The Red Cross came a calling late yesterday afternoon just as I was busy upstairs doing some paperwork. Incessant door bell ringing so I was not best pleased.
He immediately launched into what sterling work the RC were doing helping UK flood victims. And was i prepared set up a DD with my bank to pay a minimum £10 pcm to support them?
I asked, quite reasonably, if he could show me any independently audited account of how much % of my money would reach the end user. No was the answer, and the conversation rapidly went downhill until he left one minute later.
I have no idea if he was on commission, salaried, or perhaps an unpaid volunteer (which I doubt) but they didn't get any of my money. I support my two local hospices where there are plenty of unpaid volunteers.
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Funnily enough. late last year I had the Dogs Trust, and the RSPCA call round in the same week.
I told the RSPCA I had a DD with the Dogs trust, and told the Dogs trust I had a DD with the RSPCA. Fifi gave both of them a slobber, so they didn't leave empty handed.
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Christian Aid stick an envelope through a coupla times a year. It usually gets lost or chucked out with the papers. Later someone will knock on the door and ask for it back...full, of course.
Then the bit I don't like...tell them you didn't get one and a new one is whipped out and presented to you. They then wait for you to cough up. I consider it a form of blackmail.
Now, where did I put that tin of rusty washers ?
Ted
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Legacylad, these 'charity' collectors tend to work for the same firm as the 'chuggers'. They are basically paid by the charity for signing people up to give donations. Those that come knocking are paid per signee - so can work all day and earn nothing.
Who really would give a stranger bank details! And remember they don't work for the charity. Next week they'll probably be in a different area with ID for a different charity.
The only ones making real money out of this are the ones owning the businesses. And there are quite a few.
e.g. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9383881/Rise-of-the-door-to-door-chugger-prompts-complaints.html
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>> Christian Aid stick an envelope through a coupla times a year.
This will be volunteers from a local church distributing and then collecting the envelopes.
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Don't mind Christian Aid - dislike the Chuggers - I mentioned my run in with them here collecting for UNICEF. Gave them Bank details from a slumbering account and cancelled it the next day got rid of them. I think it's a bad way to do business, especially these days - don't they know that people are on their uppers ?
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Its the old story though, if it didnt pay for the charities, they wouldnt do it.
Charities need to spread their risk of income so will look at, for example, shops, events, lotteries, raffles, door to doors, sponsored events, gala evenings, retail merchandise etc etc.
All of these will come with costs. Some are just more obvious than others.
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>> >> Christian Aid stick an envelope through a coupla times a year.
>>
>> This will be volunteers from a local church distributing and then collecting the envelopes.
>>
Yep, the lady across the road does it once a year - she has no financial need to do it and is generally a good all rounder so I assumed it was a voluntary thing.
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My parents in law also do this - that's how I know it's probably the church in most cases.
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Second that Rob - CA is/was very local chapel/church based. I remember one of their campaign slogans from the 70s.
"Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for life"
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>> "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to
>> fish and feed him for life"
Or as they say in business:
“Give a man a fish, he knows where to come for fish.
Teach a man to fish, you’ve lost your market-share."
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"I asked, quite reasonably, if he could show me any independently audited account of how much % of my money would reach the end user. No was the answer, and the conversation rapidly went downhill until he left one minute later.
I have no idea if he was on commission, salaried, or perhaps an unpaid volunteer (which I doubt) but they didn't get any of my money. I support my two local hospices where there are plenty of unpaid volunteers."
Quite right too Leglad. Too many "charities" have become bloated lobbyists where our donations are mostly used in paying executives large salaries, political lobbying, lavish advertising campaigns etc so that only a small percentage goes to those who really need the dosh. In addition they are often recipients of a great deal of "Government" money (the Gov don't have any money - it's our money they take from us).
Like you, I now restrict my charitable donations to local charities (in particular a childrens hospice) and to some others which I know spend the vast majority of the money they receive on the people it is supposed to go to (a local MS Charity for example). There are few "big" charities I also give to because of personal connections (they have helped family/friends)
My reply to chuggers/cold callers (especially from the likes of Friends of the Earth/WWf/Oxfam etc) is "How much money do you get from the Government?" If they know (unlikely) or if they give a figure I just say - "There you are, some of that came from my tax payment - I already contribute monthly".
