No mention of the gales and floods? Not affected?
Took the felt off my shed roof yesterday, its currently up there curtesy of some bricks, will be replaced today during the calm spell. Pats right - its now 10 quid a roll!
More rain tomorrow.
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Apparantly it was really bad here yesterday - especially around Llanberis where we used to live. Didn't see much of it myself - beautiful day today. Loads of FB friends have posted pictures of the Great Flood - saw a couple bikers - brave lot.
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Working from from home today. Gorgeous outside but I did hear my wife scraping ice off her car and cursing while I was shaving. Must have taken her a while as I note she hasn't prepared or laid out my breakfast. Bit much really but I suppose in her defence she must have been running late. I shall encourage her to set her alarm a little earlier in the winter months in future...
:-)
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>> I shall encourage her>> to set her alarm a little earlier in the winter months in future...
>>
>> :-)
>>
This is nothing to joke about!!!!!
You need to crack the whip, boy!
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I battened down the hatches in preparation for the storm, and tracked it on the met office site but, although I heard many stories on local radio about its effect on the county, and the West country in general, it was gorn as quick as it came where we live.
This 200 year old cottage with its 2ft thick granite walls & slate roof is at the bottom of a valley (but not right at the bottom where it could flood!) and the storm just blows over the tree tops, so I can see it, and I can hear it, but I don't feel the effects of it - unlike many (most) other properties I've owned (5) in Cornwall.
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Could see lots of flooding coming into Bath on the train this morning (which was having to stop at Tiverton rather than Paignton), and the Avon is looking pretty menacing. Might pop out and take a piccy at lunchtime.
The Cardiff train I was supposed to take was canceled, but that just meant I could take the next one and not change at Swindon (would normally cost an extra £3.50).
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At the junction of South Yorkshire, North Nottinghamshire and N.W. Derbyshire it is a brilliantly sunny day, but chilly at 6C.
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Went to get in the car this morning and found she'd left a window open (West facing side) when she last used it.
She reckoned she'd opened the wrong window by mistake (so why didn't she shut it?). We've only had it for six years and she still doesn't know what a lot of the controls do!
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>> This 200 year old cottage with its 2ft thick granite walls & slate roof is
>> at the bottom of a valley (but not right at the bottom where it could
>> flood!) and the storm just blows over the tree tops, so I can see it,
>> and I can hear it, but I don't feel the effects of it - unlike
>> many (most) other properties I've owned (5) in Cornwall.
>>
Only 2 feet wide? Won't last.
Anything less than 1.5 metres was jerry built. :-)
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They're actually 28" fick, previous (1930's) jobbie was single 9" block :(
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>>Pats right - <<
There's a first;)
Pat
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Worst weather I've spent the day out working in. I nearly got blown over a couple of times and even my full waterproofs started to give up the ghost near the end. I had to drive carefully through a flooded road near Cardigan in the afternoon where the water was gushing down what looked to be a stream but was in fact a footpath. It even featured on the local news that evening.
Lost a few fence panels too (see other thread).
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>> Took the felt off my shed roof yesterday, its currently up there curtesy of some
>> bricks, will be replaced today during the calm spell. Pats right - its now 10
>> quid a roll!
Have you seen the black mark thats made when you knock the roll of roofing felt against your white hall wall? Have you seen how permanent it is and how it won't wash off? Amazing.
Have you seen how much grief a guy can get when the wife see's it? I haven't yet but I am going to find out.
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Try baby wipes. They can get nearly anything off. But don't rub too hard or you'll start taking the paint off too. Allegedly. ;-)
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South Northants bright and sunny but coolish this morning but heavy rain for most of preceeding 24hrs.
Ground waterlogged an the Nene's been over the banks and into fields round Kislingbury. At least the flood defences work and water now goes away from the village which suffered severe damage in 1998.
More rain forecast for tonight/tomorrow so it'll just flow off the ground and onto the roads. Just needs a frost to follow.
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>> Have you seen how much grief a guy can get when the wife see's it?
Easily sorted if anaglypta, by locating emulsion pot and paint brush. Less easily sorted if not anaglypta, and wife will not be pleased with your best attempts at stain removal.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Fri 23 Nov 12 at 10:50
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>>
>> Easily sorted if anaglypta, by locating emulsion pot and paint brush. Less easily sorted if
>> not anaglypta, and wife will not be pleased with your best attempts at stain removal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
He won't have wallpaper - too non-u - Farrow and Ball matt emulsion I would guess, but easily overpainted none the less. A coat of stain block first though would be the best preparation.
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Blimey! - there's even some rain forecast for here: www.bbc.co.uk/weather/6297190
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Bright and sunny here in Arcady. 9 degrees in the motor house so just come in to warm me mawlers with a bit of brisk typing.
Wind and rain forecast for the weekend but no floods here...never.
Ted
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Another sunny day in Norfolk. The storm had the courtesy to pass through around midnight. Quite heavy rain but mowed the lawn this morning. When your garden is on a reclaimed gravel pit free-draining is not the word.
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I have never ever seen rain like the stuff I drove through at about 4.30pm, south bound on the M5 between between Bristol and Exeter, yesterday.
Monsoon doesn't even begin to describe it.
I've got good tyres on the car (always do) and was happy enough at 60mph, outside lane, wipers going as fast as they could with torrential rain....
....when, the torrential rain turned in to something like people throwing buckets of water at the car. I had to throttle off, I couldn't see. Everyone behind me did the same, so I slipped in to lane 2 and then lane 1...... and eventually, by leaning forward a could 'just' make out the white line for the hard shoulder (and could feel the rumble strip), then inadvertently would wander over towards lane 2 and just pick out the white marking for that. Stole a glance at the speedo and I was doing 35mph.
Kept checking behind as I didn't want to be rear ended, but everyone else was doing the same as me.
Must have been bad, there was no tit doing the gung ho outside lane challenge regardless.
