I have been considering downsizing recently, and have had a single valuation.
Fees were 1.25% + vat...to include all advertising and accompanied viewing if necessary.
The sales agent is well established and an ok guy who tells me that houseprices, excluding London, are generally falling nationwide, so my own valuation was about 5 to 8% higher than his.
Not particularly good news and I just wondered if 1.25% selling fee was the norm. Obviously I shall contact other local agents, and might even be cheeky and suggest a fixed fee. My previous home was sold privately 15 years ago...ads in local papers. If I decide to sell I think I shall pursue this particular avenue first.
|
Seems the norm here. Last time we sold I negotiated the fee down but they were useless so I still felt robbed.
I don't trust the valuations at all. There seem to be two approaches. Persuading you to pitch lower so it's easy money for them, or a ridiculously high valuation to get the business.
|
|
Seems about normal - we went with a smaller local Estate Agent - Can't remember the figures now but the local one was quite a bit cheaper than the option - Beresford Adams. It was a significant saving. Doubt whether you'll get cheaper than that. The only advice I'd give would be to negotiate a flat rate with them. Might work.
|
On the prices point it's pretty easy to find out what places are actually selling for. Less useful if your place is unique but helpful on estates, terraces etc.
houseprices.landregistry.gov.uk/
|
|
I think when I last sold in 2005 it was about 0.75% + VAT + costs for placing an advert in ESPC. Worked out around 1.2% in total (120k sale price)
|
So, from a recent buyer's perspective - having had two daughters purchasing places in the last couple of years, they didn't look at private ads at all.
As first time buyers they both felt that an agent would be helpful - and they were - both got their mortgages through the estate agents. And both agents had dedicated "progress chasers" whose job it was to smooth the sale - I'm not convinced it worked *that* well, but there's often more to it these days than just getting buyers interested. (As it happens both agents were moderately large agents - not national, but not one man bands).
Although that was good, my opinion of the agents I met when viewing with them confirmed to me my opinion of agents from many years ago. Daughters agreed - all agents seemed to not know much about the properties, made up stuff where they didn't know, and went from extremes of "couldn't care less" to "extremely pushy".
So although you might feel you aren't getting much for your money, look at it from the buyer's perspective too, and what added value your chosen agent can bring them. This may vary according to what kind of buyer you think your target purchaser would be.
Having said all that, if I wasn't in a rush I'd try it myself at a high price and see what happened... :-) And you don't have to accept their valuation, you can ask them to put it on higher...
|
|
I haven't thought about it in detail, but it seems to me that the existence of the internet must give other options these days. Just as you don't need to local paper any more to advertise your white elephants, just put them on ebay.
|
"but it seems to me that the existence of the internet must give other options these days."
There are a few but no one looks them. Right Move, Zoopla etc have sewn up the market and you have to be an agent to use these sites.
|
I would say 1.25% is at the lower end of the scale although fees vary enormously around the country. By all means try a private ad but in reality 99% of buyers don't look in the papers or estate agents windows any more: they only look on the web. If you are not on Rightmove, Zoopla etc you will not reach most of the market.
I'm afraid you probably have to accept the position and pay up. And don't overprice your house. Most houses on the market at the the moment are wildly overpriced and have been sitting there for months or even years.
|
>> I'm afraid you probably have to accept the position and pay up. And don't overprice
>> your house. Most houses on the market at the the moment are wildly overpriced and
>> have been sitting there for months or even years.
>>
A correctly priced 4 bed detached round here will go to a waiting buyer - no adverts or boards needed. Couple over road pulled that one. Marketed just after Xmas and completed 29/2/12.
Over price and it will sit for months.
|
|
I'm never really sure why people overprice it and leave it on the market for a long time, surely they want it sold or why put it on the market? 2 house near me has been on the market for over 2 years neither occupied I never see anyone viewing. The owner pops round once a month and that's it. The other one I've never seen anyone such much as open the door.
|
|
I only ever pay a fixed fee. Generally 1K + vat if sold within 3 weeks (A punter already up their sleeve) or 2k after a longer period. I set the valuation at all times.
|
I think there it needs a completely different tactic when prices are falling than when they are rising.
