No, not a celestial appearance, but serious speculation that the electrical retailer is close to administration.
Martin Lewis of Money Saving Expert is strongly suggesting that holders of gift cards etc. get themselves down to their nearest store and spend them PDQ.
I would add - preferably for items one can take away on the spot.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Thu 1 Nov 12 at 09:10
|
I may have to accept partial responsibility for this as I spent several hours on Monday negotiating a huge discount on a coffee machine, and then paid using a work scheme that got another 10% off.
Feeling somewhat guilty now. Might pop down and offer the manager another tenner! ;-)
Shame really, I always quite liked Comet compared to the vile, cheating, customer-hating monstrosity that is DSG.
|
In the words of the prophet, "we ain't seen nuthin' yet"
In a land which for whatever reasons has allowed it's manufacturing base to systematically collapse all we really have left as a domestic economic driver is retail.
Unfortunately that sector is now under siege and unless consumer spending improves soon that too will implode in very short order. High street retail businesses are incredibly capital intensive, property, people, stock etc. When cashflow falters they bleed arterially.
Everyone likes a bargain but the reality is that there is almost no room left now in supply chains for price movement and businesses are failing on a daily basis. Some will argue that this is also influenced by a shift to online retailing which is certainly true but even those once almost infallible businesses are finding things increasingly tough.
The irony is that with low interest rates, those who still have a personal income stream are not remarkably worse off and in some cases are financially better placed to spend than they were during the boom times but the message of prudence has had an almost pendulum effect on the retail sector.
For the most part, the deadwood businesses have already gone, the effect of reduced spending is now affecting well run retailers too.
A balance needs to be found and soon. We need to engender a feeling in our society that controlled spending within means is fine, a sense in our supply chains that the days of the quick buck are over and that transparent and fair pricing strategys are the long term objective.
We simply have to stop trying to shaft each other wherever we appear on the financial food chain.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Thu 1 Nov 12 at 11:46
|
>> For the most part, the deadwood businesses have already gone, the effect of reduced spending
>> is now affecting well run retailers too.
Comet has always been a dead wood business, well run it hasnt been since the days before it was part of the B&Q group. It wasnt making a profit before the crash, and being sold multiple times in the last decade has done for it.
Electrical retailers are always folding, I could fill a book with the dead names. Even the internet ones.
|
>> Comet has always been a dead wood business, well run it hasnt been since the days before
>> it was part of the B&Q group.
I thought it was once owned by the people who also own Homebase. It used to be Kingfisher but they demerged it to become part of Kingfisher Electricals SA (Kesa). And Homebase were sold to GUS (owners of Argos). And Comet was given away for £2 last year.
Could be wrong but don't think this was linked to B&Q.
|
|
It was part of B&Q and Woolworth . . At one time I used to get (through my mother) staff discount in B&Q, Comet and Woolies.
|
>> And Comet was given away for £2 last year.
>>
>>
£2 bought £50 million cash plus all the assets and liabilities, excepting the pension fund liabilities.
|
>> In the words of the prophet, "we ain't seen nuthin' yet". We simply have to stop trying to shaft each other wherever we appear on the financial food chain.
That Mr. Hump was, in my humble opinion, a very pertinent point. Without wishing to digress too far. There are two things that mess everything up. GREED and Religion. I know property Landlords that keep hiking rents. As a Landlord I take a different view and do my utmost to ensure contented tenants. A bird in the hand etc. Trying to extract more from a smaller audience has always ended in grief.
I'll never be rich, but then again I'll never starve.
Best regards,
Prudence.
|
Yes i used to like Comet too, its the expensive guarantees that they lose out on sales over and we never cough up for them, so nearly always end up buying elsewhere.
Can't be bothered with visiting cloned sales palaces any more, boring and then hell traffic/parking, most of our electrical purchases are heavily researched and bought via online or phone, with the odd trip to Richer Sounds for one of their offers and to take advantage of the refundable and fairly priced extended warranties.
edit, in depth analysis by Hump there, but i thought the recession was officially over or did i mishear the state broadcaster..:-)
further edit...the VAT standing at 20% rip off has us thinking twice or more about purchases, and has resulted in buying better quality with a view to highly extended life in order to not be paying it again when the usual tat fails in short order.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Thu 1 Nov 12 at 11:55
|
|
The situation hasn't been helped y that twunk Martin Lewis advising people to look at products in Comet etc and then order the cheaper version online.
|
>>did i mishear the state broadcaster..:-)
All I hear is latterday Neros fiddling while "Rome" burns.
|
|
Comet have always struggled since they abandoned the original concept of stacks of boxes in a warehouse on an industrial estate - the "shop window" being a flyer listing that week's prices. There's no margin to pay for prime high street, mall and commercial centre premises. Amazon have just updated that original concept for the IT age.
|
Many of the people reading you comment will not know of the original Comet.
Comet warehouse was dingy old premises, off some back street.
No showroom, just a till at the desk and a warehouse door round the back.
Advertising was 200 items, like small adds, filling a page of the national dailies.
Pile it high and sell it cheaper than the Corner electrical shop or High St that charged the RRP.
For advert in national dailies 1968- 1980 = Internet & Amazon today
|
>>>Many of the people reading you comment will not know of the original Comet.
Even when they went shop based in Peterborough (late 70s?) they still had loads of boxes piled high. They sold off end of line bargains... some real quality hi-fi brands back in those days too.
|
We had some awful experiences at Comet. We had a gas cooker fitted by them in May. The blokes turn up, quite rude and arrogant. Make a comment how the kitchen needs a refit, then they start fitting it.
They start drilling into the wall to fit the chain and set the cooker up. Then there is a problem, they cannot relight the boiler. They then told us it is leaking carbon monoxide should be condemned. What happened next beggars believe. My mother points out we have a detector near it which has never gone off. Looking embarrassed without my parents looking he moves the detector next to the cooker, he then lights the hob, but the detector doesn't go off.
