***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 8 *****
Couldn't think of a jolly title this time around.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 16 Nov 12 at 00:55
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Seems the Tory peer was a case of mistaken identity.
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>>Seems the Tory peer was a case of mistaken identity.
It seems to becoming a witch hunt. People will be hurt just by an accusation.
The media has a lot to answer for!
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In fairness a victim ID'd him it would be pretty hard for the media to ignore and risk being part of some sort of concpiracy. Although granted not all of them had the choice above some will have been more wild in their speculation.
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>>It's humph'd fault...I knew I could have ...
Er, no, you've done a far better job on life Pat. I've got/had one or two things which are a result of occasional extremes of income. But I'd much rather have had a proper job like you.
:-)
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>> Seems the Tory peer was a case of mistaken identity.
>>
Poor excuse. Are we to believe that at no point during Mr. Messham's interview, and the preparation before it, did someone not do the absolutely basic check of showing him a photograph of Lord McAlpine and asking, "Are you sure this is him"?
I am however willing to bet that had it been a Labour politician implicated, a more rigorous check would have been made.
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Let's look at this - Senior Detectives would have shown, or sanctioned the showing this Meesham a photo of some random guy telling him that it was, let's say Lord Snooty - that would have been a breach of PACE and every procedure relating to the showing of photos to witnesses, consequently blowing any chance of securing the identification as admissible for court is pretty outrageous in a very, very high profile enquiry. The other factor and in the name of all that is sane if any victim had alleged he'd been scuttled by Snooty that Knacker wouldn't have felt his collar...or that some honourable cop wouldn't have whistle blown the whole thing in the intervening years..? Or do we believe the Masonic conspiracy theory. Laughable. I smell publicity seeking - a comment the other night 'I demand to see David Cameron"
Last edited by: R.P. on Sat 10 Nov 12 at 08:27
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>> Let's look at this - Senior Detectives would have shown, or sanctioned the showing this
>> Meesham a photo of some random guy telling him that it was, let's say Lord
>> Snooty - that would have been a breach of PACE
My understanding was that be HAD years ago been shown a photo of a man he recognised as his abuser and told that it was "Lord McAlpine". Subsequently he has named the wrong one for which he has now apologised. Whether any other Lord McAlpine was guilty is a separate question.
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Haha the conspiracy theory didn't take long to rear its head.
Private Eye have revived a story I don't even remember at the time about Cyril Smith.
griffinwatch-nwn.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/more-on-establishment-paedophile.html
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Or neither, I hope you mean.
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>> named the wrong one for which he has now apologised. Whether any other Lord McAlpine
>> was guilty is a separate question.
Were there two or more lord McAlpines running around at that time then?
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 10 Nov 12 at 10:48
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>> >> named the wrong one for which he has now apologised. Whether any other Lord
>> McAlpine
>> >> was guilty is a separate question.
>>
>> Were there two or more lord McAlpines running around at that time then?
"Jimmie" McAlpine seems to fit the profile. Now deceased I believe.
This reminds me of my hit-and-run accident in about 1999 when I was run into by a car that scarpered. It turned out not to be in the possession of the registered keeper, insured, or MoT'd, nor findable by the constables.
I found it myself in the local travellers' camp, and the rozzers interviewed the lady who admitted to being the user, but said that on the day in question she had lent it to someone named Jimmy, surname unknown, address unknown, believed to have returned to Liverpool. Enquiries were pursued on my behalf under the legal cover, which I was unaware of until they sent me a letter saying they they had been informed that "Jimmy", in addition to being unfindable, had now been reported to them as dead!
That was the first time I was able to laugh about it.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 10 Nov 12 at 11:53
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>>... had now been reported to them as dead!
Last night I was looking at the website for a school reunion held to mark 50 years since the boys joined the school in 1962. There was a full list of 117 names from 1962 and an indication as to whether they attended the reunion and a few added comments.
I was rather depressed to see that eleven of the 117 men, who would only be about 61, were marked down as having died.
Then I realised some of them may have just have pretended to be dead so as not to have to attend!
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>>Some of you may wonder at my annoyance at the comments on this thread.