If falling, you have to decide do you really care about selling at all, do you have a target price you HAVE to get, do you have a timescale?
Buyers watch houses that have had their prices reduced, and don't necessarily conclude that now it must be a bargain. More likely they now try for an even lower price, and a dreadful downward spiral sets in, of downward-shifting prices chasing ever falling expectations.
My mother's house sold recently within weeks to the first viewer, who paid the asking price. The estate agent advised it was vital to make your asking price realistic if you really wanted to sell. By contrast a neighbour's house, pitched at too high a price, has been on the market for months, the price gradually dropping, now lower than my mother's sold for.
|
Price your house correctly and it WILL sell.
We bought our UK house just after the vendors had dropped the price by £10K, it having been on the market for a few months. There were three offers on the table by the Monday after the reduction.
One's own "gut" valuation is nearly always too high, though.
Our "stand-in" price of our Spanish home , including fixed improvements such as a new kitchen, rejas (window grilles) and an electric toldo, (sunblind) plus good quality air-con, was 225,000 euros, so that was what we tried at first.
Two years later we were glad to accept 135,000 euros, fully furnished. Since then an identical, but unimproved, apartment in our old block has failed to sell at 117,000 euros, having been on the market for a longer time than ours.
The moral is, (as with anything), a house is worth what someone will pay for it, not what the owner thinks it's worth.
Last edited by: Roger on Sun 14 Oct 12 at 10:42
|
The market in London, and the commuting home counties is still bouyant. About 20% down from peak prices but still selling nicely.
Outside London you need to be creative. House sales in some places (East Midlands for example) have all but collapsed, nothing outside the stupid bargain or massive country pile is shifting. Rental market is booming tho, so think creatively. Rent out your larger house and with your rental income, rent a smaller house. One of my friends is converting his largish house into two flats, to live in one and rent the other out. The configuration of his house is ideal will cost about 5 grand to do, paid for in first years rental income, after that its pure profit, and easily converted back into a single house if market trends dictate.
|
When we sold in 2011 we considered two agents. One happily offered 1.5%+vat and hinted 1.25%+vat might be possible and the other wanted 1.75%+vat but agreed on 1.5%+vat (they were the ones we settled on).
The first agent wanted to market the place 12% under what we'd hoped for and advised we might have to drop to 20% under for a quick sale.
The agent we went with wanted to market at 8% less than we wanted with advice to consider dropping 12% under if unsold after 6wks. We made them market at 5% above what we wanted and in the end (sealed bids between two buyers) we accepted £1000 more than we wanted from the eventual buyer.
Agents do not always know the market as well as they think and of course would rather get a quick sale at a lower price whereas that extra £10,000-£20,000 drop can have a big effect on a seller.
|
|
I wonder how long these artifical high house prices will stay in London.I know it is the bussiness and banking centre of the UK.When will the pack of cards collaps.>:)
|
>> I wonder how long these artifical high house prices will stay in London.I know it
>> is the bussiness and banking centre of the UK.When will the pack of cards collaps.>:)
>>
No selling prices are artificial, they reflect what buyers are willing to pay for something whether it's houses, goods or a service. The price will drop if and when the number of buyers drops.
|
Our agent's standard terms were 2% plus VAT and 26 weeks initial term.
We negotiated 1.25% if he got over a certain amount, 1% if below, and 8 weeks.
Always helps to haggle (and to know what deal someone else has managed to get from those agents!)
|
>>>> in reality 99% of buyers don't look in the papers or estate agents windows any more
I doubt that figure. Agents spend a small fortune on their advertising in our local property supplement, with some of them filling several pages each week.
The last two properties that we sold were negotiated in a southerly direction to 1.25% on the sale price, with the contract periods severely reduced. And on one of those, we asked the agent to add a clause to confirm that we could withdraw, even if they had found a buyer, if we were unable to find a suitable property ourselves.
