| Non-motoring > Holiday Cottage | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Lygonos | Replies: 33 |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 15:40
Holiday Cottage - Lygonos
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Buying a cottage that the family will be making use of regularly - just wondering if anyone has much experience of letting their own property as 'furnished holiday property' to make a bit of income when it's not being used by them. I've rented a few holiday cottages and seems a decent way to supplement the cost of ownership. I have no illusions that it's a big moneymaker taking into account costs, but apparently it can be helpful for reducing the old tax bill too. Pitfalls (other than the obvious being left in a tip or as a smoking shell) ? |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 15:59
Holiday Cottage - Bromptonaut
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What follows is based on experience hiring places on the Western Isles over last 15 years. Unless you're nearby you need a good keyholder on the ground to deal with 'emergencies' during a letting. Make sure he/she has essential stuff like spare crockery and contacts/funds to pay for eg plumber if loo blocks. Some tenants won't even change a light bulb but there should be accessible spares for those who will. Ditto your cleaner. Needs to be 110% reliable and have time in hand to sort the place out if tenants have left a mess. Wi Fi or other internet access is a must have for most tenants - even if adults get by without kids want to facebook etc. There will be house rules and do/dont lists but keep them simple and don't look fussy. Be absolutely clear about arrangements for gas/leccy and heating and how it's paid for. Also how much latitude they have if someting breaks down - you don't want a flood 'cos they messed with a stopped washing machine - another essential. I can live without a dishwasher but others won't. If something's quirky. A lovely place on Lewis had a Saniflo loo upstairs. It will only deal with poo and paper. There's an ode on the door explaining this. He also had an excellent website with his property gude as a pdf which I was going to link as an exemplar but it looks as though he's no longer letting. Last time we were there he was contemplating movig to the island full time so I guess he's done that. Things will get broken; cope with it. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 5 Oct 12 at 16:04
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 16:20
Holiday Cottage - Mapmaker
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>>Things will get broken; cope with it. Don't get too emotionally attached to the cottage. It's an investment producing an income. Don't get too emotionally attached to 100% of the income. It's a holiday cottage, it will have a hard life. Expect the cost of repairs to be far higher than with an ordinary let house. e.g. the peculiarity of how the bin opens that means that every tenant breaks it; in an ordinary let house the tenant would only break it once. As somebody on here is in the habit of saying, small businesses tend to fail (or disappoint) because they allocate insufficient resources to providing for contingencies. They are words of wisdom that I repeat to all my friends running small businesses, regularly. They never learn... Last edited by: Mapmaker on Fri 5 Oct 12 at 16:22
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 16:24
Holiday Cottage - smokie
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A close mate has a place in Cornwall which he lets to mates and mates of mates only, for a very fair rent. Most are now regulars, and some do some of the upkeep when they are there (minor repairs, mow the lawn etc). He covers his costs that way, but I don't think he has a mortgage to cover. He spent some time investigating renting it out through one of the companies but the costs and conditions put him off. OK he would have probably made a bit more but in the end he feels safer renting it to people he has a loose connection with, rather than the great unwashed :-) |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 16:54
Holiday Cottage - TheManWithNoName
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A cottage might be subject to business rates rather than council tax. tinyurl.com/9uzwof5 |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 17:15
Holiday Cottage - Lygonos
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Thanks for the advice so far - I don't need to let the cottage out, and it will likely be 6 months or so until it's in a condition worthy of letting out - might try the friends of friends line first to get a feel for it - it's about an hour from where I live and in the Scottish Borders where I tend to try and spend many of my weekends anyway. Most people are reasonable in expectation and the care they take of other peoples' stuff - it's the other ones I'd be wary of :-) |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 17:32
Holiday Cottage - sherlock47
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Friends are generally ok, friends of friends can be a little variable. Beware of those who are absolutely lacking in practical skills who adopt a 'if it does not work, hit it harder' technique. I suggest that you are very strict for tel, water and energy usage - very easy to get unexpected bills. A local trusty is absolutely necessary - altho if you are only 60mins away you may get away without. However local 'security' eyes and ears are worth it. I guess that in Scotland you will not have a pool, but I speak from the experience of someone who helpfully topped up the pool in my absence and cost me 900€ in water costs. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 17:40
Holiday Cottage - CGNorwich
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"I suggest that you are very strict for tel, water and energy usage - very easy to get unexpected bills. " As someone who regularly rents holiday cottage one thing I hate is being charged for "extras" like heating or linen or cleaning. Equip the cottage well, charge a rent that allows for heating etc and don't expect the rental to be 100% profit. Nothing make you more more determined to never return than being charged £20 for electricity when I have paid £700 for a week's rent. A lot of people return every year to the same cottage. Build up a customer base of satisfied customers. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 17:49
