This coming week our councillors will decide if they are going to charge for parking at rail stations and park and ride facilities. If it is approved it will go out to consultation.
Odd that they have started the groundwork to install the pay and display machines.
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Standard council procedure.
Its about time these authorities remembered that they are the PUBLIC'S servants, and as such should listen to what the majority of the public ask for.
rant over - for now....
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Or to look at it another way:
Car parks cost money to operate and maintain. Should the taxpayer subsidise them or the library?
Elected councillors decide the libraries are a priority & make a decision in principle to charge on car parks. They then consult on implementation e.g. issues such as amount and pattern of charge, operating hours, exemptions etc.
If they've made wrong choices you vote 'em out at next election.
Democracy in action.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 8 Sep 12 at 09:54
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Isn't park and ride normally a couple of quid per bod anyway? Given it's generally a mile or two I imagined the fare covered the parking too.
If the idea is to get people to leave cars outside the city, then ripping people off for parking is a poor idea. And if people can't park in the town either, then they will just go to a town where they are welcomed, or an out of town centre, or not bother, or shop on the internet...and the town centre dies.
Do they not realise they are screwing their own business rate payers by discouraging shoppers? Some of the best little towns around are the ones with free parking, and no surprise.
Generally I refuse to pay for parking if I can, on principle; it's the only way to vote effectively. Paying up is a vote in favour when you think about it. Went to Buxton a couple of weeks ago - had no trouble parking out of town and walked 800 yds to spend the day there. Some of the fatties coughing up four or five quid could usefully have done the same.
The boss made me go to Gloucester Quays the other day and we had to pay £2 for the privilege of going there to spend money - no indication of charges that I could see until you are at the barrier with a queue behind. Couldn't even get the parking charges knocked off the £300 we spent which might have had a certain logic to it.
Similarly I can't square charging £6 to park at a station with getting people out of cars and on to public transport. I resent it extremely given the level of rail fares which I am racking up at an alarming rate in my search for gainful employment.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 8 Sep 12 at 11:27
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>> of cars and on to public transport. I resent it extremely given the level of
>> rail fares which I am racking up at an alarming rate in my search for
>> gainful employment.
If you are going on a self employed contractors basis to find work, you can put that down as a business expense and offset against tax.
At least being unemployed you get the delights of shopping with the boss.
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>>If you are going on a self employed contractors basis to find work, you can put that down as a business expense and offset against tax.
Thanks for the reminder. I'm saving the receipts.
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>>The boss made me go to Gloucester Quays
I've suffered the same, but what really annoyed me was she wouldn't let me haggle for something she wanted, she said it's embarrassing, and she watches these auction TV programs.
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>> If they've made wrong choices you vote 'em out at next election.
>>
>> Democracy in action.
>>
But we all know, what they promise before an election, and what they deliver are poles apart.
IMHO their is no such thing as democracy. only the (empty) promise of it.....
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>> But we all know, what they promise before an election, and what they deliver are
>> poles apart.
Really?
1) Most politicians, when elected, actually DO follow the policies that they say that they will follow.
The policies do not, of course, always bring the results that the politicians predicted. In fact, they rarely do. This forces politicians to either continue to follow policies that are not working as intended, or to change their policies. If they do the former, they are condemned for not getting the results they promised. If they do the latter, they are condemned for not following the policies that they promised.
2) Politicians who tell the truth to the voters will not get elected, because most voters tend to vote for the politicians who make the grandest sounding promises.
3) Some politicians make promises so stupid, that if voters vote for them and expect these promises to be kept (think France), they have nobody to blame but themselves.
And finally . . . Tyro's first law of politics:
The electorate always get the politicians they deserve.
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>> But we all know, ...............
What's with the we paleface? Me Tonto, me just hold horse!
;-)
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I'd be perfectly willing to pay to park if we had a railway station and park and ride facility at which to park.
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Perhaps its time to move nearer some facilities.
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when you get older you loose your faculties.
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Then after they come loose you lose them.
I know you do it on purpose.
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One of the rail stations has a free hospital carpark about two minutes walk away, I wonder how long that will remain free?
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Altrincham in Cheshire is a good example of a dying town. Until a few years ago it had lots going for it but the swingeing parkimg restrictions have driven shoppers away. Some of the big shops have pulled out and a half-hearted attempt to improve the main, pedestrianised, street has not gone down well with people. Even the buskers have gone elsewhere !
Only last week, in the evening paper, a man had written in to say he had come back to his car on a council pay and display car park to find a fixed penalty on the screen........neatly stuck next to his valid P&D ticket.
Why risk it when the Trafford Centre is only a 15 minute drive away ?
Ted
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>> One of the rail stations has a free hospital carpark about two minutes walk away,
>> I wonder how long that will remain free?
>>
What remains of our hospital charges for parking, in fact all the' local' ones do..
The thing is, in Wycombe theres a college university next door.
the hospital carpark is always full of student cars - hospital visitors often have to use the shopping centre carpark (which is the other side of the uni...)