Anyway he refuses to touch the boiler and leaves us with no heating or hot water.
We get our trusted gasman in to look at the boiler. He comes out two hours later says it just the thermocouple, he goes of to get the part, fits it and also adjusts the mixture which he says is far too rich (we had noticed the pilot light looks too high). My parents ask him if the boiler is too old (1984) and he says they are damn good boilers and should last a long time yet. Total bill was £70.00.
While there is no doubt the boiler was faulty the attitude of the fitters was like you need a new boiler and why are you getting us out to fit a gas cooker when your boiler is antique.
After they had gone, my dad then had to get his carpet cleaner out and clean all the carpets, they had spread so much mud through!. When I inspected the job I discovered a load of brick dust on the floor behind the cooker, and that they hadn't even chained it to the wall as they realised the plaster was soft and could not be bothered to use raw plugs. Instead they chained it a free standing worktop!.
Needless to say we never spent a penny in comet since!
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 1 Nov 12 at 12:16
|
An interesting discussion point is the issue of retail price fixing. It used to be fairly commonplace even in this country up to and until about 20 years ago. It is of course illegal under European law now. In simple terms, there was a RRP ( recommended retail price ) which most retailers in a given territory or usually country ( when they had their own currencies ) would stick to.
So if you saw, for example, a pair of shoes in a shop in Inverness, you could be fairly certain that the same model would be at the same price on Oxford St. in London. Retailers still discounted of course but generally only at specific "sale" periods. There were of course disadvantages to this arrangement but there was conversely some transparency as a result so the need or desire to "shop around" was much less relevant. If you saw an item locally you wanted and which suited your needs you knew it wouldn't be available elsewhere significantly cheaper so you just bought it locally and supported your local economy.
What happens now is that the retailers have to apply a much higher initial margin because they know that at least half of their sales will be achieved only by applying a "discount". In order to protect their overall margin they need to in effect overprice to start with to be able to claim that they are discounting later. Therefore, the waters become muddied and the consumer finds it very difficult to understand what the real fair price should actually be.
As I mentioned previously, European law now forbids price fixing so a retailer can charge whatever they want to for an item but in Germany in particular there is still a commercial culture of sticking to what have had to now become known as "SRPs" ( suggested retail prices )
Strangely enough their retail sector seems to be holding up quite well...
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Thu 1 Nov 12 at 12:52
|
The purpose of a store like Comet is to sell things to people who want their products.
The moment people stop wanting those products then their objective has been achieved, and the store serves no further purpose.
|
Our invoice records - yes we keep all our receipts from 30 years back to now (sad) - show we stopped buying anything from Comet in 2002 when we bought a showroom Miele tumble dryer for half list price.. (still going strong).
We adopted a "buy quality and keep" policy about 40 years ago when we married!:-)
|
>>
>> We adopted a "buy quality and keep" policy about 40 years ago when we married!:-)
>>
I did as well, the 1st Mrs FB is still the same one - 41 years and still working well. However the volume control is still wonky!
|
>>. It is of course illegal under European law now. In simple terms, there was a RRP ( >>recommended retail price ) which most retailers in a given territory or usually country ( when >>they had their own currencies ) would stick to.
I-pads seem to go against the law as they are all priced the same - Comet, John Lewis, Currys..................how does this happen when there is supposed to be a free market in the UK where the seller fixed his own price?
|
|
Sharp are about to go belly up as well.
|
>>>Sharp are about to go belly up as well.
Could never really work Sharp out as a brand... never top quality but never super cheap either. For me it always fell down the crack in the middle.
|
>> Sharp are about to go belly up as well.
Apple are hoping they wont, Sharp are the sole suppliers of phone and pad screens to them since the little spat with Samsung
|
>> Apple are hoping they wont, Sharp are the sole suppliers of phone and pad screens
>> to them since the little spat with Samsung
iPad mini has Samsung screen apparently: tinyurl.com/c97d9m5 (DM)
|
>> Sharp are about to go belly up as well.
Bad news for Wales. IIRC they manufacture microwaves Wrexham way.
|
|
Think they gave up on making Microwaves in the UK years ago, the Welsh plant makes solar panels.
|
>> I-pads seem to go against the law as they are all priced the same - Comet, John Lewis, Currys.
>>................how does this happen when there is supposed to be a free market in the UK
>> where the seller fixed his own price?
>>
Strange that !!!
Just a few years ago i saw a leading brand up market watch in a Capetown shop that looked cheaper than in the UK.
I checked re UK prices and it was the same
On return to the UK I phoned many outlets and yes all quoted the same price
Strange that!!
|
"I-pads seem to go against the law as they are all priced the same - Comet, John Lewis, Currys..................how does this happen when there is supposed to be a free market in the UK where the seller fixed his own price?"
Quite simple. Price cutting is made possible by the manufacturers themselves offering special deals to largd retailers to promote its products . Apple uses a limited range of retailers and does not discount.
Of course if Apple products were to become less desirable the situation might change
|
>>how does this happen when there is supposed to be a free market in the UK where the seller fixed his own price?"
Provided they fix their own price, there is no reason for it to be a different price. The law does not say that everybody must charge a different price, just that each retailer must set their own price without collusion. Copying is fine.
As an aside, I believe the restriction on the use of RRP on electrical goods was lifted a year or two ago.
|
It still happens ( I gather ). Strong brands, or to be clearer, brands which are in high demand can and do require their stockists to stick to SRPs. They can't enforce that in any legal or written way but they can, for example, find that they have "oh dear", "misplaced" or "lost" any replenishment stock orders for any retailer who does not comply with their wishes on the matter...Allegedly.
:-)
|
>> It still happens ( I gather ). Strong brands, or to be clearer, brands which
>> are in high demand can and do require their stockists to stick to SRPs. They
>> can't enforce that in any legal or written way but they can, for example, find
>> that they have "oh dear", "misplaced" or "lost" any replenishment stock orders for any retailer
>> who does not comply with their wishes on the matter...Allegedly.