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I only just made it home from work yesterday. It's extraordinarily difficult checking whether puddles are lakes or not on an unlit A-road, with reflected light from one's own and other headlights.
When it was too late to stop and consider I suddenly found myself in deep water. The car behind had stopped, an oncoming car had likewise stopped and flashed its lights, and I realised I was on my own in the middle of a 100 yard boating lake.
I realised it's stupid to try and reverse in a flood, or do a 3-point turn not knowing where the road ends and the ditch begins, so I just pressed on. I drove slowly in first, slipping the clutch to let the engine rev fast, and the car just kept on going like a motorboat.
Nearer home I had to make several diversions to avoid further flooding, and then with only half a mile to go there was a tree across the road. So another diversion, another minor flood (you get blasse after a few) and home at last. My wife and daughter also made it home shortly after, in different cars, each having encountered the same tree of course and having made the same decisions about alternative routes.
Today I sensibly took the LandRover and stormed through regardless.
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Fri 23 Nov 12 at 13:28
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Flippin rain followed me across the Atlantic! Landed in Sacramento 4pm last Friday just as the heavens opened. Then proceded to rain on & off for the next 3 days. Boy were my friends happy because we are laying a lawn in their back yard. Spent 3 days prepping, sorting irrigation levels for sprinklers, moving tons of aggregate then had yesterday off and begin rotavating today. Two thousand sq ft of sod (turf to us) being delivered tomorrow so a busy weekend ahead.
Temps back to normal. Mid /low 60s, cloudless blue skies.
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If I had a v12 Merc, not sure I'd want to do this with it (and he comes back again!):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySI_FOpk84g (fun starts just after 2 mins in)
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What souless places those new build out of town housing estates are, the one he drives through for the first minute i'd hate to live there, even driving through it virtually gives me the creeps.
Don't mind a good sploshing through a decent ford or similar to wash the salt out during the winter, and now and again run the car though a local one as winter passes for that reason, wouldn't risk what he's doing though, more money than sense.
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>> What souless places those new build out of town housing estates are
Any idea where it is gb? Can't make out the sign at 3:41.
Looks (and sounds) like he gives it some welly in between runs, although he might not actually be going that fast, difficult to tell.
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>> Looks (and sounds) like he gives it some welly in between runs, although he might
>> not actually be going that fast, difficult to tell.
Its not "that" fast, that's a very wide angle lens, makes the sides seem to rush by.
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>> Its not "that" fast, that's a very wide angle lens, makes the sides seem to
>> rush by.
60 limit road, centre lines are every 9m - no, not that fast; between 50 and 60 by my rough calculations. Slow for a CL600 anyway :)
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>> >> What souless places those new build out of town housing estates are
>>
>> Any idea where it is gb? Can't make out the sign at 3:41.
Its Staverton
The flood is on the B3105 between the B3106 and the B3107
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 23 Nov 12 at 22:49
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>> Its Staverton
>>
Well done Z, was going to google the company sign in clear shot when he returns to the bridge.
Still hate those out of town new builds, or new villages.
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He hasnt got the balls to turn down the B3106 to Holt tho has he!
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Bath ahead, Bradford on Avon to the left (B3107) Melkesham to the right
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Was that bloke in the red fishing?
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The one at 3:22 looks like he's just walking - somewhere else?
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>> The one at 3:22 looks like he's just walking - somewhere else?
5:05
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>> >> The one at 3:22 looks like he's just walking - somewhere else?
>>
>> 5:05
Ah yes - but the same one I think, just taking a photo.
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>>What souless places those new build out of town housing estates are<<
It reminds me of where I growd up, except 'my street' had more trees! goo.gl/maps/Rr2nz
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Thought it was a bit on the parky side tonight.
tinyurl.com/cvz9u5k
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BBC 10pm news weather forecast just said that by the end of the weekend there'll be another Atlantic front with more heavy rain coming our way. Great.
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We (Sweden) had a bit of snow last night, and the forecast says -2 to -8 for the foreseeable.
I'm off to put the plow on the tractor!
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Just booked a house for 3 weeks in La Palma in February Dog. The Canaries surely have one of the best climates on the planet.
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Yes indeedy CG, I read an expat forums posts from Cyprus and Spain throughout the week and a retired chap (Hepa) in El Hierro often mentions how warm and sunny it is there, compared to the Med.
3 weeks CG! how the other half live hey ;-)
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Just been speaking to one of our reps who is currently attempting to come over Woodhead Pass. He says it's pretty treacherous and icy. He's in an automatic Passat estate which is generally quite good at coping with the slippy stuff but of course he can't do anything about the "others".
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Only -5C in our greenhouse overnight.
Not really cold at all...
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>> but of course he can't do anything about the "others".
Same applies when you've got winter tyres. You can still get stuck. Unless everyone has them they might not be as useful as they could be.
A colleague used to come over the snake pass on an almost daily basis at one time. He got a long wheelbase Landrover.... still got held up at times because of the cars.
I one came back from Sheffield via the snake pass in poor weather. The pass itself was open but the road up towards Glossop was very slippery and I'd wished I'd gone via M1/M62/M60!
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3 weeks CG! how the other half live hey ;-)
It's a cheap holiday. Once the cost of accomodation and cheap flight are paid for I don't spend much more than I do here - I fact I will save the best part of a months heating bill.
Have though of buying a place out there but think it would be too much hassle. Cheaper to rent.
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>>Cheaper to rent<<
Peeps on the expat forum seem to be of the opinion that one would have to be arf daft to purchase property in the current economic environment but, there are bargains to be had - if you know the market.
Best to rent for say 3 months, and then check the goss.
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>>Peeps on the expat forum seem to be of the opinion that one would have to be arf daft to purchase property in the current economic environment
Depends on what you're buying;
Anything intended for gringos in pretty little estates of crammed in Villas were massively over-priced in the first place, and despite the fact that prices have fallen, they've probably got further to go.
