After seven years I have decided in the long term I cannot continue with business, it is slowly destroying my life. I have been suffering from depression a bit lately and a lot of it is due to the isolated nature of this business.
I have decided that in September 2013 I am going back to university full time to study a post graduate certificate in education in order to become a lecturer in the FE sector. Already worked out all the finances etc, just need to apply for a place now.
I am finding each month harder and harder, and today I have been battling with licensing issues which are getting more and more complicated to follow by the book.
In terms of profit I am making as much as money as I could do working on a check out, and the stress and lonely less just isn't worth it any more.
My plan is to carry on as normal until next summer, then I will go part time and carry on the business part time in the medium term (hopefully the next few years). I will turn down a few of my more demanding clients and just work with a few easier ones.
My heart is just no longer in it, and I just want out of the IT industry, but sharing my knowledge and experience with others is a completely different matter. I already did a very basic teaching qualification earlier this year and passed with flying colours, the tutor there suggested I go onto the degree.
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Sorry to hear about the depression.
Running your own business in this country is not easy, and there is far too much red tape. This is a shame, because I believe that the economic health of the country depends on small businesses.
We had a small garage locally. The mechanic who ran it was an honest bloke, and good at his job. About 10 years ago he jacked it in - basically because of the stress and agro of running the business, and the amount of time it was taking up. Nobody else wanted to take the business on, so it closed. It was great to be able to get MOTs done locally. Alas, the nearest MOT station is now . . . - but I digress.
I hope that your new direction turns out to be fulfilling.
Last edited by: tyro on Thu 13 Sep 12 at 16:53
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A lot of it is not government red tape but Microsoft red tape. And with the changing on line world I am just no longer bothered about anything. My parents are trying to talk me out of it and think I just need a damn good holiday (I haven't been outside of the UK since 2007) but while it will make me happy in the short term it doesn't solve the issue.
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A lot of it is not government red tape but Microsoft red tape.
I don't doubt it.
To be honest, the guy who got out of the garage business locally told me that one of his biggest problems was suppliers - who kept on sending the wrong parts. Hassle comes from all sorts of sources!
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Good luck.
Try not to act in haste, but ultimately you should follow the course you think will make you happier.
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The problem with not acting in haste is nothing ever changes. It is just the only other job I can see myself doing. I am sure it will be stressful and a lot of paper work etc, but hopefully it will be more rewarding than what I am doing now.
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FWIW Rattle I think your career change sounds like a good idea; your posts on here give me the impression you're wasted (no not that sort of wasted) doing your current job.
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I tend to agree with Focus. The talents needed to be an IT techie and to run a small business have nothing to do with one another. Not everyone would find it easy to run a business. I wouldn't myself, a mass of endless petty concerns. Some are cut out for it though.
You are more of an intellectual and theoretical soul Sheikha. You may well be happier and more useful as a teacher (although when my wife's laptop was giving me gyp the other day I kept wishing you lived round the corner).
It's sensible of you to wind the business down and keep some of it going for the time being. Always a good idea to have another iron in the fire. Hope it goes well for you Sheikha.
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I very much understand your feelings on this Rats. Ive been going ten years now self-employed but whenever I felt I was starting to make progress, something knocked me back.
I started off well for the first 4 years, then the work I was doing for a trader stopped as he started trying to take the peehiss, so I let the work go.
I recovered and two years later I was doing better than before, then 2008 hit and profits started dipping as the recession started to creep into my income. I fought back cutting back on my overheads and until 2010 I managed to maintain my profit despite reduced income.
Since then profits have dipped to 40% of my 2007 income and its far from easy accepting such a low income.
Also since 2008 my physical health has been declining to the extent that it has affected my ability to work and since 2010 it has literally become a limit on how many hours I can work - I have actually done 10 hours more than normal this week and I literally have not been able to turn my head to the right for two days such is the effect of doing too many hours - its depressing and wears heavy when the bills are going up and you can see this chance to increase income, but your body wont let you.
I have found some solutions though. First, I have diversified and I have other 'little earners' like house sitting which is a license to print money if you can get the jobs.
I have also stopped taking the big valets anymore as I simply cannot do them and accepting that has taken alot of the pressure off - they actually are not very high on profit anyway so its sensible on the business front aswell.
Perhaps the most important part of being self-employed is motivation and you have to make sure the business works for you on a personal level, so if I dont want to do a job, I dont, I have limited hours to sell, so I book jobs that I can do and that make a decent margin as it does not do you any good as person if you dred going to work.
Ive taken on three new customers this month, all easy to clean cars, not tight on the pennies and nice people to deal with. I making it work for me and your business must do the same.
Have you considered a partnership with someone else in your field? Maybe you need somebody to bounce off professionally? Not all businesses are built from a single individual - my father started his business working with another man he knew professionally and their individual talents complimented eachother for a business that started in 1983 and is still going today ( he still rings my dad up for advice despite my dad retiring 8 years ago ).
Is there a lack of a female in your personal life? I know you have mentioned it in the past ( internet dating if I recall ), so maybe if you havent already, you should put some energy into that aspect of things as for all their faults, some men really do need the support of the fairer sex to give them a better balance in life.
Just a few ideas, could be well off the mark!
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>> What Focus said + 1.