>>
>> :-)
You might also find that the margins on such strong brands are low when compared with others, but that the manufacturer will provide discretionary funding to the retailer for merchandising, advertising and promotions. If the retailer isn't doing the kind of promotions that the supplier approves of, for example if they are price cutting, then such funding may not be forthcoming. Allegedly.
Zero is correct to say Comet has always struggled in the Kingfisher and Kesa ownerships. Typically an occasional good year followed by a few bad ones.
Under Opcapita's ownership, Comet has tried to go back to its "value" roots. Most people in the industry believe it is impossible to make money solely out of selling electrical appliances out of bricks and mortar shops. If you can't sell added value services and successfully mix it with Internet sales then there is no way forward. Comet certainly had the multi channel aspirations but ran out of road. Interestingly it's pretty difficult to be a successful Internet only electrical retailer as well. It's a tough market where the merchandise brands are the heroes, not the retailers', and customers don't mind who supplies them if they get the brand they want at the right price
Opcapita will still make money out of buying Comet. The staff, and landlords, will be the main losers.
|
>> You might also find that the margins on such strong brands are low when compared
>> with others, but that the manufacturer will provide discretionary funding to the retailer for merchandising,
>> advertising and promotions. If the retailer isn't doing the kind of promotions that the supplier
>> approves of, for example if they are price cutting, then such funding may not be
>> forthcoming. Allegedly.
based on the insider information from one of the mobile phone networks, Apple almost certainly acted illegally in their dealings and demands with the UK sales channel.
|
You cannot expect the consumer not to search out a bargain. If Comet cannot compete against Amazon and other internet retailers, it deserves to go out of business.
Big stores (including the Tesco Home stores) are in trouble where they have to pay a rent with annual fixed upward "reviews" negotiated years ago.
By going in to administration, the company will rise again if the new "owners" are found who can negotiate new lower realistic rents, rates, wages, etc.
Nowadays the goods are made in low cost locations, the goods cost very little to make, but then they get hereand that is when the costs mount up.
The overheads of in a country living beyond its means (a country mired in deep debt but behaving as if it still a surplus economic power); where the rent, rates, wages, energy, H&S costs, bureaucratic red tape costs are astronomic; these overheads are based on the illusion of being a rich nation. Until we compete with the cheap manufacturing locations in reducing our overheads (i.e. drag ourselves down to their levels of pay, rents, and other overheads) we will continue to suffer a decline.
Equilibrium will be reached at some point (either due to costs going up elsewhere but going down here, or like Greece we are forced to downsize to our true economic position).
It is just a question of waiting, there is much worse to come, no idea how many years it will take and how much pain it inflict on us in the meantime.
|
I'm taking every opportunity to watch re-runs of Ray Mears survival in the wild type programmes. Gonna come in handy some of that stuff shortly...
:-)
|
Some interesting and pertinent comments here. tinyurl.com/c7un87m
|
Although not related to the state of Comet and other shops, but the ruling on compensation for delayed flights is similar. It's the compensation culture.
Okay, you're not happy if your flight is delayed but now you'll be allowed to claim compensation if it's over 3 hours, up to a max. And this means airlines will have to cover these costs in their prices going forward - so we all lose in a way. But my concern is the costs associated with claims going back to 2009 when the airlines would not pay out because they were waiting on this ruling. So how damaging is this going to be for some airlines for the payouts they need to make for the last 3 years? Could this bring down say Thomas Cook for example?
People waiting to make claims will seem happy with this ruling on compensation. Going forward I'm not so sure because we might end up with fewer companies to use for flights.
|
"...
John Clare, the former chief executive of rival electrical retailer Dixons, has been trying to revive Comet's fortunes since he was brought in by OpCapita in February. OpCapita acquired Comet for the token sum of £2 almost a year ago from Kesa Electricals, which owns the Darty chain in France.
Kesa also paid OpCapita £50m and retained liability for Comet's pension plan, which had a deficit of £45.9m at the end of April.
David Newlands, the chairman of Kesa, said at the time of the sale that "the truth of the matter is we had to pay £50m to get the business away."
Signs that Mr Clare has stabilised a sharp drop in sales is thought to have prompted the approaches that OpCapita received. The veteran retailer said in July that Comet was "climbing out of the hole".
OpCapita has reduced staff numbers from about 8,000 in a bid to cuts costs.
..."
|
Marks & Spencer ditched electricals a few weeks back!
Trouble is they should never have gone into them........Just because John Lewis can make money does not mean everyone can.
At least M&S could go back to their plain knitting...........Comet does not have that luxury.
|
>As I mentioned previously, European law now forbids price fixing so a retailer can charge >whatever they want to for an item but in Germany in particular there is still a commercial >culture of sticking to what have had to now become known as "SRPs" ( suggested retail prices )
>Strangely enough their retail sector seems to be holding up quite well...
Oh I see, the answer is to charge us too much.
|
|
Don't think I said that and frankly I don't believe you do either. However, for the sake of clarity, they, the Germans ,usually set their prices based on a much lower multiplier in the first place, generally a double up on cost. Conversely, most British retailers start with a 2.5 to 3 times multiplier so that they have a cushion to apply an apparent discount. The former system is much more transparent.
|
>> Don't think I said that and frankly I don't believe you do either. However, for
>> the sake of clarity, they, the Germans ,usually set their prices based on a much
>> lower multiplier in the first place, generally a double up on cost. Conversely, most British
>> retailers start with a 2.5 to 3 times multiplier so that they have a cushion
>> to apply an apparent discount. The former system is much more transparent.
The german "who" set their multipliers, manufactures or retailers? You suggested that that we should stick to MRP or SRP. That is in effect a cartel, and that is over charging. In a market where spending is down you are trying to suggest that price fixing is the way to go.