>>A number of my customers thought I should allow them to ‘grope’ me to get that elusive contract, that big order and keep my sales figures good.
>>Pat
I was in sales for 8 years.
People deal with people, it's rarely as simple as price and service.
I was never propositioned or groped. But I was offered a few bungs, to which my answer was always "sorry, somebody else is paying my wages so I'm working for them". But there never seemed to be a grudge (I never came over all sanctimonious) and I don't know that it did any harm.
And it was probably easier to find a competitor who would take a bribe (rife in the motor and associated trades) than it would have been another female rep to grope.
But I wasn't there. I'm sorry you had to put up with it. Perhaps it was a bit more personal than an offered bribe.
I wouldn't regret not going into sales management though. That's why I left in the end, I didn't think that taking people to task over their targets was a proper job. That and the fact that every time I did my targets, they put them up!
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I'm a Sales Director of a high profile fashion business. Whoopee ( not ) It's a hard game these days.
I met a guy the other day, he has a mountain bike hire / sales / repair mini business in a log cabin by the visitor centre in a forest, wood burning stove etc. Knows most everything there is to about mountain bikes and mountain biking. Don't suppose he makes a fortune. One of the nicest, apparently most grounded people I've met in a long time though. I envy him.
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I notice that kids are starting to call people of "dubious" persuasion "Jimmy Savile"or use it as an insult now!
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>I notice that kids are starting to call people of "dubious" persuasion "Jimmy Savile"or use it as an insult now!
Was that a direct reply to Humph's confession that he's in the fashion business or just coincidence?
;-)
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Kevin, I have a comment. The second word of it is "off".
:-)
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Just going. Pass me coat will yer!
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Humph, I hope you weren't offended by my jibe. It was aimed at the fashion industry in general, not you personally.
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No of course not Kevin. And to be honest most of the jibes directed at the fashion industry are deserved. There are some deeply self important people involved. There are also some really clever and pleasant ones too as in any sub group.
It's a funny old game which relies almost entirely on the propensity of humans to feel insecure about themselves to create a market. No one actually needs most of the things we offer but in many cases they really do want them and having bought them in many instances people genuinely feel better about themselves, so maybe there is a certain symbiosis after all.
I try not to rationalise it anymore.
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>>No one actually needs most of the things we offer but in many cases they really do want them and having bought them in many instances people genuinely feel better about themselves, so maybe there is a certain symbiosis after all.
High fashion is just a branch of Healthcare then ;-)
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"High fashion is just a branch of Healthcare then ;-)"
Judging by the brilliantly observed "Getting On" on the BBC.
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>No of course not Kevin. And to be honest most of the jibes directed at the fashion industry are deserved.
My point was that the fashion/modeling biz, like the pop music scene, has a penchant for young flesh.
Is there a similar scandal lurking in the shadows?
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Sadly no, when I was young lad in this environment I was never forced into sex acts by an older female model. I kept hoping mind. I did though get to help strap Jasmin le Bon to the Eiffel tower once so she could sort of hang off it while being photographed and I once went on a date with the Harmony hairspray girl. ( she wasn't wearing any by the way ) Hairspray that is !
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>> Don't suppose he makes a fortune. One of the nicest, apparently most grounded people
>> I've met in a long time though. I envy him.
>>
Mate of mine, when I was coppering, was a director of his own company and was doing somewhat well for himself....(enough to buy a 2,000 mile, year old, W12 Bentley coupe, as a toy).
One night, sharing a beer in the local, we found out we envied each other.
Me..for the obvious...Bentley, huge house in desirable part of N. London, several holiday homes, really good cash flow
Him...structured career path with what others consider is a modicum of success, tremendous work camaraderie, worthwhile job (giving something back to the community type thing), excitement/buzz, good pension.
So...the grass is always greener.
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>> I'm a Sales Director of a high profile fashion business.
Do you sell chapeaus by any chance? Or am I confusing you with Armel Coussine?
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Director General of the BBC resigns over Newsnight false allegations against Lord McAlpine.
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Just wondering whether the kicking he had off John Humphreys had something to do with it....didn't handle it well.
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>> Just wondering whether the kicking he had off John Humphreys had something to do with
>> it....didn't handle it well.
