Have spent the best part of 4 hours or so up at my dad's today trying to clear a blocked drain without success.
Managed to syphon pretty much all the water out the pipe and then put down a drain cleaner which we bought which I think was basically pure sulphuric acid but that didn't shift anything.
Now thinking of getting a set of drain rods, maybe something like this
www.diy.com/nav/fix/handtools-storage-workwear/handtools/plumbing-tools/drain_tools/B-and-Q-Drain-Rod-Set-12588577?skuId=13109283
The problem being that the access to the pipe is one of two ways
1. One is through a vertical pipe which is maybe about twice my arm width and the pipe I would need to get the rod along is about 15 inches down the pipe and right angles (obviously).
2. The other access is down the drain itself but I am pretty sure that this then leads to a T junction and I would be needing it to turn left at this point!!
Anyone used drain rods? How much space do you need to get them to bend round a pipe?
Apart from always turning clockwise are there any other hints??
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The most common blockage is a buildup of animal fat, boiling water will sometimes shift it. If you can get any flow, fill all the sinks in the house with hot water and drain them all at once. Failing that, rent a pressure washer with a drain clearing hose.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 28 Dec 12 at 20:38
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They are quite flexible but a 90 turn in a small space is a big ask. Certainly the bamboo ones would not do that. Is there not a decent manhole cover further down that would provide better access?
Have you an inkling as to where the blockage might be and how far along?
This is where those water jet drain clearers have the advantage as they are more flexible but that will mean hiring someone in £££££. I have one for the Karcher. A hosepipe on full blast might shift some carp and is more flexible..
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Where did you get your chemical from - if its shop bought it'll be too weak - you can get much stronger stuff from builder's supplies and the such like. Try the boiling water thing first..
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Amazing things, i fully expected them to break at the turn but they did the trick, at the rear of the house we have a vertical shaft nearly 3ft deep and the drain runs straight through at the bottom, the rods happily managed this 90' turn and fed along and cleared the blockage.
Though with having such a long drop, i often get a couple of two gallon buckets of water from the water butts and sling 'em in quick order down the hole, that sluicing action every now and again has kept things under control for years...he hopes..;)
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>>How much space do you need to get them to bend round a pipe?
Its not that you need space, its that they tend to dig themselves against the opposite side of the bend (i.e. going straight on and wedging).
I've never done very well getting them past a right angled bend if I haven't been able to get to that bend at least with finger tips.
The blockage will be at a place that [obviously] encourages blockages - so a change in width, a corner, perhaps a join between two pipes.
One thing you can do, depending on the age and construction of your pipes, and which pipe it is - you can angle grind an inspection hole the other side of the right hand bend, ram the pipes through there, and then after put a rubber collar over which does up a bit like jubilee clips, to seal the hole again.
With the advantage that you for ever have an inspection hole should you need it.
The other thing you can do is go to the point where the drain comes out. Put a hose pipe as far up as you can get it. Then pack it out with cloth, foam, whatever to seal the exit as best you can, then turn the hose on to blow stuff back up - if you pack it properly you can get a reasonable pressure up there.
Mind you, that can let go a bit suddenly, so cover the toilet, sink, whatever with a towel first.
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I've got a set of drain rods and it's surprising how sharp an angle they can get round. I've also successfully cleared a blocked drain with a pressure washer.
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Nobody seems to have warned you that drain rods have a nasty habit of coming unscrewed if you turn them in the wrong direction :(
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Some drain advice after a blocked drain many years ago.
1 Never put animal fat down any sink or drain, it will set solid when it gets cold and build up in the pipe. We let ours go cold, wrap it, and put it in the dustbin.
2 Maintain your drains, every couple of months fill all your sinks with hot water add some detergent and drain them all at once.
Never had a blocked drain again.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 28 Dec 12 at 21:05
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Also note, the law on shared drains changed this year and they are now the responsibility of the water authority.
The bit that's mine is not much more than 5 foot as the main run is a shared drain.
Blockage on a drain that is solely yours though is still yours.