Sorry old chum, you are trying to fleece your customer. Well I suppose someone has to pay for your Merc after all, it might as well be the consumer.
Sales of electrical goods are down, putting the price up is not going to improve that now is it. The problem has been that sales of such goods has been inflated in the past because of a glut of money caused by people re-mortgaging, cheap loans, and a willingness to build up credit card debt. Bank lending and consumer fear have canned it. The weaker of the retailers will fall, and Comet has always been a basket case, re-financed many times.
And yes the face of retail is changing. The customer is changing it. Live with it or fail.
|
|
I'm not suggesting it. I was merely raising it as a discussion point on how different retail cultures operate. What can't be argued is that if FAIR prices are set in the first place then service levels will increase as a result because that's then the only platform on which retailers can compete. Do you really have to make a fight out of everything? Well, I won't fight you. Sorry if that disappoints. Go find someone else to irritate with your deliberate misinterpretatrions.
|
>> I'm not suggesting it. I was merely raising it as a discussion point on how
>> different retail cultures operate. What can't be argued is that if FAIR prices are set
>> in the first place then service levels will increase as a result because that's then
>> the only platform on which retailers can compete.
You are suggesting price fixing. Where is my option to forgoe service levels for cheaper pricing?
|
>> and could not be bothered to use raw plugs.
Seeing as how it was a cooker, perhaps they should have used cooked plugs.
;-)
|
The internet has changed everything. Not only pricing, but access to information and recommendations. What can a sales assistant in a shop tell you about a product that you can't find out yourself with 5 minutes in front of Google drinking a cup of coffee?
Unless you want to directly compare products in the same environment, there is no value add in using a shop any more.
I can't remember the last time I bought anything of more than about £20 in value from a high street shop of any description.
|
What about clothes Roger? Unless you always buy the same clobber the internet doesn't really work all that well for clothes.
(Unless you never spend more than £20 on clothes of course)
|
>> What about clothes Roger?
>>
Roger?
|
Roger?
Perhaps I do need specs for reading!
|
Unless you always buy the same clobber the internet doesn't really work all that well for clothes.
Perhaps if you belong to the central 80 percent of the bell curve, but I'd say the exact opposite. High Street trousers go up to a 'long' 33" leg and shirts to a 35" sleeve, neither of which will cover my bony bits. Ask the assistant in Clarks or Jones for a 12, let alone a 13; eyes are rolled, teeth sucked and I wonder why I bothered.
On the Web, once I've found a retailer I like and calibrated its sizing scheme, I can order variations and be confident they'll fit. Boden is widely mocked but its 17" shirts are big enough and long enough for me; likewise Lands End may not be the height of style but the basic stuff fits and lasts; and now I know my size in Loake's Capital and 026 lasts, I can order from Pediwear of Halifax and know they'll fit. (Crockett and Jones will have to wait but I'll get there one day, Humph.) None of this can I do on any High Street.
|
|
Where do you live Will? If you don't feel like being so open on't web mail me through the mods. Might be able to give you a steer re shoes.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Thu 1 Nov 12 at 19:07
|
My employer usually gives us some shopping vouchers for Christmas, though it is looking unlikely this year. One of the few shops that accepted them was Comet, which I have always preferred to Curry's.
Assuming Comet do go, the only useful shop that accepts them is HMV, and they arn't exactly glowing with health either.
|
the only useful shop that accepts them is HMV, and they arn't exactly glowing with health either.
Not surprising I always found them the most expensive place on the high street, whenever I used to go in there.
|
|
HMV is trying to operate in a retail space that no longer really exists. Their market is almost 100% internet shopping territory.
|
|
Thanks Humph - will do, as soon as I can work out how.
|
Indeed DP and no one could blame you, but because that is increasingly the trend, we will soon not have any High Street shops. Is that what we want? We've successfully knackered manufacturing jobs and we're well down the road to doing the same to retail ones. Where are all the "normal" people going to work, MacDonalds? Ah, wait a minute, they'll go too because the people who would have had their lunch there won't have any money because there's no jobs and...
We must be careful what we wish for. There are major side effects. Some will say that's just progress and economic evolution in action and maybe they're right.
Not sure it sits well with me though nonetheless.
|
>> Not sure it sits well with me though nonetheless.
>>
How would you regulate the UK you wish for, and how would you raise the money needed to fund that economic utopia?
Communist countries and others (like India) tried to keep their markets under control and closed from overseas competition. The consequences suffered by the people of those countries are well documented.
|
I don't want or wish for regulation. I do though, albeit in vain I grant, wish that common sense would prevail. Things do not need to be inevitable if there is a general will to resist them.
But there isn't, so what will be will be.
|
Couple of weeks ago my Suzuki Jimney owning friend, bought a new built-under single oven, and asked if I could connect it up for her. Thinking (as it was a "new kitchen" installed 5yrs ago by one of the "Sheds") that it would simply involve opening the cooker-box disconnecting the existing oven wire and reconnecting the new cable I agreed.
Upon opening the box, I discovered that the White round cable from the old oven didn`t appear to go there! - so following it from the oven end, I found it joined to an old heavy grey cable (that had obviously been cut-off the previous free-standing cooker) and had ben joined by twisting the wires together and binding with electrical tape!. Worse than that, there were two 13amp double power sockets linked together (further down the kitchen) that had also been spurred-off the 30amp cooker circuit. As the last person to "Touch" the "set-up" I refused to re-connect the power to it, and insisted she called a qualified Sparky. She was none too pleased to be charged £120, but at least her house was safer from being burnt down, and my hands were clean! - Kitchen -fitters are not all Professionals!
|
|
Some fitters are appalling Sir.
Last edited by: Martin Devon on Thu 1 Nov 12 at 21:42
|
I bought a new camera from a photographic shoppe in Cornwall recently, solely due to the fact that they took my 'old' Lumix G2 in part-exchange.