>>
+1
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Well Rats, good luck with it. No point in carrying on with something which neither gives you pleasure or even adequate reward.
I do though sense that many people in "business" are feeling very similarly right now. A huge number feeling trapped in career choices by accident or design. We have to remind ourselves that we are all living through the strangest and most challenging of times. Life is unlikely to return in the foreseeable future to what was considered "normal" before 2008. It is indeed potentially depressing but I guess we'll all have to adapt to the changes which have happened and those which are surely still to come. Our values will need to shift fairly dramatically. I fear total economic collapse is a distinct possibility. We, all of us in the West, are the "emporers" created by recent modern economics and truly and actually have no clothes.
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From personal experience in the last big recession (1992) I can tell you that the only thing more depressing than watching profits remorselessly turning to losses, is having to make 8 good people redundant.
It can be a huge relief to draw a line and say "enough is enough", as once I had done that I was able to sleep at nights instead of watching rubbish TV at 3 am!
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Do it. And I wish you well.
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No issues on the profit front, the issue is more scalability and the issue that my heart is not in it any more. And I admit some of all this is to do with the chance of meeting new people, something I rarely get to do apart from my clubbing mates which group keeps getting bigger and bigger.
I am also becoming lazy and again in a work environment that won't happen. Just want to tread this is a part time money earner and focus on something else as a career. I am not giving in the business for a good couple of years yet, but I will have to go to part time and pick and choose a bit when I go full time at university.
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If there really is little money in it then why not jack it in and get a job now until you start your course. It might be a good outlet for you to do something different for a while, and you would be likely to be in the company of others which may perk you up a bit, plus you can just walk out at the end of each day and forget about it
You could still retain your "easy" customers if you wanted
When I worked in IT I got fed up, and as luck would have it the company I was working for went bust. I picked up some temporary work through an agency for a large aerospace company which I really enjoyed (my first experience of working for a very large organisation) which then evolved into a permanent role in their procurement organisation. Aircraft still float my boat far more than IT ever did, but if it hadn't been for my circumstances being changed for me then I wouldn't be where I am today.
Good luck!
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>> What Focus said + 1.
+2
I don't think this business is a career. You could make changes to what you offer but there's a risk nobody would want to pay for what you offer as a service. And a lot on here keep telling you to charge for some things you give away for free - but we're not at the coal face.
I think you're making a good decision getting out of this as a business. And best of luck doing a PGCE.
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Any good?
www.jobs.ac.uk/job/AFD218/senior-it-training-and-communications-officer/
The reason I suggest this, is you may be able to get MMU to fund/support your PGCE
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Are you sure you're equipped to become a teacher?
If you don't like red tape, you may end up worse off.
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Good on you mate. A great relief often comes when a decision has been cast in stone.
My only thoughts are these.
1. If the business is definitely not for you then fine.
2. IF you are good at what you do maybe there is a future in being more selective customer/job wise..
3. We all can get lost in the panic of recession, unsure of our abilities etc. However..........Even here in rural Ruralshire we have untold ***** that think that they are computer experts when in fact they haven't a clue. The world is full of them. Not too much different from my trade.
4. There are customers that wouldn't comprehend paying £20.00 an hour for a Computer Expert to adjust their micro-bits, BUT would feel much more comfortable paying perhaps twice that. The 'Cuddle of Confidence' is all important.
5. Now I have to make the Wife some tea, put the Dogs out, do the diary, lock the van etc etc. Never easy being self emp.......Good luck anyway.....
Last edited by: Webmaster on Wed 19 Sep 12 at 01:30
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>>There are customers that wouldn't comprehend paying £20.00 an hour for a Computer >>Expert to adjust their micro-bits, BUT would feel much more comfortable paying perhaps >>twice that. The 'Cuddle of Confidence' is all important.
Instead of £20 / hour it is often better to say
£40 to fix XXX, £60 for task YYY...............making sure of course you price at £30 or more / hour.
My (non NHS dentist) charges £4.00 per minute. He has just retired a fairly wealthy man!
My son's employer has a flat rate to charge their partners for certain senior engineering grades - up to £2,000 per day and time is charged in 15 min lumps so a day can earn in excess of £2,000 when the time sheet is totted up.
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>> My son's employer has a flat rate to charge their partners for certain senior engineering
>> grades - up to £2,000 per day and time is charged in 15 min lumps
>> so a day can earn in excess of £2,000 when the time sheet is totted
>> up.
>>
A common error made by people setting themselves up as one-man-band businesses is to undervalue their work substantially, and charge pitifully small hourly rates.
In Rattle's current business the problem is that there are so many free experts around (such as on this site's computer forum) who take away from Rattle the income that the likes of AC would have willingly provided.
Also, if Rattle was to try to charge a much higher rate for his services, there are so many part time "PC repairers" out there that he could lose a lot of custom.
The solution is to charge at least double and do half the work. The time taht he frees up can be used for part time "working on a check out" (as Rattle puts it). he is bound to meet a lot of people there and so that will solve his problem of feeling "lonely" and "isolated".
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Why not train to be a dentist, Rattle, you could be terrorising people within 5 years AND getting paid for it.
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SENIOR IT & Communications Officer =Grade 6 : £23,811 - £26,779 per annum
The salary sounds appallingly low for what should be a reasonably responsible roll requiring qualifications and experience.