However, the stuff intended for locals, was not over priced in the first place, has fallen a lot, and probably has no more, or at least little more, to fall.
So if one was looking for a home in a non-tourism village for example, then its probably a good time to buy. If one was looking for sunny Bognor surrounded by Brits in an estate of Villas, then not only is it not a good time to buy, its going to get worse.
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I know of many peeps in Spain and Cyprus who can well afford to buy, but choose to rent.
I also know of folk wishing to return to Gran Britannia for health reasons etc. but cannot sell their property.
Our very-own UKIP Rodger took years to sell his place in the CdS.
The good thing about renting is - if you need to up stix mucho pronto, it's a damn sight easier to do, than if y'all have a property to off-load.
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>>I also know of folk wishing to return to Gran Britannia for health reasons etc. but cannot sell their property.
And that is one of the reasons that gringo housing has further to fall. And impending further falls are what make it a naff time to buy this type of accommodation.
And waiting for prices to recover in this market is pointless, it will be a VERY long time. They were bought for far too high a price driven by competing demand from other foreigners. Now there is no demand from any foreigners, and the properties are not desirable to either locals as a first home or to other nationals as a holiday home.
A good time to buy will be when one starts to hear that people in need of urgent return to the UK are able to sell their homes and the value at which they sold it is not dissimilar to the prices that other properties are available for.
The non-gringo market is quite different and a much better investment bet. However, they don't come with British neighbours, fish and chips, or an English speaking corner shop.
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>>The good thing about renting is - if you need to up stix mucho pronto, it's a damn sight easier to do, than if y'all have a property to off-load.
And seriously good deals are available from people who do need to up sticks and therefore are desperate to rent for silly money.
But the whole secret to buying abroad is to know what you want and how you will use it. You'd be surprised how many people don't.
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The housing market in N California sems to have bottomed out after substantial, say 30/40% falls. My friends bought their current home from a builder who had gone bust, rent their old home to a neighbour who fell on hard times and had to sell up (to pay for medical procedures..something we never consider) and rent out another small property they own.
Even teachers have been laid off and there is job uncertainty everywhere.
And its snowing in the mountains, wet & windy in the central valley. Perfect conditions having just helped put down a 2,000 sq ft lawn in their back yard.
Last edited by: legacylad on Thu 29 Nov 12 at 17:26
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Prices fell in a lot of areas in California. I know of some that have taken the opportunity to buy homes for half of what they sold for a few years back. One is about to buy another for rental income. They own two already (live in one and rent the other).
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We still um and ah occasionally about a property in St Pete's or Coco Beach in Florida....
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>> We still um and ah occasionally about a property in St Pete's or Coco Beach
>> in Florida....
OOO no. You would be worrying every hurricane season what was going to happen to it.
Cali for Ni A is the place, on the coast. As least the huge earthquake only comes once a lifetime.
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>>Cali for Ni A is the place, on the coast.
Depends on the lifestyle you're looking for, as well as access to the UK.
I've got a place in the Bay Area which works for me, but it wouldn't work for everybody, and its not that accessible really. Its just a long way from the rest of the world.
Even for me I can see the advantages of living in a non-tourist, Spanish village, off the beaten track. Very cheap prices, low cost of living, generally nice people, reasonable access to the UK, and a slow pace of life. Easy to get there and back quickly, cheap enough not to need to rent it out.
Family considerations to one side, I'd happily swap it for the usual places I live and travel to.
Personally I would say that if you're a Brit and you're not used to living outside the UK, then the US would be a mistake. Go rent somewhere in Spain, the non-gringo bit, for a year or two. If that's ok, then consider living somewhere as far as the US.
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I live on Anglesey - can't get much more of a gringo than that - trust me.
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Just buy a banjo Rob, then you'll be able to talk to the locals in their own language.
:-)
www.tabfox.com/pictures/Delivrance_Duelling_Banjos46537.jpg
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Thu 29 Nov 12 at 21:20
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I had a chat with Charley Boorman about that this time last year...!
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Hope its not this weekend!
Going to SF tomorrow for two nights before flying home to proper beer, with a decent creamy head, on Monday.Plenty of snow around Tahoe next few days, but not proper cold powder stuff for decent skiing.
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No FM2R
Please can we 'squat' in your place this weekend? Catching Amtrak from Sac Friday am and sensibly visiting museums as the forecast is poor.
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been to Hurst castle yet?
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You would be welcome, although Foster City is a little way out of San Fran, but there some of rabbits friends and relatives there at the moment.
Weather is usually poor in SF, especially at this time; I can recommend some "off the beaten track" wineries, or perhaps Santa Cruz, which is quite pleasant out of season.
Actually getting piddled in Half Moon Bay is usually fun.
And Amtrak? You must have got a lot of time.
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>> Hope its not this weekend!
its Waaaaa-aaay overdue.
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>> Plenty of snow around Tahoe next few days, but not proper
>> cold powder stuff for decent skiing.
Seems like the Tioga Pass is still open across the High Sierras.
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Might be closed soon then Zeddo if the forecast is correct.
All I know is we are due for several days rain here in the Sierra foothills...Placerville to be precise.
I am fortunate to have travelled Highway 1 several times in the past few years. In summer in a Hertz Stang with roof down so I am familiar with the main sights...one of my favourite being Nepenthe restaurant on Big Sur where you almost always have interesting cars parked up to admire.
Point Reyes is another nice spot, and even Carmel, despite the tourists, of which I am one , has a certain charm (I proposed on the beach there so have a soft spot for it).
We would never drive into SF..leave the car at Vallejo and catch the high speed ferry, or Amtrak to Richmond then BART. Slow but acceptable for the drinking classes (us).
Grumpys Bar, suitably named, near Levi Plaza has good burgers, beer and is friendly (closed weekends) as is the Dive Inn pub, bottom of the Embarcadero close to AT & T park where we watch the Giants play in season. Decent beer, tequila slammers and burgers pre match at 11am. Bit different from Ribblesdale.