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Thanks for all the advice so far.
The set up of this drain is as follows
At back of house on the corner is the downpipe from the gutter that leads into a drain and then bends away under the mono block.
About 3 metres away, down the side of the house and in line with the first drain, and in a sloping downwards gradient is drain number 2. This is where the washing machine and dishwasher only run into.
Then about another 5 metres down the sloping driveway is drain 3, but this is set about 2 metres out from the house and this is where drain one and two should lead to but nothing is getting there. This is the drain which is about 3-4 feet deep vertically and you can see the access from drain 1&2 about a foot or so down at right angles.
Thus I think that the pipe from drain one and from drain two come out at right angles from the house until level with drain 3 and then runs straight down into drain 3.
Drain 1 and drain 2 is blocked which makes me think the blockage is after the point where drain 1 and 2 meet.
I was able to put a garden hose in drain 2 and feed it in quite a distance and then syphon the water out. It slowly filled up again which I subseqently realised was the water from drain 1 obviously flowing through.
The drain cleaner I used was this
www.diy.com/nav/fix/plumbing/plumbing-supplies/waste___overflows/-specificproducttype-power_cleaners/One-Shot-Drain-Cleaner-ONESHOT-9271678?skuId=9281378
My dad also had a drain cleaning flex hose to attach to pressure washer but unfortunately none of the fittings it came with would connect to my Lidl "K'Archer" lookalike pressure washer.
Maybe could try one of these if the rods don't work
www.diy.com/nav/garden/garden-tools-equipment/garden-power-tools/pressure-washers-sprayers/pressure_washer_accessories/Expand-it-Drain-cleaning-tool-10787612?skuId=11278320 but I suppose there will come a time that it would be cheaper to phone a man!!
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The block must be in the run to the sewer rather than in one of the tributaries from the house if I understand your description. Are there no inspection chambers? That's where to rod from.
Is it an old house? Does your roof water really go into the foul drain?
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Plenty of arf decent thingimajigs available from Screwfix:
www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsessionid=PyfKQpXKvmqSvp470Vr9xHTTsTBnJLQhp66zk9LP1Yzwg1TV2QRp!734685457?fh_search=drain+cleaner
FM2R's idea of cutting a hole in the pipe is a last resort jobbie, but it worked for me when I tried it.
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After reading this two thoughts:
1. Can you use a flexible metal type drain tool... I can picture what I mean and it might not be a drain rod but something flexible and stiff to push through the blockage to begin with. Might be thinking of a metal spring type rod.
2. Can the drain unblock attachment not be made to fit the 'Karcher-like' pressure washer... I had an Aldi pressure washer which looked like a Karcher one but when I bought a patio cleaner it didn't fit.... use of a file got it to fit fine.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 28 Dec 12 at 22:55
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For tight bends these are best. Rental is a good idea.
www.hss.com/g/51440/Manual-Drain-Cleaner.html
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WHOA!
>>At back of house on the corner is the downpipe from the gutter that leads into a drain and then bends away under the mono block.
>>About 3 metres away, down the side of the house and in line with the first drain, and in a sloping downwards gradient is drain number 2. This is where the washing machine and dishwasher only run into.
Are you saying that both your rainwater and foul water lead into the same sewer? If so I'd be very surprised. How old's the property? IME you'll have a surface water (rain) and foul water (everything else) drains that are completely separate from each other.
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I have seen properties where some foul water (dishwasher and washing machine) appear to go to the same drains as the rainwater. Not right but I've seen it. And it was an ex-council house I think too. Not right but someone has cheated for want of a better word.
Not sure if any of ours are like that. I don't think so. Had drains checked before buying (I've got a DVD somewhere of the checks!).
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Combined foulwater and rainwater drains are relatively common on older houses. The thirties semi where I used to live in Ilford had such a system.
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When we were getting the extension built onto our house (1980s built), the design had the standard different sets of drains for foul and rainwater.
However the local planning advised us that the street only had the one type and everything went into the same pipe at the street so it didn't matter to have two different pipes.
