If you are doing a paper self assessment tax return, don't forget it has to reach them by 31st October.
I am seething as usual at how difficult they make it in every little way. Not only does the envelope require a stamp, it is a C4 size and needs a "Large Letter" stamp, ot something most people keep a stock of (90p BTW).
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I can't understand why anyone with internet access bothers with a paper return. Online returns are so simple to do, if you miss a section that applies to you it sends you back to complete it and doesn't bore you trying to work out if another bit is relevant or not. Takes me about half an hour, paper returns used to take forever and have me tearing my hair out trying to understand Civil Service speak.
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It's a long story.
But an online return is not something you can do on the spur of the moment - they have to post you the ID stuff.
I was only trying to be helpful by posting a reminder. I'm sure you all did them months ago.
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HMRC are a pain in the backside. I am retired but have to complete a tax form every year. I have a personal pension plus a AVCs which are taxed at source, and my State pension. I also have shares where dividends are re-invested, but tax is paid on the dividends. However, because my pension exceeds £25,100 I have to complete a tax return. HMRC know precisely how much income I have as I have no other earnings.
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I was thinking last night of doing mine today......on line like last year.
Not too difficult in my case, Pension, part-time work and bank interest.
Decided it was too nice a day to waste and anyway, why do it on Sunday when I've got time to wait for a rainy day. Sod it !
Ted
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>> HMRC are a pain in the backside. I am retired but have to complete a
>> tax form every year. I have a personal pension plus a AVCs which are taxed
>> at source, and my State pension. I also have shares where dividends are re-invested, but
>> tax is paid on the dividends. However, because my pension exceeds £25,100 I have to
>> complete a tax return. HMRC know precisely how much income I have as I have
>> no other earnings.
I would write to them and inquire why and ask them if its required in the future., . I was earning over 50k a year, with loads of BiK yet they agreed that I didn't need to fill in a tax return as it was all taxed at source. My mother gets over 25k in pensions from multiple sources yet she just gets a notice of coding every year.
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>> I would write to them and inquire why and ask them if its required in
>> the future., . I was earning over 50k a year, with loads of BiK yet
>> they agreed that I didn't need to fill in a tax return as it was
>> all taxed at source. My mother gets over 25k in pensions from multiple sources yet
>> she just gets a notice of coding every year.
I have spoken to them and they assert it is because I have income over £25,100 pa. They also deduct from my personal allowance £1 for every £2 I get over £25,100.
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And that adjustment to the allowance is why you have to file a return. Not for much longer though as the additional age allowance for the over 65s is being abolished. Once it has gone you won't have to file returns anymore :)
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>> I'm sure you all
>> did them months ago.
>>
I do mine between Xmas and the New Year. No point rushing these things.
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I tried on-line access a few years back and it fell over a few times.
Back to paper for last 5 years........getting the data together takes most of the time.
Filling in mine and SWMBO takes 10 minutes each tops.
Reply takes 2 weeks and job done.
All that remains to do is pay the £x,xxx by January............being Scottish I will not carry over debts into the New Year (Bad Luck to start a New Year in debt!) and pay in December.
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HMRC too know nearly how much I get (very small foreign income) and wrote to me saying, no need to do a tax return now.
And about a week later, altered my tax code so I now pay more tax. I'm convinced this is wrong, so I will be doing an on-line tax return next year too. If they ask why, I'll tell them, "only easy way to check I was paying the right sum and after you altered my tax allowance - not convinced I was".
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In August I had to send them a cheque for £344.82 as they said I hadn't paid sufficient tax the previous tax year.
I'm going to sell all of my shares next year as it is not worth having so much tax deducted. Not sure where I'll put it as interest rates are so poor.
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Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 21 Oct 12 at 19:19
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Robbie 34, by "pension" (singular) do you include personal pension+AVCs+ state pension? I am in a similar position.
Shares are certainly problematical for tax returns, especially if they yield income from foreign sources. One target for proceeds of sales could be home improvements, in the hope of increasing capital value..
