I see the new iphone still doesn't have a built in FM radio whereas nearly every other phone does, and has done since my early Nokia days.
Why do Apple not do this? I know you can stream radio via wifi apps etc but thats no good when out walking the dog?
Is there a genuine technical reason why they don't install this as part of the phone?
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I guess it depends on your data package but I do have a FM radio on my HTC but I still stream the TuneIn app via 3G whilst walking the dog.
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>> Is there a genuine technical reason why they don't install this as part of the
>> phone?
Probably because most of them are crap at FM radio, never found it to be of the slightest use. It will be dropped from most phones in time, streaming radio is the way to go.
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Another free-to-receive service being dropped in favour of a paid (usually monthly) one. You have to use your paid for internet data allowance to stream radio, and it's quite data hungry if you want to use it a lot. Obviously FM, AM and Digital Radio do not incur any kind of cost to receive. I am thoroughly annoyed that I will not be able to replace my current Nokia N8, DAB enabled phone when the time comes and will be forced to stream. Bah. Progress my backside.
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>>Is there a genuine technical reason why they don't install this as part of the phone?
Space.
Interference
Antenna Issues.
Commercial.
The space is a major issue and the fact that nobody, other than you and the broadcasting companies, wants you to use free radio.
They would prefer that as a minimum you use up your data package and hopefully also register for things such as Napster, or whatever is the trend these days.
In Apple's case they want you on iTunes.
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Not the answer to the question but a suggestion. Select and automatically download a dozen or so podcasts. There is a huge choice , not just from the BBC, and you will always have something interesting to listen to when walking the dog.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Tue 18 Dec 12 at 14:24
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Or buy a separate pocket FM radio from two quid upwards?
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from a hardware point of view, most radio's (on mobile phones) are in place of the DVB-M TV tuners of south Korea, Japan etc.
Hence a FM radio is included in the western world (as we do not have TV on mobile devices).
Last edited by: diddy1234 on Tue 18 Dec 12 at 14:35
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>>are in place of the DVB-M TV tuners of south Korea,
DMB variants, usually - either Terrestrial or Satellite. Where DVB exists, and it mostly doesn't, its usually DVB-H (Handheld). I'm not sure what DVB-M is, although I've been out of the business for a while.
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sorry. yes DVB-H.
I was wrong.
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Do you know much about MobileTV? It was a fascinating subject in its day.
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sorry. afraid not.
Technology missed me on that one. he he
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I love podcasts.
And I find on an Android the free software CarCast does as well as the Apple software on an iPhone. Although it is a bit of a pain to set up.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 2 Jan 13 at 00:39
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"I love podcasts."
Any particular favourites?
Mark Kermode's film review is a must for me and I like Dan Carlin's Hard Core history and also his "Common Sense" program although might be too American for some on here.
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Mark Kermode
The Archers
Simon Mayo (various)
Friday Night Comedy
Drama of the Week
Business Daily
Desert Island Disks
Various Economist, Business Week & the like.
...are the ones I have at the moment, but I go through fits of adding and removing.
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Currently have
Click
Comedy of the week
Daily Bacon
Daily Mayo
Dan Carlin Hardcore History
Dan Carlin Common sense
Feedback
Food Program
Gardeners Question Time
The Archers
The History of Rome
Material World
Media Show
More or Less Behind the Stats
Start the Week
Tech weekly
What the Papers Say
In our Time with Melvyn Bragg
Making History
Science weekly
A fairly eclectic mix
I think I need to lose a few - It's a hard job keeping up!
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Mark kermode
Simon mayo
Robert Elms.
The rest is music.
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For music I listen almost exclusively to either Jack FM or SF 103.7 (both via internet)
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Aboslute 70's, 80's or 90's depending on my mood.
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Good to see Kermode in all three lists. Like to watch live if I can for the full flappy handed experience.
And Hello to Jason Isaacs!
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You lot don't seem to have discovered Classic FM.
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>>I think I need to lose a few - It's a hard job keeping up!
I should bloomin' think it is.
Late night listening is my favourite. That and while lying by the pool - I'd never have time to keep up with that many podcasts.
On the previously mentioned subject of DAB, do many people use it? It was intended as a broadcast system for outdoors and cars. We never built it for in-the-house listening, although retrospective in-fill was being driven by the demand for 2nd room listening, whereas the lack of DAB as standard in cars was a challenge to its entire viability at one stage.
FM was better quality, DAB was supposedly to be driven by being able to avoid any need for RDS and/or station selection by geography.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 18 Dec 12 at 17:41
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We have excellent DAB reception (in the absence of anything else to write home about) around here - works well in the house and with my excellent little Pure portable reception that uses the headphone cable as the antenna I can have R4 wherever I go with the dogs.
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Cool. Always been surprised that DAB didn't totally take off. But there you are.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 18 Dec 12 at 19:48
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It would have been good if they hadnt tried to slice up the muxs too thinly, some data streams are so low (in urban areas) to be appalling in the sound department.
