times, using the same reputable local letting agent (or at least the best that we can find), our experience on every occasion is that you don't get the full deposit back in any circumstances. Every time, however hard you try to leave the property spotless, with photos to prove it etc, there is a "cleaning charge" of about £75, a "damages" charge of about £50 due to "a tear in the back of the curtain" or something equally impossible to argue about, and of course in the contract itself there is a fixed £75 "admin charge" they take just because they can I suppose. As best as I can tell they're all the same or worse though. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 15:36   Scary job market. - Fenlander

>>> letting agents tend to spot those kind of picky people and weed them out if they can :-) It's a difficult balance... these folks ticked all the boxes on income, maturity and refs so it was hard to ignore them. I think they'd have laughed if they'd been asked for a guarantor.... as I would. BTW crankcase we gave every penny of the deposit back. Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 19 May 10 at 15:37 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 16:15   Scary job market. - R.P.

Maybe looking to rent my old place out, luckily I have a contact in an Estate Agents that deals exclusively with the MoD - trouble free lettings apparently. On a separate note the other half spotted an advert in a cafe twenty miles away for an assistant. Too far for the discerning jobless loafer. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 16:29   Scary job market. - henry k

An interview with someone else looking for a job with a laugh !!!!! news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8692401.stm Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 16:38   Scary job market. - MrTee43

What an idiot, with that sort of dosh invested wisely, he could have been set up for life and still had all the trappings and the fun that goes with it. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 16:42   Scary job market. - Iffy

...what an idiot... I think that was apparent before he won the money. The millions just enabled him to take his idiocy to new heights. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 17:05   Scary job market. - Mapmaker

>> What an idiot, with that sort of dosh invested wisely, he could have been set >> up for life and still had all the trappings and the fun that goes with >> it. But not in a particularly flash sort of way. If you reckon that you're very lucky to see a 7% return on your cash, the taxman takes 50% of that, which leaves you with 3.5% and inflation is between 2 and 4 percent, then to be honest, you don't actually necessarily get a return on it in real terms... Even assuming you can squeeze 2% out of it, on 10m that's only £200,000 per annum. Yes, it's quite a lot of money, but it's not true wealth. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 16:59   Scary job market. - Runfer D'Hills

Couldn't you do a bit of soliciting from home PU ? Lawyery type stuff ? Or doesn't it work that way ? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 17:04   Scary job market. - R.P.

Humph not that bothered about working ! One of my ten commandments on retiring was 3. Thou shall not deal with anything that needs a pen (quill or otherwise) and links into 6. Thou shall not have to think too hard whilst working In fact I can't remember when I last wrote anything by hand ! Last edited by: Pugugly on Wed 19 May 10 at 17:04 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 17:06   Scary job market. - Tooslow

PU, "In fact I can't remember when I last wrote anything by hand !" Probably just as well. My handwriting was always worse when I returned to work after holiday. After this long it's going to be indecipherable! JH Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 17:09   Scary job market. - bathtub tom

With weather like this PU could be selling ice-cream on Rhyl sea-front. ;>) Candy-floss if the sun goes in. Burgers later in the year. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 17:13   Scary job market. - Runfer D'Hills

My ex-boss had a house in the village of Pilton near Glastonbury. His back garden fence adjoined the festival site. He used to take the time off during G'bury to sell burgers over the fence which he cooked on his barbeque. Made a lot of money doing that. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 23:54   Scary job market. - Bromptonaut

>> 3. Thou shall not deal with anything that needs a pen (quill or otherwise) >> >> and links into 6. >> >> Thou shall not have to think too hard whilst working >> That rules out a fee paid/part time judicial appointment then? I'd sort of seen you as a Parking Adjudicator (motoring connection)!! Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 17:10   Scary job market. - Zero

soliciting from home? isnt that an offence? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 17:22   Scary job market. - Armel Coussine

>> isnt that an offence? I don't think so Z. Buttonholing people in the street is another matter though. Business dear? they had taken to muttering unprepossessingly last time I noticed... Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 17:22   Scary job market. - Runfer D'Hills

Not if he calls himself an "escort" on his ad in the Spar shop window. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 17:29   Scary job market. - R.P.

I s.s.s.s.say ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 17:37   Scary job market. - Runfer D'Hills

Good money apparently. Funny shifts though. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 19 May 10 17:45   Scary job market. - R.P.

I know I was looking for a "position" but this is ridiculous ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 20 May 10 08:58   Scary job market. - Zero

Here a new tilt on this, the scary job market thing. A lot on here have jacked it in relatively early, or are still active in retirement. IN my retirement I done tasks at home that have taken money out of the local jobs market. We have cancelled the window cleaner (niether of us had the time or inclination to do it) and now I do it. I recently serviced my own car, thats work that not gone to a local mechanic. I put up my own satelite dish, If I had been in work I would have paid someone to do as i wouldnt have had the time, thats another bit of work disapeared. I am pretty sure there will be lots more examples coming up where I wont be putting money into other peoples employment. NOt to mention the severely reduced tax take that HMCR can now only prize out of me (500% less in fact) I may be happy in my lot, but it has a knock on effect. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 20 May 10 10:45   Scary job market. - Dog

That is exactly my employment, I won't call a geezer in until the last resort ... I've fitted plasterboard to a ceiling, a new thermo-coupling + pilot to my gas coal-effect fire, sealed the leaks with low-mod silicone in my glass conservatory roof, fitted a stable door (garage side ent.) Repaired rotting fascia board above bay windows instead of buying that blimmin plastic carp :) I was a'gonna service my old Glow Worm broiler but I called a geezer (te,he) in because (A) he's got all the gadgets and (B) I might wanna sell the gaff come the fall (Autumn not housing mkt.) Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 20 May 10 10:49   Scary job market. - Clk Sec

>>instead of buying that blimmin plastic carp :) What a load of rot, Dog. Best thing since sliced bread! :) Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 20 May 10 11:44   Scary job market. - Dog

>>What a load of rot, Dog. Best thing since sliced bread!<< You rotter Clk Sec - I even make my own un-sliced organic 100% wholemeal jobbie. ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 21 May 10 02:39   Scary job market. - Auntie Lockbrakes

"discerning jobless loafer" - I just love the terminology PU, it sums me up right now too! 2 job-related anecdotes from my job-seeking yesterday: There are loads of vacant jobs in Sydney apparently. Employers can't get bums on seats because any Tom, Dick or Harry can go and do menial work in the mines in the outback and earn a fortune for doing nothing... NZ is slashing company tax and personal income tax later this year. Top rate of tax will be 33%, plus 2% national insurance equivalent. Official unemployment stats also plummeted last month. (VAT to rise from 12.5 to 15% too, however). Norman Tebbitt was right..! Reply to this message | Report message