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depends on how much money you have to invest of course, but some of the alternatives are
Buying property for let - should get you 5-6% yield before tax
or the various crowd funding schemes, where you join online lending consortium, for cash loans and start up and seed capital. 4 - 10% return before tax depending on the risk profile you wish to follow.
All require tax returns tho!
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>>
>> Buying property for let - should get you 5-6% yield before tax
>>
Robbie is paranoid about RFL(£250) on his new car going up in the future - tenants and their problems would send him into orbit.
Robbie should pay off some of his son's /daughter's mortgage and be happy that he has put a smile on someone's face, if not his own!
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Mrs B works for three different teacher supply agencies only one of which applies her personal allowance. Other two use tax code BR. Even after offsetting cash in hand income from home tutoring she's usually due a refund.
The calcualtion for that can be expressed in 'sums' on half a page of A4.
The SA return involves pages of irrelevant stuff that's N/A and detail they don't need for tiny amounts of bank interest and share dividends on joint accounts/holdings. Some years they accept our calculation in lieu of a return, but not always.
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>>
>> >>
>> >> Buying property for let - should get you 5-6% yield before tax
>> >>
>> Robbie is paranoid about RFL(£250) on his new car going up in the future -
>> tenants and their problems would send him into orbit.
>>
>> Robbie should pay off some of his son's /daughter's mortgage and be happy that he
>> has put a smile on someone's face, if not his own!
Why have you got your knickers in a twist? It's no business of yours what I do with my savings etc.
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It's just my personal pension and AVCs that bring it up. I get very little personal allowance as it's eaten up by my state pension and dividends. Anyway, I have to sell some shares to pay for the CR-V, so I may get a bit back next year.
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It is relatively straightforward ( especially if your son is a very senior and well qualified chartered accountant) .
I have just filled in a self assessment on line a few weeks ago myself for the very first time ever at my own request. I asked my son to glance over it and he made one observation..... that the amount I was reclaiming was not enough and told me how to work out the correct amount . It was impossible to explain in the on line assessment form so I spoke to the helpline who were , as the name implies , helpful , agreed with my sons calculations and pointed me in the right direction to make reclaim ......
...... on Saturday I noticed a deposit on line into my bank of a refund for last year of just under £2000 ....
My tax code was amended so the salary increased last month by £900 and I reckon to be due around another £6 ,000 from overpayment since 2007.
Unfortunately SWMBO has got wind of this and I find that a kitchen designer is booked to visit us this evening.....
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>> Unfortunately SWMBO has got wind of this and I find that a kitchen designer is
>> booked to visit us this evening.....
>>
Schoolboy error. Tut tut. That sort of windfall should remain a closely guarded secret and should only directed towards Autotrader.
;-)
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>>I'm going to sell all of my shares next year as it is not worth having so much tax deducted.
There is no tax deducted on share dividends. Dividends are tax free for basic rate taxpayers.
(If you are a higher rate taxpayer then you have to pay an additional 20% tax to take it up to 40%.)
Or do you mean something else?
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If you read my previous post, HMG takes one pound off my age related allowance for every two pounds that I receive in dividends. Thus, I have lost almost all of my allowance. I have already paid tax on my dividends so this amounts to extra taxation.
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>> >>I'm going to sell all of my shares next year as it is not worth
>> having so much tax deducted.
>>
>> There is no tax deducted on share dividends. Dividends are tax free for basic rate
>> taxpayers.
Oh, but there is. It's 10% for basic rate taxpayers. See here www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/basics.htm
Last edited by: Robbie34 on Mon 22 Oct 12 at 17:41
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>>Oh, but there is. It's 10% for basic rate taxpayers. See here
www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/basics.htm
Oh but there is *no* tax deducted on share dividends for basic-rate taxpayers. The 10% tax rate is covered by a 10% tax credit that comes free with the shares, so no extra tax to pay.