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I guess you can make the argument that why should people expect to be able to leave a ton or so of iron on someone's property for an indefinite period and not pay for the privilege.
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>> I guess you can make the argument that why should people expect to be able
>> to leave a ton or so of iron on someone's property for an indefinite period
>> and not pay for the privilege.
If its a hospital - Its our property.
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Ultimately perhaps but hospitals aren't there to provide free parking facilities. That's not what I want them to be doing with my tax. If you travel to the hospital by taxi they don't give you the fare back. Hospitals provide car parks because that's the way most people want to visit them. It seems reasonable to levy a charge for the service.
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>> Ultimately perhaps but hospitals aren't there to provide free parking facilities. That's not what I
>> want them to be doing with my tax. If you travel to the hospital by
>> taxi they don't give you the fare back. Hospitals provide car parks because that's the
>> way most people want to visit them. It seems reasonable to levy a charge for
>> the service.
Then I will use the hospital taxi service, its called the ambulance. Is that how you want your tax dollars spent?
And its not that facetious as it sounds, many people are taken to hospital in a relatives or kins car who would otherwise be forced to use an ambulance or otherwise utilise the tax payers paid for hospital transport services.
On that basis, a car park is a money saver.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 8 Sep 12 at 15:24
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Most people attending hospital are not emergencies.
If you need to go to hospital you are unlikely to be put off by the prospect of paying a few pounds for the car park any more than you would be put off by paying the taxi or bus fare.
Most of the car parking is in fact taken up by visitors rather than patients in any case.
The fact remains do you want to spend taxpayers money on car parking or on hospital care? If you thing parking should be subsidised explain why should people who do not use the facility should subsidise it.
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>>
>> Most people attending hospital are not emergencies.
A significant proportion have mobility problems* that are not served by the traditional public transport services.
*Hospitals attract them, no idea why ;p
>>
>> If you need to go to hospital you are unlikely to be put off by
>> the prospect of paying a few pounds for the car park any more than you
>> would be put off by paying the taxi or bus fare.
Its not a matter of being put off, one rarely has a choice about deciding to attend a hospital, its not a leisure pursuit that can be dropped due to cost.
>> Most of the car parking is in fact taken up by visitors rather than patients
>> in any case.
See my paragraph above.
>> The fact remains do you want to spend taxpayers money on car parking or
>> on hospital care?
And how much does it cost to run a car park in a hospital? peanuts, mere peanuts.
>> explain why should people who do not use the facility should subsidise it.
At some time or other, we will all use it.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 8 Sep 12 at 15:44
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"A significant proportion have mobility problems* that are not served by the traditional public transport services. "
So they go by car and pay for the parking. Hospitals have obviously got to provide car parking , just not free car parking
"Its not a matter of being put off, one rarely has a choice about deciding to attend a hospital, its not a leisure pursuit that can be dropped due to cost. "
I didn't say it was. Merely that the cost of parking a car is unlikely to deter you from attending hospital.
"And how much does it cost to run a car park in a hospital? peanuts, mere peanuts. "
However much it cost should be reflected in the car parking fees. My local hospital has car parking for 850 cars and has just bought enough land for another 500. That would not come cheap.
"At some time or other, we will all use it. "
Those who don't own a car won't
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'Those who don't own a car won't '
Pay as you go, I think that's the problem, people see Hospitals as free at point of use and most things connected to it. Hence why no-one wants to pay for parking or at least has a problem with hospitals charging for parking.
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>> However much it cost should be reflected in the car parking fees. My local hospital
>> has car parking for 850 cars and has just bought enough land for another 500.
>> That would not come cheap.
It was a commercial design, based on profit and loss. Now your argument will be that this will subsidise the cost of patient care, my argument will be that a hospital is not in the commercial parking business. By doing so they are fleecing patients, visitors and workers who have no option and poking the money into pension pots of overpaid CEOs of the PCTs
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"Now your argument will be that this will subsidise the cost of patient care, my argument will be that a hospital is not in the commercial parking business. By doing so they are fleecing patients, visitors and workers who have no option and poking the money into pension pots of overpaid CEOs of the PCTs"
So what do you think they should do. Not accede to the huge public demand for more car parking spaces and leave the roads cluttered with illegally parked vehicles? Buy the land and let people park free?
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>>Buy the land and let people park free?
Its not free, its part of the tax we pay for a healthcare SERVICE.
Simple isn't it. Reduce the NHS budget by £n. Hospital has choices;
1) become more efficient,
2) reduce the service,
3) find a way to claw the money back.
1) is impossible for the NHS MGmt given the total lack of support they would have from the general public when the unions started whining - you know, its unfair to nurses if you don't give thousands of cleaners and administrators a raise - that sort of thing.
2) Gets a bit of flack, but as long as your careful people will just whinge.
3) - now you're talking....
The UK has the NHS system it deserves. Perhaps not the one it wants.
The only industry designed and run for the convenience of its employees, not its customers - as somebody said here a year or two ago.
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>> Those who don't own a car won't
as I pointed out above, those who don't usually cant get there by public transport, and are given a lift by those who do..