Beware of commission based on the asking price. It could be painful.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Sun 14 Oct 12 at 14:03
|
|
We regularly did 18 months ago when looking for this place..
|
"in reality 99% of buyers don't look in the papers or estate agents windows any more."
An estate agent told me that nearly all purchases these days begin with the internet. The paper ads are mainly there to justify their fees and attract few enquiries. OK 99% might be an overestimate for some categories like the elderly but if you were seriously looking for a property would you plough through the local rag's ads or visit the Right Move site?
|
>>An estate agent told me that...
A possible response to a sellers question "Why hasn't my property been advertised in the Echo for the last couple of weeks?"
|
Due to the internet and rightmove the pattern of footfall in the agents has changed massively. Many folks only contact an agent once they have their property/s to view decided from a rightmove search and google streetview driveby. It is getting more rare for an agent to get someone in the office that they can "guide" through the places they think might suit.
The only use of popping into the agents is, when you get known, to get the drop on an upcomming property. In 2011 we did 95% of our groundwork via righmove without ever going in the offices... and never looked in the local papers.
Agents are overpriced for what they do but I'm happy to have that buffer between self and the buyer.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Sun 14 Oct 12 at 16:25
|
Possibly but I wouldn't worry about it myself.
Who in right mind waits for the weekly local paper to come out when looking for a house? The decent stuff has been on on line for up to a week by then and had a couple of viewings.
The rental market has a much quicker turnover and rental advertising has all but disappeared from the local paper. It's all on-line now. Another nail in the coffin for local newspapers
|
>>
>> Possibly but I wouldn't worry about it myself.
>>
>> Who in right mind waits for the weekly local paper to come out when looking
>> for a house? The decent stuff has been on on line for up to a
>> week by then and had a couple of viewings.
As Fenlander intimates, the best houses at the right prices the ones that will sell, get snapped up before it hits rightmove or zoopla, round here anyway. It now kinda works like this.
You choose your best mix of location and price range using all online tools. Then right move to pull it down to a shortlist, and doing this you get the viewing from the agent. Cultivate the agent and he will get you advance warning of whats coming before it hits the on-line advertising.
|
|
There are some agents who don't subscribe to any of the online directories - in a way I'm surprised that people bother with them, on the other hand they may have a decent little gem in their window or press listings.
|
Outside of London and the SE a seller in this market needs the Internet, the local paper, the estate agents window, a prominent 'For Sale' board and a nicely presented, realistically priced property, for there to be any chance whatsoever of selling.
And even then, you're not likely to get more than a trickle of potential buyers.
|
|
In France, with a very few exceptions, estate agents charge 4 per cent and upwards - sometimes as far as 8 per cent for a cheap place! And do very little. No wonder no-one French blinks at the idea of having a property on the market for two or three years, or more.
|
>> In France, with a very few exceptions, estate agents charge 4 per cent and upwards
>> - sometimes as far as 8 per cent for a cheap place!
In Spain the going rate is 5% + VAT, except for bank repos, where they are so dirt-cheap that they sell with no effort
Then a buyer has to pay 7% or 8% transfer tax + legal fees, + 1% mortgage tax, + notary's fees + land registry fees. The non fiscally resident vendor has 3% of the sale price retained against possible capital gains tax (even if there has been a capital loss - all property in Spain attracts capital gains tax, but that can be rolled over against a future purchase for more than the sale price declared.)
Oh - it's FUN buying & selling houses Spain.
|
|
Roger, isn't that usually when the official leaves the room to do some "photocopying" and an envelope of $$$ is passed across the table ?
|
>> Roger, isn't that usually when the official leaves the room to do some "photocopying" and
>> an envelope of $$$ is passed across the table ?
Yes - on both the occasions we bought/sold in Spain the notary discreetly left while readies changed hands.
Certainly on our sale just before returning to the UK, we were heavily pressured to accept part payment in cash, although we did not want it, as we had to account for all the money we transferred to our UK bank account. In many cases if you don't accept readies the purchaser will not buy as the property transfer tax is so high.