The DG looked pretty silly faced with evidence of Guardian etc coverage but Humpty was way OTT in his questioning. A softer but more forensic approach would have revealed more.
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You also have to wonder if he thought: "I've had enough"... he took over fairly recently and it's all gone wrong at the BBC. And he's inherited a mess.
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He appeared a right muppet before that select committee as well.
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>> Just wondering whether the kicking he had off John Humphreys had something to do with
>> it....didn't handle it well.
>>
2 weeks ago he was on shaky ground with his poor responses to the committee in the House of Commons. He was not in control of anything, he stumbled, mumbled and just appeared completely out of his depth.
He was on Breakfast earlier today and Charlie & Louise(?) ran rings round him............he was all at sea and the comment I made again was the same as 2 weeks ago...........he had to go for the benefit of himself and the BBC.
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To have to admit to have not known that that programme was going out - that was it, after the Newsnight Savile debacle he was either stupid or didn't care.
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....another victim of that silly little git's publicity seeking gobbiness....
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There are an awful lot of people who should consider the maxim "time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted". and then use it.
Starting with Tom Watson MP.
I find it unbelievable that the DG did not have a PA dogging Newsnight and reported directly on anything at all dubious.
Obviously not.
I expect Lord McAlpine is going to collect several large payments for libel.. starting with the BBC, George Monbiot, and several hundred thousand on Twitter where the precedent has been set over the reporting of a rape victim's identity.
Last edited by: madf on Sun 11 Nov 12 at 10:23
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www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2231212/A-victim-delusions-Astonishing-story-BBC-DIDNT-tell-troubled-star-witness.html
I'm glad that this information is now in the public domain - the man is an absolute disgrace to himself and not least the other victims who have now disappeared under the media feeding frenzy. The man's a fool and the BBC should have realized that.
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T_WATson is just that!
Is it just a co-incidence that the supposed abuser just happened to be a prominent Tory and a confidant to Lady Thatcher?
Or is it that the Newsnight team are so anxious to be true to their left-leaning, pseudo-liberal-Guardianista principles that objectivity was dispensed with?
Just asking. :-)
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The Bureau for Investigative Journalism - whose reporter was responible for the latest Newsnight shambles - and whose boss tweeted the name of Lord McAlpine - was set up by a known Labour supporter...
Well wotasurprise.
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I find it amazing that someone as unpleasant as JS undoubtedly was (and all the others of similar ilk), now has/have a form of smokescreen taking away from what they did....
........and the smokescreen is created by investigative journalists doing either half a job or only pursuing what they want to pursue to get the angle that they are looking for, as opposed to trying to get to the truth.
I'm really glad we have a free press, certainly when you compare us to some other countries. Trouble is, this sort of thing abuses it and how free is it, if the next dollar and sensational story is the only real consideration.
I wonder if the Leveson Inquiry will change much?
Where's Iffy by the way? We need some balance.
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>> I find it amazing that someone as unpleasant as JS undoubtedly was (and all the others of similar ilk), now has/have a form of smokescreen taking away from what they did....
Surely Wp, the point now being made (by the annaraccoon blog among other sources) is that owing to a number of false allegations, some of them against Savile, the extent and number of actual indictable offences has been exaggerated by some media, including the BBC which we all thought was better than that? I have been surprised myself by some of the incautious behaviour. The beeb seems to have lost it rather, and is too huge and diffuse to struggle quickly to its feet.
I have said right from the start of this thread that the exploitation of star-struck teenagers, some perhaps underage, has been fairly peacefully going on in the music industry since, er, the mists of time.
The Leveson inquiry is a waste of money and very boring.
I too miss Iffy. He knows something about news reporting.
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>> Or is it that the Newsnight team are so anxious to be true to their
>> left-leaning, pseudo-liberal-Guardianista principles that objectivity was dispensed with?
>> Just asking. :-)
I suppose when they were trying to drag the labour party and Tony Blair through the mire over the Iraq WOMD they were far right, with overbearing thatcherite doctrine principles?
just asking.
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>> I suppose when they were trying to drag the labour party and Tony Blair through
>> the mire over the Iraq WOMD they were far right, with overbearing thatcherite doctrine principles?