Of course there are other advantages of having two pipes like smell, if rainwater overflows due to flooding etc.
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>> Combined foulwater and rainwater drains are relatively common on older houses. The thirties semi where I used to live in Ilford had such a system.
Yes. Our 1846 London gaff had separate outside drains at the back, but they joined underground and went in a pipe with a very shallow incline right under the house to a big collector under the front area, with a manhole cover. From there it was supposed to go down a waste pipe into the passing sewer under the road.
I had to have a bit more to do with those drains than I wanted. Once the exit to the sewer got blocked and the collector filled up to the brim and backed up under the house until the drain at the back overflowed. So that was what the pong was! Had to probe into the lake under the front area for the outlet pipe with two drain rods - one wasn't long enough - until the blockage moved and a tsunami of hundreds of gallons of our accumulated excrement, bathwater etc rushed into the sewer trying to pull the rod out of my hands. Yuck.
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Drain 1 is a drain for the guttering, rain water.
Drain 2 is just a surface drain for rainwater
HOWEVER
at some point, before my dad got the house (which is an old house), the previous owners had installed a dishwasher and washing machine and literally piped the waste from this through a hole in the wall and down a pipe into this surface drain. It is at the opposite end of the kitchen from the sink and proper waste pipe.
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>Are you saying that both your rainwater and foul water lead into the same sewer? If so I'd be very surprised.
Mine do. As do most of the houses around me.
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>>Managed to syphon pretty much all the water out the pipe and then put down a drain cleaner which we bought which I think was basically pure sulphuric acid but that didn't shift anything.
>>
I read that you have sorted things but.....
To start at the begining. Soda crystals ( cleaning solutions for 200 years!)
Very cheap and easily obtainable. 90p a Kilo in Tesco.
Clears blocked drains. A regular small dose gets rid of the fat build up.
www.dri-pak.co.uk/outdoor-cleaning-tips/drains-gutters-and-waste-pipes.html
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BOBBYG
As of April 2012 Scottish Water are duty bound to clear blockages outwith the house FOC!
It used to be that you could be charged for blockages within your garden area but £3 / £4 was added to all home water bills to cover the cost.
Phone Scottish Water, or through their website, and they will send a van round with rods etc, failing to clear this way a tanker will come around within a day later or so and blast it. Near neighbour has had 2 x visits in the last 6 months due to a bad bend on his property - Rods and Camera was no good - he needed the cavalry with the water cannon!
My grandfather had a plumber's business 50 years ago and, according to him, the biggest cause of blockages was 6" $h1t3s down 4" pipes - for our younger members (15 cm & 10cm)
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Good advice from ON about animal fat.
I always keep a slice or two of stale bread which soaks up the fat and is then fed to the sparrows etc. It makes me feel slightly righteous!
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There was this thread which discussed drains etc, in general.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=11076&v=f
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My my. I'd clean forgotten that one. Thanks to all who contributed on it, and now is the time to tell you I cleared that one all by myself. I got the ironwork out, allowing me access to the pit, got all the standing water out and found it was half full of just sludge, slurry and anything else beginning with sl you can think of. Dug it out with a trowel as it was almost like clay, and it's been fine ever since.
Which doesn't help the OP here, for which I'm sorry, but perhaps brings a sense of closure to a few old timers.
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>>
>> As of April 2012 Scottish Water are duty bound to clear blockages outwith the house
>> FOC!
>>
>> It used to be that you could be charged for blockages within your garden area
>> but £3 / £4 was added to all home water bills to cover the cost.
>>
Not how I read their website.
www.scottishwater.co.uk/you-and-your-home/your-home/pipework-responsibility
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>>Not how I read their website.<<<
"The diagram shows that Scottish Water is responsible for the pipes that lead up to your property boundary. If the burst is on one of these pipes, call us on 0845 601 8855 and we will get our team out to fix it. You are responsible for the pipes inside your property. "
Agreed. Pretty clear!