I also sourced a Plasma telly locally, solely due to the fact that they gave me a Blue-ray player for my 'old' LCD telly'.
Deals can still be done.
|
We got a touch over £300 off a three piece suite from SCS, by NOT taking their 4 year "free" credit.
Gplan, which we chose, are offering, as standard to their retailers, 25% off RRP.
SCS rounded that up to 40% off RRP + free delivery.
£1700 all-in, delivered.
To cap it all, we have just flogged our old Ercol suite (£1500 to re-cover it) for £300, (around £260 after selling expenses) on eBay, so the net cost to us for a brand new, reasonable brand name, suite is less than Plumbs wanted to re-cover the old one. (To be fair, a new set of covers for our Ercol would be VERY difficult to make as they are incredibly complex and made of a pretty tough fabric. Even Ercol themselves won't quote for that particular model.)
We are now using garden relaxer chairs until our new suite arrives!
Last edited by: Roger on Thu 1 Nov 12 at 16:12
|
|
OK, who gave my last comment a grumpy face? Was it for the use of the word “twunk" or my suggestion that if you play with a toy at someone's shop you do them the privilege of buying it there?
|
|
If you mean the one with the libellous comments re "DSG" think you got at least two. One was from me. I didn't have time to explain why at the time.
|
|
'Libellous' is a bit strong, Manatee. Hyperbolic, perhaps, but you (well, I at least) can hardly say DSG is a rewarding company to do business with.
|
|
I know DSG is not a rewarding company to work for (son started from School there - but hey it was a start) and they are certainly an unrewarding place to shop at. Although I did recently, it was certainly painless tho to be honest, and it came up with the goods I wanted at the price I wanted to pay.
|
>> 'Libellous' is a bit strong, Manatee. Hyperbolic, perhaps, but you (well, I at least) can
>> hardly say DSG is a rewarding company to do business with.
>>
Maybe. But perhaps not all of the decent majority of the 38,000 people who work there would agree they are customer hating cheats; nor as far as I know, are customer hating and cheating company policy.
If there's a hyperbole defence to libel, I don't imagine it works automatically;-)
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 1 Nov 12 at 22:08
|
The reason I referred to them as cheats - and by and large I think it's true - is their trick of buying stripped down OEM products from manufacturers and marketing them as the real deal.
They did this to me with an LG TV a couple of years ago. LG's website and online reviews suggested the TV was top spec. The DSG website was a cut and paste but in fact the TV was a bare bones model with none of the extra features promised. Then, to cap it all, they'd made out it was a huge discount by selling at the true price of the proper TV for 28 days, then slashing it in half for a “sale".
Oh, and of course I only discovered this after buying it, driving it ten miles home, and then spending a fruitless 20 minutes trying to find somewhere to insert a network cable.
If that doesn't require careful customer hating forethought I don't know what does.
Comet is in a different league and it's a damned shame to see them go under.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Fri 2 Nov 12 at 10:08
|
|
They also are very "clever" in having the major PC manufacturers make very, very, very, slightly different models for DSG, so it is nigh on impossible to compare products exactly.
|
>> They also are very "clever" in having the major PC manufacturers make very, very, very,
>> slightly different models for DSG, so it is nigh on impossible to compare products exactly.
Not just PC's but white goods too.
|
>> They also are very "clever" in having the major PC manufacturers make very, very, very,
>> slightly different models for DSG, so it is nigh on impossible to compare products exactly.
That used to be the case, a number of years ago when they were selling the likes of Packard Hell Pcs. it is no longer, DSG dont have the volumes or clout for that kind thing any more.
|
>> The reason I referred to them as cheats - and by and large I think
>> it's true - is their trick of buying stripped down OEM products from manufacturers and
>> marketing them as the real deal.
>>
>> They did this to me with an LG TV a couple of years ago. LG's
>> website and online reviews suggested the TV was top spec. The DSG website was a
>> cut and paste but in fact the TV was a bare bones model with none
>> of the extra features promised. Then, to cap it all, they'd made out it was
>> a huge discount by selling at the true price of the proper TV for 28
>> days, then slashing it in half for a “sale".
I'd go for cock up over conspiracy there but outcome for customer is same.
|
>> I'd go for cock up over conspiracy there but outcome for customer is same.
Spot on.
DSG's product data, and therefore price ticket, advertising and website descriptions, leave much to be desired in my observations.
"Exclusive" models though is common practice, not unique to one company. Comet did it too. They will invariably have a different model code so while there is scope for confusion I am slightly (only slightly) surprised at FF's experience.
At its best, an exclusive product means that the retailer contracts to buy a fixed volume, which makes manufacturing far less risky and therefore cheaper; there will be an added, rather than subtracted feature or two; a lower selling price; and a higher margin for the retailer. Everybody wins.
You can have a good argument about whether exclusives benefit the customer in a commoditised sector. Take food, where you have 4 or 5 big retailers selling a lot of the same stuff. Perfect competition, right? Well, not really - why do they still have big margins? The answer is that they price match rather than undercut each other - they monitor each other's prices so closely and match so quickly that there is nothing to be gained by a price cut - everybody moves, and everybody makes less money.
Then there are the "special offers", which is how they can all claim to be the cheapest and offer vouchers if they are more expensive than another chain - it's unlikely any of them will be on a weekly shop, because the customer will have gone for the manufacturer-funded special offers that are unique to that chain that week.
The supermarkets, despite intense competition, have done a far better job of making money out of us than the likes of DSG and Comet, who could only dream of 5-6% net profit before tax - or indeed any profit at all for the last few years.
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 2 Nov 12 at 11:19
|
Actually FF got me thinking about my own run ins with DSG:
They supplied me with a duff laptop for Mrs B. Refused the offer of Norton or of MS Office bundle but the guy practically forced a 'free' netbook security pack on me. I genuinely did not want to offend a salesman who'd given us alot of time.
