I arranged car hire from Mahon airport through Holiday Autos, paid for in Sterling with my credit card.
The Spanish company (Atesa) told me they had my booking, but no car for me and I'd have to go somewhere else and claim a refund from Holiday Autos on my return to the UK!
When the steam stopped coming out of my ears, I thought that wasn't on and could imagine all kinds of trouble trying to claim a refund, so spent some time on my mobile to a UK number and after a couple of hours delay, finally drove off in a hire car arranged by Holiday Autos. I'd had to pay extra to the new hire company, and I'm waiting to see the cost of calls from my PAYG mobile.
I'll claim all my additional costs from Holiday Autos, but I'm in a vindictive mood and want to cause them as much harm as possible for the inconvenience they caused me.
I'm thinking I'll send honest reports to as many review sites as I can possibly find, but I'd welcome any legal suggestions.
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If it's a significant amount Small Claims process maybe - but it'll have to be a couple of hundred I suppose for the effort. The UK version have a big FB page - have a whinge there.
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Refunds from Spanish companies, after the event - the words "blood, stone, out & of" come to mind!
I hope that you filled in the official complaints book which, BY LAW, all Spanish businesses are obliged to keep and produce for a customer's complaint to be recorded, on demand.
Most businesses will do almost anything to avoid an entry as complaints are monitored by the equivalent of trading standards and there can be stiff penalties imposed for non-compliance.
tinyurl.com/8ke3mt5
Last edited by: Roger on Thu 27 Sep 12 at 18:19
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Credit card company for the original transaction? Believe the retailer penalty for a chargeback is incredibly punitive (think bounced cheque on a whole new level).
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>>>Refunds from Spanish companies, after the event - the words "blood, stone, out & of" come to mind!<<<
Contract is with Holiday Autos in the UK! No refund, invoke the Credit Card company.
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Non-confrontational complaining is a skill worth using. A righteous but confrontational complainer will usually get their money back but not much else. A skilled non-aggressive approach will usually also get that part sorted and in addition some form of next deal sweetener.
If a service provider can see they have a very disappointed customer but that it may be possible to placate and keep then they'll normally try to do that. Refund plus half price next time voucher or somesuch would a normal approach. A ranter will not normally be offered anything other than a refund.
Vengeance may feel sweet but cats can be skinned in different ways.
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So holiday autos arranged a new car for you through another provider?
If that's the case then I would say that you should be compensated in some form for your increased costs and inconvenience, but a refund plus the use of the car....
I would also hold back on any negative reviews until you have a satisfactory outcome - lots of companies are pretty canny now and will be monitoring any good / bad feedback, and may connect your complaint
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bt's annoying experience is very different from ours.
Several years ago now we hired in advance from a firm in the outskirts of Granada, with an office at the airport and cars there too. Recommended by friends who live near there.
We got a discount for knowing someone local and the car was good, a virtually new Fiat, with everything working. The firm's staff were all cool pleasant young German women. They didn't charge for the wheel trim I had graunched and pointed out to them. The bottom line was as promised, to the penny.
I'd use them again any day.
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Whoever the contract is with, it is the Spanish supplier who is at fault.
Ever since the recession had begun to bite (long before we left Spain) there were reports on the English language forums of exactly this happening.
Many hire companies found their credit for car purchase just dried up, as the broken banks stopped lending. Fleets were sold and replacements were hard to acquire, leaving a shortfall of cars at the point of delivery. Car hire companies overbooked, so desperate were they to earn revenue from the vehicles they had.
It seems that the situation is still current.
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May well be Roger, but in this case UK Contract law will be what matters.
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We booked through www.doyouspain.com on recommendation of a colleague
Paid a small deposit up front (10% IIRC) and the balance at the hire car office. They don't tell you who the provider is until after you have booked when you get an email with the collection details etc. Pleasant surprise to find that it was Sixt - service was excellent.
We went for off airport as it was quite a bit cheaper for us, and the nice man from sixt was waiting at the terminal in his shuttle bus - we were the only ones so we had personal service - he helped load and unload our bags at both ends - nice touch and not expected.
Got to the hire office a couple of miles away with hot and tired kids who were all offered free drinks from the fridge while I did the paperwork. We had booked a full size 7 seater (galaxy or equivalent) so it was nice to get a new high spec sharan with dsg auto and loads of extras - would guess it was only a few weeks old as it only had about a thousand kms
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I'll claim all my additional costs from Holiday Autos, but I'm in a vindictive mood and want to cause them as much harm as possible for the inconvenience they caused me.
You cant really blame Holiday Autos, they did their part, as the Spanish Hirer admitted, and then Holiday Autos did get you car hire when it all fell through.
So Like Humph says, be honest not vindictive. HA will refund your out of pocket expenses, and the extra you had to pay to hire, and will probably offer you a goodwill voucher for hire car next time.
I have used them countless times in Europe, and have always been cheap and reliable.
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I don't think I recounted my recent experience in Majorca (early Sept).
Booked a car through carhire3000, supposedly covering all insurance. Fiesta, for a week, £99 - nice and cheap.
The hire was through Goldcar. There were massive queues, took almost 3 hours to collect the car. I was charged about £45 for additional insurance (tyres, breakdown, wing mirrors IIRC) and also over €80 for a full tank (return empty).
it got keyed along the passenger door but so far I haven't heard anything further, and I am expecting the insurance will cover it.
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>>I hope that you filled in the official complaints book which, BY LAW, all Spanish businesses are obliged to keep and produce for a customer's complaint to be recorded, on demand.