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I found it strange that DAB was being pushed as the next best thing with the shut-down of FM and the implication of car use, then all of a sudden it was dropped like a hot potato with all of the radio adds disappearing (the Stephen Fry ones stand out), only just reappearing with some kind of puppet on the BBC.
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>>It would have been good if they hadnt tried to slice up the muxs too thinly, some data streams are so low (in urban areas) to be appalling in the sound department.
Its called trying to use a UHF TV Broadcast network for radio. The Broadcast Network was designed to hit big, long, sticky-up things on the top of houses, not little, twiggy things inside houses.
Line of sight, and all that.
Penetration is expensive (as they say).
It wasn't MUX planning, it was network (specification) planning. And it was done well, but the requirements changed.
And it was never going to be better than good FM reception.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 18 Dec 12 at 20:43
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>> >>It would have been good if they hadnt tried to slice up the muxs too
>> thinly, some data streams are so low (in urban areas) to be appalling in the
>> sound department.
>>
>> Its called trying to use a UHF TV Broadcast network for radio.
No its called trying to sell too many slices from the pie.
>> And it was never going to be better than good FM reception.
And you are always going to have a hard job selling stuff that is worse. I am also aghast at some of the appalling picture quality of some digital TV streams, again too many slices from the pie.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 18 Dec 12 at 21:09
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>>No its called trying to sell too many slices from the pie.
No, it is not.
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Yes it is, its nothing to do with the size of the sticky uppy thing.
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If you like.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 18 Dec 12 at 21:27
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>> Its called trying to use a UHF TV Broadcast network for radio. The Broadcast Network
>> was designed to hit big, long, sticky-up things on the top of houses, not little,
>> twiggy things inside houses.
>>
>> Line of sight, and all that.
>>
>> Penetration is expensive (as they say).
>>
>> It wasn't MUX planning, it was network (specification) planning. And it was done well, but
>> the requirements changed.
>>
>> And it was never going to be better than good FM reception.
Using UHF and car/outdoor reception are incompatible. UHF requires a high directional aerial and, ideally, one that's tuned to the local group of channels. Digital TV has seen a move from yagis to log periodics with better wideband performance but still directional and roof mounted.
Radio seems to manage slightly better but still line of sight. I can see the Dav transmitter from our roof but reception on a set in the house is variable.
And even if the signal's 100% the quality is poor because of the low bitrates.
Also, there are about eight AM/FM receivers dotted round the house. I've no appetite at all to replace them with expensive receivers that are less flexible and only receive what the broadcasters think I should hear - no foreign or out of area stuff.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 19 Dec 12 at 00:01
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>>Using UHF and car/outdoor reception are incompatible.
If you typed that correctly, then I think you're wrong.
Look at the frequencies and formats previously planned for Mobile TV - ok, slightly more nomadic than as mobile as a car radio, but nonetheless viable.
And BT Movio did MobileTV on DAB for some time.
There are mobile radio systems which use UHF.
Indeed consideration is and has been given to adding to the cellular services already within the UHF bands running from as low as 400MHz and at 700MHz in this country., and most certainly adjacent to them.
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>> If you typed that correctly, then I think you're wrong.
>>
>> Look at the frequencies and formats previously planned for Mobile TV - ok, slightly more
>> nomadic than as mobile as a car radio, but nonetheless viable.
>>
>> And BT Movio did MobileTV on DAB for some time.
>>
>> There are mobile radio systems which use UHF.
>>
>> Indeed consideration is and has been given to adding to the cellular services already within
>> the UHF bands running from as low as 400MHz and at 700MHz in this country.,
>> and most certainly adjacent to them.
I meant what I typed but perhaps assumed the words 'broadcast quality' to be inferred. Mobile radio on UHF is voice only, at low quality with (hand)sets having a tuned aerial.
And the other problem with DAB is that early adoption means we're at least two generations behind in terms of encoding/compression. New sets might be back compaitble but ultimately we're likely to have to start again with newer technology.
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>>And the other problem with DAB is that early adoption means we're at least two generations behind in terms of encoding/compression.
Not really. The issue with/for DAB is two fold; firstly the lack of adoption in cars and secondly the popularity and installed base of FM. Especially now that FM is on an extended lease of life.
It would be better to be on DAB+, as some countries, but that's not the problem preventing its market penetration.
There is also the further issue of revenue generation potential and FM revenue canabalisation.
>> Mobile radio on UHF is voice only, at low quality with (hand)sets having a tuned aerial.
Still wrong, I'm afraid. It can be high quality. It is a balance to be played between number of stations and capacity. This being one of the advantages of DAB+ There is a set amount of bandwidth in a MUX. This can be used for a small number of high quality stations, or a large number of low quality broadcasts. The efficiency of the technology enables that balance to be further toward the top end. The bandwidth required for a higher quality station decreases as the efficiency of the format increases.
The received quality is a function of the amount of bandwidth allocated, not really the frequency at which it is allocated.