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Email from California today: 20inches of rain expected on US west coast over next few days and 20' feet of snow on the Truckee Pass
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Daughter is living in Helsinki. 40cm snow this weekend (some down, more to come), which rated half a page in the inside of the newspaper. She's sent a pic of her tram passing a nearly buried car.
We were there 2 weeks ago and it was unseasonably warm.
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Freezing fog here ( south Cheshire ) at the mo.
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A FB friend in Alberta reports a strong wind chill-factor -24 C. Another friend not far from Humph reports a covering of snow on the Wales border.
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Bring on the heavy snow my tyres love it.
And the Railways grind to a halt it's fun. :-)
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Hmmm plans scuppered ! "She" is going on her work Christmas night out tonight about 10-12 miles away across country. I had thought to have an evening of "Have I got news for you" and "QI" etc slacked out on the sofa with a tumbler or two of the decent whisky I keep for me and visitors I like.
Freezing fog has elicited a "would you mind awfully darling, but could you give me a lift there and I'll call you when I'm ready to come home" plea.
All I can reasonably hope for now is a light dusting of the white stuff so I can have a play with the LEC on the roundabouts then...
Maybe I'll grow up one day.
:-)
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>> Freezing fog here ( south Cheshire ) at the mo.
>>
And in North Staffs..
No doubt -1C in the South will be treated as a disaster..Bunch of wusses...
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Thats because we have cars, and use roads down here. We dont sleep with out Animals in't barn, or burn cow dung to keep warm.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 30 Nov 12 at 19:41
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, and use roads down here.
Until the snow falls...
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Snow falling now in Strathclyde!!
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>> Thats because we have cars, and use roads down here. We dont sleep with out
>> Animals in't barn, or burn cow dung to keep warm.
>>
You Southerners keep animals in the house and dogs in your beds :-)
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>>You Southerners keep animals in the house and dogs in your beds<<
Well, it was either her, or her friend Sue you see, Sue had no tits (I don't think she's even got any now) she lives in West lunden and has gorn al arty farty - far to posh for the likes of me.
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Between Luik and Aachen the snow was coming down in BIG flakes yesterday around 7pm. Gritters and ploughs were out in force the E40 was a bit slippery but moving. Got to the East side of Aachen and all was clear.
Bit of fun on the motorway to help focus the mind and pass the miles. Winter tyres...never mind, won't go there, suffice to say I was legal.
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Revival of the same old weather question at this time of year..............How many of you are going to be brave enough to leave the heating on 24/7 until March? - taking the latest price hikes into the equation.
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Certainly not me, I'm waiting to see how much Eon's price rise is as my fixed deal ends in January.
Pat
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It was all nice n' warm when my friends visited from Plymouth yesterday at mid-day.
The fire was roaring away, all the Tiffany lamps were on - a proper cozy cottage in fact.
Little do they know I usually sit here with just a 6v halogen desk-lamp, and don't light the fire 'til late afternoon.
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Snowing here, now.
Deepest, darkest, non leafy Surrey!
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Snowing heavily in Rochester. Travel news says that the M2/A2 London bound which I am about to head on to is stuffed - joy !
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Ian is heading for Darenth, Tunbridge Wells, Sidcup, Dartford and Aylesford....in that order and reporting much the same as Skip.
Superb bit of planning since the Tunbridge drop is needing a 70 mile each way detour to get around two 14 6'' bridges with a 14' 10'' trailer for one pallet.
Pat
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Some really big flakes as I was walking to Earley station before 7. Then while waiting for my (delayed) train, one came in and left on the opposite platform - it was using the 3rd rail, and it put on a spectacular show of arcs/sparks as it pulled away, continuing as it disappeared into the distance. Train info now saying delays of up to 90 mins on that line...
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>> Train info now saying delays of up to 90 mins on that line...
Trains back from Reading to Earley still alternating between 'Canceled' and 'Delayed' - mine (1753) is the latter. Usually a bad sign when they don't give a figure.
ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/dep/RDG/EAR/To
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 5 Dec 12 at 16:17
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>> Ian is heading for Darenth, Tunbridge Wells, Sidcup, Dartford and Aylesford....in that order and reporting
>> much the same as Skip.
>>
>> Superb bit of planning since the Tunbridge drop is needing a 70 mile each way
>> detour to get around two 14 6'' bridges with a 14' 10'' trailer for one
>> pallet.
>>
>> Pat
>>
Logistics - don't you just love it when they are not logical? :-(
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"How many of you are going to be brave enough to leave the heating on 24/7 until March? - taking the latest price hikes into the equation."
Well it goes off at midnight and comes on at 6.30 a.m but apart from that I just leave it on all the time. Thermostat set at 21C. Gas fire in lounge if it gets chilly. Normally turn the heating off in May. Turn off the rads in unoccupied bedrooms though.
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>> Well it goes off at midnight and comes on at 6.30 a.m but apart from
>> that I just leave it on all the time.
Our heating oil currently costs £1140 per annum just to have the heating on eight hours a day for six months of the year. That's all we can afford.
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It's 16.6 in ere and 5.4 out there. I'm not cold though, and the fire is ready to light this afternoon.
Why burn money?
:-))
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>> >> Well it goes off at midnight and comes on at 6.30 a.m but apart
>> from
>> >> that I just leave it on all the time.
>>
>> Our heating oil currently costs £1140 per annum just to have the heating on eight
>> hours a day for six months of the year. That's all we can afford.
>>
What size is your house? I don't reckon ours is £800, but then the heating is not on much. Have you a fire wood or coal?
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>> >> Our heating oil currently costs £1140 per annum just to have the heating on
>> eight
>> >> hours a day for six months of the year. That's all we can afford.
>> >>
>>
>> What size is your house? I don't reckon ours is £800, but then the heating
>> is not on much. Have you a fire wood or coal?
>>
I'm guessing that your heating is mains gas, which is much cheaper than oil. Unfortunately our road hasn't got mains gas.