I take your point about the age-related allowance though, and accept that you are paying additional tax at a marginal rate of 10% on your dividends - sorry I hadn't put all your various posts together; as they're all over the place I hadn't even realised they were by the same person.
But the good news is that as the age-related allowance is disappearing (as everybody is going to get that sum) over the next few years (thanks to inflation) you won't need to worry about it in the future.
Are you completing an actual tax return or in fact are you completing one of these: www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/p161-man.pdf
?
But remember, you are only paying an extra 10% tax on your dividend income owing to the clawback of the age-related allowance.
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Well, my P60s show that I have had 10% deducted from my dividends and the lesser figure is used to purchase new shares. The only shares where I don't pay tax are my Rolls Royce. They have some system whereby the dividend buys one type of share and then these are converted to ordinary shares. Thus, no deduction.
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Here are the details from HMRC that I cut and pasted. Clearly, you pay 10% on dividends unless you have a very low income.
Dividend tax rates 2012-13
There are three different Income Tax rates on UK dividends. The rate you pay depends on whether your overall taxable income (after allowances) falls within or above the basic or higher rate Income Tax limits.
The basic rate Income Tax limit is £34,370 and the higher rate Income Tax limit is £150,000 for the 2012-13 tax year.
Dividend tax rates 2012-13Dividend income in relation to the basic rate or higher rate tax bands Tax rate applied after deduction of Personal Allowance and any Blind Person's Allowance
Dividend income at or below the £34,370 basic rate tax limit 10%
Dividend income at or below the £150,000 higher rate tax limit 32.5%
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I tihnk what Mapmaker meant was that the 10% tax credit on the dividend discharged the basic rate liability so no more paperwork required.
There's no system to reclaim the 10% even for non taxpayers.
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>> I tihnk what Mapmaker meant was that the 10% tax credit on the dividend discharged
>> the basic rate liability so no more paperwork required.
>>
>> There's no system to reclaim the 10% even for non taxpayers.
He says very clearly in his post that you do not pay tax on dividends as a basic rate taxpayer.
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Are you completing an actual tax return or in fact are you completing one of these: www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/p161-man.pdf?
I have to complete a full tax return with about fifty pages. I'm sure that age related one would be more suitable.
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Looking at that form again it seems to be for those about to reach 65 and are still in employment. Not at all suitable for my circumstances.
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If you have simple tax affairs
SA200 - Short Tax Return
Applies to small self employed, taxpayers with Company/Personal Pensions
4 x sides of A4
Does not apply if you have Rental properties, Foreign shareholdings, Income above a high limit, Director etc
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>> SA200 - Short Tax Return
>> Does not apply if you have Rental properties,
I think you will find that the Short Tax Return can be used if you have residential lettings, as long as your income from these is below £73000.
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>> I was only trying to be helpful by posting a reminder. I'm sure you all
>> did them months ago.
>>
Nope, finally got round to mine last week! Never takes more than 30 minutes or so as it's pretty simple (and will be even simpler next year since we sold our house that we were letting). As someone else said, it's getting the information together, including finding that elusive P60, that takes the time. Then I scan all the forms in that I have written on so that I have a full record.
Have often thought about doing it online as, living abroad, it would be more convenient. I do feel uncomfortable about not having a full record of what I've entered in which box. Does the online system have some way of printing it off when complete?
And because I live in Austria, I have to fill in an Austrian one as well - but I pay someone to do that!
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>> Have often thought about doing it online as, living abroad, it would be more convenient.
>> I do feel uncomfortable about not having a full record of what I've entered in
>> which box. Does the online system have some way of printing it off when complete?
You can print it off, and also save a PDF copy as well should you wish
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Thanks. Now might be a good time to start the process for getting an online id for next year.... :-)
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I do.
When I was still living in England I did that one year. When next year rolled around, I ran into a problem. The previous year they'd sent me an umpty-somthing character password to go with my ID.
1) I hadn't got a clue what it was.
2) The system hadn't let me change it to something I was likely to remember.
3) There was no "forgotten password" function on the site.