>>
>> just asking.
>
NAh. Same charge sheet as Rog only with anti patriotic/anti 'our brave boys' tacked on.
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So he's up for nearly £1/2 Million payout to boot. I despair!
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I wonder how long it is before he loses the £450k payout - which most of us are helping pay for! In the real world he'd be sacked.
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>> I wonder how long it is before he loses the £450k payout - which most
>> of us are helping pay for! In the real world he'd be sacked.
No he wouldnt, in the real world he would have said "I have been in the job just under 8 weeks - all this happened under someone else watch, here are the people I am sacking"
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The problem is he was in charge of some departments before he became DG. I think he's been dropped in it somewhat. But this was a time for someone to be in charge - he was not up to the job.
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And don't forget he also gets his large pension pot. So a total of about £1.3m. But he earned a lot of all this in the years in senior roles like overseeing Newsnight. Or last year being head of BBC Vision... so in overall charge of all shows on BBC1 and BBC2.
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>> I wonder how long it is before he loses the £450k payout - which most
>> of us are helping pay for! In the real world he'd be sacked.
>>
Without wishing in any way to defend him, isn't that 'just' his annual salary? I assume his contract specifies a 12 month notice period, in which case since he's resigned and they dont want him there then he's entitled to the cash. It's not really a 'payout' but a contractual entitlement isn't it? I assume sacking him would have entitled him to the same if not more. Whether he should take it or not is another matter...
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The expression, (Hush Money) comes to mind.
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>> The expression, (Hush Money) comes to mind.
>>
Nothing of the sort.
Just standard practice in the State Sector where you can't sack people, they just resign out of the goodness of their heart as a gesture of their sense of Public Duty.
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He also knows , "Where all the bodies are buried".
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>> He also knows , "Where all the bodies are buried".
>>
Bad joke.
Entwhistle would not recognise a dead body if he saw one in a coffin and no-one would tell him anyway where the bodies are.. A singular lack of interest in anything going on.
Patten made an awful choice...
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>> Entwhistle would not recognise a dead body if he saw one in a coffin and
>> no-one would tell him anyway where the bodies are.. A singular lack of interest in
>> anything going on.
>>
>> Patten made an awful choice...
Don't wish to embarrass you...but...I felt the need to award a green thumb.
Many modern managers are like Entwhistle is, well they are in public service...and it is exceptionally frustrating. Meeting after meeting after meeting and nothing is really achieved.
Then when you go to them with something that needs a decision or decisive action....nothing really happens.
As staff junior to them, but in a management position, you just have to make the decisions yourself...and even then you're surrounded by people who think that's unwise, in case you get it wrong and upstairs wouldn't like it.
I'm not kidding unfortunately.
Entwhistle's problem was..he got to the top....no one else left to palm it upwards to, rather than actually do something.
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>> Patten made an awful choice...
........... Patten IS an awful choice.
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>>The expression, (Hush Money) comes to mind.
Yeah, that'd be it. He's the only one who knows and all they have to do is pay him and the whole thing will disappear forever.
Fancy nobody else realising.
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That's how they spend the TV tax!
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>> That's how they spend the TV tax!
You dont pay TV tax.
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If he is being criticised by MPs for his payoff, IGNORE THEM.
They are being hypocrites. McShane was allowed to resign before being thrown out - thus ensuring he keeps his golden goodbye etc.
As it's our money, the BBC throw it around like confetti..
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>> >> That's how they spend the TV tax!
>>
>> You don't pay TV tax.
No - but I still object to it. I am only exempt by effluxion of time (I'm OLD!)
I CHOOSE not to pay any SKY subscription.
I might well CHOOSE to pay for BBC output.
If the BBC is so good, it should survive on a subscription basis, as does SKY, not be funded by an anachronistic charge invented when broadcast media were young and untried.
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>> If the BBC is so good, it should survive on a subscription basis, as does
>> SKY, not be funded by an anachronistic charge invented when broadcast media were young and
>> untried.
And the free service taken away from the aged. What you gonna do then? you cant survive on stealing pirated stuff all the time.