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I thought for a mo that you said senior TT. I was about to unravel the old Bike.......
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>>The salary sounds appallingly low for what should be a reasonably responsible roll requiring qualifications and experience.
I suggest it, or something like it as a good way to get into lecturing in higher education. Here at the polyversity, we have a number of technicians who are effectively being paid to take modules which will give them degrees and other qualifications while they are earning. The advantage they have over external candidates is that we know them, and they are well placed to pick up associate lecturer work as soon as it becomes available - again an excellent way into a full time and permanent lecturer position.
If Rattle would prefer not to pay full fees, this job (or similar) might offer a better route than full time studentship. As there is a significant teaching role in this particular job, it will also help to break the catch 22 situation of demonstrating experience when applying for full time lecturer positions.
As an aside, you don't need a PGCE to lecture in HE - there are other ways to obtain fellowship of the HEA, which is effectively becoming a "driving licence" for HE lecturing.
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>> The reason I suggest this, is you may be able to get MMU to fund/support
>> your PGCE
>>
failing that, how about
www.jobs.ac.uk/job/AFD215/it-advisor-operations
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>> As an aside, you don't need a PGCE to lecture in HE
I did wonder about him doing a PGCE - that's to teach in schools normally, or so I thought. Lecturer's at University often have only a degree. Some eventually get called a professor and never did anything like a doctorate.
What qualification is needed for HE teaching/lecturing?
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>>What qualification is needed for HE teaching/lecturing?
I don't know any who don't have a batchelor's degree.
To get a lecturer position at a respectable university, you effectively need a doctorate. There are some older lecturers who don't have one, but, it's rare now.
The route for lecturers who are taken on without any teaching qualification is to do a PGCLTHE course (a couple of modules from a master's level education course), which allows the lecturer to obtain fellowship of the HEA, and that's it.
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>>>> What qualification is needed for HE teaching/lecturing?
>> I don't know any who don't have a batchelor's degree.
> To get a lecturer position at a respectable university, you effectively need a doctorate.
I asked it (for Rattle) because I know he already has an IT related BSc.
And my supervisor for my MSc/PhD was not a doctorate. And is now a professor. More to do with money brought in for research grants etc (probably).
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Rattle, there are two reasons to go back to college:
a) To get a specific qualification to get you into an area of work you want to target. Here, you should aim to find the most efficient route of entry to the job you want, because every month spent on a course is a month during which you're paying tuition, not earning.
b) To study something that interests you, for the love of it. Here, find something that you're passionate about, that'll make you want to get out of bed on a wet November morning to be in college for 8am.
The two need not be mutually exclusive, but if you're to enjoy a return to college and stay the course, you need to be clear in your own mind what your reasons for going back are.
Equally, there are two good reasons not to go back:
c) For the social life.
d) Because you've nothing else/better to do.
I'm not trying to be unpleasant, but every college in the world has its population of perpetual students who never actually finish. At postgrad level, they're known as the ABDs - "All But Dissertation".
So, with that said, are you aiming to work in further education i.e. teaching post-A level certficate/diploma type courses, or in higher education i.e. teaching HND/degree level?
I ask because I work in the university sector, and which of the above you're aiming for dictates what qualification you need to go after.
Much employment in the further education sector is by way of short-term contracts; there are a minimum of full-time core staff in FE colleges, especially privately-run ones. Even in the Open University, for example, where my wife is an Associate Tutor, appointments are made to teach on specific courses - subject to demand - for no more than three years at a time.
Effectively, as a new entrant to the university sector, you won't get any post (with the possible exception of a short-term contract as a teaching assitant) without a PhD. Yes, there are incumbents in the sector who got in direclty after their PhD, or even with BSc/BEng or Masters qualifications and relevant experience, but that really hasn't been the case since the mid/late '90s. (Unfortunately, about the time I - still an undergrad - decidced that working in a college would be an agreeable way to spend my days, so I'd best get on and do a postgrad for myself...)
Even with a PhD, getting the combination of postdoc research experience, lecturing experience and academic publication profile needed to secure a long-term post in what's become an extremely competitive field is very difficult, rather badly paid, and quite a bit more stressful than you may think. There's a ring of truth to the old joke that postdocs think caffeine, nicotine and ibuprofein are types of vitamin.
So, can I sugget that you think about 1) what level of job security and potential for career progression you're looking for, then 2) what level you want to teach at, which dictates 3) which type of institution you're dealing with. If you're still happy that you're on the right track, then join the relevant professional association for your field as a student/associate member and approach their careers advisors for definitive guidance on the qualifications you need to get where you want to be.
If you're not too sure, don't worry - it a big decision. Whatever course you have in mind, the best advice I can give is to read "How to get a PhD" by Estelle M Phillips and Derek.S. Pugh. The two chapters "How to get a PhD" and "How not to get a PhD" are the place to start, and really should be required reading for anyone thinking of going to college.
Here's the link to it on Amazon: tinyurl.com/9chpphg
Good luck, whatever you decide!
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>>So, with that said, are you aiming to work in further education i.e. teaching post-A level certficate/diploma type courses, or in higher education i.e. teaching HND/degree level?