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"as I pointed out above, those who don't usually cant get there by public transport, and are given a lift by those who do."
Just not true. Loads of people don't have access to a car and manage all their life with with public transport.
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>>Loads of people don't have access to a car and manage all their life with with public transport.
Absolutely. And you should take your aging mother with a broken hip on the bus like everybody else does.
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> Just not true. Loads of people don't have access to a car and manage all their life with with public transport.
As i keep telling you, a trip to hospital is not your average trip to Tesco to get your shopping. Its nearly 100% an enforced visit under difficult circumstances. Its not the choice you are trying to suggest.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 8 Sep 12 at 16:42
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"As i keep telling you, a trip to hospital is not your average trip to Tesco to get your shopping. Its nearly 100% an enforced visit under difficult circumstances. Its not the choice you are trying to suggest."
I don't think I ever suggested a trip to the hospital was a matter of choice.
I merely put the view that subsidising those who travel there by car and not those who travel by public transport is inequitable.
Nevertheless you have persuaded me by the eloquence of your logic. I now believe all hospitals should provide unlimited free parking for all at all times. Good luck trying to get a space though. ;-)
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>> Nevertheless you have persuaded me by the eloquence of your logic. I now believe all
>> hospitals should provide unlimited free parking for all at all times. Good luck trying to
>> get a space though. ;-)
I always make sure my family have early morning accidents, the waiting times at A&E are shorter as well, cant beat proper planning.
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>>he fact remains do you want to spend taxpayers money on car parking or on hospital care? If you thing parking should be subsidised explain why should people who do not use the facility should subsidise it.
I think it's fairly well understood that it's a 'profit' stream for hospitals.
It's also often a real problem for staff who are often not well paid and have no parking provision. They perforce clog up the surrounding residential streets.
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"I think it's fairly well understood that it's a 'profit' stream for hospitals."
I'm sure it is in some cases. My view is that the charge should reflect the cost of parking and its administration and if necessary be a deterrent to those who use hospital car parks as a cheap parking option.
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>>I didn't say it was. Merely that the cost of parking a car is unlikely to deter you from attending hospital.
It can't really deter you, can it. You usually haven't got a choice. However, it can be bad.
About 3 years ago one of my children needed hospital urgently. The medic concerned said that the fastest way to get her there was in my car rather than wait for an ambulance to come out of town and then go back in again.
So i duly took her to hospital at some speed. Dumped the car, and rushed in. I was able to drive the car about 4 days letter - the bill form the car park was huge! Now I could afford it, but had it been my sister, it would have been a show stopper, but she wouldn't have had a choice
That can't be right.
Providing car parking is in the same category as providing other infrastructure and support services. It is all part of the quality healthcare service that we pretend to have.
You shouldn't then be working out which bits you can claw back some money from, you're just hiding the true cost.
Otherwise how long before we're charging visitors admission?
If the country doesn't want a health service, then it shouldn't have one. But don't say that you've got one and then start charging for increasing bits of it.
And there is not one person here who runs companies that couldn't take 20% out of hospital costs within 12 months simply by running it properly. More than enough for free parking.
.
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'And there is not one person here who runs companies that couldn't take 20% out of hospital costs within 12 months simply by running it properly. More than enough for free parking.'
That's a fair ol' chunk of money, now I've not run my own company but that's a bit on the high side to me. For various reasons.
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>> That's a fair ol' chunk of money, now I've not run my own company but
>> that's a bit on the high side to me. For various reasons.
For a well run company it would take some doing. For a badly run company its doable
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Right for a company I'm sure that's the case, I meant the NHS which isn't really a company.
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No, it isn't strictly a company. However, it has a determined sum of money with which to strive to achieve a target level of service.
However, when running a company you can only be successful with the appropriate authority and backing.
That would be the problem.
The electorate of the UK would like everything, will pay for nothing, and decide everything emotionally.
So,, we want a lower NHS budget, we want free car parks, we want nurses to be paid more, we want nobody to go on strike, we will not contribute more, we will not compromise our own experience, we want more staff, we want less managers, we want more management etc. etc. etc.
No different to we want more houses, but not here. More police, but we won't pay for it. and so on.
Come the day the electorate can not only work out what they do want, but then are prepared to stand by it, then maybe it can be improved.
Until then, the electorate not only has the NHS nd other services it deserves, it also has them at the limit of its ability to understand.
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>> I think it's fairly well understood that it's a 'profit' stream for hospitals.
The hospital I visit charges £1 for one hour or £2 all day. They're hardly profit making prices.
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Our local hospital charges 60p per hour. There are only about 150 free car park spaces for staff. Result: all the adjacent roads are clogged up with staff cars - and who can blame them? an eight hour shift, say, is £4.80! Times 5 = a LOT per week.
The car park itself always has plenty of vacant spaces at any time of the day!
IIRC, our local NHS trust spent around £500,000 refurbishing a perfectly adequate existing car-park and are puzzled why their wonderful claw-back scheme is not - well - clawing back!
Last edited by: Roger on Sat 8 Sep 12 at 20:08
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Democracy? - swiss tony