Essentially the same that has been achieved with the DTT muxes which was why for some time the BBC channels were more robust than the ITV channels because of the differing implementations of the MUX plan even though they were on the same broadcast network.
The issue with UHF is one of network build cost for in building penetration. So rather than ...
>>Using UHF and car/outdoor reception are incompatible
It would be more accurate to say that UHF is much better suited to car/outdoor than it is to in building.
The technology is improving, but in building remains a UHF problem whereas outdoors its great.
For DAB in particular the SFN implementation has been based upon the original 80ish DTT transmitters without much reliance on in-fill and gap fillers, both of which are required for in building and particularly 2nd room reception.
So, quality a function of bandwidth, penetration a function of network topology and planning. In both cases the frequency is relevant, but not a deciding or gating factor.
Still, I'm in danger of going on, so I'll leave it there.
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>> On the previously mentioned subject of DAB, do many people use it?
I love DAB. I have a set in the kitchen (which is also internet enabled through my home wifi for listening to foreign stations, which I or a family member often do), a set in the car (aftermarket JVC unit), and a DAB application on my mobile phone (Nokia N8, the best mobile phone ever made). I also have a portable pocket DAB, which is out of use now due to having the mobile phone application.
Whilst I confess that the sound quality seems a little worse than FM, the difference is pretty much indistinguishable to my ear. What no-one seems to have mentioned is the range of stations on DAB is significantly bigger and better. My favourite, BBC 5 Live, is available on DAB, which isn't the case with FM. The best music station, 6 Music, is on DAB. Various decade themed versions of Absolute Radio (90s being my favourite). Planet Rock. Radio 4 Extra. None of this I get with FM.
Any car I buy in future has to have a DAB set, or be capable of taking an aftermarket DAB unit without wrecking the dash. It's just about the most important thing on my wish list, and is a reason why I'm highly likely to consider following Fursty Ferret in to an Vauxhall for the first time in my life (30 cars so far, zero Vauxhalls). It'll be a close thing between a 3 year old Mondeo and an Insignia in two years time, I reckon.
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Had a mailing from BMW offering a DAB radio "upgrade" for the 3 Series - £199.00 - bit steep - quite happy with the FM reception there.
My Pures both have the same display and offer a bitrate counter - R4 is pretty scabby, Classic is a bit stronger. Both offer good reception to my hackneyed ears,
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>>quite happy with the FM reception there.
The other two things to consider are;
Is there a station from elsewhere in the country you would like to listen to?
Do you travel to other parts of the country and wish to continue to listen to a radio station from your part?
But it has to be said a compelling reason to change is not easy to find.
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>> I see the new iphone still doesn't have a built in FM radio whereas nearly
>> every other phone does, and has done since my early Nokia days.
>> Is there a genuine technical reason why they don't install this as part of the
>> phone?
>>
Oh come on.... it took Apple long enough to work out how to get a phone signal on an i-phone...
Next plan from Apple is a working sat-nav for the i-phone....
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>> I see the new iphone still doesn't have a built in FM radio
One of its many features is that it is also an iPod. Just load it with all your favourite tunes and you won't have to listen to the dross that they play on the radio these days (which are mainly xmas songs at the moment; with the exception of JackFM who thankfully haven't yet)
>> Or buy a separate pocket FM radio from two quid upwards?
Only 99p in certain stores.
>> You lot don't seem to have discovered Classic FM
I did, but quickly undiscovered it again. If I want to listen to funeral music, then I'd go to crematorium. Or as a bloke at work describes it, "music to slash your wrists to".
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"If I want to listen to funeral music, then I'd go to crematorium."
More radio 2 than Classic FM perhaps
The top 10 Crematorium tunes:
2010 2011
1 1 My Way Frank Sinatra / Shirley Bassey
2 3 Time to Say Goodbye Sarah Brightman and Andrea Bocelli
3 2 Wind Beneath My Wings Bette Midler
4 5 Over the Rainbow Eva Cassidy
5 4 Angels Robbie Williams
6 6 You Raise Me Up Westlife / Boyzone / Josh Grobin
7 9 You'll Never Walk Alone Gerry and the Pacemakers
8 - We'll meet again Vera Lynn
9 7 My Heart Will Go On Celine Dion
10 10 Unforgettable Nat King Cole
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Wot no Queen and "who wants to live forever"?
I want "another one bites the dust" at mine.
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I quite like the thought of the Platters' "Smoke Gets in your Eyes'
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D.Ream "Things Can Only Get Better"
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"I'm forever blowing bubbles" at mine I'm afraid, al mourners issued with kids tubs of bubble blowers.
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9 You'll Never Walk Alone Gerry and the Pacemakers
Is that to remember to take the Pacemaker out ?
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"Always look on the bright side of life" is to be played at mine
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Memphis Slim and Canned Heat version of Mother Earth
This is the song, not the preferred version though
www.top100sradio.com/song/Back%20to%20Mother%20Earth/4928693&album_id=4928692
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I'll want The Verve - The Drugs Don't Work.
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Iphone 5 - no radio - Pezzer