We have a modern well insulated (ceiling, walls and floor) three bedroom bungalow. We have an electric fire in the lounge, but it only gets used very occasionally ~ our electricity bill is currently £520 per annum as it is.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Wed 5 Dec 12 at 11:07
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No it's oil as well, but mine (£800) is just a rough guess. Our road hasn't gas, it's either wood/coal/oil/bottled gas.
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I do that every year (heating on 24/7 in winter, I mean). Keeps an even temperature indoors and means the boiler fires only occasionally, even in very cold weather. Well insulated modern house.
At the end of the summer this year, I switched suppliers and got some money back from the old supplier, with whom I was in credit. I was paying £139 a month for gas an electric for a four double bedroom, three reception, detached house with two bathrooms, family of four people. New supplier is £12 a month cheaper and I don't expect any nasty surprises leaving the heating on 24/7 all winter as I have done previously. I am given to believe that my spend is pretty much spot on the average for my size/style of house and size of family, so it seems that leaving the heating on all day and night doesn't cost any extra.
In our old house, a drafty three bed Edwardian semi with its original rattly sash windows, I was often presented with a bill of around £600 every year in addition to the direct debits. Doesn't happen at the new place (been here 3 years now). It's nearly twice the size, and it's cheaper to heat.
Last edited by: javascript:void(null); on Wed 5 Dec 12 at 09:49
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>>so it seems that leaving the heating on all day and night doesn't cost any extra.
Please, not that old chestnut again!
The heat you're putting into a house is to replace that what's being lost. The higher the temperature differential between inside and outside temperatures means the greater the rate of loss of heat and the more energy needed to maintain a constant inside temperature.
Would you set the thermostat at 20c 24/7 if you were leaving the house empty for a fortnight, on the basis it would be cheaper than turning it off?
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>> Would you set the thermostat at 20c 24/7 if you were leaving the house empty
>> for a fortnight, on the basis it would be cheaper than turning it off?
>>
No, because there wouldn't be any people in the house needing the warmth. It would be cheaper to leave the house cold for two weeks and heat it back up on return on a one off basis, evidently. But seeing as there are people in my house pretty much 24/7, it doesn't make any sense to let the house keep cooling down to below 21C and then having the boiler race away to heat it back up again twice a day. The end cost of the two approaches is probably about the same, but the end result for me is that the house is never cold, and my heating/energy bills are exactly what I should expect for the size and type of house I have. So why on earth would me and my family put up with periods of low temperatures in the house every day? Ever tried working from home when it's 2C outside without the heating on? If I am financially any worse off with this approach (which I doubt, as I have tried the two approaches and never saved any money either way, in fact in my old house I used to do it your way and ended up with massive extra bills every year), then it's a small impact and I'm happy to pay it for the house to be warm all the time.
If you're going to have heating, then have it on. The only way to save money on heating bills is to switch it off completely, or set the thermostat lower. I don't want to do either.
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Bedrooms should be cold. I can't sleep if I leave the heating on full (20C in sitting room). If it's really freezing and we keep it on to stop pipes freezing etc I have to turn it down a bit at night.
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You'd like it in my bedroom then sea cow, as I have the window open all night.
:}
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>> If it's really freezing and we keep it on to stop pipes freezing etc
I fitted a second t/stat, effectively across the time switch, set to 5c. It means I can leave the house protected at any time of the year.
This was thirty-odd years ago and I'm aware modern controls and boilers do this.
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>> >>so it seems that leaving the heating on all day and night doesn't cost any
>> extra.
>>
>> Please, not that old chestnut again!
>>
>> The heat you're putting into a house is to replace that what's being lost. The
>> higher the temperature differential between inside and outside temperatures means the greater the rate of
>> loss of heat and the more energy needed to maintain a constant inside temperature.
I'm just surprised that so few people seem to realise that.
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So you're saying it's cheaper to heat a house up to, and maintain it at, a particular temperature twice a day (morning and evening I presume is most people's approach), than to keep it level through day and night? I don't think that makes much sense. By leaving the heating on all day and night, it spreads out the times the boiler fires and burns gas, rather than having it work almost constantly twice a day, then fire up occasionally to maintain the temperature.
I'd like to have the Mythbusters team look at this one!
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I guess it depends how quickly your boiler can heat up and what temp you set the thermostat to?
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>> So you're saying it's cheaper to heat a house up to, and maintain it at,
>> a particular temperature twice a day (morning and evening I presume is most people's approach),
>> than to keep it level through day and night?
bathtub tom is correct when he says "The heat you're putting into a house is to replace that what's being lost. The higher the temperature differential between inside and outside temperatures means the greater the rate of loss of heat and the more energy needed to maintain a constant inside temperature." It's Newton's law of cooling. tinyurl.com/cgswdg8
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Also, the amount of gas my boiler will burn to heat the house from cold twice a day may be greater than the gas it will burn maintaining the thermostat controlled temperature at an even level, when it switches on occasionally through the day/night.
I suppose it depends on a huge amount of variables, but from what I've seen of my gas usage an bills, leaving the thermostat to do all the controlling, rather than the timer, works for me in my house.
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>> works for me in my house.
Works for me too. Thermostat lets temperature rise morning and evening to 21, but never lets it drop below 19 at night and 20 during the day. The boiler is always on and provides hot water to the immersion tank too.
Our gas bill is way below the national average, despite having a 3 bed detached house with draughty windows and sub-standard loft insulation.
I've always figured that letting the house get too cold requires more energy to re-heat it than having regular short top-ups to replace lost heat as and when needed.
In truth, there's probably little difference between the two approaches.
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It defies logic for it to be cheaper to have it on all the time, but I have known a number of people to believe this including my father.
The rate of loss of heat is proportional to the difference in temperature between inside and outside (the temperature gradient).
So you'll use more heat leaving it on all the time for sure. The only obvious thing that can change the effect on the amount of gas used is if something changes the efficiency with which the boiler converts gas to heat in the rooms.