Sounds a bit mean I know, but starving children in India don't move me as much as they used to - if the Indian Gov can afford a space program, it doesn't need me to feed those poor kids. I still feel sorry for them but would my donations make a difference - and I already donate anyway via HMRC and our generous leaders.
P
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British Red Cross have a DD for November for £50.
Pestered for roughly 3/4 times in as many months wanting me to change to £5.00 per month...............annoyed as for the other 11 months other charities have a DD I gave them an ultimatum.
If they did not like £50.00 in November then I assured them that another charity would welcome it..............silence broke out and in November they took their £50.00 and I have not been bothered for 6 months!
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I tend to just play it straight and say that I have picked the charities I support, and theirs isn't on the list. Enjoy your day.
If theirs is on the list I tell them I already donate electronically.
As I don't fib over it it's not an issue and they go away happily enough.
The ones I do cut off in their first sentence are the "Hello I'm Michael I'm not proud of what I've done but I'm now on a young offenders programme and I have a new career selling shonky dusters". Actually, it's probably their second sentence, isn't it.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Sat 5 Jan 13 at 08:44
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If approached by chuggers I tell them what charities I already support and that I don't want to give any more to anyone else. I give about £25 a month to 2 charities, both in the 3rd World and as the temperatures in my house are a matter of record on the forum I give £100 of my Winter Fuel Allowance, split into 4, to UK Charities like the Salvation Army and Crisis at Xmas. I think that is enough. I don't actually get cold called by charities, either at the door or on the telephone.
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The ones that came here were very persistant - would have caused many vulnerable people some trouble. Bit like dog pooh on your shoe they were. I phoned UNESCO to check their bona fides - taking the number from the web. An interesting discovery was that UNESCO have no connection with the United Nations. Which might actually be a good thing.
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www.frsb.org.uk/english/give-with-confidence/where-we-can-help/scam-alert/
Some interesting information on here - I have to say that the UNICEF's tactics have put me off them - I would never give them a penny. After reading this thread I now remember that the Red Cross did the same, less persistant but still rather annoying.
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>> persistant
>>
"English on certain forums"
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=12887&m=289569
>> An interesting discovery was
>> that UNESCO have no connection with the United Nations.
>>
No connection? UNESCO think they do have a connection:
"UNESCO is a specialized agency of the United Nations system"
portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=32247&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html
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Sorry it was UNICEF - a mistake - nobody died.
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>> Sorry it was UNICEF - a mistake - nobody died.
>>
UNICEF: "What does the acronym UNICEF stand for?
UNICEF was established on 11 December 1946 by the United Nations to meet the emergency needs of children in post-war Europe and China. Its full name was the United Nations International Children's Emergency Fund. In 1950, its mandate was broadened to address the long-term needs of children and women in developing countries everywhere. UNICEF became a permanent part of the United Nations system in 1953, when its name was shortened to the United Nations Children's Fund. However, UNICEF retained its original acronym."
"nobody died": good that you are not an advocate of capital punishment.
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>> >> [RP] persistant
>> >>
>> "English on certain forums"
>> www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=12887&m=289569
...where RP quoted "me too i litarelly think i will fall to the floor and start cruing if it is i havent slept or anything he like my child xx"
Not quite in the same league :)
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>> Not quite in the same league :)
>>
True. One of them is a retired solicitor picking on the language skills of an illiterate.
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Should you actually want to sign a DD, don't do it with a chugger. The paid chuggers are usually on hourly pay (otherwise they'd fiddle sign ups) but their employers get paid per sign up - which is likely to be several months worth of your DD payments.
If a volunteer shakes a tin at me for a proper cause they can have my small change. Otherwise I deal direct.
The annoying thing to me is that the big charities in particular "waste" money resoliciting existing donors. I know why they do it, but it annoys me that a large percentage of the cash they collect this way ends up paying for the campaigns. There must be a better way.
It's interesting to see how much different charities raise and how. The RSPCA and the RNLI are stunningly successful with legacies.
www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/apr/24/top-1000-charities-donations-britain
Interesting article on what one very large charity does with its money - the RSCPA.
goo.gl/LGxFW
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RSPCA spent over £300,000 recently pursuing a court case re illegal hunting of foxes which resulted in 2 convictions and fines of around £5,000. Great in principle for not good value for money. 10 years ago this was reported
"The action was taken after the Court of Session heard that only a small amount of the money Breast Cancer Research (Scotland) raised was spent on charitable work.