Re-arrange: mouth, horse, gift, shoot, in the.
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I pay SKY about £915 a year, (excluding movies.) On top of that they show more advertising than any other commercial tv chanel, and no radio chanels. The BBC has to be one of the best bargains you can buy !
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>>
>> >> If the BBC is so good, it should survive on a subscription basis, as
>> does
>> >> SKY, not be funded by an anachronistic charge invented when broadcast media were young
>> and
>> >> untried.
>>
>> And the free service taken away from the aged. What you gonna do then? you
>> cant survive on stealing pirated stuff all the time.
>>Re-arrange: mouth, horse, gift, shoot, in the.>>
If you read my post, you might have seen that I said "I might well choose to pay".. for BBC output.
Yes, that would be a financial disadvantage in my case, but I still hold to my point that is is not right to force the TV tax on folk.
It is therefore, not a question of my shooting my own foot, but of being prepared to suffer a monetary cost for a principle!
So there :=)
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I can't claim to watch much TV, but I'm sure that at least 95% of what I do watch, is BBC (1,2,3,4 etc). For all its faults, it has the best programmes - and I detest the adverts which only tend to underline the totally dumbed-down nature of the commercial beast.
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There are some okay shows on other channels but the best TV we've watched over the last couple of years has probably been from the BBC. Or at least broadcast by the BBC. These include some Danish programmes like:
- The Killing and the Killing II (series 3 starts next weekend)
- Borgen series 1 and 2 (second series to be broadcast soon)
- The Bridge (Swedish/Danish)
And the second series of the Hour starts on Wednesday and that is a BBC production I think. Or paid for by them. Production company probably not the BBC.
Another programme I rate has been Homeland. Second series on Channel 4 at present. It's got plot holes as is often the case but worth a watch.
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"I might well choose to pay".. for BBC output."
No you wouldn't.
If the BBC was on a subscription basis you would obtain that illegally too like the rest of your viewing.
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It would appear the journalist responsible for the Newsnight article has prior form...
tinyurl.com/cgcgdy7
It would appear the BBC don't vet anyone . Mind he was ex BBC so that's all right then.
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The BBC has fallen down in the street like one of these obese people who need the fire brigade and heavy lifting gear to get back on their feet. It may just lie there until it is kicked apart by the powers that be. That would be an enormous potential loss to us all.
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Isn't it a shame that George Monbiot could be facing a libel case because of his over enthusiasm to put the boot in to a Tory Toff. Maybe Top Gear could organise a whip round to pay any legal bills...
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>> Isn't it a shame that George Monbiot could be facing a libel case because of
>> his over enthusiasm to put the boot in to a Tory Toff. Maybe Top Gear
>> could organise a whip round to pay any legal bills...
Actually it is. I don't agree with him but at least he makes us think.
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>> Actually it is. I don't agree with him but at least he makes us think.
>>
You might disagree if you woke up to find "Pedo Skum" painted on the front of your house because somebody wrongly identified you as one.
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>I don't agree with him but at least he makes us think.
It saves him the trouble I suppose.
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I dont think much of someone who knows better going round tweeting lies, I hope he gets taken to the cleaners for every cent he has
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>> I dont think much of someone who knows better going round tweeting lies,
>> I hope he gets taken to the cleaners for every cent he has
>>
There must be quite a few thousands sweating now including Mrs Bercow ?
What dangers may lie ahead for libellous tweeters
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20299551
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Already happened.
tinyurl.com/aeuu9d3
Open season for McAlpine..to sue
tinyurl.com/ch3yqwz
""Let it be a lesson to everyone that trial by Twitter, trial by the internet, is a very nasty way of hurting people unnecessarily, and it will cost people a lot of money," Reid said.!
Last edited by: madf on Thu 15 Nov 12 at 16:03
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I would be quite happy to be labelled a paedo, be proved within hours that the allegation was incorrect and receive 185k within a fortnight. And more to come.
What's the bets that will be more than any abuse victim will ever receive.
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>> "I might well choose to pay".. for BBC output."
>>
>> No you wouldn't.
>>
>> If the BBC was on a subscription basis you would obtain that illegally too like
>> the rest of your viewing.