Holiday Cottage - sherlock47
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>>>to never return than being charged £20 for electricity when I have paid £700 for a week's rent.<<< CGN I was talking about when renting at mates rates - say 100€ for something that on the market would be upwards of 1000€ weekly. I totally share your view on commercial renting and extras. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 17:53
Holiday Cottage - Clk Sec
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>>might try the friends of friends line first to get a feel for it Might be worth trying a few folk from C4P. You won't go wrong with us, surely. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 17:56
Holiday Cottage - Crankcase
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Excellent idea. Now, who's going with who? |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 17:56
Holiday Cottage - Fenlander
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We've experience of this from both sides. Even if you don't "need" to let it put it into attractive letting condition with everything working and a fresh paint job. Take some nice pictures on a sunny day and set up your own website. Do the things folks advise (outside my experience but linked Facebook/Twitter too?) to get up the Google ratings. Charge a fair price so undercutting those on with an agency. Do not get tied up with an agency (well any of the major types in my experience) as they cream off too much and force the price up to an unattractive level. They also control when you can/can't take the place for your own use or "fine" you if you insist on a particular week. For example somewhere that has a summer week price of £1100 may lose £400 of that to the agency and if you wanted to book a week for yourself they might fine you their lost £400 commission. Attend to safety issues in the place with great care. Don't burden guests with an over valued items in the place, make it all easily replaceable. Don't make mates rates too cheap. If it would be £700 with an agency you could do it at say £550 to public and £450 to mates. As pmh says you need a trusted local contact, not just for emergencies but possibly the most onerous part of cottage ownership... the sat changeover clean/check/bedding etc. What area of the borders approx will it be in? Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 5 Oct 12 at 17:59
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 18:09
Holiday Cottage - Lygonos
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>>What area of the borders approx will it be in? Tweed Valley - not far from Glentress/Innerleithen/Peebles |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 18:44
Holiday Cottage - Runfer D'Hills
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I used to live there. Jealous a bit now ! Used to ride our bikes around Glentress. Miss it. Edit - I'll rent it from you one day if you want... Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Fri 5 Oct 12 at 18:46
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 19:01
Holiday Cottage - Fenlander
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Not been closer to that area than Hawick but I remember a brochure for those Glentress bike trails... looked brilliant. Nice rolling hills in that central borders area. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 18:58
Holiday Cottage - No FM2R
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>> I don't need to let the cottage out Don't then. Really, don't. I have faced exactly the same thing. 1) This is your home, or it’s not. If on any level you think it is, then people will, by your standards, mistreat it, damage it, take it for granted, spoil it, and otherwise cost you money and spoil your enjoyment for when you next visit it. And don’t think that just because they are a friend of yours that they will treat it as you would. People have different behaviours, even decent people. 2) This is an investment with no emotional investment. In which case, no mates rates. no tolerance, and every decision is business made. I have a house which I do not rent out. It’s important for me that I return to it exactly as I left it. Good and bad. I want to walk back into it anytime and feel like I am at home. There is no way that is compatible with renting or sharing. I specifically bought a cheaper house than I could have done simply so that I afford not to rent it out. I have another which I do rent. I don’t care about it one way or another and all decisions are business driven. If I think you’re ok I’ll rent it to you, if I think you’re very ok I’ll rent it to you with a discount. There is nothing in there that I am emotionally attached to, and there is nothing that cannot be replaced with a cheque. Even if you’re my mate, even if its discount rates, the contract still applies. For me, I see no way to happily combine the two scenarios. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 19:24
Holiday Cottage - sherlock47
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>> I don't need to let the cottage out Don't then. Really, don't. One of the advantages of having 'residents' is the added security. It just makes the place look occupied. Random cars and people movements are a greater deterrent than just lights/radios on timers. For me, part of the enjoyment of having friends stay, is the odds and ends that you find that you discover have acquired. Some useful, some not. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 19:31
Holiday Cottage - No FM2R
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I'm unconvinced about the security aspect, I think there's other ways of dealing with that - like having nothing worth nicking - word gets around. However, the enjoyment part is another thing. I'm horribly territorial whereas my wife gets joy from sharing. I do not believe in mixing business arrangments with friendships. My wife basically believes in mixing everything with everything. You pays your money, I guess. But the message remains, really understand what you're trying to get from the situation and what you do, or do not, find acceptable. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 19:36
Holiday Cottage - Fenlander