I would add a further choice there - if you want to teach in HE, is that at a research biased university, or, a teaching biased university?
Gromit's points about Phd + postdoc + published research + sleep deprivation! are quite correct for the research led universities, but are not necessary for the teaching led universities (like MMU).
Phrased another way, there's a extremely wide gulf between the older universities and the ex-polys.
>>in what's become an extremely competitive field is very difficult, rather badly paid, and quite a bit more stressful than you may think.
Yes, fully agree!
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How about looking for a position on the operating side with Metrolink ? It's local and the whole, expanding system is run by computers.
I expect they use 'troubleshooters ' when the system fails and operational difficulties crop up.
Good luck, anyway, whatever you do.......as long as you keep my little system running !
Ted
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>> ............ in order to become a lecturer in
>> the FE sector.
Don't forget that having the necessary qualifications doesn't guarantee you a job.
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>> Don't forget that having the necessary qualifications doesn't guarantee you a job.
>>
The guy is feeling down already, he is making plans a year ahead, and you have to be negative?
p.s. Rattle needs an outlet to vent his frustrations every few weeks, and he does that by posting some thoughts about his future plans here. Most end up binned after the negative feedback that is generated.
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I'm probably not alone in sensing Rattle is rather risk averse. But a positive about his situation is that he has a skill and a business that he can turn the wick up and down on if he has to.
If it takes him a while to get to where he wants, i.e. a teaching job, he can keep himself afloat with some PC work. Neither AFAIK does he have a mortgage or dependants to worry about, so now is possibly his best opportunity.
Rattle, if you're really not happy the answer is to do something about it, which you seem to want to do. Now's the time, and that's why I said "do it".
(Other sources of advice are available!)
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You are a bright lad Rattle well educated.Anytime up this way you are always welcome for a natter.Do something what makes you happy.
Know thyself.
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>> The guy is feeling down already, he is making plans a year ahead, and you
>> have to be negative?
It's very easy to embark on several years of study on the assumption that it will automatically lead to a job. There are a lot of unemployed graduates that made that mistake. I thought that Rattle should be aware of that. tinyurl.com/6ud96m8
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>> It's very easy to embark on several years of study on the assumption that it
>> will automatically lead to a job. There are a lot of unemployed graduates that made
>> that mistake. I thought that Rattle should be aware of that. tinyurl.com/6ud96m8
>>
You do know that Rattle is a graduate, and he has already experienced that his IT degree did not lead to a job, don't you?.
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Jou>> >> It's very easy to embark on several years of study on the assumption that
>> it
>> >> will automatically lead to a job. There are a lot of unemployed graduates that
>> made
>> >> that mistake. I thought that Rattle should be aware of that. tinyurl.com/6ud96m8
>> >>
>>
>> You do know that Rattle is a graduate, and he has already experienced that his
>> IT degree did not lead to a job, don't you?.
>>
>>
>>
John and I am a lot older and wiser now, wise enough to know the reasons why I couldn't get a job back in 2005.
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To take a quote from that Guardian article
"Nevertheless, employment among recent graduates remains much higher than among non-graduates. The employment rate of people graduating in the last six years is 85.5%, compared to 73.3% for non-graduates."
SO yes while it is risky, it is surely a loss less risky than sitting here doing nothing.
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Rattle,
At your age you need a steady job and a stable income now, not in three years time or however long it takes to complete the proposed course. Practically every company or organisation in the country that employs more than about a dozen people has an IT person/department, so why not use your current qualifications in that direction? The chances of you getting a job working in an IT department will far exceed the chances of you getting a lecturer's job. In any case, given your admitted state of mind will you be capable of standing up in front of a group of people and giving them lectures? When I was made redundant I wrote (and that was by hand!) to ten companies every single day offering my services and I kept it up until I found a suitable job. It's a procedure I would recommend to anyone. It's no use just applying to advertised vacancies because there is always too much competition. Of course, you'd have to be prepared to cut the apron strings and move to a different part of the country but that's no more than I would expect from someone of your age.
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Opportunities for lecturing in some form of FE is going to be hard to get in the foreseeable future.
If I were you I would go IT contracting, set yourself up with a few of the IT body shopping agencies. You even get to meet lots of girls.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 14 Sep 12 at 15:13
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My hearts not really in contracting etc. However if I get this qualification I may be able to get into commercial training etc which is better paid. My limits are not restricted to local government.
The only way I can really make money contracting at the moment is by doing something very specialised, people like me are ten a penny and I have no stand out skills.
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My heart's not in IT either. But I'm afraid, that's the condition most of us spend our working lives in. Frankly, it doesn't matter a scrap so long as it finances the main event of my life, i.e. that which I have outside of work.
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>> My heart's not in IT either. But I'm afraid, that's the condition most of us
>> spend our working lives in. Frankly, it doesn't matter a scrap so long as it
>> finances the main event of my life, i.e. that which I have outside of work.
>>
Exactly. You're there for 37 hours out of a 168 hour week. It's nice if you enjoy your job but, provided that you're conscientious, it's not essential that you enjoy it.
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>> ............. people like me are ten a penny .............