The only possible difference is if some of the drain within your proprty is shared use. Not addressed by their somewhat oversimplistic guidance.
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We had cyprus tree roots invading drains. Rodding and tree removal solved the problem.
Never deposit fat in drains: sink tidy with poly bag is ideal location for the unusable.. don't want birds dropping with clogged arteries! :-)
Our 1820s property - much modified in 1870/1900/1960s - has separate rain/foul water drainage: some runs under the house eeek!
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>> Never deposit fat in drains: sink tidy with poly bag is ideal location for the
>> unusable.. don't want birds dropping with clogged arteries! :-)
I've seen Robins and Dunnocks pecking around the choice morsels in raw sewage. Doesn't seem to do them any harm - they have tough constitutions.
It's not often that you see a bird that is 'unwell' in human terms though. They are either healthy or dead :)
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FB, according to Scottish Water website
"What is the private drain and who owns it?
The private drain is the pipe that removes the waste water from your property (for example, from your toilet and sinks). It runs from your property up to your property boundary where it meets and connects to the main public sewer. The private drain is the responsibility of the homeowner."
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My lovely Christmas task was to unblock the cottage sewer pipe, which was causing a non-flush backup problem at the loo. It is an old private system dumping the waste in what I suppose is called a cess pit - ie a covered hole in the ground from which it slowly seeps away, heaven knows where.
It turned out the blockage was half way along the straight run, at a point where two sections of pottery pipe are mortared together. The cause was a wedged bottle of shampoo, almost certainly dating from my elderly mother's recent occupation.
It was unresponsive to rodding. as the rod simply pushed it out of the way, allowing it to wedge again later.
The only solution was to dig a hole, smash an entry into the pipe, and then carefully line the gash with bent plastic and cover in mortar. Breaking through of course released the accumulated waste into the hole, which was already filling with mud from torrential rain.
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Beautifully and graphically described Cliff!!!!!
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About 3 yards from my neighbour's back door (in his garden) there is a manhole where his waste from the house meets the pipe coming down from the houses above and flowing down past the house below his.... i.e. although the pipe & blockage are clearly on my neighbour's garden it is a sewer pipe shared by 15 x houses & before it goes into a main sewer at the bottom of the hill.
SW cleared it FOC 2 x in 2012...........the problem is believed to be too steep a drop in level. Failing to clear ends up with the neighbour having the garden covered in "glory" as the manhole overflows!
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The rule used to be that all those upstream of the blockage were responsible. When I looked after the residents' association of a small development we used to live on I had some fun with that, the arguments for not contributing we're interesting. I didn't know until it was mentioned here that the utility now sorted those?
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Meant to update this thread to say that the drain is flowing freely again - so the chemicals must have worked, albeit gradually.
Thankfully didn't need to go down the rodding route!!
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>>
>> Thankfully didn't need to go down the rodding route!!
>>
Lucky rod ! :)
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The water supply company could always be asked if/what they would charge for clearing a blockage in a "private sewer". Excellent Wessex Water hinted that they might do the job once (only) for free. Dynarod would probably cost a lot. Any shared section is now a "public sewer" and the company's responsibility.
Running rainwater into a sewer risks blockages from overloads in storms and material such as leaves, also the sand that collectsfrom the near-imperceptible erosion of clay roof tiles. Wessex give a discount if rainwater is diverted to soakaways.
Septic tanks shouldn't be soakaways but watertight. They need to be pumped out from time to time into a road tanker, for disposal off site.
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>>Running rainwater into a sewer risks blockages from overloads in storms and material such as leaves,
Indeed.
Although slightly more worrying is the fact that then when your house floods, the contents of that flood water are more substantial than you might expect.
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>> Although slightly more worrying is the fact that then when your house floods, the contents
>> of that flood water are more substantial than you might expect.
Yes, that happens here, though not to us, happily. But I think it does anyway if the ground water is really up - there's any number of cracks, unsealed manholes, and ways for it to get into the foul drains. Then the covers lift and out it comes with the payload.