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Just as an aside we've found "friends" and others who stay on the cheap take more advantage than paying customers who you've never met before. Another important thing if you do let some weeks as a business.... decide on a fair cancellation policy, spell it out clearly and stick to it. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 19:45
Holiday Cottage - Zero
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>> I'm horribly territorial whereas my wife gets joy >> from sharing. I do not believe in mixing business arrangments with friendships. My wife basically >> believes in mixing everything with everything. You are telling us that you are a grumpy selfish overbearing git, yet your spouse is an outgoing gregarious sharing happy person. Welcome to my world. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 19:48
Holiday Cottage - No FM2R
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>>You are telling us that you are a grumpy selfish overbearing git, yet your spouse is an outgoing gregarious sharing happy person I'm sorry, has that not been clear from the get-go? |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 19:51
Holiday Cottage - Zero
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| Some on here may be labouring under a misapprehension. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 19:54
Holiday Cottage - No FM2R
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Do you think that some people on here think I'm gregarious, sharing, easy going, laid back and overall a very pleasant person? Because I'm not like that *all* the time, you know. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 19:32
Holiday Cottage - Dulwich Estate
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"I have a house which I do not rent out. It’s important for me that I return to it exactly as I left it. Good and bad. I want to walk back into it anytime and feel like I am at home." (1) Completely agree. We even go so far as spending the last day of a visit cleaning and tidying so it's just fine and as we want it when you open the door after time away. I take photos of the food cupboards to remind us what is and isn't there before we return. (2) People we know who rent out their houses wish they didn't have to - I have heard a few sad / annoying stories. They do it because they simply can't afford it otherwise. (3) Although we don't live in a tip the level of furnishings and fittings is far below the standard that we would need to have for renting. Our cost cutting comes from transferring all potentially discarded stuff to the other house: the dodgy kettle that needs the plug in just so, the old CRTVs, and even a nearly worn out bog brush. Much of the rest came as cast offs from family and via eBay. Now you know what the estate is for. To furnish it to the standard needed for renting out would be high. (4) After taking into account the cost of quality fittings etc., the cost of a key holder, gardener/handyman, changeover cleaner, insurance the return on your say £10,000 a year income is seriously reduced. The rest is taxed. It's just not worth the hassle. The key thing, the great pleasure is to able to go at a moment's notice and stay just as little or as long you like. I just couldn't cope with booking / reserving dates to stay in my own place. Last edited by: Dulwich Estate on Fri 5 Oct 12 at 19:34
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 19:35
Holiday Cottage - No FM2R
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>>The key thing, the great pleasure is to able to go at a moment's notice and stay just as little or as long you like. I just couldn't cope with booking / reserving dates to stay in my own place. 100% |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 19:44
Holiday Cottage - CGNorwich
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Speaking from the other side the worst cottages I have rented are from people who don't run them as a commercial enterprise. If I pay good money for rental I don't want a place furnished with junk and worn out furniture and be surrounded by their personal photos and the cupboards full of the owners food and clothes. As has been said run it as a holiday business of keep it a second. They don't mix. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 20:46
Holiday Cottage - sherlock47
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>> Speaking from the other side the worst cottages I have rented are from people who >> don't run them as a commercial enterprise. If I pay good money for rental I >> don't want a place furnished with junk and worn out furniture and be surrounded by >> their personal photos and the cupboards full of the owners food and clothes. >> >> As has been said run it as a holiday business of keep it a second. >> They don't mix. >> There is an even worse scenario where the owner is resident on site in a separate 'apartment' :) |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 21:35
Holiday Cottage - Armel Coussine
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>> an even worse scenario where the owner is resident on site in a separate 'apartment' :) We stayed two nights in a place like that in Spain, a side enterprise of an Englishwoman expat type, recommended by someone we know down there. It was OK, not great. A bit hot and cramped. Muzak with breakfast for God's sake... but the lady was nice and well-meaning, her husband, a British artisan - electrician or plumber usually working here - was nice too, and they had a trust bar you could just help yourself in and then write what you'd had in the book. Decent measures of course. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 22:25
Holiday Cottage - Bromptonaut
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>> Speaking from the other side the worst cottages I have rented are from people who >> don't run them as a commercial enterprise. If I pay good money for rental I >> don't want a place furnished with junk and worn out furniture and be surrounded by >> their personal photos and the cupboards full of the owners food and clothes. I've had that experience too. Mismatched crockery, furniture my great aunt would have had c1965 and a damp smell in the bathroom and the kitchen. Food is an odd one. The place I mentioned on Lewis always had a few things in the freezer and the landlord was explicit that you could use as long as you replace. Maybe a pragmatic response to fact that if Saturday ferry was late you're not going to find a shop open 'til Monday but it would have saved those unaccustomed to the local traditions from tummy rumbles. He also had a spice rack, sugar, tea bags etc there (and a welcome bottle of wine). Caught out once, around 2007, by a spring storm. We knew on arrival at Uig that ferry was still stuck on it's overnight berth on Uist and wouldn't leave for Harris for at least 2 (turned out to be 9) hours. We'd plenty of time to double back to Portree and stock up there instead of AD Munro in Tarbert as planned. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 5 Oct 12 at 22:29