Stop running yourself down. Start writing to suitable employers and offer your services. When your application letter is passed around a company there's a chance that a departmental head will see it and say "That's just the sort of person we need to do such and such a job." and they'll create a vacancy which hitherto hadn't been advertised. You need to be proactive. Until you write to them, potential employers don't even know you exist, let alone that you'd like to work for them.
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>> ............. people like me are ten a penny .............
You could well be wrong there Sheikha. You are often teased here for appearing naive and lacking confidence but people can see that you are honest. And honest people aren't ten a penny at all, alas.
You've got saleable skills, are conscientious and are apparently inoffensive and agreeable in demeanour. That might make Zero's suggestion of contracting viable to earn cash while you are exploring the academic options. I agree with those who warn against a certain sort of academic time-serving, but there's no harm in looking into it as a long-term development. One is never too old to learn and you can in fact teach an old dog new tricks.
There aren't any shrewd practical girls in your circle angling to take up with you? You could do with a manager seems to me. A lot of us could.
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There are tons of IT jobs here in the South East, contract and permie. Many of the people around me as I type are contractors from the Norf and get digs here in the week (cheap shared accommodation) and go home on Thursday/early Friday. The bloke opposite me is just packing up and heading for Cheshire. He'll be in the pub with his dog in a few hours. A decent car helps with this, and you've got one already.
This is the ideal time in your life to do something like that, you have no ties, no commitments.
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Go for it Rattle, the IT world out there is what you make of it. As others have said, even if your heart is not in it it pays the bills as effectively as most other things, you would be offering an employer attributes few other can offer in terms of independence, real practical experience and initiative. For many that is worth a lot.
As far as the training qualification goes you may find it hard to get that first job but you need to have the belief in yourself that you can stand out from the crowd and go for it.
You have no ties or commitments to limit you at the moment go for it and all the best.
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Dont take this the wrong way Rattle, but I cannot help but think that having seen a fair few threads like this over the years from you, the problem may not be career, but something within you which is leading to dissatisfaction.
I have a sneaking suspicion that a career change would only be a temporary fix to distract from the real difficulty you may be having. If depression really is an issue, it will cloud your perspective no end and id not be making changes until I was sure it was dealt with.
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Zero is right about contracting. Even at the lower end of jobs they earn lots, many are needed. Likely to be down south but you'd be surprised what you could use your skills for.
If the teaching idea has good prospects I can see that working for you. How long does a PGCE or whatever qualification take to get? Twelve months? Can't be three years as you have a degree.
But FoR is also right to say there may be other underlying issues that need dealing with and you need to be sure this is the right change.
If I didn't think it below you in terms of ability (and the other issue of you driving) I'd have pointed you in the direction of some engineering type jobs. Would lead onto higher level stuff for sure. But to begin with below you with your knowledge/education and you'd have to do a lot of driving.
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Maybe we are all on the wrong track here.A silly question Rattle what is your birth sign just out of interest.Something is stopping you from being happy.Live is to short Rattle to be down in the dumps for to long.I have to agree with FoR on this one just a gut feeling.
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The PGCE may be for teaching children. There may still be the postgraduate/post experience Certificate in Education which is for FE/HE. Mine was a trivial affair and created no impression whatsoever when it came to looking for a teaching job. As I was now aged 42, I was pretty miffed at having lost a year's income doing it.
FE then meant post-A-level but sub degree, typically the Higher National Diploma courses plus some trade courses. I started in FE but my tech taught some HE and I was absorbed into the section that became an Institute of Higher Education, then a Polytechnic, now a University. There is probably quite a demand for IT teachers in both sectors: check out the Times Higher Education Supplement and the Guardian for job adverts.
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>> I have a sneaking suspicion that a career change would only be a temporary fix
>> to distract from the real difficulty you may be having. If depression really is an
>> issue, it will cloud your perspective no end and id not be making changes until
>> I was sure it was dealt with.
>>
Stu - I think you may be on the right lines here, but as I said earlier, perhaps becoming an employee within an organisation may mean that Rattle gains some more company during the day and expands his personal and social horizons. I don't dislike my job, but am lucky enough to work with a really good bunch who I think make my days much better than they otherwise could be.
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In truth, being self-employed should not mean you become isolated from society, quite the opposite.
I am essentially a loner and happy enough that way, but the number of people I see on a regular basis, have a natter with etc is huge. Obviously if you base yourself in a field somewhere you wont meet people so much, but on the whole ive found it pretty difficult not to become well known locally and have a very wide group of people in my daily life.
Taking his business to local small firms rather than individuals would also open up a pool of people. I do work for a local business and I can easily spend 20 mins chatting to the very lovely reception girls there - its a hard life but someone has to I suppose :-p
If of course you change to a fixed work place, you very much have to hope that you like the people you work with and going from self-employment to employed does mean having a boss again, which can be a new source of stress in your life.
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The course I am thinking of doing is either DTLLS Level 6 (Diploma in Teaching in the Life Long Learning Sector) or a PGDE (Post Graduate Diploma in Education) both are different titles for the same thing and both lead to QTS.
You spent two days a week teaching in a college etc.
Yes there may be underlining issues but I am sure it is all related to the feeling under achieving I will certainly look into this contracting idea a bit more though the problem is most my skills are at the peer to peer networking level it has been a long time since I have used Active Directory, and that might be a problem.