It's hard to see why a boiler should be more efficient when it's working at a lower rate, once up to temperature; I'd expect it to be designed for best efficiency at full power - but I'm not a proper heating engineer, or any kind really.
I suspect our village hall gas bills are higher than they need to be and it might be cheaper to leave that at a constant temperature all day. Most of the users seem to have no idea what a thermostat is - if they feel cold, they wind it round to 36C, then when they are perspiring freely they knock it back to 15. When I was the chairman I put a screw through it, and the toddler group woman fell out with me.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 5 Dec 12 at 12:08
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>>It defies logic for it to be cheaper to have it on all the time<<
No it doesn't ... if the owse is super-insulated.
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>> >>It defies logic for it to be cheaper to have it on all the time<<
>>
>> No it doesn't ... if the owse is super-insulated.
>>
Dunno if it's "super"insulated, but it's the best insulated cave I've ever inhabited. So much more comfortable then the draughty, dank old Edwardian thing we used to live in. Hooray for modern houses, and hooray for the English aspirational middle classes, always willing to pay a premium for "period features"! (draughts, damp, dry rot, leaky roofs......)
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You're doing the 'right thing' java - in your property, your heating bills prove that, our previous owse (a 1930's bungalow) was single block, and to leave the heating on, even from say 6am to 11pm would have cost a trifle more-than the £1300 we used to pay for our dual fuel.
This old owse (18th century stone cottage) has 2.5ft fick walls, and once I put a match to the multi-fuel stove, it heats up nicely in here, plus it retains that heat - unlike the previous place.
I'd like to build (get built) one of these ere blimmin super-insulated homes, with Sheeps wool insulation and triple glazing, South facing for the ole Solar panels, maybe even a wood pellet boiler ...
and stick two digits up at all the foreign-owned energy crooks.
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>> >>It defies logic for it to be cheaper to have it on all the time<<
>>
>> No it doesn't ... if the owse is super-insulated.
Yes but you're a druid, you have different logic!
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>>Yes but you're a druid, you have different logic!<<
Vulcan druid actually :-))
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Vulcan druid actually :-))
Bill Bailey... on this forum!
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The Energy Saving Trust say have the heating on when you want the house to be warm and not 24/7
www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/energy-saving-myths
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>> The Energy Saving Trust say have the heating on when you want the house to
>> be warm and not 24/7
>>
>> www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/energy-saving-myths
>>
That also tells me to use an airer instead of a tumble dryer. Yes, the tumble dryer costs money to run, but fixing condensation and the resultant damp problems caused by airing washing indoors can be fiendishly expensive too.
As ever, things are rarely as simple as one line answers in multi-variable conditions.
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Just read through that stuff. Clothes horse in a heated room? What year is it... 1958?
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I think this is apples and pears, so to speak. There is no sensible comparison or relationship between the running costs of a boiler continuously or several hours a day and the moisture and condensation resulting from using an airer vis a vis a tumble drier.
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No, but all their advice is given without any hard information to back it up.
If one thing doesn't stack up then it doesn't give me much confidence in the rest of it. Which is not to say it's right or wrong, just that more information is required.
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Point taken. My timer is broken so I set the thermostat to about 17C in the morning and down at night. Heating hasn't been on since 10am and lounge is an acceptable 19C. House is well insulated and a semi, which helps
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>> I think this is apples and pears, so to speak. There is no sensible comparison
>> or relationship between the running costs of a boiler continuously or several hours a day
>>
Common sense tells me that a house heated throughout the day to keep it at a constant 20C should burn more energy than a house kept at 20C for 8 hours, as the average temperature of the latter house for the whole day will be some degrees under 20C (how much below 20C depends on how much colder it is outside and how good the insulation is).
>> and the moisture and condensation resulting from using an airer vis a vis a tumble
>> drier.
>>
I may be wrong, but the doesn't the human body give off more water in respiration in a day than a load of spun-dried clothes will?
Last edited by: John H on Wed 5 Dec 12 at 15:45
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It probably does but the moisture from a tumble drier is either vented outdoors thru trunking or condensed and pumped out as liquid
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>> Just read through that stuff. Clothes horse in a heated room? What year is it...
>> 1958?
I'm aware that our energy use is sub optimal, it must be because we pay £148 a month for dual fuel. About £700 electric and £1100 gas, for a three bed detached bungly hole. I don't think the walls are insulted, but it is double glazed mostly.
It would certainly be more if the washing went in a tumble dryer. We have a washing creel slung above the gas Rayburn. Heave ho me hearties when the washing goes on.
You have to remember to remove the washing before cooking kippers though.
Similar to this goo.gl/0yZfA
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>> The higher the temperature differential between inside and outside
>> temperatures means the greater the rate of loss of heat and the more energy needed
>> to maintain a constant inside temperature." It's Newton's law of cooling. tinyurl.com/cgswdg8
>>
I wish I knew more about this, but from what I can gleam from the internet, it's not quite that simple:
"Convective heating or cooling in some circumstances may be described by Newton's law of cooling: "The rate of heat loss of a body is proportional to the difference in temperatures between the body and its surroundings." However, by definition, the validity of Newton's law of cooling requires that the rate of heat loss from convection be a linear function of ("proportional to") the temperature difference that drives heat transfer, and in convective cooling this is sometimes not the case. In general, convection is not linearly dependent on temperature gradients, and in some cases is strongly nonlinear. In these cases, Newton's law does not apply."
Source: good ol'l Wikipedia.
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If the house is well insulated, it shouldn't be losing large amounts of heat during the day or night, so the boiler won't take long to bring it back to temperature after being off for a while. I mean properly insulated walls, loft and double glazing.
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I wish We had the bottle to try it, its been 12C in here for the last three days! ;-(. I`m not saying that the "Hostess" is on a cost cutting drive, but it`s a bit much to hear her shouting upstairs "Thats one unit" "thats two units" when I`m having my shower!!