Spent several hours at home setting up the thing, transferring data and burning the restore DVDs before it became apparent that laptop was a reluctant starter.
Took it back but was refused refund until I returned the 'free' software. Even then after a second round trip the guy wasted my time while he tried to find out if I'd activated the programme.
And then there's Knowitall or whatever their repair arm is called. Phone for a dishwasher repair and after foing through multiple keypad optins was bounced to Bosch's repair guys who said they'd been sacked by Currys six months earlier!! Guy sent was clueless but it took another six weeks to extract the voucher for the replacement as promised by the policy.
Going back further the PC world scanner came with a fault where, from time to time it jammed, toothed belt running over the gog on the lamp.
Laddy behind the counter looked me straight in the eye and said "there's no such thing as an intermittent fault sir".
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 2 Nov 12 at 10:46
|
DSG's refund, repair or replace working policy is positively criminal. They will do everything, anything, even the illegal, to get out of their obligations.
Tho it has to be said, they have no obligation to repair any item in anything other than the state you bought it in. IE reloading your data or programes on a PC or laptop is NOT an obligation.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 2 Nov 12 at 11:24
|
>> DSG's refund, repair or replace working policy is positively criminal. They will do everything, anything,
>> even the illegal, to get out of their obligations.
When our (in warranty) Panny TV stopped picking up any signals, getting Knowhow to pick it up, repair it and send it back was pretty painless.
|
>> DSG's refund, repair or replace working policy is positively criminal. They will do everything, anything,
>> even the illegal, to get out of their obligations.
>>
>> Tho it has to be said, they have no obligation to repair any item in
>> anything other than the state you bought it in. IE reloading your data or programes
>> on a PC or laptop is NOT an obligation.
Their policy is here -
www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/Returns-Cancellations-1043-theme.html#instore_faulty
though I appreciate you speak of practice rather than theory. Your biggest problem is likely to be trying to invoke SOGA which the store staff seem conditioned to dismiss out of hand. The consumer websites tend to oversimplify SOGA and tell people to go and demand a free repair or refund if their washer breaks down after three years of daily use. Good luck with that one ;-)
DSG has significantly improved its customer service, and certainly its attitude to it, over the last three years. But its reputation earned over many more years follows it, and it still has a long way to go before I'd give an unqualified recommendation.
|
>> DSG has significantly improved its customer service, and certainly its attitude to it, over the
>> last three years. But its reputation earned over many more years follows it, and it
>> still has a long way to go before I'd give an unqualified recommendation.
>>
Sorry, but my experience a few months back over a just out of warranty (mid range, not cheapo) dishwasher was that they couldnt give a stuff. Upon getting nowhere with being polite I eased SOGA into the conversation, but still refused to budge and advised me that they would send someone out to have a look for something like a hundred quid.
First thing I had bought from DSG in years due to previous bad experiences, and will be the last for a good few more.
Unfortunately I suspect that Comets demise will be good news for DSG and may save them from the brink.
I will be going back to buy in JL for future requirements
|
>>
>> >> DSG has significantly improved its customer service, and certainly its attitude to it, over
>> the
>> >> last three years. But its reputation earned over many more years follows it, and
>> it
>> >> still has a long way to go before I'd give an unqualified recommendation.
>> >>
>>
>> Sorry, but my experience a few months back over a just out of warranty (mid
>> range, not cheapo) dishwasher was that they couldnt give a stuff. Upon getting nowhere with
>> being polite I eased SOGA into the conversation, but still refused to budge and advised
>> me that they would send someone out to have a look for something like a
>> hundred quid.
No need to apologise, I only said it had improved ;-)
Your experience is what I would have expected. It was out of its guarantee period. You could have taken out a service agreement to cover it but presumably didn't - if they rolled over on out-of-guarantee failures then they'd never sell any cover!
The problem with SOGA is that from 6 months after purchase, the burden is on you to show that there was a defect present at the time of purchase, which usually amounts to proving that the failure wasn't caused by fair wear and tear (e.g. if you had run it three times a day) or damage caused by you through misuse. It's unsatisfactory and unrealistic lin my opinion but that's how it is.
Rightly or wrongly, I suspect you'd have got much the same result in most places, including at Comet.
JL would probably have given you a 2 year guarantee in the first place though. Good place to buy, and where I look first for white goods.
Incidentally, our Miele d/w (still going at 12 years) "failed" at about 2 years. We got the Miele man out, at a cost of about £100 IIRC, and he removed a small piece of aluminium foil that we had overlooked in the pump - it has worked since :-)
|
I don't know but while we have bricks and mortar shops it makes sense to use them as a showroom.
It's the sort of thing that's done for Comet and is doing for Jessops.
If the punters subsequently decide it doesn't suit to buy 'blind' on line then the market will respond.
|
I worked for DSG for about 6 months. It was all about the hard sell, e.g over priced copies of Norton and laptop bags. If a laptop came in crashing, all we would do is simply re-install it from the recovery discs. No attempt to diagnose the real problem or backup customers data.
|
i always shop at independants, bought a gas hob a bosch five burner 90 cm wide, haggled it down to £425, saw the same hob on sale on comets for £620, saved over £190.
Then bought a blomberg single electric oven, they were selling it for £380 got that down to £350.
Friendly and local, and delivery was free, makes a mockery to what comet would have charged if i didnt shop around on the internet.
Now looking for a siemens washer and dryer
sometimes the little guys give you better customer service
|
Agree with Sajid...a little local terraced shop gives us excellent sales and service of white goods. Nothing too much trouble for them. Have got together a group of similar firms......
Carpets/flooring, decorator, spannerman, fence man, etc.
Sometimes a bit more expensive but you save when you need them to sort something afterwards.
Ted
|
I have found a few of the Euronics group of white goods suppliers very good to deal with. Our local one will deliver at a time to suit you, same day if needed. They are not the very cheapest but no more expensive than Comet/Currys etc. - I would much prefer to keep using the little local shop.