An income boost like that would certainly make me feel happier about my income within the next year.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Fri 14 Sep 12 at 19:57
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>>Yes there may be underlining issues but I am sure it is all related to the feeling under achieving <<
Im sure 99% of people who suffer depression try and rationalise it, setting a goal that they think will 'fix' it. It doesnt work that way sadly. I understand the reasoning, but depression is not logical.
Try to serialise the last decade of your life, see if you see a pattern. I suspect you will. Ive no doubt there will be a fair few 'new starts'.
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>> Im sure 99% of people who suffer depression try and rationalise it, ............
Clinical depression is an illness and needs to be treated by a doctor.
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>Clinical depression is an illness and needs to be treated by a doctor<
I wouldn't disagree with that but - first find your reliable and knowledgeable doctor rather than a pill dispenser.
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"Clinical depression is an illness and needs to be treated..."
I agree with that.
"...by a doctor."
Not necessarily.
Permit me to be personal for a moment, partly because I believe issues like mental illness should be brought into the open.
I am in my sixties and have a history of depression; I have had three serious crises in my life - the latest was by far the worst, lasting for several years and reaching a climax at the beginning of 2011. I consulted my GP on numerous occasions. I was prescribed various anti-depressants, none of which suited me because of their side-effects. I tried counselling and found the first session awful. I tried CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) and found it dealt only with superficial issues as far as I was concerned.
Finally I found another counsellor whom I could work with and have just finished 16 months of weekly sessions (with some gaps for holidays etc.) at £40 a session. To me, that's expensive, but it has finally nailed a whole raft of issues and I feel I have got my life back. I am to be married again, I am starting at university next week and things are far better for me than they have been for longer than I can remember.
My thoughts are that depression is a serious, life-limiting issue and it needs to be dealt with. A GP is the first port of call. Medication, CBT and counselling all have their place, but remember that in each of these three "treatments" there is a range of options: not all medication is the same and a good GP will offer and advise regarding the alternatives. CBT comes in many forms, too - face-to-face with a person or via a self-help website, for example. Counselling is available in many different styles - in my case it was "psycho-dynamic" and I think it worked for me because it was completely tailored to my issues and no pre-determined process was applied.
My only regret is that I did not undergo this process years ago - but you could argue that it worked for me when it did only because of where I was at that particular point in my life. I just wish that I could have avoided some of the unhappiness of my past - and there have been some very dark times indeed.
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Read the book "Feeling good, the new mood therapy" By Dr Burns. It's full of CBT exercises and is designed to squash the negative attitudes that underlie most depression. It's just as effective as any of the commonly used anti depressents.
I actually think you should stop being so sensible. Jack it in and go travelling instead.
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>> CBT exercises
And Rattle in this context CBT = Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, not Computer Based Training.
I'd second going travelling for a bit. But I know you don't like flying.
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I am very familiar with CBT and depression. I have been through it all with my ex (she suffered badly with depression) but she is slowly getting her life back on track. She is one of those geniuses though who sadly despite having a first class degree, a distinction in her masters and is on her way to doing a doctorate I doubt she will able to to hold down a full time job as her illness constantly gets herself into trouble at work.
Since making this thread I have made progress with applying to universities and I still have several options. When I made this thread I had a particularly bad week work wise, since then I have become ill with some sort of virus and spent most the weekend, Monday and Tuesday in bed. On the mend now just got a nasty head ache and a bad cough.
I probably do need a good holiday and have looked into going away travelling though Europe for about 8-10 days in early October, I have not had a proper holiday since 2007 and even then I was constantly phoning home to deal with any calls from customers. I am not really sure I can justify the expense though.
One thing that does motivate me though is walking down the roads near where my office is, seeing how bleak it is (hoodies on bikes, ugly houses, general decay and a lack of a community feeling) is knowing I have to get a decently paid job otherwise 1 bedroom bedsit in Longsight is where I will end up.
I am not sure I am clinically depressed, I think it is mostly just due to circumstances, or is it the depression causing the bleak circumstances?
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>>I am not sure I am clinically depressed, I think it is mostly just due to circumstances, or is it the depression causing the bleak circumstances?<<
Without qualifications, you would have no idea what/how much depression you were suffering with. The hardest bit is accepting you need help and you cannot solve it by yourself.
It can make the most beautiful sunset seem like the end of the world, it screws with your perception on things.
As Im sure you recall, I have had bouts of depression over the years. While I am very aware of when it its looming, it still affects me despite my desire for it to go away.
For me, ive found the most helpful thing on a personal level was facing the things which happened in my past as it does seem that past trauma can linger on beneath the surface.
I found understanding the psychological mechanics of how a childhood trauma can progress through to adulthood and how it would manifest in my daily life extremely reassuring because its not some scary monster hiding in the cupboard so to speak, but an entirely rational reaction to circumstances.
That may sound odd, but understanding is for me a route to control, a positive feeling that I am not a prisoner of my past.
The thing with depression is, its unique to the individual, so while you can get pointers from the experience of others, it would be unwise to look to any one persons experience for a solution.
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There aren't many people who wouldn't benefit from a few sessions with the right shrink, but the right shrink can be hard to find, and the wrong one can be worse than useless. But it's my impression - from a long way off so not worth much - that the Sheikh doesn't need a shrink urgently.