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>> >>Running rainwater into a sewer risks blockages from overloads in storms and material such as
>> leaves,
>>
>> Indeed.
>>
>> Although slightly more worrying is the fact that then when your house floods, the contents
>> of that flood water are more substantial than you might expect.
Fortunately your rainwater tends to substantially flood someone else's house down the slope.
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>> Running rainwater into a sewer risks blockages from overloads in storms and material
Yes, that happened at my workplace for a few years. You would get a storm, the manhole covers would lift and the contents run across a public footpath and into a field. Unsuspecting cyclists would go through - the bikes without mud guards would throw a spray up their backs - nice.
The problem was a surface drain running into a sewage system, this had a right angle further down that couldn't cope with the increased flow. The water company has since separated the two pipes and sorted the problem.
I had a look into the manhole covers and an interesting fact is that the flow increases around 8 am, just as the majority are getting ready for work. It isn't just rush hour on the surface you know :)
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Can we get our nomenclature correct please?
I used to think 'sewer' referred to foul water only, but when dealing with a problem concerning large pipes, I found it means a pipe that carries foul water or a pipe that carries surface water. They're both sewers!
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By coincidence I was at my daughters flat yesterday during the visit of a local drain clearing company.
Her flat is in a conversion of a Victorian house.
The basement flat had their kitchen sink overflow due to other flats washing machine pumping out etc ( but no foul water ).
It was a bit of a challenge to sort it out but he did a good job and it was interesting to watch the camera view on the screen.
The very original build was a bodge. The rain water pipe was teed into the sufrace water sewer somewhere under the side walk No intercept and no rodding eye.
The flat conversion was also done on the cheap so the pipe from the basement sink also joined the rainwater pipe somewhere under the side walk.
When, after several different attacks, the blockage was finally shifted a vast amount of black compost was flushing down for quite a few minutes.
It was not the expected, by me, dried washing powder and animal fat that I was expecting.
IMO the blockage had been slowly getting worse for years. The cause seemed to be moss off the roof accumulating in the pipe.
The visit cost less than £150 which I thought was quite reasonable and a lot less than a well known day glow firm.
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>> The visit cost less than £150 which I thought was quite reasonable and a lot
>> less than a well known day glow firm.
>>
I think the day glow firm is owned by Centrica, as in British Gas. As for cost, 'nuf said.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 4 Jan 13 at 18:12
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>>Can we get our nomenclature correct please?<<
That's a big word, bathtub, I had to look it up, and I've bean edumacated.
^_^
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tinyurl.com/avym5ew
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 4 Jan 13 at 19:34
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>> Dynarod would probably cost a lot.
It depends on the problem.
Some years back I called them out on a Sunday when the whole shebang bunged up. Bloke turned up and spent some hours but couldn't clear it. He returned the following morning, worked for a while and then called in his area manager. So that's two vans on site for several hours and the thing was finally sorted mid afternoon. The blockage turned out to be somewhat downstream of where they thought it was and it took the pressure doubler on their "liquid laser" lance to shift it, or the "we don't like doing this as it can drill holes in the pipe if we're not very careful sir" option as they put it.
They gave me a demo outside the drain and it makes a Karcher pressure washer look like a wet fart.
I was presented with a surprisingly light bill (about 120 quid IIRC, but it was a while ago), which caused me to query as to why. They explained that the first hour is full charge (Sunday rates in my case) and you always pay for that hour, no matter how long it actually takes to sort. The second hour is half that rate. Any further time spent until it's fixed is free.
When I asked how they made any money, the bloke pointed at the "hopper" drain behind the kitchen and said it was people getting 'em in to scoop the leaves out of those. A five minute job and a full hour's charge.
If I'd got a real stinker (figuratively and possibly literally too) on my hands, I'd check that policy still applies and call 'em in.
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Scottish Water have been back 3 x at least and power washed the drains after blockages.
This week a contractor arrived - spades and muck everywhere ( as well as human waste) - pipes have been renewed/ realigned..............FOC to the householders - £5.00 per year was added to all waterbills in Scotland to cover eventualities such as this.