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12c is too cold at your age ike ;)
Um gonna 'light my fire' now - not for me but for Milo you understand.
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22C to 23.5 C is about right for sitting around. I''ve just put on the gas fire as the room stat is showing 19.5C.
Q:- Is it cheaper to use a balanced flue gas heater - just for the one sitting room, or is it better to fire up the gas central heating, using a 6 yr. old combi boiler, which perforce heats, at least partially, the rest of the house, (subject to the rad. stat. setting on the radiators)?
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>> 22C to 23.5 C
I think I'd find that far too hot. I spend most of my time working outside so I suppose I'm used to it. I find most shops far too hot as well, why do they have the heating on so high? A lot of the time I end up taking my jacket off and just walking in a T-shirt even in winter.
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>> >> 22C to 23.5 C
>>
>> I think I'd find that far too hot.
23.5 is a warm summer day, far too warm for me in the house. 20-21c is our comfortable temperature indoors in winter. Bedroom is at 18-19c
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The boiler is old in my house, so I don't know what the temp is controlled at and there's no thermometer, but 23.5 I agree does sound too warm.
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Thermals and long johns are cheaper than heating...
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>> I wish We had the bottle to try it, its been 12C in here for
>> the last three days!
I would find that unbearably cold!
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Our gas & leccie works out at around 985/1000 GBP per annum. I pay a fixed, by EON, DD @£70 per month which I top up by debit card when it suits me. Currently (!) in credit by well over two hundred quid, until this month's quarterly bill.
That's with an EON Age UK fixed rate (until July 2013) dual fuel, paying by DD.
I've just checked with EDF who have a fixed deal until 2014 and based on actual usage, that would save us £30 per annum.
EDF don't support smart meters yet and the potential saving for the rest of our EON contract is not worth the hassle of changing.
I tend to micro-manage our finances: SWMBO chides me for being obsessive about money.
I check our bank accounts every day and also have a basic money recording program (ACE Money) which gives our overall position at a glance.
Last edited by: Roger on Wed 5 Dec 12 at 14:09
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Was up and out this morning at 06:30. No snow at my place, yet 250 yards down the road it was settling. Big band of snow across beds, herts and bucks, a bus had slid sideways down the exit ramp at baldock services A1.
Suddenly found myself on about 100 yards of black ice on a side road just outside Stamford, daren't touch the pedals (road noise had suddenly gone quiet - eery) with a lurid 4 wheel sideways slide round a bend.
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no buses in the way this time, I hope :-)
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Yep I can confirm, north Herts got hammered this morning.
Traffic on the A1M southbound stopped from Biggleswade to Welwyn.
Took me an hour and a half to get to work (normally 35 min drive).
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>> Yep I can confirm, north Herts got hammered this morning.
>>
Hammered? How many feet of snow is that?
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It was about an inch I think.
But It was a hell of an inch I tell you.
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Ok an over estimation.
However, Most of the main roads were grid locked in the usual direction southwards (I was travelling north).
Every road that fed onto the A1m was at a stand still as well and it took me an hour just to get out of town.
The main problem wasn't so much snow but compacted ice that made very slippery conditions plus no gritters had been out on the roads (but how can they grit non moving roads ?).
Very slippery conditions.
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Around an inch or so of very wet stuff at home. Cul de sac quite slippery (was able to test ABS!). Once on main roads fine, in fact I'd say snow line was around 350feet - much less down by the river at around 250.
Frozen on patches though - station car park was treacherous on foot - I used the bike as support. Train ran perfectly OK and London cold but running normally.
Mrs B said traffic flashes suggested mayhem on A5 Towcester to and beyond MK. She was working in Aylesbury today and glad she went via Buckingham and Winslow.
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n.
>> The main problem wasn't so much snow but compacted ice that made very slippery conditions
>> plus no gritters had been out on the roads (but how can they grit non
>> moving roads ?).
>> Very slippery conditions.
>>
Round here - where it's grim oop North - councils grit the night before snow is forecast.
Obviously toooooo thick to do that down South...
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>> Obviously toooooo thick to do that down South...
Problem with that is grit being washed away by rain that then turns to snow. The rain/snow line is pretty unpredicatable too. We were not forecast snow at all today until radio said it was falling. Rain/snow line was around 300feet Snow at home, around the 350/380 mark but down in next village 100foot or so below just wet.
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Complete shambles and chaos at Waterloo, just now.
"Freezing conditions this morning have affected transport services across significant parts of London and the South of England. On our network the weather caused severe icing of the rails earlier which resulted in our trains being unable to draw the necessary power.
The Icy conditions have caused lengthy delays across the South West Trains network, and as a result we have put in place a contingency timetable which involves running fewer trains than usual on all routes in and out of London Waterloo. Hourly services are currently operating on each route across the network and this is expected to continue for the rest of the day. "
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>> Complete shambles and chaos at Waterloo, just now.
Euston said to be working normally but the third rail on Southern REgion was always susceptible to ice. Chaos/shambles for us arises when something drags the overhead down.
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>> Obviously toooooo thick to do that down South.
This beastie spreads wet grit which sticks to the road. My road was gritted at about 4.30 this morning, not by a super gritter.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-20559230
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It rained most of the night down south , so it would have been a waste of time and money.
Of course, they never realise that rain washes away the salt up North!
Pat
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Clearly it had slipped down the slip in fear at my approach
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>>Had any earthquakes lately
About 3 weeks ago. It was a 5ish. Enough to take stuff off shelves, but nothing else.
They used to scare me, not so much anymore.
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How do the hounds react in an earthquake? do they give you any warning?
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Woke up at 6:30 to big fat flakes of snow in North Hants. Settling well, too.
It had petered out by 7:30 but had left enough to make a few snowballs when clearing the car windows off, and to render the road markings invisible on our estate.
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>>How do the hounds react in an earthquake? do they give you any warning?