I've given up urging him to plunge into a motorised continental adventure, but I do think something like that would perhaps be beneficial. Some real road, and contact with cultural strangeness (a succession of pleasant surprises with a few less pleasant ones thrown in), would surely boost the confidence the Sheikh himself doubts so much, while providing a host of new strong references. Coming back home broke is part of the process, and not a thing to worry about in advance. Anyway that has always been my irresponsible creed.
Don't be offended Rattolo when people talk about you like this. They mean well. It's just speculative advice and you don't have to take it.
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My daughter has an ex schoolmate, friends on Facebook now, who has opted out.
He wanders about southern Spain & Portugal and as he goes by the name of Lazy Beggar, you may imagine how he gets by!
He seems happy!
Last edited by: Roger on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 16:20
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>> He wanders about southern Spain & Portugal and as he goes by the name of
>> Lazy Beggar, you may imagine how he gets by!
What does he do for money?
Or is the word 'beggar' a clue?
Last edited by: Duncan on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 16:22
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My sister sold up and went backpacking in Australia - within a year she was pregnant, married and very happy, still is. There is alot to be said for throwing off the shackles and getting out into the world, works for some people, esp those single with no big ties.
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I did the same in 92, sold my house in Hastings, found a buyer for my van/Crypton/tools/good (bad)will.
Then sodded orf to Tenerife for 3 months.
Things have been on the up ever since (thanks to Viagra)
:}
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I haven't contributed to this thread because my views on this sound very harsh but aren't meant to be.
I hope Rattle will see they are posted in the way they are intended to be meant...I'm sure he will.
I really don't think the answer is to go back to Uni, and I think that decision has been taken because it's more a yearning for the memories of good times and company of fellow student.
Memories are funny things and have a nasty habit of forgetting the bad times.
Uni would be different now, a different set of people, the vast majority a lot younger with different outlooks, and with it the risk of feeling even more alone.
I think Ian feels his responsibilities to his parents strongly but knows they are holding him back and they are an excuse never to leave and entirely cut the apron strings.
I did that too....
My Father died when I was 11 yrs old and my Mother made huge sacrifices to send me to grammar school as I'd just passed the 11plus when he died. I left when I was 15 to try and contribute to the income, aware of her failing health and the struggle she'd had. My Dad had been ill for five years before he died and unable to work so my Mother nursed him and worked to look after us both.
I knew that if I ever got married it would always have to be to someone who would accept that she lived with us as I felt a duty towards her (as Rattle does).
When she died, I'm ashamed to say I felt a sense of freedom at 32 years old. I followed a radical career change and became a lorry driver, my marriage failed and I was a different person from then on...I could be me.
Ian, I know how shy you are but I also know when we stood and talked by our pond the night after the training day at Brett's as you were going home, and there wasn't anyone else around you became a different person.
You hadn't said two words all night in a crowd, but when it was the just you and I, talking about cats you suddenly became alive, different and a lovely person.
Advice: Don't chase the past happiness...it will have moved on while you have stood still.
Get away from home while your Mum & Dad have each other, you owe it to yourself to do this.
Ask yourself what you want to do if you had no responsibilities and be very honest with the reply.
Forget your responsibilities and go out and do it.
It won't be easy but you will be happy, you won't be lonely and you will respect yourself for making the decision.
Life is too short for regrets and you're not getting any younger;)
.....meant with the best of intentions!
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 18:23
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I've never met Rattle and Pat has. Her views should be listened to.
Maybe going back from training certificate and then teaching is the right thing. But maybe it isn't. Only Rattle knows. If Rattle is the age I think he is (29-30?) then he certainly needs to consider moving out at last. I had my new family (step children) and a mortgage by then. And I did 6 years including post grad at uni.
I know someone who I used to work with that through losing his wife decided to pursue something he always had a passion for - he loved maths and did a maths degree. So he decided to leave a job paying probably over £60k pa and train to be a maths teacher. I hope he made a success of it and is still enjoying it.
Regardless of what Rattle does - life is too short to not enjoy it. Too many things can cut it short. If life choices make you depressed then time to change things. Not saying Rattle is depressed.
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>>If life choices make you depressed then time to
>> change things. Not saying Rattle is depressed.
>>
Read the first sentence in his first post.
I think Rattle needs professional help of one sort or another, rather than the amateur advice being dished out here - including, this, my amateur contribution.
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>>I have been suffering from depression a bit lately
From my limited and unqualified experience;
I don't think you can suffer from depression "a bit".
I don't think you can know whether or not you are suffering from depression at all.
Depression is a different uinverse to merely sad or hacked off.
You might need help, you might need to get off your sorry butt, and nobody on a forum is qualified to know which of those two or any other situation in between, is appropriate.
I have done jobs from the most tedious, lowest of the low, to some pretty impressive stuff. I have been well paid and poorly paid. Not one of them has ever depressed me, not one of them has ever made my life worthwhile. Some made me happy, some made me sad. That is not the same thing as making me "depressed".
Further, its not neccessarily bad things that make you "depressed". The most ridiculous things, maybe not even "bad" to anyone else, can make you "depressed".
So, if you really mean "depression" - go and get help, and go and get it now. You need help, you deserve help. Help is available. All you have to do is look for it and accept it when you find it.