In years gone bye you had to buy an insurance policy @ £50/year or pay-up in hard cash.
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There have ben at least three blockages in our cul de sac recently. We were not affected but a group of houses opposite were. In at least one case Dyno-Rod were called and the householder paid £200 for privilege.
Turns out that, except for blockages within/affecting one property, Anglian Water will deal foc. On last occasion the guy raised various manholes working 'down' the system until he found the one that was dry as opposed to flooded.
He used a self jetting device which powers itself up the pipe with rear facing jets and the obstruction, comprised of baby wipes and female requisites cleared.
We've had a round robin this morning from the worst affected neighbour reminding us all of need for care about what we try and flush. The finger points at households with younger women/teenagers; not mine we've always been very careful to only flush that which is flushable!!
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People with teeth should avoid putting dental floss down the bog too. It can weave itself into a net and cause a blockage anyway in a Victorian downpipe and drain with uneven places for a blockage to form. Spent a mucky couple of hours sorting one of those in our old gaff.
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its not just womens hygene requisits that are a problem, i heard a story from my old foreman who was a keen angler...apparently all the chemicals passed through ladies who are on the pill was finding its way through the water courses and that was making the fish change sex
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>> We've had a round robin this morning from the worst affected neighbour reminding us all
>> of need for care about what we try and flush. The finger points at households
>> with younger women/teenagers; not mine we've always been very careful to only flush that which
>> is flushable!!
Watched grimefighters a few days ago. There were two guys clearing the filters within one of the main sewage pipes - the big ones that you can stand in. One of them said that 80-90% of the rubbish blocking the filters were baby wipes or their equivalent. Surely the manufacturers need to make these things compostable.
You can't tell people what not to flush, there are too many dumbartons around, but you can at least cure some of the problem by dealing with the materials at source.
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when i lived on a sink estate about 20 years ago we didnt have the disposable nappy sewer problem...the residents just used to dump them in the front garden next to the old mattress and cooker
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LOL ...pat how did you know....blue gates road :)
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It just had to be Zookeeper;)
I'm from Tilton but always worked in Leicester!
Pat
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yeah i pass tilton on a reg basis..the 47 is a nice drive then i swing off up to old dalby then melton..long clawson to pick my cheese up
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I've lived in the Fens for over 30 years but Tillton will always be home to me.
I love the rolling hills and always enjoyed the drive over the Coplow on the way home from work.
Having said that I miss Groby Pool, Bradgate, and a little spoy high above Markfield too!
All nice parking spots for a rep to do paperwork and have a luch break.
Pat
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>> dump them in the front garden next to the old mattress and cooker
Babies are squalid little brutes, although one can hardly blame them for it. Young parents can easily get to feel that they are living in the middle of the world's biggest crap dump. But well- treated babies soon grow out of it. They don't want to be a source of irritation. They want food, treats and interesting information.
Some here may have experienced real nappies, gauze and towelly stuff. They are more comfortable than early disposables which tended to chafe when wet. There was some stuff you put them in a bucket with to dissolve the worst of the crap. Believe me, those buckets really needed the tight-fitting lids they came with.
Clumsy young mothers also ran the permanent risk of stabbing their nippers with the huge safety pins needed for proper nappies.
There are compensations to being past childbearing age.
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I understand 'moist toilet tissue' and cotton buds are responsible for many blockages.
I refuse to allow the first to be used despite it's claims to be flushable.
ps. I'm sure we've all experienced the unflushable?
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>> I'm sure we've all experienced the unflushable?
'Just drowning the cat darling! I'll be out in a tick!'
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There is a brand of 'strong' bog roll called IIRC Charmin.
The consequences of using this on a boat with a pump out toilet are not at all charmin. Best avoided.
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Nappysan in a bucket, after rinsing off the worst in the toilet - ah sweet (ahem) memories!
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If it's unflushable, one needs a Pooh-stick.
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We sell HG Duo drain cleaner
Good reports
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Clearing blocked drain - Old Navy