John Lewis of course will price match, but only deliver here one day a week, which isn't always convenient.
I have used an internet firm which will deliver next day (or any day you select) if you order before 9pm. That's the theory - mine was delayed by another day which was not convenient, since I didn't find out till I rang up to query non-delivery.
|
>> OK, who gave my last comment a grumpy face? Was it for the use of
>> the word “twunk" ...............
If it wasn't, then it jolly well should have been. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=twunk
|
>> >> OK, who gave my last comment a grumpy face? Was it for the use
>> of
>> >> the word “twunk" ...............
>>
>> If it wasn't, then it jolly well should have been. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=twunk
>>
D'oh. Consider me enlightened (or not). Was trying to find an unfiltered equivalent to t***...
Though up until three months ago I was happily calling people plebs without paying much consideration to the true meaning of the word. Might just stick to the Queen's English from now on.
Apologies to any inadvertent offense caused!
Toodle pip. (I don't even dare to look that one up in the Urban Dictionary....)
|
>> D'oh. Consider me enlightened (or not). Was trying to find an unfiltered equivalent to t***...
Why can't you express yourself without having to swear, or to try and bypass the swearfilter with an alternate word?
Or do you just lack self control?
EDIT - that is a general comment, btw, which is not just directed at you
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 2 Nov 12 at 10:42
|
|
Wish I hadn't looked at the definition!
|
|
I'm beginning to think the word he actually meant was twonk.
|
>> I'm beginning to think the word he actually meant was twonk.
>>
That's the one.
|
>> I'm beginning to think the word he actually meant was twonk.
>>
Next time Fursty Ferret posts, check out the meaning of what he's said in here ............. www.bannedphrases.co.uk/definitions.php
|
We'll have to take it in shifts Monsieur Snail, I'll watch im from 6am - 11pm, and you can do the night shift.
:+)
|
>> OK, who gave my last comment a grumpy face? Was it for the use of
>> the word “twunk" ..........
I hereby award you my own grumpy face.
>-$
|
The failure of Comet was almost universally expected by informed observers from the day Kesa sold it, only the when was in question.
Two reasons - the structural unviability of Comet, and the fact that Opcapita's way of rescuing businesses means the investors make money whether the patient survives or not.
This article shines a light
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/9649664/Comet-another-OpCapita-kiss-of-death.html
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 2 Nov 12 at 08:45
|
|
First Comet store opened in the city I live a 15 minutes drive from.A shame about the job losses it is ongoing.
|
|
They are said to be in administration but all stores open and trading. Website is down though.
|
|
Same thing happened with Hein Gerike.
|
Brisk and mortar now no longer needed. period.
Buy Which instead...
|
Looks like they've only just been called in - give them a chance to tell the store managers!
I see on the BBC they are reporting that all stores are to stay open for the time being - wonder what weekend trade will be like?
|
Northampton store was closed for a period around noon today with a notice in window saying they were opening at 17:00.
In fact they were open by 13:00 but by then we'd bought The Lad's TV/DVD combo in Currys/PCW.
Comet stuff was all at normal prices but suggestion is that now admor is in place they'll start discounting to generate cash.
|
|
I guess if credit lines have been withdrawn then some of that stock has been paid for up front, so there will be a desire to turn it back into cash.
|
|
Put me in the middle of a Comet or Currys store and I would never be able to tell you which one I was in. Every town or retail park seems to have both which is one too many, something had to give.
|
>> Put me in the middle of a Comet or Currys store and I would never
>> be able to tell you which one I was in. Every town or retail park
>> seems to have both which is one too many, something had to give.
>>
Near me we used to have a comet in the middle of a retail park with a PC world at one end and curry's at the other. About 18 months ago curry's doubled the size of its store by taking the vacant unit next door and moving PC world in under the same roof. I don't like DSG, but I have to give it to them, its a massive impressive store. Comet shut their store about 12 months ago
|
>
>> Comet shut their store about 12 months ago
>>
Ours was refurbed but halved in size around this time last year. The other half is now a Pets @ Home.
|
Comet gift vouchers reinstated (if you've still got any, then get rid ASAP)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20228579
Comet staff offered Christmas jobs by Dixons
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20236899
|
According to the Guardian the BIG SALE is a day away or so. Currently 10% off most items but bigger cuts due.
When Kesa sold to Optcapita for £2 the Comet shops and warehouse had £180m stock....current levels £120m and nobody would supply them for the Xmas rush.
Comet were losing money every week and paying rent/salaries from running down the stock and not replacing it.
Little likelihood that it will sell as a whole, most will close and some might be cherry picked by Dixons/Staples and one or two other retailers looking for a location.
Looks really bleak for the 6,000 Comet employees.
|
|
50% off advert in this morning's Metro eg. 8GB / 750GB Acer down from £450 to £225 IIRC, although I suspect you'll have to be quick to get as good a deal as that.
|
Popped in to our local Comet round midday.
50% off - what a joke.
Most stuff is 10% to 20% off. i.e. a £2K Telly (big, big, big) around 200 quid off! A Canon all-in-one printer £109 instead of £120. Vacuum cleaners 10% to 15% off.
If they REALLY want to shift stock they MUST cut more.
I was looking for a cheap "upstairs" vacuum - at those prices - no way José !
|
|
Not when you've nowhere to take it back to.
|
|
Buy a Henry Roger British made last a while.
|
our 40 year old food prcoessor has today expired..
I would only buy a replacement at Comet if discount>50% - no back up in year 1...
|
For 50% off a genuine item I'd buy it from a market stall, never mind Comet.
You lot worry too much.
|
heres a side issue.... whats the oldest appliance you have in your house that still works?
my microwave oven is 25 years old and still works
|
>>whats the oldest appliance you have in your house that still works?
My wife, matter of fact she's at work as we speak.