If you mean you're a bit pee'd off, then get over yourself, get on with life and stop whinging. Make the changes you want to make, live with the stuff you don't want to change.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 19:05
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>> >>I am not sure I am clinically depressed, I think it is mostly just due
>> to circumstances, or is it the depression causing the bleak circumstances?<<
This thread is making me depressed....
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>This thread is making me depressed....
Here, have another G&T you'll soon feel better.
Fancy a Marlboro'?
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Rats, have a look at this site:
www.moodjuice.scot.nhs.uk/
and have a look at this 'screening tool':
www.phqscreeners.com/pdfs/02_PHQ-9/English.pdf
It's a blunt instrument but if you are ticking lots of 2s and 3s (or anything other than 0 for question 9), you need to see a GP.
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A few 2's and 3's but it is probably all down to not feeling I am making the most of things, rather than depressed as such. The university course I was thinking of doing is professional post graduate one, and as such will have a lot of older people and it is only for a year. The main motivation is to try and get a better job in something I should feel more worth while.
My hearing is not always that good, so sometimes it can appear like I am being quite or miserable, when it is simply because I can't hear all the bits of the conversation and don't want to make a fool of myself by joining and and saying something stupid because I have got the wrong end of the stick of the conversation. Sometimes even in the pub with my mates I am very quiet simply because I cannot hear what is going on.
I also think I am a bit more confident now than I was back then too. I can be shy but it just sometimes takes a while to get me out of my shell.
Also I do suffer from anxiety and was treated earlier this year for it (drugs) but I found the side effects were worse than the symptoms.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 21:03
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Used to wear them but that is apart of a bad part of my life I would rather forget about! I went as far as not telling my old university I had hearing problems as I didn't want to be treated differently, and was so much happier for it.
Maybe when I get older I can start wearing them again but you can imagine being at school wearing hearing aids it instantly made me stand out.
My hearing is not that bad, I have high frequency hearing loss which means I cannot hear past 16,000Hz.
Just done this test, and even with my volume on my amp on at 11 I cannot hear past 14Khz.
www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/ but then that is probably normal at my age (30).
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 21:11
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Rats, few people over the age of 30 can hear past 16khz. Mine is down to 12khz.
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Zero added more since you made that post, I realised as I posted it, and that my hearing is probably about normal now anyway. In adulthood the higher frequencies don't matter, but in a school environment when learning the higher frequencies are very important.
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>> Zero added more since you made that post, I realised as I posted it, and
>> that my hearing is probably about normal now anyway. In adulthood the higher frequencies don't
>> matter, but in a school environment when learning the higher frequencies are very important.
The upside is you dont have to spend a fortune on speaker wire. Bell wire is fine.
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>>
The upside is you dont have to spend a fortune on speaker wire. Bell wire is fine.
The other cool thing is you don't have to worry about the extra storage requirements of lossless ripping. MP3 was designed with you in mind!
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>> The other cool thing is you don't have to worry about the extra storage requirements
>> of lossless ripping. MP3 was designed with you in mind!
Oh dear, tea spluttered everywhere.
If you're half deaf you should only go clubbing with earplugs in. If you're not deaf the same applies...
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>>Mine is down to 12khz.
That explains it. Wondered how you managed to put up with the sound of that engine. Figures now why you old people don't mind weedy little Jap lumps.
:-)
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>> >>Mine is down to 12khz.
>>
>> That explains it. Wondered how you managed to put up with the sound of that
>> engine.
Bad eyesight too, cant see a P11D tax bill either.
> smiles sweetly <
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My mid range and lower range hearing is perfect, I can still tell a big difference between 128kbps and lossless MP3.
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>> Just done this test, and even with my volume on my amp on at 11
>> I cannot hear past 14Khz.
>>
>> www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/ but then that is probably normal at my age (30).
>>
What sound do you hear? I was getting a series of bleeps, is that right?
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Should be a very high pitch noise. It is perfectly normal to be able to hear it, also if you turn the amp up too high you may start to hear other distorted sounds from the sound card. The proper equipment they use is very precise and uses a lot of circuits with a very low SNR. A typical PC isn't really up to the job.
I might try and write something a better better than this if I have time, I have a lot of web space I need to make use of.
Also most cheap speakers and headphones won't go past 20Khz anyway.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 20 Sep 12 at 23:32
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>> Also most cheap speakers and headphones won't go past 20Khz anyway.
And why not, most humans cant hear past 18khz. Even some really expensive speakers only go to 20khz, advertising higher than that is just sales bullsheet.
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"What sound do you hear? "
Like an increasingly higher pitched mosquito
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>> www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/
I tried it with the sound coming out of my computer's speakers and all the frequencies sounded the same, except for the volume decreasing as the frequency increased.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 21 Sep 12 at 09:07
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>> >> www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/
>>
>> I tried it with the sound coming out of my computer's speakers and all the
>> frequencies sounded the same, except for the volume decreasing as the frequency increased.
Clearly then, they didn't sound the same.
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All the best with the new career path. You'll meet all kinds of new friends and form your self a new niche hopefully.
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I heard a whistle on the 8, but after that all the others were just a click on pressing play until about 16, then not even the click.
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Making a life changing decision - tyro