According to BBC News, the Lord Advocate, Colin Boyd QC, told the court that only £1.5m of £13.2m raised by the Glasgow-based organisation had been used for cancer research.
The judge Lord Drummond Young has ordered that the charity's professional fundraiser, Tony Freeman of Solutions RMC, who has worked for the charity since 1997, should "not be involved in the management or control of the charity." The court was told that Mr Freeman had been paid commission of about 60% of the total income raised through selling lottery tickets."
Has charity fund-raising changed that much since then?
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>> "The action was taken after the Court of Session heard that only a small amount
>> of the money Breast Cancer Research (Scotland) raised was spent on charitable work.
>>
>>
Link to Wiki
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_Cancer_Research_(Scotland)
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Did some fundraising for a local hospice in 09 - whilst the paid fundraiser was in post it seemed to go well - she went off on maternity and her replacement wasn't particularly good - all the local volunteers walked. Shame really. Not had any contact from them since.
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I recently had the VSO coming around asking to form a 'community' with my fellow neighbours to raise cash, I offered the best of luck knowing what the rest of street would be like and best of all this was at 21.15!, I think my response was probably going to be the most civil of the night. I didn't give by the way as I already have my DD setup for my chosen charities.
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To many cold calls lately.Two pounds here two pounds there.Might as well give my bit of pension away.We used to support a young girl in Albania grown up woman now married and lives in Italy.She has been to our house a few times.I always support Dove house with clothes and give furniture to British Redcross.Diana supports women in Ethiopia she has done for years.
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One of the best things about not having much money is that I dont have the option of being guilted into giving anything as I have nothing spare and my clothes with holes etc mean that I am somewhat worse dressed than the woman selling Big Issue in Market Harborough with her iphone - she never shouts at me when I hobble past so I must look the part.
I do empty my coppers into a jar when they put them at checkouts, its not much but Id never spend them.
Last edited by: FoR on Sat 5 Jan 13 at 21:20
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And for anyone giving money to charity, it is possible in some jobs to give money from salary before tax. So the charity benefits and so do you. I guess it's sort of the opposite of gift aid in that the giver gets the tax benefit.
My employer lets us do this ;-) So for example, £20pm wouldn't really cost me that much in take home pay but the charity gets that much. And for higher rate tax payers you can give more and it's better than gift aid I guess.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sat 5 Jan 13 at 21:58
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I've become very cynical about how the large charities operate and often question how much all the slick TV advertising and constant mail shots cost.
Only a couple of weeks back I had a chugger from Scope knock on the door - gave me the pitch about how much good work they had done in the area including supporting a child from the same school as my own. Explained he was only interested in understanding if they could "keep in touch" with me and possibly seek support in the future. I agreed, only for him to ask me to confirm my identity by just jotting down my bank details on his form - a direct debit form!
Refused and asked him why he needed my bank details just to canvas support, upon which he shuffled off down the road.
We have a local hospice which has benefited families of friends and is well regarded in the work it does so I tend to drop a few bits into their local charity shops and also buy in them.
Mrs B sponsors a child in India. Not something I support, but its her money
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Been a lifetime RNLI supporter and donate a worthwhile sum quarterly by DD. I have a connection with the sea but beyond that I like them as a charity because their help is within the UK, visible to all and potentially is of benefit directly or indirectly to almost every one of us.
They strive for excellence in all areas of their core purpose/operation and while now and again it is possible to point the finger at a small failing in any charity over the 40yrs I've been supporting them there has never been anything to change my positive opinion.
99% of the time I turn away cold callers and tin rattlers explaining that I have a chosen charity. I always explain to any seeking RSPCA funds that I have huge issues with the methods and management of their charity.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Sun 6 Jan 13 at 11:37
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>>RNLI supporter
>>I have a connection with the sea but beyond that I like them as a charity because their help is within the UK, visible to all and potentially is of benefit directly or indirectly to almost every one of us.
Their help is beyond the UK.
IIRC the superceeded boats are then sold on to other countries e,g South Africa and New Zealand.
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Yes true and I think they help other parts of the world passing on information and experience but I was just indicating really that I felt the core mission was in the UK which is where I choose to help and also makes their presence, efforts and results very visible to me to make judgements on my level of support.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Sun 6 Jan 13 at 11:43
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Just checked out and an example from Aug'12 is...