Aha - you're a mind reader, are you?
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No, just aware that leopards rarely change their spots. You seem to have no problem with illegal downloading of other content providers wares and indeed seem rather proud of it. I just can't believe that you are going to suddenly start paying for your news and entertainment.
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Another arrest today, Dave Lee-Travis.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-20336798
Coverage suggests it's not directly related to Savile but has 'come out in wash'.
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DLT (Dave Lee Travis) arrested by police
tinyurl.com/ccmaz3x - The Telegraph
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Apparently he's a cereal offender.
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Ofcom has today launched two new broadcast investigations. The first relates to a Newsnight report broadcast on 2 November into child sex abuse allegations. The second relates to the disclosure of a list of individuals alleged to be linked to child sex abuse on ITV’s This Morning, broadcast on 8 November.
Both programmes raise issues warranting investigation in relation to:
1) the application of generally accepted standards by ITV and the BBC; and,
2) the application of standards to prevent unfair treatment to an individual, and unwarranted infringements of privacy.
Ofcom has general duties under section 3 of the Communications Act 2003 (“the 2003 Act”) to (among other things) secure the application, in the case of all television and radio services, of:
1) standards that provide adequate protection to members of the public from the inclusion of offensive and harmful material in such services (Section 3(2)(e) of the 2003 Act); and
2) standards that provide adequate protection to members of the public and to all other persons from both (i) unfair treatment in programmes included in such services; and (ii) unwarranted infringements of privacy resulting from activities carried on for the purposes of such services (Section 3(2)(f) of the 2003 Act).
Therefore, Ofcom has begun investigations into whether the BBC and ITV maintained appropriate standards and ensured that these programmes complied with Rules 2.1, 7.1 and 8.1 (and the relevant “Practices to be followed”) of the Code.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 15 Nov 12 at 14:21
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There's a load of carp in the Telegraph letters page about the present acting DG's dress sense, centred on his failure to wear a tie with his suit.
Ties are annoying, unhygienic and above all, optional. Anyone who thinks a man not wearing a tie isn't serious is an utter prat.
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Possibly they took his tie from him to prevent any "accidents"
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>> Possibly they took his tie from him to prevent any "accidents"
Along with his belt and shoelaces you mean? No, he wore one next time he was photographed. But that rather youthful whistle looked better without it I thought.
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>> There's a load of carp in the Telegraph letters page about the present acting DG's
>> dress sense, centred on his failure to wear a tie with his suit.
>
I'm glad I am not a Typical DT reader. Colonel Blimp would be proud of many of them.
I've worn a tie approx 7 times in the past 13 years: deaths or weddings.
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About 5 more than me madf ! I'm going to get some socks tattooed on soon. Never have to find another pair then !
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>> About 5 more than me madf ! I'm going to get some socks tattooed on
>> soon. Never have to find another pair then !
>>
Hump
Be careful you don't get put in the washing machine then.. or be hung out to dry....:-)
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And about 7 times more-than yours truly :}
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>> There's a load of carp in the Telegraph letters page about the present acting DG's
>> dress sense, centred on his failure to wear a tie with his suit.
>>
No doubt written by suit wearing clones.
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>> There's a load of carp in the Telegraph letters page about the present acting DG's
>> dress sense, centred on his failure to wear a tie with his suit.
>>
>> Ties are annoying, unhygienic and above all, optional. Anyone who thinks a man not wearing
>> a tie isn't serious is an utter prat.
Somewhat supports the theory that you become more right wing the older you get . AC reading the Telegraph...whatever next?
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Obese LibDem Rochdale MP Cyril Smith, who enjoyed posing with his mouth about to close on a large pie, apparently gave young boys 'medicals' and stroked their privates. The thick file of complaints was shelved by MI5 and the DPP on the ground that it wasn't in the public interest to have this stuff aired.
I wonder what value that repellent character had to the powers that be (or that then were). The mind boggles a bit.
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I was at an impressionable age when he was at the height of his popularity - He put me off being a Liberal for life. I was sort of half keen on their policies - maybe it was a good thing.
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Well to be fair AC, he probably couldn't reach his own.
:-)
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Savile Row Volume 7. - Manatee