We actually whittled the cash in hand, paid to us, down to 8000 euros (saving the buyer just 560 euros!) of which sum we handed over 5000 euros to the estate agent as the bulk of their commission of an agreed 6000 euros + VAT, after which THEY refunded to us, by bank transfer, part of the already withheld commission from the buyer's 10% deposit paid to them!
Thankfully, the relatively small cash balance we had left went on moving expenses, so it never officially made it to the UK.
I am sure that the readies paid to the agent - not a small firm - were never declared for tax!
That is the business culture in Spain!
Last edited by: Roger on Mon 15 Oct 12 at 08:38
|
>> Outside of London and the SE a seller in this market needs the Internet, the
>> local paper, the estate agents window, a prominent 'For Sale' board and a nicely presented,
>> realistically priced property, for there to be any chance whatsoever of selling.
>>
>> And even then, you're not likely to get more than a trickle of potential buyers.
>>
I don't agree.
For there to be a house sale, all you need is for the seller to put it on at a realistic price. If you want a quick sale, you put it on at the lower end of a realistic price.
Anything will sell at the right price.
There is currently a 'Mexican stand off' between buyers and sellers, because too many sellers are not prepared to drop their prices.
|
>> I don't agree.
>>
>> For there to be a house sale, all you need is for the seller to
>> put it on at a realistic price. If you want a quick sale, you put
>> it on at the lower end of a realistic price.
Anything crappy will sell if its low enough. Look at RP and his fiesta.
|
>> And even then, you're not likely to get more than a trickle of potential buyers.
.....................and half of them can't get a mortgage.
|
>>Cultivate the agent and he will get you advance warning of whats coming before it hits the on-line advertising.
>>
Our house resulted from a call as above.
It had been on the market for one hour before we were called.
No handout had been prepared ( Pre the web).
Of course there was less competition back then without the world access to the web.
My daughter certainly "pestered" several agents local to where she wanted a flat ( IIRC there were about 17 local agents ).
The deal fell through ( sellers pulled out) but she kept asking and the same flat came back on the market 6 months later.
Bad move by the sellers as the market had dived and to their horror they had to drop about £40K.
|
>>
>> I'm afraid you probably have to accept the position and pay up. And don't overprice
>> your house. Most houses on the market at the the moment are wildly overpriced and
>> have been sitting there for months or even years.
>>
Same round my way, two houses identical to Spamcan Towers have been on the market for literally years, priced at what the owners think they're worth, whereas a third priced at market rate has sold inside a fortnight of going on the market. 1.25% does sound about right; if you want to sell a house it has to be one Rightmove, Zoopla etc.
|
When we sold in 2009 I think our agents standard selling fee was 1.5%. We got a deal for 1% because we were originally going to buy a property they had on the books (we changed our minds... but didn't pay extra).
Of course 1% of a large sum of money hurts to part with it. But better than 1.5% :-) About £4k in real money... not as bad as the stamp duty on this house at 3%! And we downsized.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 14 Oct 12 at 22:48
|
>> Of course 1% of a large sum of money hurts to part with it. But
>> better than 1.5% :-) About £4k in real money... not as bad as the stamp
>> duty on this house at 3%! And we downsized.
Its meaningless money, its all part of the new mortgage you negotiated.
|
>> Its meaningless money, its all part of the new mortgage you negotiated.
What mortgage...? We don't have one (now). Part of the reason to move to a 3 bed semi-detached house. I know you don't have a mortgage either Z :-)
It was nice to do all that before my 40th birthday I can tell you. Now saving a lot of money each month.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 14 Oct 12 at 23:15
|
|
From memory I think we battered our agent to 1.25% as well. Real enough money had to write them an old fashioned cheque.
|
|
That links to an article where Rightmove report a jump in asking prices in Oct. Asking price jumps are meaningless... well except for the fact you don't get many viewings.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 15 Oct 12 at 11:46
|
Estate agent fees - Manatee