Lifesaving representatives from Senegal, Cameroon, Uganda, Bangladesh, India, Thailand, Mauritius and the Philippines have arrived in the UK and are today starting an intensive two-week course, learning vital skills with the RNLI.
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This thread is very interesting, as some of you may know, I work for a local charity and it is good to see "how others see you".
My gut feeling is the sameas many here, local charities tend to be supported due to personal experiences. And the perception is that many of the nationals are too politicised and cost heavy.
There are various auditing publications that show how much profits charities make and what their money is used for. With charity shops, there is a comparison made on profit to income ratios etc and some are surprisingly low!
As always, its not always like for like so for instance if you have a paid manager in your shops, your profit will be less than those who dont. Similarly if you get shops rent free etc etc.
I wouldnt be surprised if in the future there wasnt some sort of FSA type declaration to be made by charities when accepting donations that they would need to say of this £1 , 50% will go on admin etc etc.
But this is where it goes all grey. Your money may go towards, for example, upgrading the charities computer system. Now that could be argued that it is not going towards front line work. But without doing it, the frontline work may cease to happen!
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>>RNLI
>>
I like the training aspect of charities.
One of the charities I support is ORBIS " the flying eye hospital"
It used to be just that but now there is a viewing room for sugeons to learn on site.
They now only go to countries that are prepared to set up eye treatment/ hospitals so they is a big on going benefit.
There was an interesting item on Radio 4 this week about an Aussie charity effort.
Teaching kids in Bangladesh and other far east countries about swimming etc.
250,000 children drown in the far east each year.
They train kids re recovery methods and also supply big inflateable poors for training kids in.
A very interesting programme.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01phm1q
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" ..always support Dove house.."
Me to Dutchie. When I went to visit as a potential alternative to NHS palliative care (not impressed) for my late Father. A warm and friendly place which I found at the time to be emotionally overwhelming. They were prepared to accept my Father in his final days. In the end he did not want to go and remained nearer to home to facilitate easier visiting for Mother.
They are top of my list for donations.
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Never easy losing one of your parents Fullchat.I used to visit my mother regulary after my father passed away.I always felt guilty going home that is the price you pay for living abroad.Dove house is a one off,long may it survive.
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>> " ..always support Dove house.."
>>
>> Me to Dutchie. When I went to visit as a potential alternative to NHS palliative
>> care (not impressed) for my late Father. A warm and friendly place which I found
>> at the time to be emotionally overwhelming. They were prepared to accept my Father in
>> his final days. In the end he did not want to go and remained nearer
>> to home to facilitate easier visiting for Mother.
Compare that to two major childrens respite, palliative & terminal care hospices in my area, run by empire builders who tried to outfight and bicker with each other for donations and funding, with much backbiting and smear tactics, with one taking over the other followed by a bullying, demotions and sackings bloodbath by the winner against the looser.
I could weep at the money, effort and public that was wasted and could quite happily put to death those responsible. The staff managed, despite all this, to provide fantastic compassionate care.
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>> Compare that to two major childrens respite, palliative & terminal care hospices in my area,
Edit
Would you believe, they even tried to poach patients from each other to get better funding?
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'Internal market'. 'Competition'. 'Money supply'.
Unfettered capitalist ideology that came from the US in the early eighties and has been kept going by one government after another for reasons mysterious to me, that quickly generated a baleful destructive new managerial 'class' for want of a better word: the yuppie.
Valuable services beleaguered by sociopathic thieves as Zero points out. Yuck. And people call one old-fashioned!
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>>
>>
>> Valuable services beleaguered by sociopathic thieves as Zero points out. Yuck. And people call one
>> old-fashioned!
>>
It sounds very similar to the state of the monasteries before Henry VIII came up with a good idea.
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A good analogy but probably not for the reasons you intend. Most monasteries in the 16th century were still performing the a useful and valued service by way of providing employment, caring for the sick and poor and providing hospitality that they had done for centuries. This was all swept away by the crown in the name of dogma and greed. There is little evidence to support the view that the dissolution of the monasteries was either justified or welcomed by the population although the crown was happy to widely publicise cases of alleged corruption.
All sounds rather modern doesn't it.
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That was my point really - the institutions were doing a good job, but the heirarchy had created nice career opportunities for themselves and took most of the income.
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Cold calling charities - Zero