Not good enough to help. Well, I've only one now, but I should think it'll be the same. They get completely unsettled and start pacing around. They also suddenly get close to me and won't leave. But its not until the earthquake actually happens that you can be sure.
Storm have the same impact, but we don't really get storms here. In Brasil or the UK then they react to impending thunderstorms as they react to impending earthquakes here.
During an earthquake they're rubbish. If you need rescuing from a drug crazed gunman, they'll be there for you. But if you need guiding out of a dust-filled room in an earthquake? They're rubbish.
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>> Storm have the same impact, but we don't really get storms here. In Brasil or
>> the UK then they react to impending thunderstorms as they react to impending earthquakes here.
Yeah mine acts as a storm warning
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My wife admitted to me the earth moved for her many, many times, when she was in Tokyo & Osaka.
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That looks better!
This afternoon I spent some considerable time washing the salt spray off the X Type. It was dry sunny and the temperature was OK in urban Surrey.
I like to keep the car reasonably clean when snow is forecast so that the process of removing the snow does not include dragging dirt etc across the paintwork.
That Irishmans law bit this morning!!! We had to leave about eight this morning (Far too early for us retired dribblers!!!) for a medical appointment so de- icing / de snowing was required. Had forgotten about that commuters morning regime
Fortunately I had bought a de- icer trigger bottle last night and that together with my faithful extending handle soft brush ensured hat part went well.
We hit local traffic delays that then turned into school run congestion and further local traffic before we could get to the A3 and freedom.
0
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There was one in Wales a few years ago whose ripples reached Ladbroke Grove. I thought it was a lorry passing and shaking the building a bit which sometimes happened, but it went on too long.
Roll on fracking to keep gas prices low and us on our toes, eh?
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A friend who lives at Leverstock Green thought she was in an earthquake in December 2005. It was Buncefield going up!
www.hse.gov.uk/news/buncefield/index.htm
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>> www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2243251/UK-weather-A-little-snow--lot-chaos-airports-roads-hit-inch-falls.html
>>
>> :-(
If you scroll down to the "Cracked bumper near Banchory, Aberdeenshire".
That is some cracked bumper!
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So all of yesterday, right up to midnight, we were being warned that there was going to be substantial snowfall over the Central belt of Scotland and the M8 corridor.
This was supposed to start about 3am and carry on through the rush hour.
We were getting all the warnings, wrap up, pack your car with 2 months supplies etc etc.
Not a drop of snow.
Zilch
Never even had frost on my car last night, the central belt is covered in rain.
How can the forecasters get it so wrong, literally a few hours before they claim the snow is due?
Little wonder drivers don't pay heed to warnings.
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Met weather forecast for our part of the High Peak is heavy snow today for 6 hours. Is there a warning? No. Zilch. Suppose the denizens here know what to do - retreat to their troglodytical dwellings, below the radar?
Last edited by: NIL on Thu 6 Dec 12 at 09:57
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>> How can the forecasters get it so wrong, literally a few hours before they claim
>> the snow is due?
Our climate Bobby. A depression coming in off the Atlantic with a warmer/cooler rain/shower cycle is predictable. Exactly how it will react on meeting a mass of colder air and/or opposing flow is not.
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>> How can the forecasters get it so wrong, literally a few hours before they claim
>> the snow is due?
>>
The forecaster got it right, but the public don't understand statistical forecasts.
Even when the forecast predicts a 99% probability of snow, remember that there is a 1% chance that it won't snow.
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No snow here in NE Notts.
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>> public don't understand statistical forecasts
Don't think about probability at all more like. Probably buy lottery tickets too ;-)
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The snow and ice of late has reminded me just how handy the electricaly heated windsreen on my S-Max is. No scraping, just sit in the car while the screen does its job in a minute or two, by which time my seat heater has warmed through nicely. And by then there is enough heat to clear the side windows too.
Off to Cologne tomorrow where the forecast is snow and -4. Bring it on!
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Got yer wintry tyres for Prussia, Boxsterboy?
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Well, what a revelation that trip was. Me in 2wd S-Max with winter tyres, mate in 4x4 Merc ML with 'normal' tyres (OK, they were Kumhos, so perhaps normal is not the correct word!). Heavy snowfall as we approached Cologne on Friday evening - apparently it had been snowing there all day.
I had no difficutly and I had always thought that a 4x4 with normal tyres would be reasonable in snow. I now know otherwise! My mate had real difficulty both in a straight line on the autobahn and at low speed turning.
So buy a 4x4 if you want, but if you want to make progress in snow, you're going to need winter tyres, just like any other car. Which to my mind sort of undermines one of their perceived benefits.
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Fog and -3 down here in not too rural Surrey.
www.camvista.com/streaming/waltonbridge.html
See what I mean!
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>> Fog and -3 down here in not too rural Surrey.
Same here in South Northants. Came home via PC world to pick up a new router then a stop at Tesco on the ring road for bits/bobs. Came home 'the back way'.
Even on familiar lanes (and I've been here nearly 25yrs) moving slower than normal and with no cues from longer sight lines one is soon disoriented. Can see how folks screw it up and end up in the hedge.
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Went down from -1 to -9 Fahrenheit on the way from Kentish Town to here tonight. But by the time we got here was up to -6. Lots of patchy fog but nothing to keep one below 60 apart from mimsers. Loss of adhesion (well under control of course but a bit untidy the second time) only in the last mile: a long-standing puddle turned to slush and scattered, and a place where there is always water running across the road, both on sharpish bends. A big herd of deer scattered as we reached the house. Yum yum! Grass ice cream! They are rugged beasts despite their dainty appearance.
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Good point AC.
Weekend of 1/2 December we had heavy frost here but water was still flowing off flooded fields. Deep but patchy slush on old line of B4525 under the railway and up towards the A5.
Group of lads in a Corsa had come off s/b A5 at only slightly excess speed and hit slush to end up in ditch. All OK but rather sorry for their wounded pride.
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WEATHER (again) - R.P.