Very useful information, thanks.
I did have some knowledge of this and requested the relevant document - it was never forthcoming. May be worth following up!
Curiously, it would seem the family before me had no reservation, but received a car and the family behind were also told their reservation wasn't available!
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Seemingly then the fault of the UK company isn’t huge, the majority of the blame lies with the Spanish company.
So, I understand you'll want your expenses covered, but if you think about it, they did what you’d booked them for; they guaranteed a car, it went wrong, they sorted it out. So whilst I’d expect an apology for the performance of their supplier, and I’d expect reimbursement of my time, money and trouble; Assuming that was resolved, I’d also probably deal with them again BECAUSE they’d fixed it when it went wrong.
Everybody is a perfect supplier until something goes wrong; it’s how they behave AFTER its gone wrong which separates the wood from the chaff. IMHO, of course.
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>> it’s how they behave AFTER its gone wrong which separates the wood from the chaff.
Exactly!
They've had over a week without response and now I'm going after them.
I had a thoroughly enjoyable holiday, despite their best efforts to spoil it from the start.
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Well, there is certainly a line, and if you've given them enough time to put it right and they haven't, then I guess they've no one else to blame but themselves.
In which case there would be two aspects; getting your money back and putting the boot in.
Getting your money back is fraught, but not impossible, and I'm sure you're on all possible routes. Start at calm statement and complaint, travel through threats and implications, end up at the country court.
Sticking the boot in is a little more subtle. Firstly is considering what you want to gain; if it’s a bit of stress relief then just leave logical, calm but nasty complaints and feedback all over the place. I doubt it will do much, but you will relieve a great deal of stress.
The problem is, that so many complete idiots lay down ridiculous levels of abuse for things that were all their own fault, it devalues genuine complaints. So your feedback is not likely to make much difference unless you can catch the hearts and what passes for the minds of the media so that they'll join your campaign.
If you really want to get them, join some forums. Bide your time, and wait for people to give you openings. Not unlike sitting on here and waiting for someone to ask for a recommendation for a garage in your home town.
Then you’ll be able to make a difference.
Whether or not it’s worth it though.............
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 28 Sep 12 at 01:04
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>> Firstly is considering what you want
>> to gain; if it’s a bit of stress relief then just leave logical, calm but
>> nasty complaints and feedback all over the place. I doubt it will do much, but
>> you will relieve a great deal of stress.
The decide what you want point should be at the start of any complainants flowchart. Having dealt with complaints professionally in the past it's surprising how many are floored by the question.
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>> >> it’s how they behave AFTER its gone wrong which separates the wood from the
>> chaff.
>>
>> Exactly!
>>
>> They've had over a week without response and now I'm going after them.
>>
>> I had a thoroughly enjoyable holiday, despite their best efforts to spoil it from the
>> start.
Have you reminded them? how many working days has it been? do you really think they have some kind of vendetta against you and made every effort to ruin your holiday?
I would give them a little more time, dont forget they are dealing with this useless Spanish car hire firm as well.
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Thanks to RP for the info about the FB page, that seems to have moved them along a bit - got two emails from them this morning.
I've now initiated a complaints procedure with my debit card supplier (duff gen earlier, I paid by debit card) and informed them of such.
I think I've concentrated their minds now, so I'll sit back and see what develops.
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They agreed to cough up the 'late collection charge' almost immediately as they recognised that was their fault.
I then pointed out (again) the time and cost of PAYG 'phone calls, delays and inconvenience resulting. They gave £40 without consultation. I guess it's a 'take it and go away' payment. The total hire charge was £120, so I guess it's a fair result.
I will iterate, this was a booking with HOLIDAY AUTOS collecting from ATESA.
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And I'd take it as at least in part a recommendation.
It went wrong, obviously not good.
They fixed it at the time, good.
You had to ask more than once, not good.
Refunded you reasonably, good.
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>> I will iterate, this was a booking with HOLIDAY AUTOS collecting from ATESA.
>>
Holiday Autos is an agent/broker. It places your order with a supplier at your pick up point.
Good result. Be happy!
Last edited by: John H on Mon 15 Oct 12 at 15:23
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WHY DID YOU PUT HOLIDAY AUTOS IN BLOCK CAPITALS?
>I then pointed out (again) the time and cost of PAYG 'phone calls, delays and inconvenience >resulting. They gave £40 without consultation.
>I guess it's a 'take it and go away' payment.
I would guess its far in excess of any PAYG or any other costs you occurred, so in my book its more than a "take it and go away" payment, its more than fair recompense. I dont see why you have to be so ungracious and unfairly hostile about it.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 15 Oct 12 at 16:01
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I took a query like this in work last week - being the patient type I looked it up, and found this.
European Consumer Centres
There is a network of European Consumer Centres (ECC) in all EU member states including Iceland and Norway. They can:
provide information and help on problems with goods or services
help you sort out your complaint by speaking to the trader on a your behalf.
The UK European Consumer Centres are run by the Trading Standards Institute.
Contact them if your complaint to the trader has not been successful and you want advice on what to do next.
Website if you bought goods: www.ukecc.net
Tel: 08456 04 05 03
Website if you bought services: www.ukecc-services.net
Tel: 08456 08 94 94
There's quite a bit more on the internal CAB website.
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Useful Info R.P. but I think your suggestion about their facebook site may have been more productive, it certainly brought in immediate response.
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I'm not allowed to give the FB advice in work ! :-)
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Best retribution for failed, foreign, car hire? - R.P.