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 22:38
Holiday Cottage - Zero
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Rented a cottage somewhere in the UK, (and channel islands) about 17 times in the last 20 years. The intention being to visit, at least once, all corners of the UK (last year ticked up the list of visiting every county in England and Wales) None have disappointed, the only complaint being Towels as an unannounced paid for optional extra at the Cottage in North Wales. Tight gits. |
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New Fri 5 Oct 12 21:53
Holiday Cottage - Mike H
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We have a flat in Austria that we bought exclusively for our own use before we upped sticks and moved here permanently in 2009. We then let it as a long-term residential let, but the tenant decided she wanted to move on after 14 months. From May 2011 it has been let as a holiday apartment, mainly lets of 2-3 nights but sometimes longer. We live about 9km away, and it all works fine. Once we've let the guests in and given them the key, we don't usually see or hear from them again. Our experience has been very positive. The decor has hardly deteriorated, the worst damage we've had is one broken serving dish. Most guests leave it looking as though it hasn't been used. We look after it ourselves however, so there is no direct cost involved apart from our time taken to clean it between visits. However, I have to say that mostly we have only couples, as it's a one bedroom flat that sleeps up to 4 with a sofabed in the lounge. Other friends in the area have the occasional horror story. One couple have a three-bedroomed apartment and they clean it every day to keep the mess down. We like to think that people leave the place as they found it, i.e. clean. It depends how you feel about strangers using your cottage, would you feel uncomfortable knowing that they've have been sleeping in your bed? As I think has been said, you need someone local and reliable to hold the key (although there are ways round that by using combination locks), and more importantly to clean it conscientously. We've achieved a 10/10 for cleanliness on Booking.com, you will only get bookings by good reviews irrespective of where you advertise and you have to be sure that everything is up to scratch. The sort of imperfections that you would put up might need attention if you have paying guests. What about emergencies? You need someone to manage problems locally, or if you take it on yourself, need good local contacts. If you don't need the money, IMHO I'd keep it for my own use. Last edited by: Mike H on Fri 5 Oct 12 at 21:56
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New Sat 6 Oct 12 15:10
Holiday Cottage - Ambo
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If you are going to let via an agency, contact some in the proposed area and ask what their requirements are. Their booking details will give an indication of the seasonal variations in asking prices. I was thinking about such an arrangement south of the border a few years ago and contacted English Country Cottages. They were too demanding, expecting the owner to be on hand in person to greet the guests. All agents are probably going to want the best months left for them. Hirers would probably be pleased to use a keysafe for the entrance door, being provided with the combination a day or two in advance. This would obviate the fraught situation where hirers from a long way off have to arrive during a fixed time slot to pick up they key or risk a call-out charge, or a night in a hotel (if they can find one at short notice). Log fires are an attraction but must increase insurance premiums. One place we used in Peebles had storage heaters, surely the safest solution to heating, left on constantly. If stone buildings, in particular, are allowed top cool down they invariably become cold and it takes several months of background heating to get rid of resulting damp. You, the agent or carertaker should have spare matresses readily to hand. It is not only children who leak in bed and stains may only be found after guests have departed, the next lot being imminent. |
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New Sat 6 Oct 12 18:35
Holiday Cottage - Mike H
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>> If you are going to let via an agency, contact some in the proposed area >> and ask what their requirements are. or you can just put it on a website (or websites) and please yourself when it is and isn't available. Most of the smaller websites are just effectively "shop fronts", where you pay a standard fee to promote your property. You then receive email enquiries from guests and go from there. Ours is on Booking.com and that's "instant booking" - if the apartment's available, it can be booked and you just get the booking details by fax and/or email. No doubt some of the domestic cottage sites work the same. With regard to spare mattresses, use waterproof undersheets as we do, never had a problem. The cottage can run trouble-free with a bit of planning. |
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New Sat 6 Oct 12 19:02
Holiday Cottage - Bromptonaut
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>> Hirers would probably be pleased to use a keysafe for the entrance door, being provided >> with the combination a day or two in advance. This would obviate the fraught situation >> where hirers from a long way off have to arrive during a fixed time slot >> to pick up they key or risk a call-out charge, or a night in a >> hotel (if they can find one at short notice). Two brilliant places I've stayed at on the Hebrides, the one on Lewis and another on Harris had absent landlords. The vagaries introduced by the ferry mean landlord meet could be a chancy thing!! Keys in a safe or under a stone by the door. The LL usually rings on Sat eve to check all OK. |
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