:-)
|
The oldest electrical device is the Microwave, Tricity 1987, £275 in the sales.
It was a bargain as prices went 25 years ago!
|
|
I am sure you could get a better deal online compared to the current prices in comet.
|
Our 30 year old Panasonic Genius microwave blew up earlier this year.
Our AEG fridge/freezer is 17..
Our downstairs not used very often for the house extension Hoover is at least 40 years old being inherited from mil.
By contrast, no kitchen kettle survives more than two years in our house: a rule lasting 20 years plus..
|
|
Second fridge, now in garage, is a Zanussi bought in 1986/7. I think there's also a sixties Moulinex Blender/Grinder in a cupboard but not been used for several years.
|
We have a very poncy kettle, silver grey, black and chrome, only three years old and it does what it says on the tin....boil water. Fine so far.
But the racket it makes doing it's job is incredible...like having a Merlin engine revving up in the room. It obliterates the telly and radio and puts an end to conversation. I'll be glad when it snuffs it. But how do you check if a replacement is the same......I've never heard of anyone asking the salesman to boil a kettle up while you listen. Or, if it comes to that, stick a load of your washing in to see if the machine works OK.
Just pot luck, I suppose.
Ted
|
In the same vein
When did you last ask a china shop to pour a cup of tea from a teapot to show that it doesn't dribble all over the table ?
|
you lot are lucky.
you should have some kids around.
They don't look after anything electrical.
If anything lives beyond 2 years in my house its dam lucky
|
|
I have a 60w pearl lightbulb in the understairs closet that was in the house when we bought it 23 years ago! - and it still works!
|
>> I have a 60w pearl lightbulb in the understairs closet that was in the house
>> when we bought it 23 years ago! - and it still works!
>>
We have at least one fluorescent tune in the garage which has been in use over 30 years...
|
>> In the same vein
>> When did you last ask a china shop to pour a cup of tea from
>> a teapot to show that it doesn't dribble all over the table ?
Never but I use a teapot and proper leaf tea. Pot is oneof those where leaves are held captive by a filter in pot; no strainer needed.
|
OMG! We have found something on which we agree, Bromptonaut!
Proper tea, (Yorkshire Tea) brewed in a proper tea-pot (Picquotware in our case) and poured into the cup or mug through a tea- strainer!
Cue for thread drift!
Last edited by: Roger on Fri 30 Nov 12 at 16:12
|
|
.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Fri 30 Nov 12 at 16:40
|
Good man, Bromp. So do we, only with an ordinary pot and a strainer. I wonder if UKIP has a view on the correct method for making tea, and if so whether we should consider signing up.
My F-in-L is a devil for this; I've watched him demanding a dribble test before he buys. He thinks he's being charming but if I was on the receiving end I'd be scared.
|
I must forward an official request to UKIP HQ to establish this!
I can confirm that the UKIP Rotherham campaign office has a view on mince pies and also cheese chunks and cocktail onions on sticks - they approve and indeed served them to volunteers.
I did not see Nigel Farage tucking in to either, so cannot comment on his preferences!
|
|
Wot, no pineapple cubes? Northern barbarians!
|
|
Pineapple chunks are for effete Southerners. Oop North they like stronger flavours!
|
>> Champion
Aren't those mushrooms round your way?
|
|
Had to think about that one. Maybe in the 70s, dahling; now we have ceps and morels and who knows what. All ethically foraged, of course.
|
>>Champion>>
Touché. :-)
Last edited by: Roger on Fri 30 Nov 12 at 16:48
|
But how do you check if a replacement is the same......I've never heard of anyone asking the salesman to boil a kettle> up while you listen. Or, if it comes to that, stick a load of your
>> washing in to see if the machine works OK.
>>
>> Just pot luck, I suppose.
>>
>> Ted
>>
It doesn't have to be pot luck Ted.
There is an organisation called Which? They test everything from kettles to cars, including printers and printer ink cartridges. They are independent and not for profit.
www.which.co.uk/home-and-garden/
|
Can you still read Which? in the library? Probably not. I was in Halifax library a couple of weeks ago and they had hardly any books, let alone a reading room with current papers and magazines such as there used to be.
It's 20 years since I decided Which? wasn't worth paying for. The tests were good but often so out of date that they were of limited value.
Amazon reviews can be revealing when you calibrate yourself to them.
|
|
Which must register somewhere on the autistic spectrum. BTW our local library now signed up to Amazon e-books...!
|
A Comet store manager writes:
goo.gl/hexya (The Sun)
|
tinyurl.com/cq4qutu
The last throw of the dice for the administrators of Electrical chain Comet?
No the flurry to find the lost £64m lottery ticket!
|
So its going to cost the hard pressed tax payer a cool £49.4 million.
So who comes up smelling of roses then?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20754466
|
>> So its going to cost the hard pressed tax payer a cool £49.4 million.
>>
>> So who comes up smelling of roses then?
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20754466
Nobody at all.
Nipped into the once well stocked local store yesterday looking for a 500MB portable hard drive- NADA
Nothing much left really. Stacks of cheap digital radios and I-pod mounts. A few Hi-Fi systems that might have been bargains or not depending on spec and exact contents of boxes; many missing chargers, aux leads or whatever.
Anything that might have been decent was still at a price that was barely worthwhile given lack of access to easy SOGA etc claims.
|
>> So its going to cost the hard pressed tax payer a cool £49.4 million.
>>
>> So who comes up smelling of roses then?
As already noted:
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/9649664/Comet-another-OpCapita-kiss-of-death.html
|
>>So its going to cost the hard pressed tax payer a cool £49.4 million.
Well, kinda, not really.
Half of it is in redundancy payments which are going *to* the hard pressed taxpayer, so that'd be a wash.
The other half is in tax that perhaps won't or can't be collected. So its not coming from anywhere, and eventually is likely to be substantially paid anyway.
|
Comet. - Focusless