4) On calling them, it turned out that the only way of resetting the thing was to re-apply for electronic access.
As I work in IT I absolutely point-blank refuse to use IT systems that are cobbled together by idiot muppets and which overlook essential and obvious core functions, I went back to paper.
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>> If you are doing a paper self assessment tax return, don't forget it has to
>> reach them by 31st October.
I used to fill in a paper tax return purely to check that my employer (or, after I retired, my occupational pension provider) had deducted the correct amount of tax. I photocopied the completed form so that the following year I knew which parts needed my attention. A couple of years ago HMRC said that they would no longer be sending me the annual form. Against my better judgement I reluctantly gave in.
>> I am seething as usual at how difficult they make it in every little way.
Chill out. Seething will only increase your blood pressure and will do you no good at all.
>> Not only does the envelope require a stamp, it is a C4 size and needs
>> a "Large Letter" stamp, ot something most people keep a stock of (90p BTW).
>>
Easy peasy. I used to take mine to the Post Office where the gorgeous counter clerk measured it, weighed it, and stuck the appropriate stamp put on it.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Wed 24 Oct 12 at 14:17
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Robbie
You seem determined to misinterpret or ignore everything I say.
1. That form is designed "because you are nearing or have reached 65."
If you're over 65 then you have already reached that age so the form applies to you.
Read the helpsheet. www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/p161-helpsheet.pdf
2. P60? Why do you have dividends on your P60? I don't believe you.
>>He says very clearly in his post that you do not pay tax on dividends as a basic rate taxpayer.
Too right he does. You don't PAY even a single penny of tax. (Except to the extent that they reduce your age-related allowance.) It is all smoke and mirrors. Tax is charged at a rate of 10% on dividends if you are a basic rate taxpayer, but by a fluke of magic HMRC deem that dividend income comes with a 10% tax credit. So it doesn't cost you a penny.
So if you receive a dividend cheque of £90:
1. HMRC deem it to come with a 10% tax credit - the dividend cash you receive being the remaining 90%, thus the tax credit is £10.
2. They record it in your tax calculation as £100 dividend received (£90+£10).
3. They then tax that £100 at 10% tax rate.
4. So your tax liability is £10.
5. BUT they've already agreed that there is a tax credit of £10 attached.
6. THEREFORE the additional tax you need to pay is £10 minus £10 = £nil.
SO, as a basic rate taxpayer you don't PAY any cash tax on your dividends. The £10 tax referred to above was never paid as tax, was never recoverable as tax, and was never more than smoke and mirrors having been magicked out of nowhere by HMRC.
3. "I have to complete a full tax return with about fifty pages."
You're not telling the truth. Or else what you're completing isn't a UK tax return - which is SIX pages long. www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/sa100.pdf Plus probably two employment pages too (of which you can ignore the second if you have only the one P60) - www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/sa102.pdf
Last edited by: Webmaster on Thu 1 Nov 12 at 09:16
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>> I don't believe you. ...........
>> You're not telling the truth. ...........
Wow. That's fighting talk!
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>>Plus probably two employment pages too
Unless, of course, you're retired, in which case probably no employment pages.
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Yes, I probably mistakenly called them P 60s. But my AVC statement is a P60. The statements I receive at the end of the financial year show the dividends that I have received before tax, and the amount after tax has been deducted, and the number of shares purchased. They also show any cash left after a given number of shares have been purchased. The tax certificates from the companies - R198/L/C/ Tax Tertificate - show very clearly the amount of dividend received before tax, and the net payment after tax has been deducted.
If you read my previous posts you should know that I am over 65, insofar as I receive a state pension. The link you provided states that it is for a person nearing 65 and in employment. I have never worked since I took early retirement in my fifties.
Fifty pages was an exaggeration, it just seems that long, together with the accompanying booklet of explanation. I object to you calling me a liar.
Last edited by: Robbie34 on Thu 25 Oct 12 at 10:18
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Tax Return deadline - Robin O'Reliant
